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Robert please help me, god bless
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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    Default Robert please help me, god bless

    Hi guys, I am addicted to percocets. I am ready to stop using them. I have been praying and going to church and am mentally and spiritually ready.

    I am waiting for my subs. A friend of mine is getting me them. I dont know much about them, this is my first time using them. They look pink or peach and im not sure what amount they are. I can ask when I get them though, or post a photo.

    I am up to 120-240mg percocets {i take 30mg blue pills most of the time so i think they are roxicets?}. I have been up to this level of mg for about a month now. I used to hover around the 40mg mark and then 100mg and now I am way out of control.

    Please robert, I beg of you to hold my hand through this in terms of directions. I am so so so ready to do this. I know the most important part is the induction, and after reading this forum for a while now I promise to follow what you say to the very last word.

    Thank you all very much, I am happy you are all here to help, and thank you robert very much in advance.

    With your help and the love of Jesus I am ready to get my life back.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelpme View Post
    Hi guys, I am addicted to percocets. I am ready to stop using them. I have been praying and going to church and am mentally and spiritually ready.

    I am waiting for my subs. A friend of mine is getting me them. I dont know much about them, this is my first time using them. They look pink or peach and im not sure what amount they are. I can ask when I get them though, or post a photo.

    I am up to 120-240mg percocets {i take 30mg blue pills most of the time so i think they are roxicets?}. I have been up to this level of mg for about a month now. I used to hover around the 40mg mark and then 100mg and now I am way out of control.

    Please robert, I beg of you to hold my hand through this in terms of directions. I am so so so ready to do this. I know the most important part is the induction, and after reading this forum for a while now I promise to follow what you say to the very last word.

    Thank you all very much, I am happy you are all here to help, and thank you robert very much in advance.

    With your help and the love of Jesus I am ready to get my life back.


    Let me know when you get them and then you need to score a 26 or higher on the COWS worksheet before induction. I have to ask, are you taking 120mg or 240mg as there is lots of difference? If you're on 120mg I wouldn't go with subs, I would use the Thomas Recipe. Not trying to talk you out of anything but need to do the right process according to the amount you've been taking and for HOW LONG??? God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    EDHEDR1 is offline New Member
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    I'm not Robert, but I am an addiction medicine specialist. If you are going to be taking suboxone without a script or supervision by a qualified prescriber, you are asking for trouble. I am not going to hound you on it, but I will offer some advice, DO NOT take the suboxone until you are ready to rip your hair out from withdrawl, if you have taken anything within 12 hours of your first dose, you will immediately go into withdrawl from the Naloxone in the Suboxone, You will hate life even more. At your current opiate dose, your in the range of 24mg/6mg a day (3- 8mg/2mg strips or tabs a day) DO NOT mix any benzo's with it, it could possibly kill you. do not swallow, crush, or chew them, if you are taking two, put them on seperate sides on the tounge, if you are getting the 8mg tablet, which is most common, it will be a orange, hexagonal shape, and smell like oranges. there will be a "sword" imprint on one side and 8mg on the other. Get yourself into a detox/rehab if you can, it's the only way... Suboxone's are not cheap on the street, and it is very hard to do alone. My wife had the same issue you did, and it took me three years to get her back to normal, she started it all because of a horrific car accident. I used to be a narcotics Officer in NJ, and I decided to go back to college and became an addiction counselor/ addicition program coordinator because of my experiences. There are many options you can choose, but at this point your substituting one addiction for another... Suboxone is still a narcotic and it is not a safe alterative without the proper care to go along with the treatment. I have had a client on Suboxone that decided to mixed it with Xanax, she passed out holding her 1 month old baby and killed it. Now she has to live with that. Any drug will ruin your life, the key is to get off ALL drugs. I hope I didn't come off to be too harsh, but you obviously know you are not in a good situation,I would suggest seeing a psychologist as well, my senses are telling me your a female, early to mid 20's with underlying psychological issues due to situations that occured while you were a child. I can explain more, but I believe it is a little personal to you... how far off am I??? I will try to help as much as I can, if you want the help of course.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 05-05-2012 at 06:06 PM.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    You're out of your mind if you think this guy needs 24mg of subs! You sound like a typical textbook ONE SIZE FITS ALL bookworm! How do you know what he needs? That is why you do an induction and you start with minimal doses like .5mg AFTER scoring a 26 or higher on the COWS worksheet. Do you know what that is?

