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Some Suboxone Advice Please
  1. #1
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Default Some Suboxone Advice Please

    Hey Guys,

    I am new here and new to Sub(yesterday to be exact). I was taking Norco 10/325 for about 2 years and Percocet 10/325 for about 6 months. I would take about 80mg of Norco and 20mg of Percocet a day for some buldging disks I had in my back. Some days I would take 40mg of Percocet and 60mg Norcos. I actually quit the Percs about 5 days before I saw the doc and went through the whole lethargic feeling from doing so(thank God I had the Norcos to help me transition). When I saw my new Suboxone doctor yesterday he gave me 1mg of Sub about 4 hours after my last dose of Norcos and the induction went well. In fact he gave me another 1mg before I left his office and it made me feel great. The cold, clamy and tingly feeling in my feet went away and all. Last night I was told to take another 4mg of the Sub film before I went to bed. I only took 2mg and it almost seemed as if my breathing was suppressed. Is this normal to go through? It is possible that I didnt take enough and was having a slight panic attack I guess. I'm just curious if you guys went through the same thing that I did? I know the Sub is probably stronger than the Norcos and don't wanna OD myself you know. My wife works nights and I'm home with the kids. Not that I would want to OD anyways, but, witth the kids here I worry the most. Your insights on this issue are greatly appreciated. I just can't wait to be normal again and don't want to overdue the treatment process and don't want to create some crazy Sub addiction either. Thanks in advance!

    ~Regards~

  2. #2
    Proud2BClean is offline New Member
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    Congrats on quitting the painkiller addiction. I am not a Doctor, so please don't take my advice to heart but I'll tell you my story very quickly. I was addicted to percocet & vicodin for about 3 years. At one point taking 5 Vicodins at once...and all in all taking about 15 a day. I went on suboxone. They gave me 60 melting strips for under your tongue. I was told to take one in the morning & one at night. The strength was ( 8mg / 2mg ). It definitely worked for withdrawal symptoms from opiates. I noticed when I took them I would sweat like crazy at first, and then it would go away and I'd feel great for hour upon hour. I don't recall any breathing problems though, and with something like that I'd call that Doc immediately and alert him of this because maybe it's interacting with something else your taking. You never know. Like I said I'm not a Doc, I'm just giving my advice and opinion, so take it as you will.
    When I first began taking them about a year and a half ago, they used to actually make me feel like I just took a painkiller. I had that happy, talkative, and warm feeling. As time progressed, I didn't get that feeling anymore, and I needed it to just feel normal. I'll be dead honest with ya, the stuff is addictive. If you run out of it because Yeah I undertand took too many or you lost some, you will go through withdrawal HELL. Worse than perc or vike withdrawal. Cold sweats, cranky, not wanting to talk, not wanting to eat, it was horrible for me. I had lost mine by leaving them in a safe in a hotel room. I called the hotel and of course they were gone because the next person who rented the room most likely took em. It was Hell on Earth for me. I couldn't sleep for anything. Tossing, turning, your hot, then cold, then hot again, it's like having the strongest flu ever. The worst part is the mental part, I could care less if it only made my body ache, but that's not the case...your thoughts are racing, like I said you don't even wanna speak to anyone.
    I'm weening down , and it's very difficult for me to do but I realize I must do as the Doc says so I can come off the stuff eventually with no withdrawals. But as I always say...I did this to myself. Like the Creed song goes, "I created my own prison." I would recommend calling your Doc about the breathing problem, but that's your choice. I take Xanax with the suboxone, and also Gabapentin, which is a miracle drug for depression, also used for treating seizures and nerve pain...it's non narcotic. Its a long road my friend, but you'll get through it. Don't let some chemical take over your life.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 01-19-2013 at 02:47 PM.

  3. #3
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey there "NC",
    First off let me Welcome you to the Forum, and your decision to get Clean...
    In answer to one of your questions, "I only took 2mg and it almost seemed as if my breathing was suppressed. Is this normal to go through?"
    Any kind of Opiate can/will affect or suppress your breathing...as for "Normal" What is Normal?? LOL..But yes, it certainly can affect your Respiratory functions.

    Reading your post I'm trying to figure out if your goal is to get 100% Clean, to get off your Percs/Norcos/etc for good? Is this your Goal? You were not entirely clear of your intent, so I just wanted to Clarify that if I could.

    If your intent IS to get 100% Clean, then Here is a "Suboxone Taper Method" Written by one of our most Advanced, and Trusted Members "Robert.... Here is the Link to it..http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    Please read it thru Carefully, and follow it to the Letter! Keep in mind everyone is different, and that the Tapering Robert refers to, (Dropping 25% every 4 days) is not "Set in Stone" You have to listen to what your body is telling you....if you dont feel "Stable" after the 4 days, wait another day, or even 2 before you drop....the plan is to GET clean, and its Not a Race!

    And Yes, you CAN get addicted to the Subs as well...they are "Opiates" and Very Strong ones at that! So the idea is to begin your SUbs Treatment at the Absolute "Lowest Effective Dose" (LED)
    The 4mgs the Doc had you take before bed was (in My Opinion) way to high....
    You say he gave you 1mg at his office and another 1mg before you left and you felt great! There is no Reason to take another 4mg before bed...
    In My Opinion I think you should stay at the 2mg/day from here on out...
    If you like split it into Twice a day....1mg at maybe 9am....and another 1mg at maybe 6pm...and thats IT!!! No more than that and see how you feel.
    Or you can just do the 2mgs once a day...your call...

