very concerned...looking for advice

[Momofanaddict]

My daughter, who is 20yo, detoxed from heroin in July. She did it in a facility without suboxone. Since that time, she has used every few weeks, for a day at a a time. She used heroin very regularly for the three months leading up to her detox. Before that time, she was very active in AA and had been for three years. Since the detox, she has not embraced the program. It seems like she is waiting for a magic pill to come along to fix her life. She is prescribed an SSRI, an SNRI (both names I can't think of right now) and klonopin (up to 2nd per day). She decided that she needed suboxone to help with her cravings.

About three weeks ago, she went to a suboxone doc and was prescribed 24mg per day. I had not done any research prior to that time, but now see that is a high dose. She was not in withdrawal and weighs about 90 pounds. There was no in-office induction like I have read about here, just a script and a pamphlet. It was very obvious to all who saw her that she was whacked out of her mind, slurring her words, having trouble having a conversation, sleeping many hours, night and day,
etc. At her second appt a week later, I told her to ask about reducing the dose. Who knows if she was telling me the truth, but she says the doc told her he couldn't lower it.. At first she didn't believe us when we told her she looked high, but finally some third party told her the same thung and she decided to get off the suboxone. The doc told her to cut the dose by one half to one strip every two weeks. She
dropped 8mg about a week ago, still taking 16 mg per day, and has been very sick for the last two days. Could that have anything to do with the meds? Also, she sleeps at least 18 hours a day and it seems to be getting worse. She has no interest in anything. I am at a complete loss about what to do. I plan to go to the doc with her on Tuesday, but am concerned that maybe I should be taking her to seek medical attention now.

Sorry this is so long, but it is very difficult to talk to my family and friends about this. They all have great ideas, if we were talking about a logical, rational person.
However, we are talking about an addict an there is no logic or rationality in her world. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Jillynnie]

My daughter, who is 20yo, detoxed from heroin in July. She did it in a facility without suboxone. Since that time, she has used every few weeks, for a day at a a time. She used heroin very regularly for the three months leading up to her detox. Before that time, she was very active in AA and had been for three years. Since the detox, she has not embraced the program. It seems like she is waiting for a magic pill to come along to fix her life. She is prescribed an SSRI, an SNRI (both names I can't think of right now) and klonopin (up to 2nd per day). She decided that she needed suboxone to help with her cravings.

About three weeks ago, she went to a suboxone doc and was prescribed 24mg per day. I had not done any research prior to that time, but now see that is a high dose. She was not in withdrawal and weighs about 90 pounds. There was no in-office induction like I have read about here, just a script and a pamphlet. It was very obvious to all who saw her that she was whacked out of her mind, slurring her words, having trouble having a conversation, sleeping many hours, night and day,
etc. At her second appt a week later, I told her to ask about reducing the dose. Who knows if she was telling me the truth, but she says the doc told her he couldn't lower it.. At first she didn't believe us when we told her she looked high, but finally some third party told her the same thung and she decided to get off the suboxone. The doc told her to cut the dose by one half to one strip every two weeks. She
dropped 8mg about a week ago, still taking 16 mg per day, and has been very sick for the last two days. Could that have anything to do with the meds? Also, she sleeps at least 18 hours a day and it seems to be getting worse. She has no interest in anything. I am at a complete loss about what to do. I plan to go to the doc with her on Tuesday, but am concerned that maybe I should be taking her to seek medical attention now.

Sorry this is so long, but it is very difficult to talk to my family and friends about this. They all have great ideas, if we were talking about a logical, rational person.
However, we are talking about an addict an there is no logic or rationality in her world. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Dear Mom,
I am so sorry for you and your daughter! Do me a favor. Go to the 'Need To Talk" section of this forum. You will find a thread titled "ADDICTION..." and the thread is by Kathleen Hockey (I believe). It has like 5 yellow stars beside it. She has been posting for over 3 years now and she has a daughter that is 20 and on heroin. I wanted to point this out to you as well as a thread by Liza who also has a daughter struggling with heroin and has appeared to successfully gotten on and now off of subs with the help of Robert_325. If you start a thread on that site: Need to Talk: and address it to Robert he will see it and be able to help you. Also, the other ladies will see it and be able to support you from the standpoint of having extremely similar experiences.
I am supporting you with just my words and hope to see you start the thread there as they have recently revamped the site and sometimes these posts don't get seen as much as on Need To Talk side.
Big hugs to you and hope to see you soon.

