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Longtime Sub abuser, Gettin' my taper on...rapidly..
  1. #1
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Thumbs up Longtime Sub abuser, Gettin' my taper on...rapidly..

    Hey Y'all...

    I've been posting on other threads but it was recomeended that I start my own thread so here it is...

    I am/was a 3+ year Sub user of about 24-32mgs a day until about 11 days ago when I got ripped off for the 3rd different time trying to buy Subs on the streets...

    I don't know exactly why this was the last straw, but it was. At that moment, I said to myself "This is it. I'm done with this %$$%"

    I have a very lovely wife, 2 small kids, and another kid on the way and I have no business taking Subs (I have no body pain) or wasting money on something so selfish and stupid as Suboxone...

    Anyways, since that day I've been on a all-out blitz to get out of this trap and return to the normal life that I used to have back in the day. I just wish I rememberd what that was like..

    My taper so far has went as follows...

    Before Dec 1st - 24-32ms/day
    Dec 2nd - 16mgs
    Dec 3rd - 16mgs
    Dec 4th - 16mgs
    Dec 5th - 4mgs
    Dec 6th - 4mgs
    Dec 7th - 4mgs
    Dec 8th - 4mgs
    Dec 9th - 4mgs
    Dec 10th - 2mgs
    Dec 11th - 2mgs
    Dec 12th - 2mgs (today)


    I will take my 2mgs later today, and then tomorrow, and then I'm going to try to drop to 1mg on Friday...

    I have enough stashed up to finish my taper with ease and still have plenty left over. This same amount that I have "stashed" up would've normally only got me through 4 or 5 days, but would now last me over 2 months in a taper plan..

    What a difference!

    And finally, why I'm here, on this forum..

    No one in my immediate life knows what I'm going through. Although I've been taperring at a rapid rate with sucess, it's still a very dificult situation to go through without somebody to talk to about it. This is not easy but I will beat this, and come out of this stronger than I was before this ridiculous habit entered my life...

    Any help and or suggestions will be much appreciated..

    -Buck
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  2. #2
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Hey Hey Buckeroo....got your own thread ey? LOL....Good for you~! I didnt mind ya using mine...its for anyone to use if they want...I lay no claim to it...LOL......
    I was gonna suggest to ya, when you get done with your taper, and your DANG sure there are Zero Issues...(wait 5-7 days) if you have any of the Subs left over....Get RID OF EM!!!!! DOnt have them "On Hand" dude....too easy to just grab a Mg or 2!!! Know what I mean Bro!!!!!
    It would be like me having a few "Blues" stashed away...(30mg Oxy's)....so take my advice and Poop-Can em!!!!!!! You will NOT be sorry Bro!!!!!!
    And THanks for the kind words on my Thread! Yeah I raised my Son all by my lonesome...his Mom (a Topless Dancer, UGH....I know I know....lol) decided early on she did NOT wanna be a Parent, and left us when "Will" was 2....and Ive raised him ever since....I was a HArd Parent, Strict, and had LOTS of Rules...but I was Fair, understanding, and very Loving and Honest with him! And it paid off THREEFOLD! He is a Good Man now, 23 yrs old, in the USCG and just a FIne Man!!!!!
    Yours will be the same man....just dont forget to instill those "Old Fashioned Values and Morals" into him EARLY!!! THAT my Friend is what 80% of the kids now adays are Sorely Lacking!!! Most of them are Self-Entitled, Selfish, ill-Mannered lil %&^&$!!!! And its the Parents to blame!
    But....thats for an entirely different forum...LOL
    Have a Great Day man!!!!
    Hair

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    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Thanks for the advice Hair...


    After spending a weekend reading most of your posts throughout your journey to cleanville, it only makes sense that you used to be with a topless dancer...I kid, I kid...


    Good thinking on flushing the extras...

    At this rate, I will probably have up to about 12 8mg strips left when I'm done with my taper..

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    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    By the way, I know it's early today still (about 10:10), but I havn't taken my dose yet today and I feel pretty good...


    I'm debating on making the jump now and ripping the band aid off all at once and sucking it up..

    The thought there is just to rush the process, and "get it over with"

    I probably would've already tried that and failed if it wasn't for you and Kikker advising me to slow my role...

    I just find it hard to "make" myself take a dose, even if I feel good, just to stay on the taper plan, but the plan has a proven track record so I'll play it out and keep y'all posted...