    Subs have an Extremely long "Half Life" so a little bit goes a LONG way!
    Try staying on the 2mg/day and see how that works for you.....

    Im sure another member will pop in shortly with More advice, but for now...try to stick with the 2mg/day and lets see how that works for you OK???

    I'll check in on you later today!!

    Harry
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  4. #4
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your input guys. I would quote both of your replies, but, that would take a whole page. LOL. I really appreciate you two taking the time to write thorough responses. I was gonna edit my post and tell guys that yes it is my goal to be off all mind altering substances. I have been clean from meth and alcohol for 6 years as of Dec 23rd. I was sober for 4 years before I trusted my doctor and was handed my problem at hand. The new Sub doc actually dosed me at 8mg of Sub a day-4mg 2x a day(I left that out in my OP also, sorry). I too feel that is way too much. I'm not trying to trade one for the other. I really just want to use it as a little double edged crutch. One edge of the crutch is the masking of WD from my original scripts, the other edge is the one I don't wanna see....Sub addiction. I'm sorry, but , after I trusted one doctor and began watching the clock for my next dose I will not do it again. This new doc is telling me to "follow his program" and I will stay clean. I know how to stay clean, I just can't shut down for a cold turkey kick as I have kids and a house to take care of(stay at home dad). That's why I figured I would use a support network of peers that have been through this personally to see how they dealt with it. I'm more apt to listen to a bunch of people I don't know on the internet than I am a doctor who is getting kick backs for his scripts he writes. I mean, this guy wants me on 8mg for 2 weeks??? WTF? That's too long of a transition if you ask me. Harry, when I asked if it was normal, I guess I was asking have any of you felt the same thing? Was it ruled out to be anxiety? In my eyes, breathing issues aren't normal. Anxiety issues do make you feel like you are having breathing issues though.

    Also, I came into this yesterday telling myself I was only going to take what takes the pain and moods away from the WD process. I think right now the most I will take is going to be 3-4mg a day(2 if possible). I just took 1mg and it took my irritability away. Goal achieved!
    Last edited by NewChanges; 01-19-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  5. #5
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Proud2beClean was posting at the same time as I was, so let me touch on a few things he said....

    First off, "Proud" you are NOT Clean!!! Not by a Long Shot! Your Still taking Subs, AND Xanax! But it sounds like your Working to GET Clean, so for that KUDOS to you!!!
    Secondly I wouldn't be posting your Email Address on here....not a good idea Bro...

    And third, be careful on the Advice/Opinions you give, a lot of people posting here especially NEW Members take the advice/Opinions one gives "To Heart" and its NOT all Good Advice!!!
    8mgs of Subs is an ENORMOUS amount and is ABSOLUTELY Not Necessary especially to get Clean!!!
    If someone reading this took your advice/Opinions to heart and popped 8mgs of Subs initially it could send them into Precipitated Withdrawals which is very much like Oxy/Perc Withdrawals, but on STEROIDS!
    It is hands Down the WORSE thing you've ever been thru in your Life, I can Promise you that!

    Doctors have NO CLUE how to prescribe Subs for Drug Addiction...NO CLUE! They all want to "POUND you" with excessive AND Unnecessary amounts of Subs! They are not addicts, all they have to go by is what the Drug manufacturers recommend, and they want to keep you as a Patient as Long as Possible!
    Its Crazy! I know.....but Im telling you, the Docs have No clue when it comes to prescribing Subs!

    So In short, just be careful posting advice here man....not only is it Dangerous if you give "Bad Advice", (not saying your advice is bad...just uninformed) but it could hurt someone Seriously...and Im sure you dont want that on your Conscience!
    When New Members come here man, they are Scared, Sometimes in Severe Withdrawals, and not thinking clearly....they see stuff like "I took 8mgs of Subs, and felt Great" or, "I'm taking Xanax while on my Subs" ...thats ALL they see and immedatley think "Well, its ok for HIM so it should be OK for me".....and they end up in PWS or Worse!
    Follow me???
    Im not trying to "Break your Kahoonies" or be confrontational with you Bro....Not at All....We're all here to help, Im just asking for you to be VERY Careful about what you post...Ok???
    Thanks for understanding...

    And "NewChanges"...it is Absolutely NOT OK to start off on 8mgs of Subs...or 6, or even 4....You want the "Lowest Effective Dose" that it takes to get you "Stable"...PERIOD!
    So read thru the Taper Plan I gave you the link to...AND "Proud2BClean" you should read it as well Bro....
    Here it is again...http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
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  6. #6
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrySmooth View Post
    Proud2beClean was posting at the same time as I was, so let me touch on a few things he said....

    First off, "Proud" you are NOT Clean!!! Not by a Long Shot! Your Still taking Subs, AND Xanax! But it sounds like your Working to GET Clean, so for that KUDOS to you!!!
    Secondly I wouldn't be posting your Email Address on here....not a good idea Bro...