God bless you and your family,
Jillynnie

[Denny_D]

My daughter, who is 20yo, detoxed from heroin in July. She did it in a facility without suboxone. Since that time, she has used every few weeks, for a day at a a time. She used heroin very regularly for the three months leading up to her detox. Before that time, she was very active in AA and had been for three years. Since the detox, she has not embraced the program. It seems like she is waiting for a magic pill to come along to fix her life. She is prescribed an SSRI, an SNRI (both names I can't think of right now) and klonopin (up to 2nd per day). She decided that she needed suboxone to help with her cravings.

About three weeks ago, she went to a suboxone doc and was prescribed 24mg per day. I had not done any research prior to that time, but now see that is a high dose. She was not in withdrawal and weighs about 90 pounds. There was no in-office induction like I have read about here, just a script and a pamphlet. It was very obvious to all who saw her that she was whacked out of her mind, slurring her words, having trouble having a conversation, sleeping many hours, night and day,
etc. At her second appt a week later, I told her to ask about reducing the dose. Who knows if she was telling me the truth, but she says the doc told her he couldn't lower it.. At first she didn't believe us when we told her she looked high, but finally some third party told her the same thung and she decided to get off the suboxone. The doc told her to cut the dose by one half to one strip every two weeks. She
dropped 8mg about a week ago, still taking 16 mg per day, and has been very sick for the last two days. Could that have anything to do with the meds? Also, she sleeps at least 18 hours a day and it seems to be getting worse. She has no interest in anything. I am at a complete loss about what to do. I plan to go to the doc with her on Tuesday, but am concerned that maybe I should be taking her to seek medical attention now.

Sorry this is so long, but it is very difficult to talk to my family and friends about this. They all have great ideas, if we were talking about a logical, rational person.
However, we are talking about an addict an there is no logic or rationality in her world. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Mom ..... I'm not going to get into the particulars, but your Daughter needs to reduce her dose of the Sub right away. The reason she is feeling the way she does right now is because of the extremely high dose of Sub.

Please have her reduce the dose to 8mg total per day right away. She may take this in 2 separate doses of 4mg each. Have her remain on this dose until she gets stable, then she needs to reduce her dose by 25% every 4 days or so. Then just keep repeating the process until she gets the dose down to an amount under 1mg. Then we will go from there.

It is imperative that she reduce her dose now. Her system is so shocked by the large amount of Sub right now. No wonder she is sleeping so much. Subs are EXTREMELY strong and she has just too much in her system. Please, most here will tell you that I know what I'm talking about with Subs.

Just please have her reduce the dose to 8mg total per day. Either in 1 dose of 8mg, or in 2 separate doses of 4mg each. I will promise you that if she follows these directions she will become adjusted to the Subs real soon. and everything will be just fine.

I just can't stress enough just how strong and powerful these things are! They are 30-40 times more powerful than Morphine! I abused drugs for over 35 years and used the Subs to get myself clean. They are an excellent tool to use to get off of other drugs. But there is a right way and a wrong way to use them. And your Daughter is now using them the wrong way!

Not her fault, it's the Doctor's fault. Most Doctor's have no idea of how to prescribe and use Subs. That's a fact! Read around this forum and you will see for yourself. It's very difficult for you or anyone to come here looking for advice and hear that. But I can guarantee you that I am right! You might not trust someone like me on the internet, but if you had the courage to come and ask for advice, the least you could do is try to accept what I am saying just may be true!

So please again I ask you to reduce her dose to the 8mg right away. If she has taken more than 8mg already today, then just begin tomorrow. You will be so glad you listened. I give you my word! Hope this helps. God Bless.....Denny

p.s. Please also make sure that your Daughter takes the Sub at the same time each day. This is to get a stable amount of medication in her system at all times. Robert's computer has crashed the last I knew, so he may be back soon.

