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Robert can you help me I am so screwed!
  1. #31
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Go for it!
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  2. #32
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Hello, I was just checking in to say that I was fine after taking 6/6 yesterday. I took my 6 this morning. I would like to drop again if possible tomorrow? I was hoping I could keep on dropping quicker on the higher doses and then take the appropriate time on the smaller doses. My thinking behind dosing smaller again was that maybe this way I could keep some of the higher dosing out of my system. My head doesn’t like the subs… Your call though, you know what you are doing. I will hang at this dose until I hear different. Thank you for being there. You are amazing!
    Hi there....just checking on you as I said I would. Thanks again for your comments on my thread. You are really doing awesome! You should be very proud of yourself. I see that Robert has agreed with your plan and that is really great! Makes you feel like you are improving so much, and you ARE!

    Makes sense to me to drop from the high dose and Robert must agree or he would have said something. So very good thinking on your part! You continue to stay positive and we'll both be clean very soon. Won't that be so awesome?! I'll check on you again real soon. I hope you have a great day today and everyday. Thanks so much again. Blessings.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  3. #33
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Hello, I was just checking in to say that I was fine after taking 6/6 yesterday. I took my 6 this morning. I would like to drop again if possible tomorrow? I was hoping I could keep on dropping quicker on the higher doses and then take the appropriate time on the smaller doses. My thinking behind dosing smaller again was that maybe this way I could keep some of the higher dosing out of my system. My head doesn’t like the subs… Your call though, you know what you are doing. I will hang at this dose until I hear different. Thank you for being there. You are amazing!
    I wrote the wrong dose. Shut I am on 4/4 yesterday and today!

  4. #34
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I wrote the wrong dose. Shut I am on 4/4 yesterday and today!
    Cool, I will drop by 25% in the morning.

  5. #35
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I wrote the wrong dose. Shut I am on 4/4 yesterday and today!


    Honestly I would do the 4/4 one more day. You go too fast and this is going to bite you. If we do three day reductions from this point down until you get to under 2mg we'll then likely need to go to four days between drops. Even then one 8mg pill will last four days. So these pills are going to last you. You have enough meds to do this according to that plan. If you go too fast you're going to get sick in w/d. Just trying to look out for you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  6. #36
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Honestly I would do the 4/4 one more day. You go too fast and this is going to bite you. If we do three day reductions from this point down until you get to under 2mg we'll then likely need to go to four days between drops. Even then one 8mg pill will last four days. So these pills are going to last you. You have enough meds to do this according to that plan. If you go too fast you're going to get sick in w/d. Just trying to look out for you. God bless.
    Okay, I will stay another day at the 4/4, that will be day four, then I will drop after that and it sounds like I am on the regular path! Cool, I din't want to figure out if I had more/less pills. I just figured I would just get there. Thank you
    Last edited by soscrewed; 06-22-2012 at 03:06 AM.

  7. #37
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    This lack of sleep is killing me. I thought we weren't suppose to have bad cravings. I have to find something else to pop (lolly pops).

  8. #38
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Remember that we are doing this faster than I normally do it. You are going to have SOME discomfort and sleep is one. Try some Tylenol PM or an equivelant. Also know that NO ONE ever died from lack of sleep, but they have died from drug overdoses. You'll get tired enough where you fall asleep. It's the last thing that gets back to normal of all symptoms. Took me three months if I remember right to actually go to bed and just fall asleep rather than passing out from exhaustion. Hang in there! Every day will be another day closer to having your life back, which includes sleep! God bless.
    bppb, soscrewed and surfdog like this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #39
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Hello, I want to check in and let you know I am on day four of 4.5 per day (2.25/2.25) and so far so good. I started from an induction of 24 (doc wanted me to induct at 32)! But I actually feel better now than I have felt on this darn drug (the lower dose I suppose). I am getting a lot done without being able to sleep. I look like a zombie but I am getting more done than I have in a long time. I guess that is what happens when you are lucky if you sleep from 2 or 3 in the morning to maybe 6. I am certainly learning my triggers and am finding other ways of dealing with the triggers with no pills to turn to! Maybe it is good that these darn subs force you not to pop pills. I am sure I would have failed over the last couple of weeks if I didn’t have the subs as a deterrent or this forum to turn to. Hopefully I will have other methods in place for dealing these triggers before I am off the subs. I am working on it.

    Does anyone know of on online NA? I think these meetings, and perhaps the steps, would really help me but I live in a very small town that prohibits me from attending the meetings (at least if I want to get a job again. I lost my six figure job recently - due to the effects of the number of drugs I was taking - I am sure).

