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Tapering From Norco Soon. Would Like Feedback on My Plan.
Ok, so right now I have myself about a 6-10 Norco per day addiction. I've been taking them for some time. I really need to quit and if not quit completely then take far less than I'm currently taking. I don't have the will to go cold turkey and rehab isn't really viable either. Ideally I'd like to conquer this on my own.
This is my plan as it currently stands. The way I see it I take pills between 5 and 6 times daily. Usually I take around 2 pills when I wake up and before bed and then I take a pill and a half the other times except when I'm at work, then I only take one pill. My exact taper plan as I have it currently is down below. Right now I plan to do each step for one week and then move down. There may be some steps I hold for a couple of weeks or so but hopefully not too many.
Also once I begin the taper I'm planning on doing a running diary of sorts which I will likely post here in some fashion where I will update things and write down my thoughts and so forth in the hopes that maybe it will help someone else down the road.
What I'm looking for here is simply input. Do you think it's too slow? Do you think maybe I should start with smaller amounts. Basically anything that comes to mind whether it be advice on the schedule or helpful tips or whatever else you might think to add. Your input is greatly appreciated! Thanks you!
Week 01: 8am-2.00, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.50, 5pm-1.00, 8pm-1.50, 11pm-2.00
Week 02: 8am-2.00, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.50, 5pm-1.00, 8pm-1.00, 11pm-2.00
Week 03: 8am-2.00, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-1.00, 8pm-1.00, 11pm-2.00
Week 04: 8am-2.00, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-1.00, 8pm-1.00, 11pm-1.50
Week 05: 8am-2.00, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-1.00, 11pm-1.50
Week 06: 8am-1.50, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-1.00, 11pm-1.50
Week 07: 8am-1.50, 11am-1.50, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.50
Week 08: 8am-1.50, 11am-1.00, 2pm-1.00, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.50
Week 09: 8am-1.50, 11am-1.00, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.50
Week 10: 8am-1.50, 11am-1.00, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.25
Week 11: 8am-1.25, 11am-1.00, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.25
Week 12: 8am-1.25, 11am-1.00, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.00
Week 13: 8am-1.00, 11am-1.00, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.00
Week 14: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.75, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.75, 11pm-1.00
Week 15: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.75, 2pm-0.75, 5pm-0.50, 11pm-1.00
Week 16: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.75, 2pm-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 11pm-1.00
Week 17: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.75, 2pm-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 11pm-0.75
Week 18: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.50, 2pm-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 11pm-0.75
Week 19: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.75, 5pm-0.50, 10pm-0.75
Week 20: 8am-1.00, 11am-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 10pm-0.75
Week 21: 8am-0.75, 11am-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 10pm-0.75
Week 22: 8am-0.75, 11am-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 10pm-0.50
Week 23: 8am-0.50, 11am-0.50, 5pm-0.50, 10pm-0.50
Week 24: 8am-0.75, 2pm-0.50, 10pm-0.75
Week 25: 8am-0.75, 2pm-0.50, 10pm-0.50
Week 26: 8am-0.50, 2pm-0.50, 10pm-0.50
Week 27: 8am-0.50, 2pm-0.25, 10pm-0.50
Week 28: 8am-0.50, 2pm-0.25, 10pm-0.25
Week 29: 8am-0.25, 2pm-0.25, 10pm-0.25
Last edited by bradyharden; 01-21-2013 at 02:58 PM.
welcome to the forum. wow, i could have never had the patience to type out that entire schedule of dosing amounts and times. but u did a good job of it! real nice schedule.
the thing is ur habit while it's certainly concerning to u, is really not that bad. u haven't been taking outrageous amounts of drugs like many others have including myself. and norco is actually one of the "weaker" of the opiates. with a 5-6 day norco habit i would STRONGLY sugest u re-think the C/T approach. that is exactly what i would do if it were me. 3-5 days of rather harsh symptoms and the worst would be over. a taper is going to take every single ounce of strength u have to accomplish, and u will still have some withdrawal symptoms at the end of it. i tried to taper many times, but if i had pills around i would ALWAYS gobble them down as fast as possible. it takes an enourmous amount of willpower to do it like u plan. i'm NOT saying it isn't possible, not at all. there have been several that have done it and went on to have a life free of addiction. it's just the success rate for tapering is very, very low in most cases. i'm just speaking from experience.
u will receive all the suppost u need no matter what u choose to do. i am just giving my 2 cents worth here. others will jump in soon and give their opinions i'm sure. good luck and keep posting as much as possible. helps to talk about every step along the way.