[Denny_D]

I'm going to put the link below of the system that we use here on the forum. It has literally helped thousands to get on and off of the Subs correctly. If you would like my help I will be around. I wish you the best! God Bless.....Denny

Sub Induction and Taper Plan
http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[Momofanaddict]

Thank you both very much for replying. I showed my daughter your post and she went down to 8mg on Saturday. She is still sleeping a tremendous amount, but am guessing (hoping) that will get a bit better over the next couple of days. Denny, my questions are...should she drop to six tomorrow which I the fourth day, or stay at 8 for four days and drop on the fifth? She has plenty of strips, but they are 8mg. I am wondering if she should go back to the doc and get a script for a lower dosage. Actually, I don't even really know if there is one. Is there a 2 mg strip? Also, I am not sure if she should even go back to the same doc. I discovered that he actually prescribed 32mg per day. After reading all i read here, i think that qualifies as negligence. Thankfully she had the sense to stop at 24. One very big plus is that she wants to get off this stuff. She doesn't like what it is doing to her.

Jillynnie, thank you for your support. I have four other children, including three under seven (one of whom is an infant). My hands are so full that some days I'm not sure how we all get through!

And Denny, not exactly sure why, but I do trust you and would love your help through this phase!

Thank you both again.

[Catrina]

Mom,

My heart hurts for you and your daughter. I know both sides of addiction. I am a recovering addict and my son is abusing. I so know the feeling and on top of that you have quite a load to carry aside from your daughter. She can get clean and stay that way. I've seen it in myself and all over this Forum.

You a really smart person to trust Denny. He's been here for a while (My best Denny, hope you're beginning to feel better.) It's OK to ask questions, including the easily to be misinterpreted..."why". Denny has the best intentions, the best advice from experience and won't ever lead you down the wrong road. The question "why" doesn't necessarily indicate you are questioning his wisdom, it means, well it means "why"! Sometimes we simply want to know. That's all.

Good luck.

Peace,

Cat

[Denny_D]

Thank you both very much for replying. I showed my daughter your post and she went down to 8mg on Saturday. She is still sleeping a tremendous amount, but am guessing (hoping) that will get a bit better over the next couple of days. Denny, my questions are...should she drop to six tomorrow which I the fourth day, or stay at 8 for four days and drop on the fifth? She has plenty of strips, but they are 8mg. I am wondering if she should go back to the doc and get a script for a lower dosage. Actually, I don't even really know if there is one. Is there a 2 mg strip? Also, I am not sure if she should even go back to the same doc. I discovered that he actually prescribed 32mg per day. After reading all i read here, i think that qualifies as negligence. Thankfully she had the sense to stop at 24. One very big plus is that she wants to get off this stuff. She doesn't like what it is doing to her.

Jillynnie, thank you for your support. I have four other children, including three under seven (one of whom is an infant). My hands are so full that some days I'm not sure how we all get through!

And Denny, not exactly sure why, but I do trust you and would love your help through this phase!

Thank you both again.

Mom ..... stay with the 8mg film strips. Yes they do make a 2mg film, but the cost is nearly the same. It is really east to cut the 8mg film into the exact mg you will need. We will get into that later.

Have your Daughter reduce to the 6mg tomorrow and stay there for 4 days or so to make sure she is stable. Then in about 4 days she can reduce that dose by 25% to a new dose of 4.5mg. She may take this in 2 separate doses of 2.5mg in the morning, and 2mg in the afternoon. Or in 1 single dose of 4.5mg around the noon hour. Her choice. Please be sure to take the Sub at the same time each day to get the Sub in her system at all times.

Now please remember that I am still recovering from 4 surgeries in about 15 days so I may not be on the forum at all times. I am still in fighting this staph infection that keeps knocking me down. There are several others that will be of help to you.

All you really need to do is to read and follow the taper plan in the link that I provided to you earlier. It's in the other post by me. It spells it out real clear for you to follow. If you have any questions please post and I will try to get to you as soon as I can.

You are doing real well right now. You seem to be really committed to following through. It helps so much when someone tries to keep doing the next right thing.. I realize how difficult it is to trust someone on the internet, but I can assure you that I only have your best interest in mind. I have no reason to lie to you or anyone, or steer you in the wrong direction. I have nothing to gain by it.

This induction and taper program has been used right here to help over a thousand people get on and off of the Subs completely. You may have read some of the success stories yourself as there are many. You are in very good hands I can assure you again! God Bless.....Denny