    I'm gonna kick this thing harder than the Buckeyes kick Michigan every last Saturday in November...


    -Buck

  5. #5
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Holy SMOKES thats a LOT of Subs you'll have left over!!!! LOL....FLUSH EM!!!!!! And Yup....I DO have an Affinity for Topless Dancers!!! LOL....Always DID.....Always WILL!!!!! LOL...
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye13 View Post
    Thanks for the advice Hair...


    After spending a weekend reading most of your posts throughout your journey to cleanville, it only makes sense that you used to be with a topless dancer...I kid, I kid...


    Good thinking on flushing the extras...

    At this rate, I will probably have up to about 12 8mg strips left when I'm done with my taper..
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  6. #6
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    hi Buck, glad u have the new thread. the thing is u have a HUGE build-up of sub in ur system right now. if u did take the jump u most likely will not feel any symptoms for several days up to a week or more due to that very long half life.

    but just when u think ur out of the woods the symptoms hit and u don't know what to do. then u are really gonna have to ride them out for days or take more sub to relieve those symptoms....either way makes u feel like u lost the battle IF that does happen.

    of course i could be entirely wrong and u be the one person that really blew right thru the taper and had no symptoms at all. it is entirely possible.

    up to u of course...i guess i'm just very cautious when it comes to this stuff. no matter what u choose to do i certainly wish u the very best with it. clean is clean and how u do it really doesn't matter so much.
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  7. #7
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikker View Post
    hi Buck, glad u have the new thread. the thing is u have a HUGE build-up of sub in ur system right now. if u did take the jump u most likely will not feel any symptoms for several days up to a week or more due to that very long half life.

    but just when u think ur out of the woods the symptoms hit and u don't know what to do. then u are really gonna have to ride them out for days or take more sub to relieve those symptoms....either way makes u feel like u lost the battle IF that does happen.

    of course i could be entirely wrong and u be the one person that really blew right thru the taper and had no symptoms at all. it is entirely possible.

    up to u of course...i guess i'm just very cautious when it comes to this stuff. no matter what u choose to do i certainly wish u the very best with it. clean is clean and how u do it really doesn't matter so much.
    Cool cool..

    I have a question about the half life..

    If the half life can be upto 72 hours, than how do you still have any build-up in your system for a potential week (that's more than 2X 72 hours) and how would I have any more build-up than the very small dose that I've taken in the past 72 hours (about 4mgs total)?

    I'm curious how it works and it would be great to here from some Sub-Veterans...

    Thanks in advance...

    -Buck

  8. #8
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    half life means that in a certain amt of time HALF the drug in ur system leaves and HALF remains....

    so IF the half life of sub is up to 72 hrs (it varies as everyone is different and depends on many factors) and u take say 4 mg of sub in one single dose, then in 72 hrs (3 days) apprx. 2 mg of sub would be gone and 2 mg would remain....

    then in another 72 hrs half of that, or 1 mg would be gone and 1 mg would remain. then it keeps repeating until it's all gone. so figuring that SINGLE 4 mg dose it would take apprx 25 - 30 days for ALL OF IT to be entirely out of ur system....and that's figuring a single 4 mg dose....

    when u keep taking the sub daily that half life keeps building and building. so u end up with a huge amt in the system....

    on Dec. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th u took 16 mgs of sub! that's 48 mgs alone in those 3 days. do u see where this is going? half keeps leaving the system, but u keep taking more so it keeps adding up. it would be very difficult to figue out exactly how much sub remains in ur system right now, but it would be a large amt most likely.

    that's why i say if u stopped right now u probably wouldn't feel any symptoms for several days due to the build up of sub in ur system. i'm not trying to frighten u at all Buck, only explaining what many don't realize.

    IF in ur case that half life was to be 36 hrs then those times would be halved and it might take 12 - 15 days for a single 4 mg dose to leave entirely. add more sub to that and the times drag out.

    this is why a sub therapy program is suggested for a short term, and the induction be at the lowest effective dose possible. that would eliminate that huge build up of sub in those that take large amts for long periods of time. hope i made sense.
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  9. #9
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Buck, I can only reply about vics and those are a far cry from the subs. Vics have a half life of around 4 hours which means that it takes that long for the hydrocodone to break down in your system, so it takes about 16-24 hours to break down in your system. It takes longer to totally mebabolize all the drug in your system. After about the first day the fun of w/d starts. Now your body has to learn to live w/o the "poison" in your system. Vicodin w/d is like a very bad flu, and the worst parts are the lethargy, RLS, and insomnia for some.