Your first sentence tells it all: " I really need to quit and if not quit completely then take far less than I'm currently taking." Once you decide it's over it has to be over, period. There is no one once in a while. There is no dabbling here and there. You are an addict. 1 is too many and 1000 are not enough. I know, been there right where you are many, many times. I don't know why norco/hydro's are so hard to kick and stay away from. If you can taper, more power to you. But your talking about weeks! Dude that is excessive. I would never, never be able to do that. Protocol is cut by .25% every 4 days and then jump. I'd jump at where you are. You will have 3-5 days of feeling like crud, but then it's over and the hard part starts: staying clean. Like kikker said, we will support you no matter what, but I don't think you're ready to give them up PERIOD. If you are you need to convince me and own up to being an addict.
First off thank you both for taking time to reply. I appreciate it. Secondly, I know you both suggested I just go cold turkey. In a perfect world where I could lock myself away for a 3 days or 5 days or a week that would be the route I'd probably take. Unfortunately I have commitments and responsibilities that are hard to put aside for 3-5 hours never mind 3-5 days.
Thirdly, I want to point out that I am anticipating this taper being incredibly fluid. The best laid plans of mice and men and all. Depending on how I feel at a given time I may opt to speed the process up or I may decide to extend a certain section if the need arrises. All that being said I don't anticipate taking it to it's full 25+ week duration. Ideally I'd like to get down to a point where I can go cold turkey and hopefully remain active through the w/d's and see to my responsibilities and commitments.
Finally, I would like to responsd to iloerose. I know you say that there is no dabbling and seem to think it should be an all or nothing proposition. I understand where you are coming from. I do. So while my end goal is to absolutely come out of this clean and sober I will not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. So while my intentions are to cut my usage off all together if the best I can do on my own is cut it by two thirds that's still something and I'm in a much better place than where I started. However, I will say it again, my intention is NOT to cut it to a smaller dose it is to do away with it completely.
Rose is only saying that because we have all been there.
If you leave your mind any out, any rationalization, it will take it. In order to leave this disease you really have to have an absolute decision made in your mind. Even one time use is enough to bring you back into the fold.
6 per day actually is really small, aswas already said.
We are just worried about your schedule, it looks great on paper. But what if you miss a day? A week? What if you are out behind schedule. Bottom line is for me, that would be far too much enticement to be able to quit. You have to get away from these things.
We are all different and if this is how your want to do it God Bless. I will say however it is much riskier than going cold turkey.
With such a small habit (I was taking 25+ per day and serious WD lasted about 4 days) I believe you could push through and barely notice any problems.
As to your schedule, if I were you I would take those 25 weeks into 2 or possibly 3 weeks tops. Cut 25% (4.5 pills) for 4 days, cut another 25% (3 pills) for 4 days, cut another 25% (1.5 pills) for 4 days, then go cold turkey from there.
Last edited by Strengthnow; 01-23-2013 at 01:49 PM.
I am also tapering on a 6-8 dose of 7.5 norco. The mental part is hard. I am at 4 now and to think about only 3 is hard. We can do this. I will add u so we can keep in touch .
Can't figure out how to add u. :/. I really hope we stay in touch. I really need some support of someone who is doing this too
Originally Posted by Prayer needed 76
I wish you well on your taper plan. There is no way I could have tapered. I would have said okay I'll take two extra today and less tomorrow. We all know that never works and they would be gone fast. I never thought I could go ct either. But when you really want it, you'd be surprised of what you can really do. I have a lot of responsibilities also with three kids but I had to do it. My husband helped tremendously. I just acted like I had the flu. It was hard the first 4-5 days but after that things start to get better. Once again, you truly have to want it like you've never wanted anything else.
Good luck on your taper, you can do this!!
Last edited by Leeanne15; 01-23-2013 at 08:35 PM.
Thanks to everyone again for the responses. I would just like to address going cold turkey a bit more To me personally the temptation to quit mid >>>>>> would be much much greater. I can pretty much promise that by the end of the second day I'd likely cave in. I simply don't have the resources or extra help right now to put any part of my life on hold while I go through those few days.
