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Failed suboxone detox
  1. #1
    kel2729 is offline New Member
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    Default Failed suboxone detox

    Hi all, so I've been on sub for 10 years now! Desperate to get off but can't take the anxiety. 8 days ago now I attempted jumping off from 2 mg per day strip with the suggestion of my bf taking Imodium high dose to help. Everything was going well until today when I stopped the Imodium. Tonight had severe wd worse than anything I ever experienced on h. I couldn't take the restless body anxiety and panic attack and after several hrs caved and took my sub again. I feel very defeated now. It seems to me that all the Imodium did was delay the wd setting in til I got off that! Cause wd should not be that severe on day 8! So my question is do y'all agree my mistake was in not tapering enough before cold turkey? I think I should try getting down to a tiny piece then stopping cause I was still taking a full 2 mg strip a day. Also any opinions on rapid detox? I'm seriously considering it. I'm willing to pay any financial price to get off this stuff! Any help is much appreciated!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-20-2015 at 12:29 AM.

  2. #2
    wasabisabi is offline Member
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    Hi Kel,

    Welcome to the forum. I'm sure others with more experience will jump in, but I would say yes, you hit the nail on the head there. Definitely need to taper down further first! Because sub has such a long half life, it stays in your body for a long time. Plus we keep dosing daily and it builds higher in our systems. So you really jumped off a much higher dose than 2mg. Not unusual to be feeling the worst around day 8 when jumping from a higher dose.

    Personally, I would never try rapid detox. I have heard too many first-hand horror stories. It can be a whole lot of pain.

    Many people here have successfully used the sub taper plan on the sticky at the top of the suboxone treatment board. I will post a link for you. Essentially, you reduce your dose by 25% every fifth day, or more. You don't reduce until you are stable on each new dose, and you need to dose at the same time every day. It can take days to stabilise (little to no withdrawal symptoms) - you will know when it happens. It takes commitment for a couple of months, but it's worth it, right? You will still get some withdrawal symptoms while tapering, but it's much more manageable.

    I am 5 weeks off suboxone tomorrow, following the taper plan outlined above. And I feel good!! I was on it for around 12 years. Now I wonder why I didn't do this earlier! Easy to say in hindsight I guess

    Let us know what you decide. You will get support.
    Pixiepoxie and niecer like this.

  3. #3
    wasabisabi is offline Member
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    Here is the link to the taper plan (scroll past the induction).

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html
    Pixiepoxie likes this.

  4. #4
    Pixiepoxie is offline Senior Member
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    kel,

    Hi and welcome here to the forum. This is a really great place for support and many successful stories using the Suboxone taper method on here that Wasabbi is referring to.

    I am currently tapering myself, and am down to .375mg about to drop to .25mg.

    Jumping from 2mg is a high dose to jump from (as Wasab said your actually jumping from much higher than that because of the way it builds up in your system) and you would certainly have much better luck following the taper plan on here.

    What I can PROMISE you from personal experience is that I would NEVER recommend rapid detox.

    NEVER.

    I thought hey, sedated detox...sounds perfect.

    Costly, but in my addictive thinking mind, I wanted a quick fix, and could afford it, so why not take the "easy" route.

    After all, everything I read, including all the "testimonials" made it sound so simple. Makes me think of the saying "if it sounds too good to be true...."

    I think it is safe to say that all addicts fear withdrawal. This place/program promises painless peaceful withdrawal and wa-la you are suppose to wake up opiate free and no suffering. Uh...not so fast.

    Here was my experience:

    I flew to LA to go the Waismann detox facility. I continued to medicate myself the entire way there. I was definitely going to take advantage of taking all I could while I still could...after all, I was soon going to be "clean"

    They even have a black suited driver in a black limousine pick you up at LAX. Bottled water in the back, ah so glamorous...

    They escort you right to the hospital (the "procedure" is performed in an ICU specifically dedicated to this treatment at an accredited hospital due to danger of procedure). Upon assessment completion, all of your possessions/cell phone etc. are taken away, and you are hooked up to an IV and given an IV drip of morphine to keep you comfortable until your procedure. The morphine dose is just barely enough to keep you from moderate withdrawal, at least that was how it was for me. I was NOT comfortable at all. Part of this may have been because from nearly every direction in the special rapid detox ICU I could here severe vomiting, retching, crying, wailing, screaming from the other patients who were at various stages of the procedure....I was TERRIFIED.