    Thank you so much Robert and everyone that has offered words of encouragement or pitched in your stories for me to read. Karen, your enthusiasm has been so hepful. This forum has be a life-line for me!! Really!!! I don’t know what I would have done without it the last couple of weeks (really, I would hate to think).

    Anyhow, I will taper down by 25% again tomorrow. I will be off-the-grid on a family vacation for the next week. It will be hard not having this to help, but I will do it and be back. Thanks again! God bless.
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  10. #40
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Hey So, God it is nice to see motivation, you and the girls are exhibiting want to and that is a quality we can't give you. Listen to Robert Cheeky and others they know wayyyyy more about subs than I do. You hang tough you can do this Dog
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  11. #41
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Robert, I messed up and need your advice! I went from my fourth day on 4/4 (8) to my next jump of 25%, four days ago. I started feeling bad about three days later. I started having muscle cramps, significant nausea, and fatigue. I decided I should take 1mg to see if it helped. I did and it didn’t help. I thought I might be getting sick. I wasn’t sure what it was. This morning, day four of the jump, I am feeling worse (most certainly w/ds). Feeling this bad just didn’t seem right. So, I was looking at my dose log and realized I accidently went down 50%. Yes stupid. I went from 8 to 4.5. I should have gone to 6. I still think it is a bit strange to be feeling this badwith that jump (because it still is a higher dose reduction). Anyhow, I am not sure if I should stay on 4.5 another day. Go down 25% again because I am on day 4 of this dose or go to where I should have jumped 4 days ago, to 6. Or, something else I haven’t thought of. Please give me some guidance. I am bummed I made such a stupid mistake and mystified why I feel this crappie.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 06-26-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  12. #42
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    SS ...... go back to 6mg! Doing a 50% reduction is asking for trouble and you may as well cold turkey if you do that. I would go back to 6mg, get stable again, and follow the taper plan EXACTLY as it's written. I can't emphasize enough that I can only help and guarantee optimal results when you follow the plan to the letter. It's okay if it takes a an extra day or two between reductions but reducing by 50% is totally out of the question. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #43
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    SS ...... go back to 6mg! Doing a 50% reduction is asking for trouble and you may as well cold turkey if you do that. I would go back to 6mg, get stable again, and follow the taper plan EXACTLY as it's written. I can't emphasize enough that I can only help and guarantee optimal results when you follow the plan to the letter. It's okay if it takes a an extra day or two between reductions but reducing by 50% is totally out of the question. God bless.
    Robert, I didn’t make the mistake on purpose. I was on vacation, camping without my journal. I skipped down to the next level by accident and I paid for it for a bit. I am back on schedule as far as my sub reduction and am doing fine there. I will keep going on the reduction schedule you outlined. However, I did really f*c* up! The family vacation was just too big of a trigger and I just don’t have any support in place. I can’t go to NA and I have nobody to talk to about all this. It is just me, period. I wasn’t strong enough, period, no excuses. I took several Percocet and Soma. I was told I would get sick if I did this while taking subs. I didn’t get sick and so I did it again. Now, I am wondering if it will be a delayed sickness. I know you hate using. I don’t intend to do it again. I really want a life free of medication. But I am wondering if I can expect some sort of delayed sickness because of my slip. Any thoughts?

  14. #44
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    In evaluating why I went ahead and munched percs, I believe it has a lot to do with having to take these subs. When I went on them the doc told me I could switch back to my percs any time after a twelve hour wait time. When I went on subs, I had no desire to take percs, etc. and was completely committed to it. I inducted at 24 and then found this site. It turns out I have to taper over month time frames. Taking the subs twice a day, measuring them out, etc. … it is too much like using. They also get me sick. I have had a head ache, dizziness and stomach issues since I have been on them. I took percs because of the headache and lack of sleep I am getting on these subs. I am now at 2.5 and will reduce again tomorrow. If there were a quicker reduction plan, I think I could handle not using anything better, mentally. I don’t mind some sickness and discomfort, I have it now. I would rather have it over with quicker. I am almost thinking of jumping this Friday at whatever I am on. Is there a quicker way to taper? Robert, I trust what you have to say. Is there any you can give me a quicker taper plan? I want to get where I am not taking anything, period. I get going slower to make sure you are successful. However, in my case, I think quicker will lead to more success. Please talk to me!