    And third, be careful on the Advice/Opinions you give, a lot of people posting here especially NEW Members take the advice/Opinions one gives "To Heart" and its NOT all Good Advice!!!
    8mgs of Subs is an ENORMOUS amount and is ABSOLUTELY Not Necessary especially to get Clean!!!
    If someone reading this took your advice/Opinions to heart and popped 8mgs of Subs initially it could send them into Precipitated Withdrawals which is very much like Oxy/Perc Withdrawals, but on STEROIDS!
    It is hands Down the WORSE thing you've ever been thru in your Life, I can Promise you that!

    Doctors have NO CLUE how to prescribe Subs for Drug Addiction...NO CLUE! They all want to "POUND you" with excessive AND Unnecessary amounts of Subs! They are not addicts, all they have to go by is what the Drug manufacturers recommend, and they want to keep you as a Patient as Long as Possible!
    Its Crazy! I know.....but Im telling you, the Docs have No clue when it comes to prescribing Subs!

    So In short, just be careful posting advice here man....not only is it Dangerous if you give "Bad Advice", (not saying your advice is bad...just uninformed) but it could hurt someone Seriously...and Im sure you dont want that on your Conscience!
    When New Members come here man, they are Scared, Sometimes in Severe Withdrawals, and not thinking clearly....they see stuff like "I took 8mgs of Subs, and felt Great" or, "I'm taking Xanax while on my Subs" ...thats ALL they see and immedatley think "Well, its ok for HIM so it should be OK for me".....and they end up in PWS or Worse!
    Follow me???
    Im not trying to "Break your Kahoonies" or be confrontational with you Bro....Not at All....We're all here to help, Im just asking for you to be VERY Careful about what you post...Ok???
    Thanks for understanding...

    And "NewChanges"...it is Absolutely NOT OK to start off on 8mgs of Subs...or 6, or even 4....You want the "Lowest Effective Dose" that it takes to get you "Stable"...PERIOD!
    So read thru the Taper Plan I gave you the link to...AND "Proud2BClean" you should read it as well Bro....
    Here it is again...http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    Harry,

    I don't believe for one second what he said was take 16mg to feel good. What he said is that is what was prescribed to him and it made him feel good, but, he did go on to say that it created a major dependency and was very clear about that in his paragraph about how it ????ed his life up. Anybody that read his post and got "take 16mg to feel good", should stay off the internet period. I have been and still am an active member of numerous forums and don't want to get into an internet brawl over backing him up, but, he also started his post saying he is not a doc and that I should call my doc about breathing problems. He also stated he wanted to share his own "story". I felt he was sharing his own experience and how it was not the right dose he was given(I'm sure most reading it would). Like I stated, I appreciate both of your insight.
    Last edited by NewChanges; 01-19-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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  7. #7
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey NC,
    In answer to your question, YES, I have had some breathing Problems from the Opiates...not so much on the Subs as I had with my Oxys...but I was taking 300, sometimes even 400mgs of Oxys a DAY! LOL...No DOUBT I had some breathing issues! Its a Miracle I am breathing NOW!
    I highly recommend you try to stay at 2mg/day if you can...maybe split the dose, 1mg at 9am, the other 1mg at 6pm (you can adjust the times to fit YOU) Whatever works for you....if you have some adverse symptoms...maybe kick that dose up 1.5mgs twice a day....but if they are just minor symptoms your having on the 2mg/day, and you can handle em...by all means stay at the 2mgs/day...no matter what you do, your GOING to have some Symptoms...its just the Nature of the Beast, but if its just some minor symptoms that you can handle...Stay at the 2mgs!!!
    Hope this Helps!
    Quote Originally Posted by NewChanges View Post
    Thanks for your input guys. I would quote both of your replies, but, that would take a whole page. LOL. I really appreciate you two taking the time to write thorough responses. I was gonna edit my post and tell guys that yes it is my goal to be off all mind altering substances. I have been clean from meth and alcohol for 6 years as of Dec 23rd. I was sober for 4 years before I trusted my doctor and was handed my problem at hand. The new Sub doc actually dosed me at 8mg of Sub a day-4mg 2x a day(I left that out in my OP also, sorry). I too feel that is way too much. I'm not trying to trade one for the other. I really just want to use it as a little double edged crutch. One edge of the crutch is the masking of WD from my original scripts, the other edge is the one I don't wanna see....Sub addiction. I'm sorry, but , after I trusted one doctor and began watching the clock for my next dose I will not do it again. This new doc is telling me to "follow his program" and I will stay clean. I know how to stay clean, I just can't shut down for a cold turkey kick as I have kids and a house to take care of(stay at home dad). That's why I figured I would use a support network of peers that have been through this personally to see how they dealt with it. I'm more apt to listen to a bunch of people I don't know on the internet than I am a doctor who is getting kick backs for his scripts he writes. I mean, this guy wants me on 8mg for 2 weeks??? WTF? That's too long of a transition if you ask me. Harry, when I asked if it was normal, I guess I was asking have any of you felt the same thing? Was it ruled out to be anxiety? In my eyes, breathing issues aren't normal. Anxiety issues do make you feel like you are having breathing issues though.

    Also, I came into this yesterday telling myself I was only going to take what takes the pain and moods away from the WD process. I think right now the most I will take is going to be 3-4mg a day(2 if possible). I just took 1mg and it took my irritability away. Goal achieved!