    So there I lay, hooked to the dripping IV of Morphine scared sh**l***! I wanted to pace, but they wouldn't let me out of the bed. Additionally, almost ALL of the staff spoke spanish to each other in front of me, acting as if I didn't exist. I started asking to please make a phone call. I begged to use my phone. I desperately wanted the reassurance from family back home. I would ask, in English, as I don't speak Spanish, and I would either be ignored or told "soon" I was sweating, cramping, nauseated, and could not sit still. My panic was rising by the second. The emotional suffering was immense.

    I was never given a phone to use, was not allowed to pace or get up. You stay on the IV Morphine over night and then your procedure is usually the next morning. If I could have ran, I would have. I felt like a prisoner in a foreign country. I did not care about the $20,000.

    After a horrific night, I was prepped for the procedure. They still had not allowed me one phone call. I have never felt so alone in all my life, to this day. They pad the bed entirely with huge thick blue bumpers, absorbant pads are placed under you so when you lose your bowels it is easier to clean up. Thru all of this, I can still hear the wailing, puking, crying, begging others all around me. They have you start counting backwards, and in an instant you are out...in (what seems to be) the next instant you are WIDE AWAKE and feel like every cell and fiber of your being are screaming in agony.

    Because what just happened is all the opiates in your brain were just violently ripped off of their receptor sites and now you are completely raw. Bowel movements flying literally, vomiting, cramping, RLS, ANXIETY, ....it is being slammed into absolute horrific precipitated withdrawal, and you wake up in this state. Yes, you are "asleep" while they rip the opiates off of your receptors...that is true. However, in order for this to be even REMOTELY painless, they would need to leave you in a coma for weeks if not longer, and even then, your body would not be producing it's own endorphins because you would have been laying in a bed in a coma.

    The reality is, there is NO easy way, NO fast way. They take your money, and you are put thru absolute misery. And in my case, the refusal of the nurses and staff to speak English to me only increased my anxiety. In the end, the opiates ARE out of your system, but the pain, the withdrawal, is all still there in it's rawest form.

    Please do yourself a favor, never try rapid detox.

    You can use the taper method on here, and get so much support in the process.

    Post often, it really does help. I'll try to watch for an update.

    Forward and Onward Troops!

  5. #5
    Pixiepoxie is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabisabi View Post
    Hi Kel,

    Welcome to the forum. I'm sure others with more experience will jump in, but I would say yes, you hit the nail on the head there. Definitely need to taper down further first! Because sub has such a long half life, it stays in your body for a long time. Plus we keep dosing daily and it builds higher in our systems. So you really jumped off a much higher dose than 2mg. Not unusual to be feeling the worst around day 8 when jumping from a higher dose.

    Personally, I would never try rapid detox. I have heard too many first-hand horror stories. It can be a whole lot of pain.

    Many people here have successfully used the sub taper plan on the sticky at the top of the suboxone treatment board. I will post a link for you. Essentially, you reduce your dose by 25% every fifth day, or more. You don't reduce until you are stable on each new dose, and you need to dose at the same time every day. It can take days to stabilise (little to no withdrawal symptoms) - you will know when it happens. It takes commitment for a couple of months, but it's worth it, right? You will still get some withdrawal symptoms while tapering, but it's much more manageable.

    I am 5 weeks off suboxone tomorrow, following the taper plan outlined above. And I feel good!! I was on it for around 12 years. Now I wonder why I didn't do this earlier! Easy to say in hindsight I guess

    Let us know what you decide. You will get support.
    Wasab,

    You are so correct in that rapid detox can be a whole lot of pain!

    I went through this in LA several years ago! Horrible, horrible, decision.

    For anybody considering this, please read the post I wrote on this thread about my experience. Nightmare.

    Forward and Onward Troops!

  6. #6
    wasabisabi is offline Member
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    Ugh. Oh Pixie, you poor thing! That description has my stomach doing flip flops and raised my blood pressure. I feel sick.

    What you describe is pretty much what I have heard from other people who did it. I don't even think there is a market for it here anymore. I think word got out quickly!
    Pixiepoxie likes this.