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    soscrewed is offline Member
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    I just read Robert’s post. I am so happy Robert will be taking care of Robert! I want to say how blessed I feel to have crossed Robert’s path. I know God put me there. I don’t think I would be here if I had not had Robert’s help the past couple of weeks. Really, wouldn’t be here. I wish you and your family all of the best. You are a Godsend! That said, I am sorry that I am probably one of the people that have angered you on this forum. I have some issues right now for sure, but I will get through them and succeed. I will succeed thanks to Robert and his information. I do intend to pay back once I have my act together. Robert thanks to you and to your family again! I owe everything to you. I hope to pay back your way someday. I pray our paths will cross again. God bless.
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  16. #46
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi SS. Don't know when Robert will get back to post to you. Are you still on the sub and only the sub? Robert told you to follow the taper plan to the letter. If you jump too soon you will get sick. Sub has a long half-life. A half life longer than percs. Be careful that you taper according to plan. You just cannot use the perc too. Are you taking 2.5 mg. twice a day, making a total of 5 mg. or 2.5 once a day? Tapering faster won't lead to a quicker success. Where are you at in your taper?

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  17. #47
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    I am at 2.5 total. I go down tomorrow. I am still splitting my dose and taking it at the correct time. So far I have been taking according to the plan except for one mistake and except for rounding because I have a hard time cutting. I have not taken anything else. I just did that yesterday and don't plan to again!

  18. #48
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I am at 2.5 total. I go down tomorrow. I am still splitting my dose and taking it at the correct time. So far I have been taking according to the plan except for one mistake and except for rounding because I have a hard time cutting. I have not taken anything else. I just did that yesterday and don't plan to again!
    How ya doing today? I get confused by this thread here, and your other thread in the "need to talk" section. But I do confuse very easily! LOL.

    It seems like you are doing much better than yesterday. Not that you were in any kind of trouble, I was just really worried about you is all. I really care about you too! Anyway just keep going and doing all the right things. I have great confidence in you. Take care and have a great day!

    Big Hugs,
    Karen

  19. #49
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I am at 2.5 total. I go down tomorrow. I am still splitting my dose and taking it at the correct time. So far I have been taking according to the plan except for one mistake and except for rounding because I have a hard time cutting. I have not taken anything else. I just did that yesterday and don't plan to again!



    Just stick to the plan. From 2.5mg you drop to 1.8mg. Just take the number of mg you're on and use a calculator and multiply the mg by .75 and that gives you the new dose dropping by 25%. Make sure you are stable before you reduce and take your time. I'll check in on you as I'm able. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  20. #50
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    Hello all. I am hoping to get some advice/input. A year ago I kicked a something like 150-200mg a day oxycodone addiction using suboxone. I was on the subs for a few months and getting off of it was pure hell. I spent the last month on subs tapering down to less than 1mg every other day and was expecting some mild w/d. Boy was I wrong, it turned out to be a week or two of awful physical symptoms and months of psychological mind games.

    Anyway, I swore up and down I would never use again, I was done for good, yadda yadda yadda, so on so forth. Sure enough I started using again 3 or 4 months ago. I sorta stumbled upon a hydromorphone connection and said "I'll do it just this one time". Sure... we've all heard that before! So now I've been doing about 18-24mg's of hydromorphone intranasally (snorting) a day. For those of you who don't know hydromorphone is about 3 to 4 times more powerful than oxycodone/hydrocodone. Well, it's time to bite the bullet and get off the stuff and clean up again. Granted, this time I am addicted to a lower dose for a shorter time period, but none the less the withdrawal is proving to be pretty bad.

    I got about 42 hours in to detoxing and I couldn't stand it anymore. I did the last 4mg's of hydromorphone I had saved in case I couldn't hack the w/d's, called a suboxone doctor, dropped the $250 dollars for a script and hit the pharmacy. Of course he prescribed me two 8mg strips a day and gave me enough for a week (14 strips). I know from previous experience that this is WAY to much suboxone to take, especially at the comparatively low dose of HM I am addicted to. Suboxone doctors are crazy with the dosing... don't get me started!

    So... here is my question. I went 42 hours into detox, then did 4mg's of hydromorphone. Then I waited 24 hours before I took a fourth of a strip of suboxone (2mg). That was about 2 hours ago. I didn't feel all that great today but it wasn't as bad as the first days. I of course feel just fine right now and I imagine that it will take me well into tomorrow before I start to feel ?????? again. I have Sunday and Monday off of work and plan to go as long as I can before taking anymore suboxone, next time I will probably take an eighth of a strip (1mg). Do you think that this will help ease my withdrawals and let me off gently if I only use suboxone a couple more times? Or, will using suboxone even just a couple times at a low dose make me addicted to that and I am in for another month or two of sub w/d?