    With suboxone the pharmacology is different and it takes around 72 hours for the subs to break down and much longer to fully metabolize out of your system. The w/d symptoms are much harsher and take longer. Depending on the amount you are taking and how long you've been taking them. It is not so much getting the sub out of your body, but getting your body to function w/o the subs. Thus the sweats, RLS, lethargy, insomnia. Everyone is different. I do know that sub w/d is much worse than vic w/d because subs stay in your system longer and take longer to break down.

    I know you want to be done and you want to be off of the sub as soon as possible, but kikker is absolutely right jumping off of 1mg. is way too high. But it is your choice. Best of luck.

    Peace,

    Iloerose
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  10. #10
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Makes alot of sense...

    I just needed it explained like that to me to fully understand...

    I will re-adjust my expectations and stay strong throughout this journey, whether that's the next 2-3 weeks, or 2-3 months, or longer...

    I will win this, especially with the help of you guys..

    I really appreciate the knowledge and suggestions on the situation..

    I'm not affraid of withdrawals. I'm actually challenging the withdrawals to come and give me their best shot so I can laugh in their face, but so far, not much...

    I'm going to slay this dragon...

    I wonder if I have a long half life, thus limiting my early withdrawals??

    Either way, this is coming to an end..


    -Buck

  11. #11
    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Buck glad to see you started your own thread. Im happy for you that your rapid detox is going well so far. Maybe your one in a million that can stop now and get by with it. Kikker and Rose both pointed out to you a couple things for you. I have read on this site and a couple of other sites a ton of threads and this is just my guess from what ive read. If you jump off now after being on such a high dose for a long period of time in a few days you will feel like a train hit you. I have a friend that was on 8 mg for about 8 months then tried a quick 1 week taper with 2 8 mg strips because she couldnt get anymore and she went thru hell. She was unable to work for a week and then she barely was able to go back to work the following 2 weeks. Of course i see you have a stash built up and you can always just restart i guess. Anyway best of luck to you with whatever you decide Buck. Im just about to head out the door now as im going out of town for a couple of days so ill check on you when i get back.
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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    I posted my last post befor i saw where you had reposted Buck. I think you are makeing a good choice there.

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    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Thanks for the advise Al..

    Just got back from my lunch break...

    I went to Kroger and bought 3 32-pack's of water, and a bottle of one-a-day vitamins...


    New drug of choice........H2O

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    By the way Al, without being too specific, what part of OH-IO are you in ?/

    I'm in central Ohio...

    I'm guessing your a northeastern....maybe Youngstown area..

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    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Thumbs up

    Just took my 1st 1mg dose for today at about 2:00...

    That's by far the lastest in the day that I've went "without" since......forever..



    #VictoryIsOnTheHorizon

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    Well, today is my final day at 2mgs, before dropping to 1mg tomorrow for 4 days...

    I don't even want/need to take 2mgs today, but I feel obligated to from the advice that I've been blessed with on this site...

    Last night, I made myself take another 1mg dose at about 8:00, just because that's what the "plan" was supposed to be. I didn't feel right taking what I thought to be an un-necessary dose, but it will probably help me get through today a little better than I would've without it...

    I'm dropping to 1mg tomorrow because that will be 2 weeks in the taper and I'm as stable as stable can be in this situation...


    #StarringDownTheEvils

  17. #17
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    at these lower doses it's important to take the same amt at the same time each day. that will keep a steady flow of sub in ur system at all times. don't take it when u feel like it. make ur schedule that works best for u and stick with it to the end of the taper.

    some ppl like to take one single dose and some like to split the doses. it's what works best for u that matters. i like to split the doses over 1 mg myself and them take one dose under 1 mg.

    if u do split ur dose maybe take the am dose around 8-10 and the afternoon dose about 4-6 pm. u can adjust it to fit ur work or wake-up schedule or what ever works best for u.

    some ppl like to take the single dose all the way thru and that's perfectly ok also. again, it's what works best for u and is a personal choice. as long as ur reducing the dose it's all good.
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  18. #18
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikker View Post
    at these lower doses it's important to take the same amt at the same time each day. that will keep a steady flow of sub in ur system at all times. don't take it when u feel like it. make ur schedule that works best for u and stick with it to the end of the taper.

    some ppl like to take one single dose and some like to split the doses. it's what works best for u that matters. i like to split the doses over 1 mg myself and them take one dose under 1 mg.

    if u do split ur dose maybe take the am dose around 8-10 and the afternoon dose about 4-6 pm. u can adjust it to fit ur work or wake-up schedule or what ever works best for u.

    some ppl like to take the single dose all the way thru and that's perfectly ok also. again, it's what works best for u and is a personal choice. as long as ur reducing the dose it's all good.
    Thanks for the tip Kikker...