  7. #7
    kel2729 is offline New Member
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    Pixie and wasabi,

    Thank you so much for telling your experience. That sounds absolutely horrifying and to imagine having paid for such an ordeal!! So that's out of the question. My concern about the taper is that I'm still going to eventually have to deal with the wd. Is it really that much more bearable of a wd after tapering than what I'm already going thru? Cause I'd rather not prolong the inevitable. I only took that one dose of sub last night and now have resumed loperamide hoping it didn't set me back completely in the detox scheme. I figure I just won't start coming off Imodium until after 10 days has passed this time since that seems to be the peak. The other symptoms are bearable it's just the peak restless legs and this time worst in my arms which I had never gone thru before just legs! I also just ordered kratom and plan to use as little as possible.

  8. #8
    davepeerson is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi kel2729....First of all...Welcome....You have come to a Great Place for Support...and Advice!! I was on opiates for over 10 years...Large Amounts....Then Suboxone for the next 3 years....They started Me at 24 mg a day...Unbelievable amounts...But I knew Nothing back then....Make a Long story Short....I was finally able to make the Jump OFF the "BEAST"...at .5mg x twice a day....For a total of 1mg a Day.....5 in the am....and another .5 in the pm....That's as low as I could go....But I also stayed on that low dose for quite awhile....seems like it was at least a few weeks, if not a month.....
    I have Now been clean for 2 years and 8 months....plus some days....My advice to you would be to try and taper lower than 2mg.....But it is Your Journey.....If you can stay off them now....and use that loperamide....So be it??? I am not sure using that loperamide for 10 days is a good idea....but then again I am NO expert!! Good luck....and whatever you decide....Keep Posting...It saved Me when the going got Tough!! Stay Strong Just For Today!!..
    Pixiepoxie likes this.

  9. #9
    Pixiepoxie is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kel2729 View Post
    Pixie and wasabi,

    Thank you so much for telling your experience. That sounds absolutely horrifying and to imagine having paid for such an ordeal!! So that's out of the question. My concern about the taper is that I'm still going to eventually have to deal with the wd. Is it really that much more bearable of a wd after tapering than what I'm already going thru? Cause I'd rather not prolong the inevitable. I only took that one dose of sub last night and now have resumed loperamide hoping it didn't set me back completely in the detox scheme. I figure I just won't start coming off Imodium until after 10 days has passed this time since that seems to be the peak. The other symptoms are bearable it's just the peak restless legs and this time worst in my arms which I had never gone thru before just legs! I also just ordered kratom and plan to use as little as possible.
    kel2729,

    Glad to see you posted again.

    I'm so thankful you are NOT considering the rapid detox.

    I think what dave says is true, it's your journey...please keep posting and reading. Your attitude and being positive will serve you well in the days ahead.

    You CAN do this! I'm cheering for you and will continue to watch for updates.

    Are you able to take frequent hot baths? That really helped me, and I continue to take them if I'm having a rough day.

    Forward and Onward Troops!
    wasabisabi likes this.

  10. #10
    wasabisabi is offline Member
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    Kel

    I only just saw your update from the other day. So what did you decide and how are you now?

    For what it's worth. Yes, I do think that tapering further will reduce the symptoms considerably at the jump point. But whatever you decide, we'll support you.

    If you are still on the detox train....Congratulations! Force yourself to do exercise. Keep yourself distracted (friends, movies, books, shopping, cooking, puzzles, reading threads on the forum etc etc). Hot baths. And music. Lots of music that makes you want to dance around the house.

    Good luck!

  11. #11
    Lov3Ly is offline New Member
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    I literally was just looking at flights to California to do rapid detox, on another internet tab , then I scroll back to this one to see if anyone had responded to my post about what to do IF you put yourself into PW trying to use subs- OMG I am so glad I saw this!! That is terrifying!! And thankfully, I saw that sticky post with the induction/taper method & now I'm going to look for the COWS worksheet... Tomorrow will my 1st day on subs & am SO very nervous!! Thank youuu for sharing this! I'll take my chances w/ subs... This definitely kept from trying rapid detox!!--- yikes I'm new, this was in response to pixies story of rapid detox, I'm sorry!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-23-2015 at 08:03 PM.

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