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Need help with my last sub taper! Please feel very desperate to be me again!
  1. #1
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Exclamation Need help with my last sub taper! Please feel very desperate to be me again!

    Hi everyone! I have been reading these threads for two years and finally found the strength to post one myself. Small history of me: had back surgeries and fell into the tolerance of Vicodin and I would be lying if I said I didn't like the way it made me feel as well. I knew once I got to 20 vicodins a day that I was in trouble and tried to come off and withdrawl was so overwhelming I ended up in a suboxone clinic at 8 pm and that's where my next journey began! First year on sub was me thinking I had my life back and second year I realized I was free of nothing. I began my taper of 16 to 8 to 4 to to 2 and now I am down to taking a smidge every 3rd day and last night was my 2nd third day if that makes sense. I have went thru sheer panic for a day, then yesterday came my gut into shreds and of course anxiety is there every day but I can manage that. I feel like I wouldn't of even had to take that smidge last night at 2am if it weren't for the horrible feeling of jumping out of my skin the second I fell asleep! My heart would race, and I would fall asleep and again this would repeat! I really just hope someone can tell me how many nights of this will I have to take if I stop that third day smidge? I can't go long without sleep bcuz of work, kids, work, kids! I have Xanax and I take it before bed and I feel like I'm fine and ready for sleep and in a good place til my body falls asleep! It's a horrible feeling but I really want someone to tell me that there is something to stop that or it won't last long. I was on .25 for about 2 months before I went to .125 and then now the smidge. Any thoughts or ideas to help me thru this last hurdle? Do you even think I'm thru a hurdle? Is it my last? Should I expect worse? I wanna be someone's success story bcuz I have read one and the rest were horrible! I can't say this has been horrible, very tolerable except the sleep thing. Any thoughts are appreciated!

  2. #2
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    How fast did you taper? Are you talking about .25mg of sub or are you talking about 1/4 of a sub? and then you went to 1/8 of a sub? The reason I ask is that your symptoms do not make sense if you were at .25mg. for two months, then down to .125mg. and then skipping days. This is very confusing to me. At any rate, it's hard to advise you what do do unless I know exactly what you were taking.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  3. #3
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Ok so I have 8mg films that I was cutting into 16 pieces and took those for about two months then I was taking that tiny bit and just breaking a small piece off that. That little dose is what I've taken for past two doses (last 6 days. Does that make better sense? I'm sure I had it all wrong. I do know I can cut that piece any smaller so I know my next step is just stopping. I guess I am just hoping someone tells me I need that smidge a bit longer and then I won't have that jumpy sleep problem. I still have anxiety but it is less intense however I definitely feel a bit down. I'm sure that's normal and like I said before I can deal with all that. Just scared to death I'll never get off this little bit without more suffering. 6 days of anxiety, depression, and gut issues, I am just ready to get it all past me.
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  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    It's still hard to figure just how much you were taking. Cutting the 8mg into 16 pieces means you had 16 pieces that were .50mg each. If you cut a piece off one of them it could be .375mg, .25mg, or even .25mg. Hard to say.

    You really need to find out what dose you've been taking, it's important. Take one of those .50mg pieces and cut that in half. You'll have 2 pieces of .25mg each. Take the .25mg for 4 days. Then cut one of those .25mg pieces in half and that will be .125mg. Take that dose for 4 days.

    Then I would begin the day skipping process and get off. Take your .125mg once you get there, and after the four days you'll be on it. Then skip the following day. Dose again and skip the following 2 days. Dose again and skip the next 3 days. Dose 1 final time and that's it, you're finished!

    You could also forget going down to .125mg and begin the day skipping once you have 4 days on .25mg.

    If you follow this plan you'll be off with very few problems, if any at all. Hope this helps!

