Hello, My girlfriend has been taking Suboxone for one year and one month. She went from 4mg (for about 10 month) to 2mg every other day during the last weeks. Once she became pregnant I was very worry of the unknown side effects of Suboxone and health problems on the fetus or child. I didn't want to see a baby going through withdrawal. She is afraid and very insecure of dropping off the drug completely. She is "absolutely sure" that she can't make it. Her doctor recommended her methadone but she prefers subutex because she won't have to drive daily to a clinic for methadone. During all these months, every morning I give her her dose before I leave to work. Seven days ago I gave her half of a pill. The only difference is that it is not Suboxone but a vitamin C orange pill (looks like the soboxone pill). I been doing this since and she has been going through some pain and discomfort. Because she is taking the "pill" she thinks that her pains are related with her pregnancy.
I will like you all to share your opinions about what I'm doing. I planned on letting her know sometime in the future, maybe a month or two later. I also plan on letting her doctor know. I can't let him know now because if he does she will not qualify to be in the support program due the fact that this program is only for people using Suboxone.
Please share your comments, good or bad. thanks.
Helping pregnant girlfriend getting off Suboxone/Subutex using deception? Opinions?
- Asked
- 21 Sep 2010 by Niev0000
- Updated
- 5 June 2012
- Topics
- suboxone, subutex, opiate dependence, pregnancy
6 Answers
Not normally what a subs dr. would do, but please start a thread on the forum/discussion board for Robertunderscore325. i would actually trust him more than a dr. concerning subs.
Or go to suboxone webpage and look for the 1 800 number and call them. I can't believe she didn't mention that the texture or taste of the subs had changed. I know that you are probably worried about both of them. Please friend Robert_325 and go to that forum/discussion site on here under community clickable tab. I have never been on the forum or started a thread but recently I found out that is where Robert tends to answer questions. Remember to check your profile here for friending requests. I hope everything is going to be ok. You are in my Prayers.
Soboxone is a very powerful drug please be careful. She could loose the baby.
she should not be taking suboxone if she is pregnant. Its subutex witch is still strong it just doesnt have the neltrexzone(opiate blocker) is what kills the baby
Are you f****ing crazy?? Do you have any idea what subs even do? She could very well lose that baby due to wd's NOT "pregnancy pain" She's under a doctors supervision. Do you have a medical degree? I suggest you call her doctor and let him know IMMEDIATELY what you've been doing with her meds... what if she finds a real sub and takes it? Whatever happens is on your head. Call her doctor NOW!
We had a post on here a while back from a concerned soon to be grandfather that was worried as his pregnant daughter was on methadone and couldn't get off because the doctor said the baby goes thru withdrawal and may die in the womb. I was afraid to say too much as Robert would be the person I would trust over the doctors on subs questions and subs are not methadone, but the patients are usually given the same advice. I don't think any doctor who knew what he was doing would switch her to methadone during the pregnancy from suboxone. You should probably see if you can find a doctor used to treating opiate addicts while they are pregnant. I hope you did find Robert_325 and start a thread. For anyone else considering doing something like this to a pregnant mom, DON"T, this is usually not advised, talk to Robert or the doctor and follow their instructions.
Patti and Htwooh, that's what I meant to say. It just came out the wrong way when I read the question. I usually don't answer so rudely, but there's an unborn life involved. Sorry if I offended anybody...
Chris, I will defend you- somebody needed 2 say that 1rst comm. u said. That was my 1rst thought, but i have no idea what Robert would say about subs and pregnancy. I worry about control issues and open communication here. She said she absolutely couldn't make it w/out subs bcuz she may have cravings and subs stop cravings. and all on subs FEAR withdrawal, I know this as a matter of fact. Let us all Pray 4 all 3 of these beings in this post. Woody or anybody who asks Robert about this, Please let us know what Robert says. I do think Woody was worried about how subs was affecting the baby and if baby would b addicted, but doesn't realize withdrawal is horrible and threw his girlfriend into them. Please consider what is best 4 her in the future.
From what I have found the worries are more about fear of the patient relapsing. As someone put it: the risk of stopping buprenorphine during pregnancy have to do with the risk of relapse to former drugs of choice, and the risk of going through opiate withdrawal during pregnancy which obviously can lead to extreme stress, insomnia, anxiety and physical symptoms such as diarrhea, cramping and even premature contractions."
My girlfriend was taking half a pill every other day. Sometimes more than 48 hours between doses. In other words her dependency was not that acute. Beside during all the year and a month she was swallowing the pill which made the effects of sub weaker and in other words made her less dependent.