  8. #8
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Point Taken NC and I see what your saying...Your Absolutely right! I am Terribly sorry for not wording my post more effectively...I in NO way was trying to be Confrontational, (as I said in my post) but you have to understand, as I said before, people come here in desperation, sometimes in Severe Withdrawals, barely able to Type, and Mind Racing, and just Skim over Posts not getting the "Just" of them...Follow me? THats all I meant!
    I in NO way meant ANY Disrespect to "Proud2bClean"!
    Thanks for pointed this out to me NC!!! Point taken!
    Quote Originally Posted by NewChanges View Post
    Harry,

    I don't believe for one second what he said was take 16mg to feel good. What he said is that is what was prescribed to him and it made him feel good, but, he did go on to say that it created a major dependency and was very clear about that in his paragraph about how it ????ed his life up. Anybody that read his post and got "take 16mg to feel good", should stay off the internet period. I have been and still am an active member of numerous forums and don't want to get into an internet brawl over backing him up, but, he also started his post saying he is not a doc and that I should call my doc about breathing problems. He also stated he wanted to share his own "story". I felt he was sharing his own experience and how it was not the right dose he was given(I'm sure most reading it would). Like I stated, I appreciate both of your insight.

  9. #9
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrySmooth View Post
    Point Taken NC and I see what your saying...Your Absolutely right! I am Terribly sorry for not wording my post more effectively...I in NO way was trying to be Confrontational, (as I said in my post) but you have to understand, as I said before, people come here in desperation, sometimes in Severe Withdrawals, barely able to Type, and Mind Racing, and just Skim over Posts not getting the "Just" of them...Follow me? THats all I meant!
    I in NO way meant ANY Disrespect to "Proud2bClean"!
    Thanks for pointed this out to me NC!!! Point taken!


    I feel you. Just figured I would point out what I got out of it and hope others with the same questions do as well.
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  10. #10
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Thank You NC, I also hope you understand what I am saying...Thanks for your input and have a Great Day!
    Quote Originally Posted by NewChanges View Post
    I feel you. Just figured I would point out what I got out of it and hope others with the same questions do as well.

  11. #11
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    NC: Sometimes it's difficult to get the correct impressions across without being face to face. It is a good point that Harry makes that doctors sometimes give way too high of a dose to patients and then keep them on subs for a longer period of time than necessary. Subs are a tool to help addicts get clean, but they are often more powerful than the drugs we are detoxing from. It is also true that people become addicted to them. If you truly wish to be clean, follow Harry's advice and read the sub protocol he posted. One thing I noticed in your posts is that you say that you are taking an amount that will just abate symptoms. You need to get stable on the 2mg. you are on and then begin reducing from there. You should take your sub in no more than 2 doses and at the same time everyday. Reduce by 25% every 4-5 days, depending on when you become stable on your drops. Breathing issues? If those are bothersome, you need to see your doctor. Suboxone is an opiate and can depress the respiratory system, just like any other.
    You should NOT take xanax while on suboxone nor gabbapentin both block gabba receptors. If you get to a point in your drops when you begin to experience some discomfort there are supplements that will help you. Don't dismiss Harry's advice because he was a bit hard on proud2bclean: it is true that until you are off the subs you are NOT clean. We can help you with the sub taper and would be proud to cheer you on! Congratulations for taking the next right steps to becoming free and clean!

    Peace

    Iloerose
    Last edited by iloerose; 01-19-2013 at 10:13 PM.

  12. #12
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    NC: Sometimes it's difficult to get the correct impressions across without being face to face. It is a good point that Harry makes that doctors sometimes give way too high of a dose to patients and then keep them on subs for a longer period of time than necessary. Subs are a tool to help addicts get clean, but they are often more powerful than the drugs we are detoxing from. It is also true that people become addicted to them. If you truly wish to be clean, follow Harry's advice and read the sub protocol he posted. One thing I noticed in your posts is that you say that you are taking an amount that will just abate symptoms. You need to get stable on the 2mg. you are on and then begin reducing from there. You should take your sub in no more than 2 doses and at the same time everyday. Reduce by 25% every 4-5 days, depending on when you become stable on your drops. Breathing issues? If those are bothersome, you need to see your doctor. Suboxone is an opiate and can depress the respiratory system, just like any other.
    You should NOT take xanax while on suboxone nor gabbapentin both block gabba receptors. If you get to a point in your drops when you begin to experience some discomfort there are supplements that will help you. Don't dismiss Harry's advice because he was a bit hard on proud2bclean: it is true that until you are off the subs you are NOT clean. We can help you with the sub taper and would be proud to cheer you on! Congratulations for taking the next right steps to becoming free and clean!