    -Randy
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  5. #5
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Ahh. That makes sense. Use nail scissors and tweezers to cut your sub and follow exactly what Randy outlined and you should be o.k. However, make sure you are stable, little to no symptoms before you drop or start skip days, if you need to take an extra day or so at a dose, so be it. Make sure you are getting some exercise, at least 20min. per day, drink plenty of water and check out the supplements from the Thomas Recipe. Post and let us know how you are. Feel free to post any questions or whatever!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  6. #6
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Ok will do! Thank you guys so much! I was hoping it wouldn't be as bad as so many of these forums make it sound out to be. So do u think I should go back to taking that dose then for the four days and start the regimen u were saying? Last I took a dose was 2 am last night or early this morning. Or should I just wait til I start to feel symptoms? I do feel like I've adjusted to going two days with no symptoms it's the third that got me each time.

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    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    mvchick......how long have u been taking the Xanax and how many mgs?
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  8. #8
    TolikG is offline Senior Member
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    Mvchick, I recently did a sub taper with help of senior members like Randy, Kat, Bette, Rose etc and it worked. U just have to be precise (with dosages), consistent (with taking them, and skipping days), and responsible. Taper as low as possible. Start skipping days at 0.125. I did it too fast and felt awful , not physically but psychologically for a while. Still not even close to 80%... Anyway -- you've been on subs for a longer period then me so it may make sense to taper even slower. Like, taking it for 5-6 days before reducing! Good luck and congrats!! You are almost there!!!
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  9. #9
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvchick78 View Post
    Ok will do! Thank you guys so much! I was hoping it wouldn't be as bad as so many of these forums make it sound out to be. So do u think I should go back to taking that dose then for the four days and start the regimen u were saying? Last I took a dose was 2 am last night or early this morning. Or should I just wait til I start to feel symptoms? I do feel like I've adjusted to going two days with no symptoms it's the third that got me each time.

    The trick is to keep a level and steady amount of sub in your system at all times especially when you want to get off. You do that by taking the same doses at the same times everyday. You should be taking just one dose per day now. Pick a time that works best for you. Most take it in the am when they get up and around for the day. Pick a time and stick to that time!

    You have to start somewhere at a dose that you take everyday to get yourself stable on. I suggested a dose of .25mg because that's low. Up to you of course, but getting completely stable on the same dose is very important.

    -Randy
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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Thank you Randy. I believe I was stable for a long time bcuz I have only been taking one a day for a year. When I started my first taper I went from two 8mg a day to one (and yes I did do the morning as well, funny how we all think alike in that aspect) so I felt like over the months the need to keep going down and about 6 months ago is when I made my 8 pieces out of one sub which I believe gave me 1 mg. then I cut that in half for about two months at .50 and just a few weeks ago cut my .50 in half. I then jumped about a week later to cutting that in half but I think where I went wrong after talking to you all is when I made that jump I also immediately started the skipping day thing. I didn't read the thread yet about two days rather I just told myself I will go as long as possible til I need that tiny piece and I went three days. Felt all the signs of withdrawl but pushed thru a lot of it by exercising, working, being at kids sports and just trying to forget. I even felt after the 3rd day kind of a "high feeling" it was strange and I still get that feeling sometimes. Does anyone know what that is? As to the Xanax question I am prescribed .50 and I take one before sleep only. I can't take Xanax in the day bcuz it makes my withdrawl more intense. I know this all seems weird. I have read a lot of these and I always knew I would be different bcuz I always seem to be that one! Lol I am just so happy I have people on here to help me! I loved the post above! Made me smile! Today for first day (since skipping doses)I woke up feeling less anxious. I slept good but I had that tiny piece the night before so that is either playing mind tricks with me or I was exhausted from the day I had yesterday. I think I will stick to the smallest dose I can cut for every other day since I hate to back pedal and go back to every day when my body don't feel the need for it. I could go every other day for sure tho. Now that I haven't had one in two days I start to get the mental anxiety so maybe this is a good time to take that tiny piece and follow that regimen that I were saying once u get to every other then go from there.

  11. #11
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Sorry I meant to say that you were saying not I. I guess what I was trying to say thru all that mumble was I can go every other day without withdrawl at this point. (Correction very mild) so I'll stick to that and stop making myself suffer the third day. So Randy do I make sure I feel stable at that two days before going to 3? Also it has currently been 31 hours since the last dose of what I believe was .125
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-18-2015 at 10:12 AM.