    If you read around this forum you'll see I've been getting people clean off opiates with subs with an induction dose typically around 3-4mg and they are clean in about 8 weeks. We don't need more people promoting 24mg inductions for everyone around here. God bless.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 05-05-2012 at 06:05 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    EDHEDR1 is offline New Member
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    The thomas recipe is not safe, you will bombard your body with vitamins and nutrients that more than likely will not metabolize properly depending on the amount of tylenol you have ingested before moving to just narcotic meds. Plus using too much imodium can blow out your intestines (worst case scenario) or severly bind you up causing intense stomach pain and another problem to include adominal obstruction; then what?Why the hell would you want to use benzo's while coming off of another drug? i understand the sedative properties, but you ever think about underlying health conditions from the amount of opiates? what about liver function? would any of those herbal remedies effect the cyp450a enzyme, causing high plasma concentrations of the benzo's? Helllllooooo overdose nice to meet you...especially if your on any other meds causing CNS depression. The best way to withdrawl is medically... handsdown, you will relapse 96% of the time if you do it on your own. It's your choice, weigh out all the options and choose what's best for you.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Mr Addiction Specialist ..... If you bothered to actually read the post the original poster is taking blues! Percs are not blue and this person is taking 30mg Roxicodone IR which has NO apap or Tylenol! Read the post!

    We have one of the lowest relapse ratios you'll find anywhere. No 96% relapse ratio here, where did you pull that one out of your hat? I worked with two drs this week helping them with their patients teaching them how to use subs properly. Been doing this a long time my friend. Notice the almost 16,000 posts here.

    I know what I'm doing and you are dreaming up garbage about bad childhoods and all kinds of nonsense. This person wants to get off blues. Stop scaring the hell out of her/him over a simple opiate detox. And for what it's worth a lot of people have used the Thomas Recipe successfully for smaller opiate addictions. Don't come on here with two posts thinking you are taking over any threads or anything else around here. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    EDHEDR1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    You're out of your mind if you think this guy needs 24mg of subs! You sound like a typical textbook ONE SIZE FITS ALL bookworm! How do you know what he needs? That is why you do an induction and you start with minimal doses like .5mg AFTER scoring a 26 or higher on the COWS worksheet. Do you know what that is?

    If you read around this forum you'll see I've been getting people clean off opiates with subs with an induction dose typically around 3-4mg and they are clean in about 8 weeks. We don't need more people promoting 24mg inductions for everyone around here. God bless.
    Your right, I am the typical bookworm, I went to college for it, and according to the maximum amount of opiates being used, it would be the starting point to establish a baseline and work the patient down. Obviously I haven't looked around (see the new member designator under my name?) so I am not aware of your success, but I am of mine. I have helped hundreds, if not thousands of teens and adults gain their lives back with the methods I have used, which are accepted by the AMA, unlike the Thomas recipe for treating the addiction and withdrawl of opiates. I have this cute little number assigned to me by the DEA and am registered as a Licensed Suboxone Prescriber, Do you? So you can poke at me and question my opinions, thats fine, I am a big boy and can take it. So if I have no clue what he/she needs, I am assuming you do then? Did you run a CBC, LFT, Tox screen, find out their AST/LST counts before suggesting an at home treatment that could possibly cause adverse effects? Are you familiar with their medical history before suggesting benzo's, do they have any psychiatric conditions that should be addressed to help reduce the chance of relapse? The COWS worksheet is a tool, it helps, but (I'm just being crazy here) at this person's use, i think it would be safe to say they will score anywhere from a 30 to over 36, especially if they have not had anything in 24hrs. But anyone's score will come down after the first 30min dose, they have meds in their system and they are taking effect, 2 hrs later might be okay still, but what about when they have the meds and are not being "watched and evaluated" so 4mgs would be a good dose if you want it to just reduce symptoms at the time, but at the minimum i would say 16mg/day. Then taper by 2 mgs monthly to ensure comfort with tapering the dose. I have never seen a patient need only 4 mgs a day with no withdrawl symptoms coming off of Oxy or >>>>>>. So all these people you helped, how many have relapsed? Welp Subhelpme...good luck you have a long road ahead... sorry you simple question turned into a dick measuring contest. I wish you the best.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    No offense ed but I trust robert 10000 percent. This is my second time withdrawling. I did it cold turkey the first time and even though the first five days were really hard, I made it. But that was a few months ago and I didnt follow up with support groups and church. Now I know that i need NA meetings after I beat the initial withdrawls.