The need to see to my day to day life is the sole reason I'm choosing to taper. It's also the reason I'm doing a relatively slow taper. I understand fully it's a tricky proposition. I've done a bunch of research on all my different options and this really is the best way for me right now.
Of course as I've said earlier I anticipate that, once I get into the swing of things and get used to taking my pills on a set schedule and not whenever I'm feeling like it, I will likely come in a bit under my projected time table. Will it be one week ahead of schedule? A month? I can't even venture to guess. All I can say is that I will stick to it as best I can and at times I feel I can do better than what I have scheduled I will attempt to do so.
i agree with Iloerose here that it sounds like ur just not completely ready to give them up. not judging u at all, only understanding what ur really saying by that statement i highlighted above. in other words u really want to quit the pills, but if u can't then it's perfectly ok to resume taking them. think about that for a moment and how it sounds....
Originally Posted by bradyharden
u either keep taking the pills and enjoying the lifestyle that comes with doing that, or u really WANT IT bad enough to get rid of every pill u have, every way of obtaining more pills, and be done with it immediately. there's no half-way, or part of the way in this. it's basically all or nothing and u either really want to be clean or u don't. and this info is for ur drug abuse ONLY of 6-10 norco's per day. if ur habit was much larger then it might seem reasonable to try and work the taper, but i truly believe ur very best opyion is the C/T method right now.
just like Leeanne said: u may say to urself: it's perfectly ok to take 2 extra one day and none the next. that's the disease talking....and then it will be ok to take 3 extra one day and u'll skip taking them for a couple days to "catch up" with the dosing. and in the end the taper is blown, ur out of pills, and on the road or phone searching for more of them. i know Brady, i've been there way too many times. it's almost always the same as anyone here can tell u.
i would like nothing better for u to come back in a while and say "guess what Kikker, u were sooo wrong...i did it, i made it thru to the other side and u were wrong". i would love that more than anything, but i'm also willing to give u odds that is not going to happen. tapering CAN be successful, and it has been done here by several people. but the "never made it's" far outweigh by a overwhelming margin the ones that did make it i promise u.
"I am anticipating this taper being incredibly fluid. The best laid plans of mice and men and all. Depending on how I feel at a given time I may opt to speed the process up or I may decide to extend a certain section if the need arrises".....
if that's the case then why go to all that trouble planning and typing the taper plan out???
ur planning on the taper being very smooth, BUT, depending on how u feel, u may opt to speed things up, OR extend the taper. think about that also please.....u are already giving urself a way out if things go awry.....and in the back of ur mind know that's a very real scenario.
i'm not trying to upset u in any way i promise. i've just been right where u are way too many times as i said earlier. if the taper is the way u have ur mind set on then give it everything u have. i will do like i said and support u all the way while ur doing it, and so will the others here. i wish u the very best ok. keep posting as much as possible. it helps to get all ur thoughts out, and keeps a record of ur progress each day.
I think the issue we are having here is I may be looking at this matter in a different light. Right now I'm aware I have a problem. It is a problem I've had now for some time I'm well aware it's something that needs addressed but I simply don't have the luxury of being able to address it in the most immediate way possible.
What I do have is the luxury of being in a place to address it over an extended period of time. I say that because I'm not anywhere close to financial ruin, I'm not increasing my dosages. I've taken the same weekly amount for a very long time now. I'm not out Dr shopping or buying from shady people on the street. I have a good job that I show up to six days a week most weeks. I would be in what I would call a holding pattern with this issue. It's become part of my daily routine. I know it's a problem though and I've set my mind to correcting it.
Also I think we are obviously of different minds about my taper. At my job I make out a quarterly projection every three months or so. That projection tells me about where I should be on certain things at any given point over that quarter. My taper schedule I made out is pretty much like one of my quarterly projections in that it's a guideline of where I want to be at on any given week. And just like at work I'm not crazy enough to write out a plan that spans over three months and think that it's going to go off perfect to form.
Ultimately though my goal at the end of any given week will be to just take less than the week before and to stick to my schedule to the best of my ability. Maybe every day won't be perfect but so long as the end number gets smaller every week I will be making progress I can be happy with. On the same note I'm not going to throw my hands in the air and just give up at the first bump in the road. I'm not perfect and I don't pretend to be. The best I can do is to use the guidelines I've prepared for myself and do my best to hit those marks.