  12. #12
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvchick78 View Post
    Sorry I meant to say that you were saying not I. I guess what I was trying to say thru all that mumble was I can go every other day without withdrawl at this point. (Correction very mild) so I'll stick to that and stop making myself suffer the third day. So Randy do I make sure I feel stable at that two days before going to 3?

    What you want to do is spend 4 days on ech dose. At least 4 days. Sometimes it takes a couple days for your body to adjust to the new dose. After those 4 days if you feel real stable and real good then go ahead and reduce by 25% to the next dose.

    If you aren't fully stable and feeling well after the 4 days then remain on that same dose another day or two to see if that gets you stable. If it does then reduce. If you're still not stable after 5-6 days remain there longer until you ARE stable and feeling good.

    Remeber this is no race, all you have to do is finish. This is a process and not an event Robert use to always say. And it's so true. Take your time and don't rush the taper because that's when problems creep up!


    -Randy
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  13. #13
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Very well said and so true! That's exactly how I was looking at it! Fight against the clock and every time I took that smidge I was setting myself back when really I wasn't. It's the mind of an addict I guess. Ok Randy sorry to ask u pretty much same thing three times lol I just wanted to be sure I was understanding it correctly. Thank you so much! I will keep u all informed on how I do!
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  14. #14
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvchick78 View Post
    Very well said and so true! That's exactly how I was looking at it! Fight against the clock and every time I took that smidge I was setting myself back when really I wasn't. It's the mind of an addict I guess. Ok Randy sorry to ask u pretty much same thing three times lol I just wanted to be sure I was understanding it correctly. Thank you so much! I will keep u all informed on how I do!

    No problem, happy to help all that I can.
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  15. #15
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TolikG View Post
    Mvchick, I recently did a sub taper with help of senior members like Randy, Kat, Bette, Rose etc and it worked. U just have to be precise (with dosages), consistent (with taking them, and skipping days), and responsible. Taper as low as possible. Start skipping days at 0.125. I did it too fast and felt awful , not physically but psychologically for a while. Still not even close to 80%... Anyway -- you've been on subs for a longer period then me so it may make sense to taper even slower. Like, taking it for 5-6 days before reducing! Good luck and congrats!! You are almost there!!!
    May I ask TolikG? How long ago did u stop taking them? When you say 80% do u mean depression wise or withdrawl? I know they r the same but I've been depressed before I know I can get thru that just the physical things that hold me back.

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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    I am definitely feeling a lot of anxiety today and won't be to 48 hours for another 12 hrs. I really wanna push myself thru to the 48 mark before taking that .125 bcuz it would be my third time consecutively waiting exactly 48 hrs. I feel like each time I can get there the next one will be easier. I hate to set myself back and take it now so any words of encouragements would help me a lot right now. I am gonna stick to the plan given starting at the skipping a day bcuz I feel I was very steady at .25 and even when I dropped lower than that I was good. It didn't really hit me til skipping a day. Getting to 48 hrs is tough. I know this must be more mental and I know I have a weak mind, I always have. I know this bcuz yesterday I spent 12 hrs at sons tournament and was happy (not thinking about it just positive bcuz watching him play is what I live for sometimes) then right when we got home I had to run daughter to the ER for kidney stones. Needless to say other than a few short moments I had a good day. Today is Sunday and it's the one day we don't have much to do. I've tried staying busy with housework. I wanna go workout in a bit but my son has a championship game in a half hour so I am gonna wait til after. Maybe by time I get home I will feel a lot better, who knows. I think it's very important for anyone going thru this to keep busy bcuz when I'm home it consumes my every thought! When I'm at work it's passes in a flash cuz I'm too busy to worry about my life. Anyways again I'm rambling, nobody has to answer I am now just using this outlet as a journal bcuz it seems to help me. Maybe I can use this someday to help someone else who knows.
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  17. #17
    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    My- I'm so glad you found your way here. As I told you on the other thread, people will rush to help you and so far you have some of the best support people on here. Follow their instructions and you will be through this in no time. You can do this if you really want it and these guys will walk you through every step. So looking forward to watching your success.Good luck.
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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessWhammy View Post
    My- I'm so glad you found your way here. As I told you on the other thread, people will rush to help you and so far you have some of the best support people on here. Follow their instructions and you will be through this in no time. You can do this if you really want it and these guys will walk you through every step. So looking forward to watching your success.Good luck.
    Thank u! That means a lot! I feel very alone, as nobody but my husband truely knows what I am going thru and this site is amazing! It helped me realize a year ago that I needed to taper. It's been a blessing! I know I'm in good hands no doubt! If I can't get thru these 48 hr periods within next time it's time to take again I may go back to the .125 a day for 4 and then skip like he said I've just suffered enough to take a step back. I am so determined and I knew it wouldn't be easy and if it weren't for the depression at the moment I would be good! Maybe it's a sign I have very little left in me. I keep going to take a .125 and tell myself wait another hour and it's worked so far. Crossing fingers I can get to 48 again!