    Any input or previous experience with using just a little suboxone to ease withdrawal pains would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.


    *** Sorry to hijack this thread, I also started my own thread with the same question. I know from experience that often times new threads never get read so I figured I would crowbar my way in somewhere else. The thread I started is called "using suboxone to help ease my withdrawal symptoms... good idea or bad?!? (or something like that!) Reply there if you prefer. Sorry again, I am really stressing this and I am desperate for input

  21. #51
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Okay, I need some advice. I took percs etc., etc. for two or three days. Sorry for my post on the need to talk section (I ended up toasted). I still would appreciate advice on how to talk myself down when I am at that drop off point. I don’t feel like I will go there again. But I know I will have to talk myself down (I don’t have anyone to call). I have to do it on my own, and should do it on my own.
    Anyhow, I also stuck to my taper plan. I was on 2.5 total when I started messing up. Anyhow, I have felt like s*** the last couple of days. I really want to continue my sub taper and get on with it. I don’t know how to get out of this tailspin. I was tapered to 1.8 but I went back up to 2.5.d to try and stabilize there. I still feel like s***. Better than yesterday and the day before but still bad. I also took a couple of slivers. Honestly, I am not sure if I took my sub doses on the using days. So I really don’t know what I can do to stabalize??? I don’t deserve advice, I know. But I would appreciate it.

  22. #52
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Again, I am really sorry about my post on the need to talk section. No excuse.

  23. #53
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Okay, I need some advice. I took percs etc., etc. for two or three days. Sorry for my post on the need to talk section (I ended up toasted). I still would appreciate advice on how to talk myself down when I am at that drop off point. I don’t feel like I will go there again. But I know I will have to talk myself down (I don’t have anyone to call). I have to do it on my own, and should do it on my own.
    Anyhow, I also stuck to my taper plan. I was on 2.5 total when I started messing up. Anyhow, I have felt like s*** the last couple of days. I really want to continue my sub taper and get on with it. I don’t know how to get out of this tailspin. I was tapered to 1.8 but I went back up to 2.5.d to try and stabilize there. I still feel like s***. Better than yesterday and the day before but still bad. I also took a couple of slivers. Honestly, I am not sure if I took my sub doses on the using days. So I really don’t know what I can do to stabilize??? I don’t deserve advice, I know. But I would appreciate it.
    I'm not certain, but it sounds like you may be having precipitated withdrawals. If you were on subs and then took some percs, and then went back to the subs that could explain the way you're feeling, but I am not certain of that.

    Please try to be patient and wait for someone with lots more experience than I to come by. Today has been real slow as I guess most weekends are, but someone WILL be here to help you I'm sure. Just make certain to NOT take anything else until you hear from one of the others.

    I hope you feel better soon my friend and don't worry about that other post. Hang in there now as best you can.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  24. #54
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    I posted because I wasn’t sure if I should keep taking the subs and wait to see if I stabilized on this dose (as I went back to my last stable dose), or if I needed to wait to score a 26 and go from there. I am indeed lost. I am thinking wait to stabilize and/or maybe go up on dose but I am not sure. Soscrewed is appropriate again! Good to hear from you Karen. You are off now aren't you? Awesome!!! How is it going??

  25. #55
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    I posted because I wasn’t sure if I should keep taking the subs and wait to see if I stabilized on this dose (as I went back to my last stable dose), or if I needed to wait to score a 26 and go from there. I am indeed lost. I am thinking wait to stabilize and/or maybe go up on dose but I am not sure. Soscrewed is appropriate again! Good to hear from you Karen. You are off now aren't you? Awesome!!! How is it going??
    Please wait to hear from someone before you do anything! I am now skipping days and I will be finished and 100% clean by a week from tomorrow (Monday) and it is going to feel so awesome!

    You can and will get there too. I know you are really feeling lousy, but you will get to feeling much better real soon with these guys help here. So hang tight. I just don't know how to advise you right now.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  26. #56
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Karen,

    I will wait and see if anybody posts. If not, I will take my evening dose before I go to bed and keep trying to stabalize. I got myself here Anyhow, I am glad you doing so good. That is awesome. You are aweso! me. Keep it up! E.M. (by the way, I am one of the women here).

  27. #57
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    Karen,

    I will wait and see if anybody posts. If not, I will take my evening dose before I go to bed and keep trying to stabalize. I got myself here Anyhow, I am glad you doing so good. That is awesome. You are aweso! me. Keep it up! E.M. (by the way, I am one of the women here).
    Nice to know you are one the Ladies here! So thank you for mentioning that. I hope someone replies to you soon. It can be scary at times and especially when you aren't feeling well. But if you can relax a bit it will help you so much. I know that's a lot to ask right now, but please try to anyway. I'll keep following along and hope you get to feeling better real soon.

