Brief history started with an injury, you know the story, vics, oxy, or whatever opiate prescription I could find for about 4-5 yrs 20-30 pills a day always trying to get a petintiator drug to go with it. I quit before I was ready but suboxone didn't allow me to get high so in three years of maintaining a life of suboxone first two consisted of 24mgs a day (probably too high I Know now) but that set the standard. Weaned to 12mgs of sub, then tryed to kick, 5 days of hell couldn't take it called doc and got back on subs. I maintained for another 2 yrs 12mgs and weaned down on my own to 8mgs. I work in the health field and actually during those five years went to college and graduated with a 3.6 gpa. I had surgery on my knee on 11/24/09 and was very ashamed to have to tell the surgen who I know from work that I was taking suboxone. I decided after that conversation I was done. I decide how can I be on a opiate dependancy drug that is an opiate (very strong opiate) and consider myself clean. I approve of all use of suboxone for those who need it, and the miracle it provided for me, was the exit it gave to me out of the addiction life style. Use it as long as you need to, beat that lifestyle or you will migrate back to your drug of choice. It is a functional drug for people with un-functional lifestyles. When you start too meet goals that were impossible while on your DOC the reward is great. I have been off suboxone for only 12 days and my main complaint is leg pain, the first 5-7 days are bad but, once you decide to quit you will know it. I have never craved once during my detox for an opiate thanks to suboxone breaking the addiction lifestyle. I probably could have quit sooner but, I guess it has to be on our own terms. I don't think i am clean just because I have been of subs for 12 days, but I don't crave the high anymore and that makes me feel clean. That being said I have used tramadol for my leg pains but never more than I have been prescribed and only for about the last three days. Please listen to Thomas and The Musicman they have a great knowledge that doctors can not give you, unless the doctor has w/d which is probably alot more common than you might think. That being said please see your doctor before trying anything you have read on any board. This forum is a great tool for people riding the edge. Thomas and Musicman you too have the same kind of education I have research, health degree, and real life (this being the one that is the most important and when I think about it, it was more expensive than college hahaha) You two have really helped alot of people including myself THANKS from me and my family.