She lost a child without trying to withdraw already. this time I'll take my risk. She feels better today than yesterday and we don't want to see a newborn getting morphine during his or hers first days of life. Also remember that she is only 5 weeks pregnant. Thanks for your comment.
All I ask is that you take her to the doctor. Everything that she goes through so does the baby. Pain, stress, withdrawals, addictions, the baby has it too. I apologize for my comment but her health and the baby's is best taken care of by a professional.
Nievooo, the withdrawal from suboxone will not occur until at least 3 to 5 days after the last dose and 4 mgs is actually a pretty high dose to jump off on. I am only saying this so you will know. Most of us on suboxone were told some outright lies about it, like it wasn't addictive at all, you could NOT get addicted and that you could simply stop taking it at any dose and be fine, no withdrawal. The truth is, it is addictive, and the withdrawal will NOT start until at least 3 days from the last dose. It is not recommended that someone stop taking suboxone without tapering down to at least .5 mgs per day and even then they are encouraged to start skipping days, first one day and then 2 days and then 3 days, this is the was to keep from going into withdrawal. I do hope that you contacted Robert_325, I promise you he knows more about suboxone than any doctor who prescribes it.
The doctors take an 8 hour course in order to get the special license to write a prescription for suboxone and they are not taught how or when to taper someone. Believe me, I know, I have been to group for suboxone and none of the 17 people that were on it in group ( and there were at least 4 different doctors for those people) were told ever to taper or get off of it, or how to taper. I am on my second subs doctor, and 2nd subs counselor, not by choice did I change, the first counselor mover 3 times where i could get to her then finally where I couldn't and my first subs dr. moved my 3rd month on it. I asked many times about how to taper and finally the counselor told me how often to taper, but not how many mgs. to taper, she didn't know and she was trained the same way the drs were. I asked finally "how many patients have you gotten to taper or gotten off suboxone?" and neither counselor or the doctor had gotten anyone to taper or get off. Please friend Robert and go on the forum and ask about this and at least set your mind at ease. I am willing to believe that you were completely frought with worry over this and really did what you in your heart of hearts thought was the best thing. I am betting your girlfriend is in MAJOR withdrawal by now. Is she complaining about major pain, is she fatigued and not sleeping, is her nose running, does she seem to have the flu and the stomach flu at the same time? These are all signs of withdrawal and coming off at 4 mgs is probably pretty hard on her. If you contact Robert, he may be able to tell you what to do, He works in a rehab/recovery clinic and he is the one that I learned that I was overmedicated from, he says no patient should start suboxone on over one 8 mg pill, I was put on 12 at first and am now at .25, successfully, and if you follow on here, you will realize how rare it is that anyone gets off without going into a rehab clinic and getting off. I am not trying to fuss at you, I am truly concerned, but I also want you to know that we will support you and your girlfriend here, we are just all really scared at what happened in this case. Best of Luck, I swear I am praying for you. Please contact Robert_325 and ask what to do. Patti
Chris, do not apologize for any answer - I am sure we have all typed frantically to someone with an answer they must get quickly and I have more than my share of those you know - it's O.K. that's what we all said really - diffrent words but the same message - sometimes they need to hear someone elses FEAR before they get it and everyone went on to help. Good girl. kath
Thanks Kath, just having a bad hair day I guess. I need to stay away from questions that bother me. Or at least think before I yell. We've been there already, the 2 of us :-)
Yes, ditto - I am actually sending this just to see where it lands so I can try and figure this out. I have been stopping to scroll down when I get to the ad and miss everything else. It's like going back to school for me!.
It is incredible how some people on this forum are here because they questioned authority, they question their doctor's methods and they came here to find other ways of approaching and overcoming a dependency to a drug and at the same time take a strong dogmatic and rude stand against a person that has also decided to follow the same principle of taking control of a situation for the betterment of another human being. It reminds me of the film Lorenzo's Oil.
I believe that an addict has lost control of his or hers will to make important decisions when it comes to issues related to the addiction. A small minority is an exception. We are not talking about the millions of heroin addicts in China during Japanese occupation in which they were forced to be addicts.
We are talking about people who became addicts and are now on some maintenance program in which another drug is supplied so all hell doesn't brake loose.
I also don't believe in the myth that an addict has to want to get out of addiction in order to become drug free.
I have been in 90% of my girlfriend's doctor visits and I know how it goes. Most of it is complacency. How you feel? Have you done anything illegal? Here is the prescription...