    I know robert knows what he is talking about because I see him help people all the time on here.

    I will look for the COWS worksheet tonight and have it on hand tomorrow. It appears I will have the subs tomorrow night, so if I do I will not take anything past midday tomorrow and hopefully by monday night I will be at the right spot to start the sub treatment with you. I will not rush it and I will follow what you say to a T.

    I am at the 240mg mark currently and for the last two weeks. Before that was 180mg mark for a month. There were days that were less and a few that were more but this is the general escalation of my usage.

    I am so thankful for you to be here to help us and no offense to ed but i think ed is the perfect example as to why we need people like robert. people who were addicts who learned through his personal experience what truly works , not just what people think works on paper.

    Thank you thank you thank you so much robert.

    I have been taking two 30mg blue pills at a time, four times a day. I just took two of them about ten minutes ago. I hate taking them, deep in my spirit i do. but if i dont take them until i get the subs i start to get sick quickly.

    Thank you robert, I will let you know when i have them in my hand. if you want to write what you suggest I do after i reach the right place on the cows sheet. or a general summary of what we are going to do i would be more than happy to read it over a few times just to know what is going to be the gameplan.

    thank you again
    god bless
    through him everything is possible
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    EDHEDR1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Mr Addiction Specialist ..... If you bothered to actually read the post the original poster is taking blues! Percs are not blue and this person is taking 30mg Roxicodone IR which has NO apap or Tylenol! Read the post!

    We have one of the lowest relapse ratios you'll find anywhere. No 96% relapse ratio here, where did you pull that one out of your hat? I worked with two drs this week helping them with their patients teaching them how to use subs properly. Been doing this a long time my friend. Notice the almost 16,000 posts here.

    I know what I'm doing and you are dreaming up garbage about bad childhoods and all kinds of nonsense. This person wants to get off blues. Stop scaring the hell out of her/him over a simple opiate detox. And for what it's worth a lot of people have used the Thomas Recipe successfully for smaller opiate addictions. Don't come on here with two posts thinking you are taking over any threads or anything else around here. God bless.
    okay cookie, but I am sure since your the expert, most people start with meds that have apap in them, they were just explaining their current use. I am not trying to take anything over, I was offering help, just like you, and you turned into a pissing contest because you didn't like my answer because it conflicted with yours. So I will let you play god and enjoy your night looking for someone to disagree with. Just for the record, my dreams are statistics, most addicts are addicts because of bad childhood situations, I hope you can help with this "simple withdrawl". Glad you can help so many people. God Bless

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    EDHEDR1 is offline New Member
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    no problem, just trying to help... hope you get where you need to be good luck

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    subhelpme ..... here is a link to the COWS worksheet as well as my sub therapy protocol which explains the induction and taper plan in detail. Let me know how I can help you. God bless.

    Sub therapy protocol ....
    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    COWS worksheet ...
    http://www.drugs.com/resources/opioi...wal-record.pdf
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Hey everyone, hi robert. I just spoke with my friend and he will be here in two hours. I have a family function to go to right now so I will be taking my last 2 roxicets at noon and that is it. I just flushed 25 roxicets before I got on the computer. it wasnt even hard to do, i dont even want them near me or in my house. no temptation and no chance to take it if i have a rough moment.

    From what I saw in the photo the pills are peach in color, almost pink, have six sides, and say D8 on one side...I think it was D...it was a letter and then the number 8. Do you know what exactly the pill is. and how many mg it is. its obviously important so i know how much sub i am taking.

    Ok so my loose plan is by tomorrow at noon I am hoping to have the proper score on the COWS to take my first dose of sub. Do i cut the pills into pieces or should I grind it into a powder and seperate it into sections using a razor etc.

    I am nervous i cant lie, but considering i did it last time cold turkey i am actually hopeful that this time wont be as bad. its a much higher dosage but im just going to go with it one day at a time

    I plan on finding NA meetings near my house and job, and a support group. I want to do this right this time. I am so sick of taking these pills. I have cuts on my arms from scratching them. its embarassing. I just want to put this part of my life behind me and go back to being a drug free man.