    Peace

    Iloerose
    Thanks for your reply! I do not discard any good info because somebody came off the wrong way. I'm mature enough to take the good from the bad. Besides I totally understand that though it sounded like he was coming off sideways that it is the internet and it is hard to tell how he was trying to convey what he was saying. Back to my dose and first real day of just Sub. When I took the first 2 mg yesterday it was at noon and only 4 hours after my last dose of Norco, which did make me feel good for the time being. I did end up having to take another 2 mg last night because I was definitely feeling the WDs(i probably could have taken 1-1.5mg and fel fine). So I took a total of 4mg yesterday. When I woke up this morning, before I even posted a thread on here, I only took 1mg. I ended up having to take another .5 mg about 4 hours later because I did not feel comfortable at all. I started getting a headache and all that good stuff that comes along with WDs(it wasn't just a headache from the Sub either, it was accompanied by the joint pain and anxiety). I took another 1.5 mg about 2 hours ago and feel as if I could have taken .5mg less. I think tomorrow I will take 1.5mg in the morning and 1mg in the evening and that will be my dose for the first 7 days. I would have tried to stay at 2mg, but, after reading Robert's post I absorbed the fact that stabilization has to be comfortable or else the whole process will not be as smooth as it should be. 2.5mg is where I believe I will feel no WDs and is the "lowest effective dose". I made the switch to Sub with the whole mind set of less is more and told the doc that when he prescribed it to me. Even when I left his office with the 8mg a day dose I did not feel comfortable with it. The cool thing is if 2.5mg is where I'm comfortable I should have nough Sub to do the taper and be done without seeing the doc again. I'm going to be journaling the whole process and will present it to my doc when I see him in two weeks to let him know what I did and how it made me feel. Hopefully he will take the less is more approach with the people he is working with. I do understand that Sub is and opiate and I am not clean until I am off it. Like I said, I was ober for 4 years from everything(including alcohol) and I want that life back. I am having really bad back pain as the opiates leave my body. I haven't been able to feel pain for 2 years and it sucks. I was also in a car accident this last year and havent been able to feel what that pain caused for me either. It is worse than before I started the pain management to be honest, but, my kids and wife are far more important to me than taking all of this ???? just to not feel a bit of pain. I just took some >>> and it seems to be helping though. I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks again!

  13. #13
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Post how you are feeling today. You need to realize the importance of stabilizing and it seems that you do.However, you jumped from 4mg. per day down to 3mg. then down to 2.5mg. tells me you are all over the place with your induction. You also need to take your sub at the same time each day. It also disturbs me that you took the subs w/o using a COWS sheet and had norco in your system. You may have been lucky to avoid precipitated w/d. Be careful with the subs they are much stronger than what you were taking. Remember subs are a tool and not a cure all. Post and let us know how you are feeling.

    Iloerose
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  14. #14
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Post how you are feeling today. You need to realize the importance of stabilizing and it seems that you do.However, you jumped from 4mg. per day down to 3mg. then down to 2.5mg. tells me you are all over the place with your induction. You also need to take your sub at the same time each day. It also disturbs me that you took the subs w/o using a COWS sheet and had norco in your system. You may have been lucky to avoid precipitated w/d. Be careful with the subs they are much stronger than what you were taking. Remember subs are a tool and not a cure all. Post and let us know how you are feeling.

    Iloerose


    I actually feel really good today. I havent made the switch to 2.5mg yet. I did make a switch from 4 to 3 in one day though. 4mg my first day and 3mg my second day, Im in my third day now. Yesterday was the first day that I took 3mg. This morning I started out with 1.5mg just like I did yesterday morning. If I make the switch to 2.5mg it will be tonight(as I would only take 1mg later). I'm going to base it purely off how I feel today and how I feel when it comes time to take a dose tonight. I may stick to 3mg for the first 7 days. It really just depends on how I feel like I said. When I took my first dose, it was on doctors order. He was the one that did the assessment. He checked my pupils and how much I was sweating. To be honest, I was scared to take that first dose so close to having my last dose of Norcos. I looked at him puzzled when he handed it to me and asked if he was positive I wasn't going to get sick. His response was, "That's why I only gave you 1mg, to see if you will switch without issue". After he realised I wasn't gonna WD he gave me 1mg more. If you ask me, I don't wanna be an experiment. I wish he would have let me wait till the following morning without taking anything to make sure I was in WD. This doctor was recommended to me by one the best rehabs in the area. I have to trust him to a certain degree. Remember, Norcos are a short acting opiate. Subs can actually be taken almost as soon as you would need your next dose of Norco. That is per doctor and pharmacist advice. Again, I would have rather waitied to make sure I was in moderate withdrawl at least. If I was gonna feel like ???? because of all of this, wouldn't I be feeling bad already? In WDs already? About being all over the place with my induction...Had I followed the doctors orders all together, I would be on 8mg a day. That to me and others on here as well seemed way too high of a dose. All I really have to go on is how I feel you know. Some people are telling me to stay at 2mg, which I did feel some WD at. If I'm not mistaken, I'm not supposed to feel WDs at the lowest effective dose, right? Do you feel I should go back up to 4mg? Not being a smart ass, these are legitimate questions I have. Thanks.
    Last edited by NewChanges; 01-20-2013 at 01:14 PM.