This is the 8th day, she feels lot better than yesterday. She was able to sleep better and only has minor headache. Before I stop giving her the pill she was taking half a pill every 2-3 days so the jump wasn't that bad.
I understand some of your concerns for what will be a baby (5 weeks only) on the other hand we have to think also of the future. We don't want to have a frankenstein because someone didn't want to be uncomfortable . I prefer some unpleasant pain now than seeing nurses inject morphine to a new born.
I took the real subs and hide them at my desk at work.
Today she told me that she should have taken those days in which she was very sick and stop taking the pills because it wasn't doing anything to her (it was, it was giving her vitamin C). She says that she is afraid of what will happen if she continues taking the pills...
Believe me, this is not like refusing to give insulin to a diabetic patient. Before she got in a program of sub I spent over 1 thousand buying her the sub because she didn't have insurance. At one point i had to buy them on the street because her disorganized life didn't permit her to see a therapist before the sub Dr. and he refused then to see her. No prescription then.
We have gone through a lot. This is small in comparison. Today I need to pick for the first time her subutex at the pharmacy. I already have some calcium pills that look similar. If getting out of drugs is a good thing, like winning the lottery, and someone by tricks gets one out of it, should that person be condemned?
What people need is not more and more drugs or long term reduced harm drugs but therapy and support, smart recovery.
The reason why she was able to get out of the streets after 6-4 years of heroin addiction is because I sacrificed everything of value in order to rescue her. Where would she be if i left everything to the doctors? They or you are not going to spend nights at the hospital taking care of a drug addict or a baby with NAS.
Thanks for the people that shared their opinion and experiences.
Aren't you going to tell her at some point in the future that she doesn't have to fear withdrawal anymore since she wasn't taking the real subs? She may be incredibly relieved that you have proven to her that she did not need them like she thought and unbeknownst to her she has already gone through withdrawal and she is all finished with what she feared. It seems only fair that you should tell her after all the hard work you went to. The only problem is that she hasn't gotten the part of addiction recovery that she needs, the talking with others who have the same problem - drink, drugs, all the same. Meetings of AA and NA are perfect but something so she can learn to live without drugs. I had 11 years of AA before I became a mother and had a relapse 12 years later and I was vey educated about addiction. No one is safe from this nightmarish trip to hell and if you think she is going to just think about the child you don't understand addiction.
I hope I am wrong but I think she may feel 'duped and dumb' by what you did. I would ask forgiveness and move on to recovery with her. Hopefully she will be so busy with the healthy new baby that you won't have to worry about whether or not she is "planning a relapse" but quite frankly, you will never know until it hits. Good Luck. Let us know what happens.
This is unbelievably fool hardy and very dangerous to be playing Dr. with someone elses meds. Please go to the Dr. with her and you guys need to start being honest with each other or this baby is in for a life of crazy hell.
Thank God she is only 5 weeks pregnant. Please make sure she is getting the counseling and support she needs so she won't feel as lonely or feel the cravings. The cravings do get to alot of the patients, she needs the counseling, believe me, she needs it, make her go if you can.
man to be honest you could kill you child. i dont know if you ever saw her go into withdrawals before, but if you have just imagine that 100 times worse and having no clue whats going on, whats causing this, one of my best friends lost her baby because she detoxed her self. its sad. My daughter was born while her mother was taking 24mg of subutex a day and my daughter never once showed any signs of withdrawal at all, I will be honest i was so so scared to even think my little new born baby was going to be in withdrawals, but 99.9999999999% of babies born while mom was taking subutex never withdrawal, the ones that do withdrawal are the ones that dont care about the baby inside them and use other drugs. I just dont want you to hurt your unborn child, just think if this was 10 years ago she would be on methadone and them babies make you wanna cry. I really hope you take what i said and sit down and think, think real hard. I promise it will be okay.
Thanks for your kind words. When I decided to switch the pills I didn't know about the effects of withdrawing during pregnancy nevertheless before she lost her first pregnancy I remember when her Dr. told her that she had a great reason to stop taking the pills and be free. She never did and still lost it. I knew that the issue was her and her will to endure or not pain. Before this pregnancy I started breaking the pills and giving her half every other day or later than 48 hours. I did this for about 4 weeks. I noticed that she wasn't getting that sick and was able to ask for the dose only when she couldn't sleep or was having shivers.