  19. #19
    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    Please read Randys last post again! If you have already skipped 48 hrs then your next skip would be 72 hour, 1 dose and then jump. You may want to do the 4 days at 12.5 then start the day skipping as recommended. These people know what they are talking about. Not only have they helped 100's of people do this, they have been there themselves and know what works. Being inconsistent on your dosages and skip days keep your levels unstable and my make it harder to jump. You have come soooo far and you are doing so well. The light at the end of the tunnel is right there. Please follow what Randy, Iloerose, and Tolik are telling you. It really will make your landing easier.
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  20. #20
    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    We must have posted at the same time Its not a step back if it betters your odds of being successful. As long as you are here and getting help, don't feel guilty. YOU CAN DO THIS!!! I think you will be surprised how much less depression you will have once you get through this. Just keep posting. We're here.
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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Ok I will trust the professionals because that's why I am here!i am going to take the .125 every other day like I've been rather then make myself wait the 48 hrs and I am going to stay at this dose until all symptoms r gone. Before my plan was to keep going as long as possible til I couldn't take it anymore but now that I'm reading these posts, why would I wanna prolong the side effects by jumping to fast! I think I'll just stay on this dose til my body tells me I feel normal again then make the next jump. I hope I am understanding this right. I have read and reread their posts and I feel like I felt too good at the .125 every day so that's why I went to that to every 48 hrs. I am officially almost to my 48 hrs now and have a lot of anxiety so I'm gonna stop trying to kick this thing this week and remember it takes time! I know somebody said it's not a race and I keep telling my brain that but it keeps telling me to hurry up and be done with this! So this could make my WD last longer if not done properly? I definitely don't want that to happen! When do these blues go away? How long before your brain reproduces them? Anyone know? Tonight is the night my RLS will start and I'm just gonna nip it in the bud and take my .125 and not beat myself up over it. Thanks all!
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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Also will I have to start over with the withdrawls? Since I've only taken a .125 every 48 hrs for last 4 days. I've been in withdrawl (manageable WD) for the last 4 days so if I go to taking it more will I go thru all of this again? Or no bcuz I'm doing it properly? I'm not afraid of small but I don't wanna add more to my system if I don't have to. I wish I would've started and knew about this plan before I started this skipping day thing. Seems like the way u said it was perfect I just jumped the gun a tad with the .125 I should've let myself get more use to it then I did. Being at the .25 for so long I got cocky and thought that little last .125 wouldn't be more then a few days WD and thought I could cold turkey off the .125 but I am just not ready and I know I'm not so now I gotta tweak my dose to where I personally left off and not sure where that should be. How long of half life's do I have in me if I was on this two years?