  15. #15
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Yup, yup! If you were going to have prec. w/d you would know and would already be there. I knew you probably would have been in prec. almost instantly if it was going to happen, but not sure because you were upping your dose for a bit. And yes, 8 is too high of a dose and I've seen people come on here at 16mg. because of having to follow doctor's orders. That's just the way it is. Get in get what you need and then do what you need to do. If you're feeling good on 3mg. why don't you stabilize there for a few more days and then taper from there. If you're fine at 3mg. don't up your dose to 4mg. You seem to be doing really good and no, I know you are not being a smart ass. I'm glad you gave all the info you did, as I was worried about what you were doing, changing dosage so quickly. So, now, you've confirmed that you're on the right path! Makes me feel a heck of a lot better! I hope you're doing well!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  16. #16
    NewChanges is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Yup, yup! If you were going to have prec. w/d you would know and would already be there. I knew you probably would have been in prec. almost instantly if it was going to happen, but not sure because you were upping your dose for a bit. And yes, 8 is too high of a dose and I've seen people come on here at 16mg. because of having to follow doctor's orders. That's just the way it is. Get in get what you need and then do what you need to do. If you're feeling good on 3mg. why don't you stabilize there for a few more days and then taper from there. If you're fine at 3mg. don't up your dose to 4mg. You seem to be doing really good and no, I know you are not being a smart ass. I'm glad you gave all the info you did, as I was worried about what you were doing, changing dosage so quickly. So, now, you've confirmed that you're on the right path! Makes me feel a heck of a lot better! I hope you're doing well!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    I did develop a pretty nice headache today that 800mg of >>> took care of. I think I probaly will stay at 3mg considering I had a headache today though I know the Sub can cause it. I just don't want to create any more issues even if the Sub alone is giving me my headache. Thanks for your insight, it is appreciated. I just can't wait until I'm off all of this ????. I want my sober life back...

  17. #17
    zephandi is offline New Member
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    Help!I'm addicted to fentayl,using 150(a100+50 patch@72hrs)I took off&flushed the last patch 19hrs ago,all i haveto help the w/d symptoms is gabapentin 300mg.tabs,and 12 tylenol#3 tabs.should i try to only take the#3 tabs every 4hrs,as I'm having Major flu symptoms&RLS so bad I look like I'm riding a bike in my recliner!I'm@ 54yr.old female,it's 4pm on Sunday so giving up&getting more drugs won't happen before tomorrow afternoon!Is there any other over the countermedsthat help?I read benadryl will help?I have to stop this,i had surgery and should be doing better,not this!!Thank you,I'm home alone and noone knows about this!What about a couplebeers??

  18. #18
    PennieLane33 is offline Member
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    Hey NewChanges! Just wanted to say congrats on being ready to get off your DOC... I want to express my opinion and my opinion ONLY, I am not a doctor or medical professional, I am just telling you from experience.

    I have been addicted to opiates since 2007, I decided in 2012 that I was DONE and started suboxone, OFF THE STREET unfortunately, so no one warned me I was trading one addiction for another. I will START by saying that suboxone DOES help cravings, and while on suboxone I had NO desire at all what so ever to use, it gives you a clearer mind and changes your habitual lying, scamming to get what you need. You end up just living un afraid. HOWEVERRRRRRRRRRRR... When you do decide to quit subs they can be a NIGHTMARE. How do I know? B/c I am doing that right now. I have been on Subs for 1 year almost exactly, I started at only 2 mg per day and never went above that. I dosed 2x per day Morning and evening 1mg 2x per day. It has taken me 3 months to wean from 2mg to .5 per day, but I did it. I skipped 3 days and on day 4 today, i started feeling wd... it sucked, but you know what? It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I felt anxious, RLS, empty feeling in the pit of my stomach and my vision was blurry... had the runs a bit this morning too, I planned on taking . 25mg today anyway b/c of how i'm tapering, but I waited an extra 6 hours before I dosed, I wanted to see how it felt and honestly it was NOT a walk in the park don't get me wrong, but it was "different" i guess... I felt that getting UP was better than lying down and wallowing. trust me the CT method has been something I did on a regular basis and it SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSS, this was oddly different. but I mean if i went CT off roxies I would have been feeling better by day 4 not just starting to feel like a**, so I can tell this is going to be a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG ride. In conclusion DO NOT stay on SUBOXONE for more than a couple of weeks, unless you REALLY feel you're not ready to quit opiates and fear you may want to use again. I can already tell that this WD is going to be MONTHS of annoying issues, where as CT off of opiates is a NIGHTMARE at least the worst is over after a few days... I would love some thoughts from anyone also quitting sub. xo!

  19. #19
    PennieLane33 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephandi View Post
    Help!I'm addicted to fentayl,using 150(a100+50 patch@72hrs)I took off&flushed the last patch 19hrs ago,all i haveto help the w/d symptoms is gabapentin 300mg.tabs,and 12 tylenol#3 tabs.should i try to only take the#3 tabs every 4hrs,as I'm having Major flu symptoms&RLS so bad I look like I'm riding a bike in my recliner!I'm@ 54yr.old female,it's 4pm on Sunday so giving up&getting more drugs won't happen before tomorrow afternoon!Is there any other over the countermedsthat help?I read benadryl will help?I have to stop this,i had surgery and should be doing better,not this!!Thank you,I'm home alone and noone knows about this!What about a couplebeers??