    Big Hugs,
    Karen

  28. #58
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    All I have been doing the last couple of days has been thinking, thinking, thinking. I know I cannot use again. On that note, I am going to go to NA tomorrow. I won’t get a substantial job again in this town but I figure my life is worth more than that right now. I would leave town, but cannot due to my husband’s job. Anyhow, I am also going to do some exercise every day, no matter what. That is usually hard for me because of pain (strange and hard to get use to because I use to run 10 miles every day. Now I can barely walk one mile). Walk a mile I will.
    I took my evening dose of subs and will go to bed soon (not sleep). It will give me more time to think, think, think, about getting sober. I will take my morning dose in the a.m. and hopefully I will get better by trying to stabilize. I sure wish I knew for sure if I will stabilize or should cut off of them until I score a 26. If anyone has an idea, I sure would like to hear about it. I am hoping Karen is not right and this is not precipitated w/ds. Who knows, anybody.
    Also, I read somewhere here that addicts should not take drugs that affect the central nervous system. I take about 25 pills a day, some of which affect the central nervous system, no narcotics except for subs. I sure would like someone’s opinion about those. I guess I want to cut as much as I can. I have asked numerous docs about cutting but I always get the same answer to stay on them. Does anyone know where I can ask? I am really not trusting docs right now and I don’t know anything either.
    I appreciate all the answers I have gotten on this forum. I really appreciate the ability to come on this forum and read. I feel I have learned so much and have gotten a lot of motivation towards sobriety, even if I have messed up lately. So thank you everybody. And I hope to hear some suggestions about these questions.

  29. #59
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by soscrewed View Post
    All I have been doing the last couple of days has been thinking, thinking, thinking. I know I cannot use again. On that note, I am going to go to NA tomorrow. I won’t get a substantial job again in this town but I figure my life is worth more than that right now. I would leave town, but cannot due to my husband’s job. Anyhow, I am also going to do some exercise every day, no matter what. That is usually hard for me because of pain (strange and hard to get use to because I use to run 10 miles every day. Now I can barely walk one mile). Walk a mile I will.
    I took my evening dose of subs and will go to bed soon (not sleep). It will give me more time to think, think, think, about getting sober. I will take my morning dose in the a.m. and hopefully I will get better by trying to stabilize. I sure wish I knew for sure if I will stabilize or should cut off of them until I score a 26. If anyone has an idea, I sure would like to hear about it. I am hoping Karen is not right and this is not precipitated w/ds. Who knows, anybody.
    Also, I read somewhere here that addicts should not take drugs that affect the central nervous system. I take about 25 pills a day, some of which affect the central nervous system, no narcotics except for subs. I sure would like someone’s opinion about those. I guess I want to cut as much as I can. I have asked numerous docs about cutting but I always get the same answer to stay on them. Does anyone know where I can ask? I am really not trusting docs right now and I don’t know anything either.
    I appreciate all the answers I have gotten on this forum. I really appreciate the ability to come on this forum and read. I feel I have learned so much and have gotten a lot of motivation towards sobriety, even if I have messed up lately. So thank you everybody. And I hope to hear some suggestions about these questions.
    I didn't say it WAS precipitated withdrawals.....I said that it SOUNDED like it could be! I just wanted to make certain that you understand what I said correctly.

    You relay the same KIND of symptoms that those type of withdrawals display. Just wanted to clear that up. I am NO EXPERT here and was only trying to help a bit. You should wait for an expert on subs before any conclusions can be made for certain. Thank you.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  30. #60
    soscrewed is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Desire View Post
    I didn't say it WAS precipitated withdrawals.....I said that it SOUNDED like it could be! I just wanted to make certain that you understand what I said correctly.

    You relay the same KIND of symptoms that those type of withdrawals display. Just wanted to clear that up. I am NO EXPERT here and was only trying to help a bit. You should wait for an expert on subs before any conclusions can be made for certain. Thank you.

    Hugs,
    Karen
    Karen,

    No worries. You brought up precipitated w/ds and I was just indicating I hope that was not what it was. I know you didn't say it was. Again, I just hope it isn't. Poor choice of my wording perhaps. Time will tell I guess on that. I will just try to keep stabilizing. If I don't, I guess I will know and go ahead and jump. Have a good evening now. You are more of an expert than you know, now! Always good to hear from you. E.M.
    Last edited by soscrewed; 07-09-2012 at 01:04 AM.

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