    Thank you robert you are a godsend. i thank god for people like you and this forum, and i thank god for loving me and pray for him to look after me in this time of need

    god bless

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelpme View Post
    Hey everyone, hi robert. I just spoke with my friend and he will be here in two hours. I have a family function to go to right now so I will be taking my last 2 roxicets at noon and that is it. I just flushed 25 roxicets before I got on the computer. it wasnt even hard to do, i dont even want them near me or in my house. no temptation and no chance to take it if i have a rough moment.

    From what I saw in the photo the pills are peach in color, almost pink, have six sides, and say D8 on one side...I think it was D...it was a letter and then the number 8. Do you know what exactly the pill is. and how many mg it is. its obviously important so i know how much sub i am taking.

    Ok so my loose plan is by tomorrow at noon I am hoping to have the proper score on the COWS to take my first dose of sub. Do i cut the pills into pieces or should I grind it into a powder and seperate it into sections using a razor etc.

    I am nervous i cant lie, but considering i did it last time cold turkey i am actually hopeful that this time wont be as bad. its a much higher dosage but im just going to go with it one day at a time

    I plan on finding NA meetings near my house and job, and a support group. I want to do this right this time. I am so sick of taking these pills. I have cuts on my arms from scratching them. its embarassing. I just want to put this part of my life behind me and go back to being a drug free man.

    Thank you robert you are a godsend. i thank god for people like you and this forum, and i thank god for loving me and pray for him to look after me in this time of need

    god bless



    You have 8mg suboxone. I have to take a person into a dr I know tomorrow morning for help and will be home around noonish, maybe just a little after. Don't start without me!! I want to be sure this goes down right for you. I'll check on you as soon as I get home from getting my old friend home from the sub dr. Wait for me! God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    Ok I have work tomorrow I go in around 11. I can check this thread from my phone and reply and communicate that way. I am already beginning to get symptoms, nowhere near ready but it has started. Im nervous because I know what lies ahead but im happy because I know im about to start my path of no more pills everyday to not be sick.

    Robert, I know you want to hold my hand through this and I want this as well, but I did have a question, lets say I wake up and right before I go to work I score a 26, is it possible for you to give me the first step on what your advice would be. maybe how to break up the pill and how much to take for the first part of the day. I promise If I am not a 26 I will not do anything prematurely. This way if you post what I am supposed to do, and I am at work and only have a moment to check the website I have the ability to read your suggestion and do it on my break. Again, I will not do anything unless I score a 26 tomorrow before or during work. I have read that you recommend a .5mg dose to start and then wait two hours, then if needed to add .25mg every 90 minutes until stabalized. I am assuming stabalized means not feeling the w/d symptoms anymore? Well I will wait for your reply.

    Thank you Robert, god bless
    Last edited by subhelpme; 05-06-2012 at 07:11 PM.

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    jeffrey123 is offline Junior Member
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    Well....that was fun. Nice job not getting shook and holding your ground Robert. I hope it did not raise your blood pressure as much as it did mine. Good job. Thanks
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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey123 View Post
    Well....that was fun. Nice job not getting shook and holding your ground Robert. I hope it did not raise your blood pressure as much as it did mine. Good job. Thanks



    I won't back off from someone telling a person to take 24mg of sub, don't care who they are. That is the kind of sub dr, if he was one, that cause people to end up here.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelpme View Post
    Ok I have work tomorrow I go in around 11. I can check this thread from my phone and reply and communicate that way. I am already beginning to get symptoms, nowhere near ready but it has started. Im nervous because I know what lies ahead but im happy because I know im about to start my path of no more pills everyday to not be sick.

    Robert, I know you want to hold my hand through this and I want this as well, but I did have a question, lets say I wake up and right before I go to work I score a 26, is it possible for you to give me the first step on what your advice would be. maybe how to break up the pill and how much to take for the first part of the day. I promise If I am not a 26 I will not do anything prematurely. This way if you post what I am supposed to do, and I am at work and only have a moment to check the website I have the ability to read your suggestion and do it on my break. Again, I will not do anything unless I score a 26 tomorrow before or during work. I have read that you recommend a .5mg dose to start and then wait two hours, then if needed to add .25mg every 90 minutes until stabalized. I am assuming stabalized means not feeling the w/d symptoms anymore? Well I will wait for your reply.