    What I'm trying to do now is slowly and gradually push back my dose later in the day so when I get do get down to one dose per day, my body will be ready to make it to the afternoon "without" and the later dose should help with sleep...

    So far in this process, my sleep has been great. I lay my head down on the pillow, take about 2 deep breaths, and it's morning. It really ticks my wife off when we head into bed and literally 90 seconds later I'm snoring....ha

    Right now though, she's 5 months pregnant and has trouble laying on her back/side, so she's been sleeping out on the reclining couch. Having the bed to myself has been a big plus to my taper sucess so far because I don't have to go into bed worrying that I might be laying there all night sweating and kicking the sheets all night (remember, she isn't aware of my longterm Sub use or the fact that I'm getting my taper on) and bothering her throughout the night...

    Those small tips that you pass on may not seem like much to somebody that's not going through this, but your tips are what is helping guide me through this. I can't thank you enough for the advice that you've given me and when the glorious day comes when I'm 100% clean of this, I will owe you all so much. I just wish I had some way to pay you back for your support..

    Thanks again kikk..

    -Buck

  19. #19
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    tks for the kind words Buck, but u can thank all of US by getting urself clean. i'm just passing on what was given freely to me here. i'm paying it forward as best i can. if any of my advice and suggestions helps another addict get themselves clean and enjoying the kind of life they deserve that is tks enough.
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  20. #20
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Well, I've got through this work day feeling really good. I took about .8mg this morning and will take my other 1.2mgs (bad cut on my part left me with an uneven 2mg so I took the smaller dose 1st) in about an hour to help me get through my bowling tonight...

    I also figured that the later in the day I waited to take this 2nd dose, the more it might help me tomorrow for my drop to 1mg...

    I hope tomorrow goes well, and I think it will...

    Wish me luck y'all..

    #StayingPositiveIsHalfTheBattle

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    Well.....I gotta slight hangover this morning...

    I drank about 10-12 beers lastnight at the bowling alley and 2 jager bombers (1st time drinking since the taper began) and I feel a little foggy this morning...

    This is when I would usually just grab a 8mg strip, slam it down, and if I didn't feel better in an hour or 2, grab another, slam it down, and repeat...

    I'm probably up against one of my tougher days today but I'm just going to take my vitamin, slam down about 4 or 5 bottles of water, and hold off my dose until the afternoon...

    #DayOneOfDroppingTo1mg

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    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    I found a couple interesting charts on google that I thought I would share...

    Keep in mind these are probably not 100% accurate, but this one helps understand the half-life of Suboxone...





    This one right here shows us the problem with our society and doctors way over prescribing Suboxone to their patients....



  23. #23
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Well, day one of my drop to 1mg is going ok...

    I just took my dose at noon, and I'm not feeling bad at all...



    Hope tonight goes well...


    Anybody out there today?


    -Buck

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye13 View Post
    By the way Al, without being too specific, what part of OH-IO are you in ?/

    I'm in central Ohio...

    I'm guessing your a northeastern....maybe Youngstown area..
    Southeast part Buck. Im right on the WV Ohio border. I see your rapid detox is going well so far. Pretty amazing that its going so well for you. Keep up the good work

  25. #25
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexnt View Post
    Southeast part Buck. Im right on the WV Ohio border. I see your rapid detox is going well so far. Pretty amazing that its going so well for you. Keep up the good work
    That's cool..

    I'm in Lancaster so we are probably less than an hour or so drive from each other...

    Keep on kicking this thing in the rear Al...


    -Buck

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    Well....I made it through my first day at 1mg....

    I was pretty sore last night, but never really had what I would call withdrawals...

    It was a little rough, but I will try to stay at 1mg today as well...