  23. #23
    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    Okay. One thing at a time. LOL. Take the 12.5 EVERYDAY AT THE SAME TIME for at least 4 days until you feel very stable and comfortable. It may take a few days longer to get to that level of comfort. Even if it takes 10 days, that is okay! You MUST reach this stage before you start to skip. This is a process. Skipping steps WILL make the W/D worse!!! After you are stable at 12.5 you will have your first skip. Take your last daily dose, wait 48 hours. Take your next dose wait 72 hours. Take your last dose and jump. By continuing to wait 48 hours between doses you are keeping yourself in a state of constant withdrawal. I would assume this is also the cause of more noticeable anxiety and depression. This is why it is so important to start the process at a stable point and to get stable you must take it everyday. I'm not gonna lie. You will still experience some W/D. No one walks away from this without experiencing some level of discomfort. Google the Thomas recipe. It will give you some great items and instructions on using them to help alleviate some of the discomfort. You can start the vitamins immediately so
    that you have them on board when you jump. Exercise is
    the best way to get your
    natural endorphines going again. It took you a long time to get to this point and it doesn't go away over night. PLEASE PLEASE follow the process!!! I know you want this over but what are a few more days if it gives you the best odds of success. You said yourself you have seen a lot if horror stories on here. Don't put yourself through it. Go with what is proven to work. Peace and light to you. YOU CAN DO THIS!
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  24. #24
    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessWhammy View Post
    Okay. One thing at a time. LOL. Take the 12.5 EVERYDAY AT THE SAME TIME for at least 4 days until you feel very stable and comfortable. It may take a few days longer to get to that level of comfort. Even if it takes 10 days, that is okay! You MUST reach this stage before you start to skip. This is a process. Skipping steps WILL make the W/D worse!!! After you are stable at 12.5 you will have your first skip. Take your last daily dose, wait 48 hours. Take your next dose wait 72 hours. Take your last dose and jump. By continuing to wait 48 hours between doses you are keeping yourself in a state of constant withdrawal. I would assume this is also the cause of more noticeable anxiety and depression. This is why it is so important to start the process at a stable point and to get stable you must take it everyday. I'm not gonna lie. You will still experience some W/D. No one walks away from this without experiencing some level of discomfort. Google the Thomas recipe. It will give you some great items and instructions on using them to help alleviate some of the discomfort. You can start the vitamins immediately so
    that you have them on board when you jump. Exercise is
    the best way to get your
    natural endorphines going again. It took you a long time to get to this point and it doesn't go away over night. PLEASE PLEASE follow the process!!! I know you want this over but what are a few more days if it gives you the best odds of success. You said yourself you have seen a lot if horror stories on here. Don't put yourself through it. Go with what is proven to work. Peace and light to you. YOU CAN DO THIS!
    Ok that makes sense on why this is drawing out. I woke up with RLS so I took the .125 and I am going to do exactly what you said. I am gonna stop trying to rush this process. I don't know why I didn't just listen the first time u guys said it but kept thinking I was almost thru it. Silly me to not listen bcuz I know u guys know more then me! Woke up with worst migraine this morning but I have a history of them and if it's from the sub WD I should be able to stable it back out since I will be taking one every 24 hrs. I think I will stay on that for two weeks if need be, who knows maybe less or more I'll just wait til I feel back to normal and start the skipping process. Thank you so much for even dealing with me. I promise I wasn't trying to be stubborn, just kept thinking it was a setback but now I realize I am the set back! Ok today a new day, I am off to work. I will keep u all posted on my progress! Gonna research the Thomas recipe and buy the stuff today after work and get started on that as well. Thank u thank u thank u!!