Brady, don't get me wrong, if you can taper then by all means taper. I was only stating that I could never taper and I was taking a little less than you and for 15+ years. I hope your plan works, I just simply wanted you to know that ct is doable. I was so against it at first telling my husband that I couldn't do it. It terrified me. But between my wanting it really bad and these people on the boards, I did it. That's what I meant about really wanting it. I was so tired of living that way. Always worrying where I was gonna get my next pill. Heck I couldn't even go on vacations or even out of the door for that matter without them. I woke up every morning and went to bed each night thinking about them. It consumed me it consumed my whole life. I have a wonderful husband and three beautiful children that needed me. Not the drug induced me. I actually thought I was a wonder mom. I did everything. But in all reality and lookin back, I was just an empty shell. It's sad really.
I will tell you the truth, it really IS way BETTER on the other side. Believe it or not, I do more now than I did then. Also, my husband and children have me, the REAL me back. I'm happier than I have been in years. I have this board and my husband to thank for that.
Anyways, I'm wishing you nothing but the best, and want you to know that we are all here for you. You CAN do this, hopefully you WILL do this!!
Ok, I have been on Norco 10s for a while now. I have tried to go cold turkey so many times and after 2 days I cant take it any more. I have had the worse withdrawl symptoms imaginable. One day I had what felt like mini seizures for almost 8 hrs. I finally decided this time when i was out of my pills I was going to do something different. I finally tried the Krantom. I have been off of my pills for 24hrs now and started taking the krantom right away. I feel great. I truley cant believe it. I have suffered so many times I was scared to death. My friend ordered it for me and yes it tastes awful but if you choke it down in less than 20 min your feeling better. In some ways better than i did on the Norco. I hope this helps. I would never suggest anyone trying it cold turkey. For me it was so hard on my body. I couldnt function for 2 days straight. Not to mention almost being suicidal over it all. If i can help any more please let me know.
Originally Posted by bradyharden
You have been taking between 6-10 norco 10 per day which is an uneven dose and 10 is over limit for norco. Are you getting these legally? One doctor? You take the drugs every day right? Don't give me a bunch of analysis *****. You are an addict, like me and like kikker, and like cheeky, and everyone here on this board how dare you think you are any different? You are an addict just like the dude sticking a needle in his arm on the street. If you think you are any different you are dead wrong and are NOT ready to quit. Your taper plan is absurd. You should be going down by .25% every 4-5 days. There is no reason it should take anyone in the world that long to quit norco. You don't want to quit. You are not yet ready to quit. That's why your taper plan is so long and drawn out. Where are you getting your pills anyway?
Red: If Kratom was a legitimate way to detox there would be no addicts here. I know that Norco/hydrocodone w/d is difficult and unpleasant. How many were you on? How long were you on? Not knocking the difficulty of breaking a habit from hydrocodone but three more days and you would have been free. Instead you're trading one addiction for another.
For everyone reading this thread:
The only way to get clean is to want to more than anything else in the world.
There is NO MAGIC CURE. DO NOT TRADE ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER.
Kratom is absurd. Try the Thomas Recipe and deal with it for 3-5 days.
It seems we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You seem to be getting rather combative and while I do appreciate the feedback I'm not looking for an argument.
Originally Posted by iloerose
The last thing I will say on this matter is that that most goals have more than one way of being accomplished. While you and others may have found success one way it may simply not be the best option for everyone. People are by their very nature are all incredibly different and while we all share an addiction our other factors vary greatly I would hazard to guess. So while going c/t worked for you and others I'm fully willing to admit that I'm totally and completely unwilling to try going a route that could well endanger a very good job I worked hard to get and would very likely be unable to replace.
As to your final question, I get my medication legally. I am prescribed 180 every month for back and neck issues. How many I take on a given day relies heavily on how long and where I work on that day. The days I'm stuck at work for the entire day I take very few and on the flip side I seem to take more on days when I don't work or I end up working from home. Also the amount I take at a given time also widely varies. Sometimes I will take as little as a half of a pill and other times, usually when I first get up I will take two. It's incredibly rare I have any left over when my refill comes due but it is equally rare that I ever run out early.
i've never tapered off opiates. jumped off because i was already in withdrawals from being tolerant.
i am now tapering off cymbalta. it's tedious to taper i know.
my instincts tell me to get it over with but i know i have to taper.
comparing apples to oranges maybe, but i constantly have to make myself either l. not jump c/t or 2. not go up on my taper, resist the urge.
so keep posting and letting us know how you're doing. you may find yourself quitting before you expect just to get it over with. might not. just don't take more than you plan.
good luck. it's been done, takes lots of willpower.