    listen unfortunately i feel HORRIBLE for you b/c I've been there, but this post is for people trying to stop using drugs, not people looking for a way to hold them over until more drugs are available. I will advise you from experience ONLY as I am not a doctor. Take the 3's, if you don't plan on quitting then you might as well keep taking whatever you have, don't mix anything and ONLY take the pill if you feel like you really need it. Fentanyl CT is ridiculous and if you really are that bad and you are taking then from a doctor that prescribes them I would give your dr a call and ask for a refill, or go to a hospital with your records from the pharmacy, explain you ran out and they will probably give you something to hold you over. IF you want to QUIT the drugs, let me know, that I would be more than happy ( as well as everyone else) to help you with, as we are all addicts and all currently OFF or trying to get off the drugs. Good luck... off topic my member status states ONE post, but I have another name that I couldn't remember the email/name to, so I couldn't reset the password.
    Last edited by PennieLane33; 01-20-2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: used the wrong word

  20. #20
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Pennie: After taking subs as long as you did, jumping from .5mg was a huge jump and I'm not surprised at your w/d symptoms. You just hit the tip of that iceberg with the sub w/d as subs have a long half life, .5mg is a pretty large jump. Get back on your .25 and stabilize on that for a few days and THEN begin doing skip days. You can also reduce further to .125mg and then skip or jump. There is no need to go through a long drawn out c/t from subs. Here is the protocol:

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    You are absolutely right about not staying on subs any longer than you have to, the longer you are on the harder it is to come off and the longer it takes. Read around the boards and see how others have done this. Kikker is excellent with this protocol. You may want to start your own thread here. Congratulations to you for wanting to be CLEAN from subs.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  21. #21
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Can you repost this on "need to talk"? Are you interested in getting off of the fentanyl entirely? I'm sure that beer is not the best idea on top of the gabapentin and tylenol #3, but I understand your misery, having seen others endure fentanyl w/d on these boards. For your RLS: Hyland's leg cramps, Hyland's Forte or restful legs may help, as will gatorade to an extent. Hang tough, stay hydrated.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  22. #22
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You will absolutely get there. Yeah, the sub can cause it. I wouldn't wait 7 days to drop though, I'd go 4-5, 4 if you're feeling stable and then reduce by the 25%. Here is the sub protocol from the boards:

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    You WILL have your sober life back again!

  23. #23
    PennieLane33 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Pennie: After taking subs as long as you did, jumping from .5mg was a huge jump and I'm not surprised at your w/d symptoms. You just hit the tip of that iceberg with the sub w/d as subs have a long half life, .5mg is a pretty large jump. Get back on your .25 and stabilize on that for a few days and THEN begin doing skip days. You can also reduce further to .125mg and then skip or jump. There is no need to go through a long drawn out c/t from subs. Here is the protocol:

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    You are absolutely right about not staying on subs any longer than you have to, the longer you are on the harder it is to come off and the longer it takes. Read around the boards and see how others have done this. Kikker is excellent with this protocol. You may want to start your own thread here. Congratulations to you for wanting to be CLEAN from subs.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Thanks Iloerose. I have already been weaning for months using that link and others as well from Robert, but thank you for reiterating. I basically felt like I wanted to stop and let the WD hit me so I could see how bad it would be, it was oddly tolerable on day 4, but I did go back to .25mg like I stated in my post today and will basically try to hold off every time I have to dose. I reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly want to get the hell away from EVERYTHING... if i go down to .25, then .125 and jump won't it still be the same wd? I mean I've tried before from 1mg and it felt the same way with .5 lol... This stuff is incredibly evil.

  24. #24
    Pifer is offline New Member
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    I am interested in taking with someone about suboxone detox. I know no one that has ever successfully gotten off and I know alot of drug addicts. I am really bad with computers, but I am very experienced at detox. I used suboxone to detox a tenyear methadone habit. I have been in treatment forever. In the last 2 yrs. I went from 34mg. of suboxone a day to 8 mg. I am now dropping one mg. at a time I have been sick 9 days. I want to know if there is anyone who knows when and if this will end? I just keep hoping and being sick...

  25. #25
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pifer View Post
    I am interested in taking with someone about suboxone detox. I know no one that has ever successfully gotten off and I know alot of drug addicts. I am really bad with computers, but I am very experienced at detox. I used suboxone to detox a tenyear methadone habit. I have been in treatment forever. In the last 2 yrs. I went from 34mg. of suboxone a day to 8 mg. I am now dropping one mg. at a time I have been sick 9 days. I want to know if there is anyone who knows when and if this will end? I just keep hoping and being sick...

    i got off successfully, and so did hundreds of others on this forum alone using suboxone/subutex! it's no wonder that u are feeling sick...u have been on wayyyy too much sub, and the 1 mg reductions u have made are another cause to make u really feel sick. subs are a great tool to help u get clean, but they must be used correctly for that to happen. u have to be on the lowest dose that makes u stable, then taper from them in a steady, controlled fashion.

    here's the link to the sub therapy plan that most everyone on this forum uses. i used it myself and now enjoying a life free of addicting drugs. u can too if u really want it bad enough. the link is below.....

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    what u want to do is reduce the dose ur on by 25% and remain on that dose for about 4 days or so. it may take longer than 4 days on each dose, but that is a guide-line for u. just keep reducing by 25% each time until ur down to .25 mg or lower. u can either jump from that dose, or use the day-skipping process that will be explained later.

    read that sub plan and pay extra careful attention to the TAPER SECTION of it. come back and post to keep us informed, and to ask any questions. begin ur own thread and u will get lots more responses. take care and best wishes. i'll be looking for ur new thread.
    iloerose likes this.