    If I struggle to get throughthe day, I might re-adust my taper and bump back up to 1.5mgs for a couple days, and then drop back down to 1mg...

    I have a fricken Ugly Sweater Christmas Party to go to tonight with a ton of my friends from HS, so I know I might have a difficult night ahead of me. If I feel tonight, the way I did lastnight, I will have to take another sliver to get through the dang party...

    This would be my 1st time going in the wrong direction, but as many of you have said, the drops with the smaller doses are usually the hardest..

    If you would've told me a couple of weeks ago (when I was taking 32mgs on the regular) that I would be kicking myself for potentially taking 1.5mgs in a day, instead of 1mg, I would never ever believed it..


    -Buck


    #StillPositive

  27. #27
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    ur setting up a nasty pattern for urself Buck. u mentioned in the other post that u needed some sub to "help get thru ur bowling that night" and now u think u need a sliver to "get thru a party" it seems. that is without a doubt very strong addictive thinking and behavour....

    u don't take subs to get u thru anything....sub are meant to be taken to curb withdrawals and cravings. ur gonna run into trouble doing things like that....

    YES, u are going in the WRONG DIRECTION and need to stop it immediately.....

    take the sub as the taper is intended....same dose at the same time and no more.

    those huge doses u were on and huge reductions have given u the wrong impression of things.

    yes, u have done great reducing from 32 mgs to where u are now. that is very commendable, but like i told u the small doses can get tricky and u don't want to be messing with things.

    get back to taking a dose, get stable for 4-7 days or whatever it takes and then reduce by 25% and keep repeating. don't take more sub at odd times for pleasure, or a sliver when it's not needed.

    u may begin to run into rough stretches if u continue doing it that way. hate to see u suffer if it could be avoided. just my opinion ok.
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  28. #28
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    just a note of support to you .. difficult things are never easy but in the end its worth every nightmarish minute you have to endure.. if i can, anyone can.. you got this.
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  29. #29
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    I Agree with Kikker WHOLEheartedly!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikker View Post
    ur setting up a nasty pattern for urself Buck. u mentioned in the other post that u needed some sub to "help get thru ur bowling that night" and now u think u need a sliver to "get thru a party" it seems. that is without a doubt very strong addictive thinking and behavour....

    u don't take subs to get u thru anything....sub are meant to be taken to curb withdrawals and cravings. ur gonna run into trouble doing things like that....

    YES, u are going in the WRONG DIRECTION and need to stop it immediately.....

    take the sub as the taper is intended....same dose at the same time and no more.

    those huge doses u were on and huge reductions have given u the wrong impression of things.

    yes, u have done great reducing from 32 mgs to where u are now. that is very commendable, but like i told u the small doses can get tricky and u don't want to be messing with things.

    get back to taking a dose, get stable for 4-7 days or whatever it takes and then reduce by 25% and keep repeating. don't take more sub at odd times for pleasure, or a sliver when it's not needed.

    u may begin to run into rough stretches if u continue doing it that way. hate to see u suffer if it could be avoided. just my opinion ok.

  30. #30
    Buckeye13 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikker View Post
    ur setting up a nasty pattern for urself Buck. u mentioned in the other post that u needed some sub to "help get thru ur bowling that night" and now u think u need a sliver to "get thru a party" it seems. that is without a doubt very strong addictive thinking and behavour....

    u don't take subs to get u thru anything....sub are meant to be taken to curb withdrawals and cravings. ur gonna run into trouble doing things like that....

    YES, u are going in the WRONG DIRECTION and need to stop it immediately.....

    take the sub as the taper is intended....same dose at the same time and no more.

    those huge doses u were on and huge reductions have given u the wrong impression of things.

    yes, u have done great reducing from 32 mgs to where u are now. that is very commendable, but like i told u the small doses can get tricky and u don't want to be messing with things.

    get back to taking a dose, get stable for 4-7 days or whatever it takes and then reduce by 25% and keep repeating. don't take more sub at odd times for pleasure, or a sliver when it's not needed.

    u may begin to run into rough stretches if u continue doing it that way. hate to see u suffer if it could be avoided. just my opinion ok.
    Thanks for the advice Kikker...

    A bit brutaly honest, but certainly necessary...

    I've actually done really good though. I didn't take more for bowling, I simple pushed my dose back later in the day....


    Thanks again buddy. Keep me straight...

    -Buck

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