I'm sorry, I'm not looking for an argument and perhaps you're in pain and need the meds. but addicts who want to come off of Hydrocodone are usually very frightened to come off even small doses. It's frightening to lose the security blanket that you've had for so long. A short taper for norco abuse or c/t is best otherwise you just seem to drag out the w/d. Norco, though again I say this knowing full well hydrocodone addiction is serious business, is not as powerful an opiate as some: say oxycodone. You will not die from norco detox and it takes 3-5 days to c/t from this. If people are afraid of the w/d and have the will power or someone to hold their drugs then by all means tapering is great! Will you still experience w/d. You bet. Will they be as bad? Depends on the person. Hydrocodone has a relatively small half-life, but a I don't want people to think that they are making progress using a 29 week taper for hydrocodone and start using this as an excuse not to put their fears aside and get on with their lives. As I said: taper .25% every 4-5 days is more than sufficient for your body to adjust to the dose. C/T really bad days? 3-5 like a horrible flu. If you want to do this taper, more power to you and I hope you don't have problems with this. I just don't want to promote this type of plan to people who are seriously addicted to hydrocodone because it gives them an excuse to use for an extended period of time, unnecessarily.
There are medicines that have to be tapered slowly because of the dangerous effects: anti-depresents, benzodiazipines, methaone, suboxone, and others. I just want people to know that it's not the norm with hydrocodone and many people will just be drawing out their use.
I have to agree. Hydros are not a very strong opiate compared to Oxy,which is more like >>>>>>,only legal. I have done the Oxy CT and let me tell you this,I would rather do 2 bad hydro w/ds then 1 Oxy w/d. Taking 29 weeks and tapering like you are planning will likely fail.I am not trying to be negative,I am speaking as an addict,which that is what we all are,addicts,a slave to these damn pills. I am sure you get vacation time.Take some,CT the hydros and go back to living like you were before the pills. You'll feel much better that you done it that way. I was on about the same amount as you are now when I done a CT from hydro back in March/April of last year. I struggled and had to use a milder opiate because I relapsed several times. I am back on them,but at a much lower dose.I don't want to be on them,in fact I stopped for 4 days this past week and was perfectly fine except for no sleep and the pain from the injury that has me taking the pills during the winter months. If you can't follow the advice given in this thread,I seriously don't feel you are 100% ready to give them up. The people who have replied have probably done it multiple times like I have and everyone is different when it comes to symptoms. For all you know,you could be one of the lucky ones and not even have a hard w/d and be back to normal in 2-3 days. I can't really offer you any more advice then what is given since it was all pretty good advice.
Originally Posted by iloerose
This is so true. I went cold turkey thursday. I"ve been on around 6-8 norco a day. I had 15 left and was going to taper through the weekend and said eff it and tossed the bottle out of my car window on the way home from work. It's been less than 48hrs and not as bad as I thought it would be. I've been reading Keith Richards autobiography and he tells about various times when he went cold turkey and I realize I'm no where near that bad off. It is very comforting reading other peoples experiences. This sight helps too. When it gets really bad I think of how i used to be before I got on these. I wrote stories, i ran and rode my bike. I don't do anything on the pills. When I first got on them I did more of everything but three years later I just eat them so I don't get sick. I wish everyone good luck, and I'll be following the threads.
Originally Posted by iloerose
Ah Brady, I feel for you. In fact it's as though you are me a couple of years ago. Kinda scary. Your methodology is fabulous. But alas, you will see us post again and again: We have to be all or nothing. As long as I had something (oxy, hydro, fentanyl, methadone)--anything--in my system I ended up going back to my habit. I hope your carefully laid out schedule works for you. You will be in the minority. Here is one thing I want to point out about why we consider(ed) ourselves addicts: Powerlessness. It's the 1st principle of AA/NA. Addicts and alcoholics are powerless over our addictions, hence the frustrations we face despite our best intentions. I'll get off my soapbox. Big hugs to you Brady! And best of luck.