  26. #26
    RoyalFlush is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewChanges View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I am new here and new to Sub(yesterday to be exact). I was taking Norco 10/325 for about 2 years and Percocet 10/325 for about 6 months. I would take about 80mg of Norco and 20mg of Percocet a day for some buldging disks I had in my back. Some days I would take 40mg of Percocet and 60mg Norcos. I actually quit the Percs about 5 days before I saw the doc and went through the whole lethargic feeling from doing so(thank God I had the Norcos to help me transition). When I saw my new Suboxone doctor yesterday he gave me 1mg of Sub about 4 hours after my last dose of Norcos and the induction went well. In fact he gave me another 1mg before I left his office and it made me feel great. The cold, clamy and tingly feeling in my feet went away and all. Last night I was told to take another 4mg of the Sub film before I went to bed. I only took 2mg and it almost seemed as if my breathing was suppressed. Is this normal to go through? It is possible that I didnt take enough and was having a slight panic attack I guess. I'm just curious if you guys went through the same thing that I did? I know the Sub is probably stronger than the Norcos and don't wanna OD myself you know. My wife works nights and I'm home with the kids. Not that I would want to OD anyways, but, witth the kids here I worry the most. Your insights on this issue are greatly appreciated. I just can't wait to be normal again and don't want to overdue the treatment process and don't want to create some crazy Sub addiction either. Thanks in advance!

    ~Regards~
    Hi,
    What I did after been on 80mg Percs/day for over 2 years I tapered down directly and drop down, cold turkey at 2mg/day. I took the withdrawal for about one week using the Thomas Recipe (TR) and been clean and very fine since. If you get into Subs you are getting into another very powerful drug/narcotic and still will have withdrawals plus very expensive. Don't be afraid of withdrawals. Take the "punishment" for one week or so and get done with it. You'll feel like having a flu and miserable but TR will help a lot to overcome. The whole secret is to make you sleep a lot during the withdrawals. I used Diazepam to knock me down and become real sleepy to the point that I used to dose off 20 hours a day. Getting up up for some food and hot baths and going back to sleep. You have to put yourself in a constant state of sleepiness any way you can in order to survive the nasty WDs. The worse is gone be over in 3-4 days.

    "Suffer and expiate your sin by suffering and punishment, that's what you must do and that's the sure cure."

    Your friend for life,
    RoyalFlush
    Last edited by RoyalFlush; 01-21-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  27. #27
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Royal Flush and all who have discounted sub therapy: Sub is an excellent tool to get off opiates, particularly the powerful opiates such as percs, roxies, oxies, >>>>>>, methadone. Using subs doesn't mean that you won't feel discomfort at times but for many they allow the mind to readjust and to come to terms with the cravings for their DOC. Many find that they cannot taper their DOC and find sub a hopeful option. Sometimes, after a long or particularly large habit, c/t is next to impossible for some. If subs are used in the right way they are a safe and sane option. The goal here is to break the cycle of addiction. There is a great sub taper protocol that has worked for many and helped them to gain CLEAN lives.
    PLEASE DO NOT COME INTO THIS FORUM AND TELL PEOPLE HOW THEY NEED TO SUFFER, THEY ARE SUFFERING ENOUGH. SUB THERAPY IS A VIABLE OPTION IF DONE CORRECTLY, NOT THE HELL YOU DESCRIBE

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Kikker and alexnt like this.

  28. #28
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Pennie: 1mg or .5mg. is a lot to jump from. Read kikker's thread, he jumped from .25mg. You have to do what is comfortable for you to do. I suggest you get stable at the .25mg. I haven't done the subs myself, but I will def. put you on to someone who can share their experiences with you.

  29. #29
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Pennie: 1mg or .5mg. is a lot to jump from. Read kikker's thread, he jumped from .25mg. You have to do what is comfortable for you to do. I suggest you get stable at the .25mg. I haven't done the subs myself, but I will def. put you on to someone who can share their experiences with you.
    hi Pennie....can u begin ur own thread soon? u will get lots more responses by doing so. u could keep it in this suboxone section, or maybe place it in the "Need to Talk" site where there is usually lots more action on that side of the forum. we can get u a plan that will work for u. if u need help starting that thread just let us know ok.

  30. #30
    RoyalFlush is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Royal Flush and all who have discounted sub therapy: Sub is an excellent tool to get off opiates, particularly the powerful opiates such as percs, roxies, oxies, >>>>>>, methadone. Using subs doesn't mean that you won't feel discomfort at times but for many they allow the mind to readjust and to come to terms with the cravings for their DOC. Many find that they cannot taper their DOC and find sub a hopeful option. Sometimes, after a long or particularly large habit, c/t is next to impossible for some. If subs are used in the right way they are a safe and sane option. The goal here is to break the cycle of addiction. There is a great sub taper protocol that has worked for many and helped them to gain CLEAN lives.
    PLEASE DO NOT COME INTO THIS FORUM AND TELL PEOPLE HOW THEY NEED TO SUFFER, THEY ARE SUFFERING ENOUGH. SUB THERAPY IS A VIABLE OPTION IF DONE CORRECTLY, NOT THE HELL YOU DESCRIBE

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    The suffering is gone be only3-4 days or max one week. After that you are home free. Using Suboxone is gone just postpone the agony and it will cost you lots of money for nothing.

    RF

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