    Thank you Robert, god bless


    If you actually are a 26 then you can take 1mg and wait two hours, then take 1mg again if you have to. I know that I'll be home by then. But let me warn you if you take it too soon you'll go into precipitated w/d and you won't believe how sick you'll be! Please know what you are doing.

    If after you've taken the 2mg mentioned above you aren't yet feeling normal take another 1mg. I can't imagine not being on here by then. I may end up having to put someone into a rehab tomorrow if they don't listen to me so I could get detained for a little while. I'll be in touch as soon as I get home. You shouldn't need any more than that 3mg max for starters anyway. That should be tops! PLEASE make sure you're a 26 score or you're begging for misery. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    Hey guys , still here. Not at a 26 yet. Maybe a 22 tops . Feeling really terrible. Cold, diahhreah, runny nose and sweating

    I'm not really sure about my eyes or my heart rate so i keep them at a 1 on the scale


    I can't wait til I hit 26 so I can take the piece if pill

    Iis there normally a timeframe it takes. I am at 24 hours

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    Oh I did have one question. I take ativan and xaxax at times for bouts of depression. Can I take them on suboxone or will I risk resp depression

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    God bless and Ty

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelpme View Post
    Oh I did have one question. I take ativan and xaxax at times for bouts of depression. Can I take them on suboxone or will I risk resp depression


    If you've taken them a long time at a small dose the ativan should be okay. I would avoid the xanax. Don't take any though until well after your induction is over. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    I made it to 3;15. 27hours. I was at a 26

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    Well it has almost been two hours and I still feel quite terrible. Mostly sweating profusely and bone cutting chills. I am going to take the second 1mg now

    I guess in two hours I will see how I feel. I am hoping much better. Please pray for me

    God bless

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelpme View Post
    Well it has almost been two hours and I still feel quite terrible. Mostly sweating profusely and bone cutting chills. I am going to take the second 1mg now

    I guess in two hours I will see how I feel. I am hoping much better. Please pray for me

    God bless




    I had to leave for a bit when you said you were at a 22. Let me know before you take another dose. It looks like you dosed the second 1mg at 4:00 my time. So I will look for you at about 6:00 unless you have an update for me now. I'm here and not going anywhere. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Hey Robert! Glad you are here with me. I still feel pretty bad. It's 45 minutes since the second dose and I'm still sweating and have chills galore.

    I did have a question. What am I looking to feel like? Like I am not on meds. A slight wd. This way I know when enough of the subs are enough.
    Oh my these chills are Terrible

    God bless

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    We want you to feel like you are totally normal, not high, not in w/d, just a plain old "earth person." Take 1mg more and give it an hour, then post back to me. You should feel a little better. I just don't want you to take a big dose at once as we want you to get stable on the smallest dose possible and this is how it needs to be done. You only have to do this once, then we'll have you stable and it will be so much easier on you tapering down if you're on the smallest dose that we can make work for you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    A normal earth person , I can do that

    Robert thank you so so much.

    A quick story to pass a few moments if you don't mind. I was taking 80-100mg of percocets a while ago and went cold turkey! I was so happy to be drug free. But I never went to NA for support and thought " one once in a while won't hurt" WRONG lol so wrong

    So I got readdicted fast and was up to 240mg daily

    I pray the subs work and I taper properly and in a month or however long you taper people, I feel like an earth person again but without any drugs.

    I just took the third dose. Im scared because what if it's not enough and you say 3mg max is the max.

    I'm do scared thank u for helping me
    God bless everyone god bless u Robert
    I pray the lord helps me

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    Let's see how you feel in an hour. I didn't want you to take over 3mg without me being here to make sure you were doing it right. If we have to go a little higher we can, I usually am able to do this at a low dose. I'm expecting good results with you as long as you were an honest for real 26 when you started! Keep me posted. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    subhelpme is offline Member
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    According to my calculations I was an honest for real 26. Omg what if I was wrong?!?! I'm sorry Robert I swear I counted it up to 26!

    If I wasnt a 26 what will happen ? I'm so nervous and scared at this point

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    Omg I messed up! I took 2mg instead of one. I had cut the pill in half then a half in quarters and the first two doses were Halves of the halves. Without thinking I took the second cut off corner! That's 4mg and I still feel a bit chilled and sweaty. I'm afraid it's not working now because I wasn't a true 26!!!!!

    I swear I counted over and over to 26. I'm so upset. Please don't abandon me robert

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