  25. #25
    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    My- Don't be to hard on yourself. Once we decide to quit we want to get it over with. We have all been there. Some of us have made several attempts before succeeding. Like Randy said, it's not a race. Before you jump you may want to get some Calmes Forte for RLS. You will find it in the health food section. A lot if people on here said it really helps. I am so proud of you for getting as far as you have. You will be so happy when you leave the beast of addiction behind. Please keep posting on your progress and emotions. Think positive thoughts and remind yourself everyday why you want to quit and visualize yourself free from this monster. Have a good day Mychick.
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    TolikG is offline Senior Member
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    Sorry Mvchick, just realized U asked me a question. When I sfopped subs, I had stomach issues for a few days (Immodium), and minor anxiety. I had to take some other drugs here and there but mostly amino acids: L-Theanine, Tyrosine and Trypthopan. All help with anxiety, depression and lack of energy. Hope it helps. Just to reiterate: WD from 0.25 sub was a walk in a park compared to a full blown oxy WD I've yet to experience.
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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Thanks for answering back and sounds good! I just like to hear everyone's experiences. So I just finally sat down and put my little cut up pieces aside and took my nail scissors as directed and did exactly as I was told above by Randy about cutting the strips precisely so that I knew exactly what I was getting. Once I kept cutting them in half and got 32 pieces (which equals .25) I got my so called "smidges" out and saw I had .50's!! So yes I was trying to jump from .50 and now I see why I was in WD! So I have them cut at .25 and I am gonna take them every day til I feel stable and no WD symptoms and then cut those in half. I think I'll take as long as I need in the shortest amount of time possible! Lol that make sense? Anyways I do feel this can be done comfortably now that I know WTH I'm doing! So thank u all! I am gonna keep u all posted! If I feel I need to take an xtra .25 from time to time how far does that set me back? Should I just wait and see if I even get to that point? I know my doses have been at .50 but that was every 48 hrs so should stay same and no symptoms I hope. Now that I'm taking every day again to let my body get use to that.
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    PrincessWhammy is offline Junior Member
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    Good job My! Do not take any extra as it will keep you from becoming stable. Take the .25 daily and once you become stable (usualy 4-6 days) cut down to 12.5 abd again take until stable ( 4+ days) Then start your skip. You got this. Keep posting. Like you, many people read these without ever commenting so be assured many that you don't see are being encouraged by your story and are cheering for you!

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    mvchick78 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessWhammy View Post
    Good job My! Do not take any extra as it will keep you from becoming stable. Take the .25 daily and once you become stable (usualy 4-6 days) cut down to 12.5 abd again take until stable ( 4+ days) Then start your skip. You got this. Keep posting. Like you, many people read these without ever commenting so be assured many that you don't see are being encouraged by your story and are cheering for you!
    Thanks Princess Whammy!

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvchick78 View Post
    Thanks for answering back and sounds good! I just like to hear everyone's experiences. So I just finally sat down and put my little cut up pieces aside and took my nail scissors as directed and did exactly as I was told above by Randy about cutting the strips precisely so that I knew exactly what I was getting. Once I kept cutting them in half and got 32 pieces (which equals .25) I got my so called "smidges" out and saw I had .50's!! So yes I was trying to jump from .50 and now I see why I was in WD! So I have them cut at .25 and I am gonna take them every day til I feel stable and no WD symptoms and then cut those in half. I think I'll take as long as I need in the shortest amount of time possible! Lol that make sense? Anyways I do feel this can be done comfortably now that I know WTH I'm doing! So thank u all! I am gonna keep u all posted! If I feel I need to take an xtra .25 from time to time how far does that set me back? Should I just wait and see if I even get to that point? I know my doses have been at .50 but that was every 48 hrs so should stay same and no symptoms I hope. Now that I'm taking every day again to let my body get use to that.

    That cutting method works great doesn't it! I read about it here sometime back and used it myself. Long as you're careful you get the doses real close. Close enough anyway! Glad it worked out for you too!

    I've probably said this before, but it's always worth repeating - Take each dose for at LEAST 4 days. Sometimes, and in some people it takes the first couple of days for our bodies to accept the new dose. It's an adjustment period. The 4 days is a real good indicator if you're stable or not. After 4 days has passed and you're real stable, your body has accepted the new dose and you're feeling good on it then go ahead and reduce by 25% to the next amount.

    If you're NOT stable, not feeling so hot or comfortable then REMAIN where you are another day or two and see how you feel then. Same thing as before, if you're stable it's ok reduce, if not stay there a while longer until you ARE stable. It could take 4 days on any one dose and a week on another. That's perfectly NORMAL for everyone!

    When we reduce while NOT stable and feeling good on a dose is where problems begin and follow you all the way down as you taper further. Take your time, it's not a race to the finish line.

    Repeat that process getting as low in dose as you possibly can get. I suggest .25mg or LOWER! Plan on using the day skipping process at the end. You can change your mind later if you feel ready to jump, but that day skipping is a very important way to lessen any potential symptoms.

    Doing fab my friend!!!

    -Randy

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