Today is day # 13 without the pill. She seems happier and her little discomforts are not as visible as before. She sleeps less in the sense that she wakes up in the morning and is not sleeping 10-12 hours a day. In other words her body is more "normal". I thinks that the real problem for addicts is the mental dependency. The belief that you need something in order to get on with life. i asked her what will happen if she stops taking taking the pill and she says that it'll be very ugly. In other words even when she doesn't need it she thinks she does. This is a cycle that needs to be broken. Taking pills/drugs because you need them and needing pills/drugs because you are taking them and on and on...
The body and the mind have the capacity to recover and adapt. It needs a chance so it can work itself out of this enslaving cycle.
If she was able to get out without even planning it, people on in this site can do it too. What she needs now is to work to build the strength so that relapse don't occur.
can i be honest here and just say that sub is a crazy thing to do in the first place?! it's just replacing one opioid with another, with the inevitable consequence of having to detox one way or the other. i've been on sub for 3 years, but i quit it after a taper down to .5mg/day, 15 days ago. let me say that this withdrawal is worse and longer than any one i've ever been through on regular opioids. anyway, my question is, which is more dangerous for the baby... the sub running through it's veins, or the withdrawal? i would think the withdrawal would be more detrimental for the baby. i'm no doc.
I had a 55 pill a day habit of oxycodone and morphine for 4 years before signing myself into a detox facility. I was put on 3 suboxone 8/4 mg a day, plus countless other meds. I spent 8 days in inpatient therapy and still go to therapy at least once every 2 months. I have been off of narcotics since early July of 2009, except for when I have had a kidney stone (which is why I got hooked in the first place) or when I had my baby which was in march of this year because of a c-section. My point is that I saw a perinatologist because of kidney stones/infections early in my pregnancy in which I was back on narcs after being clean from them and suboxone since late in 2009. Looking back, I don't remember having any withdrawals from suboxone, I had just gone through a divorce and was totally in love with a new man and wanted to start my life over, so I quit the suboxone as well as everything else. I did very well until I became pregnant in June of 2010.
I have 3 sons now, and pregnancy has never been good for me. I had all my boys early, they were all high risk, I had kidney/bladder problems with them, and they all ended with a c-section. With my first two, I didn't even know what narcotic pain relievers were and had no problem with them after I healed. All that changed when I got my first kidney stone 4 months after my second son was born. After that I was fighting an uphill battle with my health and marriage and used pills not only to treat physical pain but mental and emotional pain as well. After my 3rd pregnancy began, they started me on subutex because it was safer than narcs and they didn't want me to quit cold turkey because I could lose the baby. I was given a choice of methadone or subutex and discussed this with my ob and perinatologist. I learned that the baby would have an 85% chance of being born addicted to methadone and a 3% chance with subutex, so I chose the lesser of two evils. Please don't get me wrong, suboxone/subutex saved my life and I would do it all over again, but a 3% chance is still scary, especially when it comes to your unborn Childs health. I honestly didn't do enough research on subutex and pregnancy and thought my child would be the other 97% that was born with no withdrawal symptoms. I was dead wrong and totally clueless! I was able to see my baby for about 5 seconds before he was taken to the nicu. I was never allowed to take him out of the nicu until we were released to go home, then 2 hours later child services showed up and asked me how long I had been addicted to heroin! Heroin? Really!!! I was 30 years old and the only drug I had done was pills. My families life was invaded by child services and nurses had to come by everyday to check on my sons progress, even when he showed no signs of withdrawal. Everyone stared at me like I was some horrible mother for taking a drug while pregnant. Even my husband looked at me differently. Then after going through all that, my son started showing signs of withdrawal after being home for 2 days. I called the doctor immediately and was instructed to come to the nicu immediately. We were sent home without our baby. I was on 8mg of subutex a day throughout my pregnancy, the lowest dose they would allow me to take, yet I was still a horrible mom to so many, and things stayed that way for awhile. My son was put on morphine for withdrawals and the first time he was weened off of it, it failed. He spent almost 3 weeks in the nicu before we could bring him home. Now he is a healthy, happy 15 month old, but it was hell getting here today. I just stopped taking subutex about 3 weeks ago, and I am still having wd symptoms, even after being on such a low dose. There is no such thing as a 99.99999% chance that your child won't be addicted. Some people may have a child with no wd symptoms, but it is my understanding that those are few and far between. To all the mothers out there on subutex therapy, either before or during pregnancy, please do your homework on this, and if possible, get off before you conceive. And if not, please prepare yourself and your family for the backlashing of society and the people you feel like you can trust, you will definitely learn who your friends are.
I know this post is old, but, how did your girlfriend do? What was the outcome?
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