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I can't handle this anymore! ugh
  1. #1
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Unhappy I can't handle this anymore! ugh

    I have somewhat of an unusual case here.. I was addicted to cannabinoids (synthetic research chemicals) my psychiatrist didn't know how to help me get off them, so he asked me if I would like to try subutex, being an addict (but never opiates, just weed/cannabinoids really) ) I jumped at the chance to try anything, he started me on 8mg subutex and we worked up to 24mg a day I take it all at night, I have been tapering off by my choice as he's fine to keep me on it as long as I wanted but I hate opiates I have now come to find out, I have worked down to 14mg going down 2mg a time for a month each taper down dose. 5 days ago I went down to 12mg I don't know how much longer I can take the crying every night, the anxiety which I already have a major mental health problem with. Tapering as I have been I have 6 more months at least of this hell.. I don't know if I can take tapering any more.... I'm a stay at home dad with a 17 month old any help would be a God send. Here is a list of my medications I am on to better get help:

    Morning:
    Omeprazole - 20mg
    Synthroid - 0.05mg (50 micrograms)
    Lamotrigine - 150mg

    Mid-Day:
    Derma-smoothe/FS - 0.01% topical oil
    (for psoriasis on elbows)

    Night:
    Klonopin - 3mg
    Subutex - 12mg

    Thanks, Trevor.

  2. #2
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorlay View Post
    I have somewhat of an unusual case here.. I was addicted to cannabinoids (synthetic research chemicals) my psychiatrist didn't know how to help me get off them, so he asked me if I would like to try subutex, being an addict (but never opiates, just weed/cannabinoids really) ) I jumped at the chance to try anything, he started me on 8mg subutex and we worked up to 24mg a day I take it all at night, I have been tapering off by my choice as he's fine to keep me on it as long as I wanted but I hate opiates I have now come to find out, I have worked down to 14mg going down 2mg a time for a month each taper down dose. 5 days ago I went down to 12mg I don't know how much longer I can take the crying every night, the anxiety which I already have a major mental health problem with. Tapering as I have been I have 6 more months at least of this hell.. I don't know if I can take tapering any more.... I'm a stay at home dad with a 17 month old any help would be a God send. Here is a list of my medications I am on to better get help:

    Morning:
    Omeprazole - 20mg
    Synthroid - 0.05mg (50 micrograms)
    Lamotrigine - 150mg

    Mid-Day:
    Derma-smoothe/FS - 0.01% topical oil
    (for psoriasis on elbows)

    Night:
    Klonopin - 3mg
    Subutex - 12mg

    Thanks, Trevor.
    Trevor ..... Welcome to the forum. You have been taking entirely too much of the Subutex from the beginning and even now! Doctors don't care how much or how long you are on it as it is a huge money-maker for them. You are most likely feeling the way you do because of the large amount of Subutex that you are taking. Drop it down to a respectful level as soon as you can and I will bet you will begin to feel much better.

    I would highly suggest that you reduce your dose to 8mg total daily dose right away. And take that in two separate doses of 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the afternoon. Take it at the same times each day. Then when you become stable with that you reduce your dose by 25% every 4 days or so until you get down to a dose in the 0.25mg range.

    I will put the link below to how we do it on this forum. It is outlined as I stated above. This has worked for many people here that will testify to it's ability to get you clean in a very short time. Read the link carefully and if you have further questions then please post again. Someone will always be here to help you. Hope this helps.......Denny

    Sub Induction and Taper Plan
    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

  3. #3
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Exclamation

    I should have probably noted that I have been tapering down from the 24mg from when I 1st took it till now 12mg has been about 18 months, if going down from 14mg to 12mg feels this bad (nausea, muscle pain, random crying, severe depression and am now having panic attacks again at night.. My shrink told me to go down by even less than 2mg when I go down I was the one who choose 2mg he would rather it be more like half mg going down once a month..

    P.s : when I tried going from taking it all at night to twice a day I really freaked out, I was fighting with my wife hated life if I have not felt the sting of suicide and know how much it hurts loved ones, i'm not sure I would be here, suicide will never be an option for me. I don't know if i'm mentally strong enough for this.
    Last edited by trevorlay; 03-02-2012 at 05:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    trevor ..... Here is a link about these drugs you were taking.

    http://www.biopsychiatry.com/cannabinoids.htm

    What kind of an idiot dr are you seeing that would put you on subutex at any dose, especially 24mg a day, when you aren't even using opiates. Then he tells you to take it all at night? This stuff is basically THC which is found in POT!!!! Did this dr graduate from Sears?

    I would file a medical malpractice suit against this fool immediately unless there is something you aren't telling us. Is there anything else to this story? I find it hard to believe that a bonafide, educated dr of any kind would prescribe subutex for this. What's up?
    Last edited by Robert_325; 03-02-2012 at 05:16 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    Suboxowned is offline Member
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    "Did this dr graduate from Sears?"
    Robert, you crack me up...........I needed a good laugh today.

    Thnx
    Aud

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suboxowned View Post
    "Did this dr graduate from Sears?"
    Robert, you crack me up...........I needed a good laugh today.

    Thnx
    Aud




    Either this dr is an idiot or something isn't being shared. I was serious! This is stupid for a dr to be able to do this to someone.
    trevorlay and Suboxowned like this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    pilot44 is offline New Member
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    trevorlay
    being a newbie here myself, i hesitate to offer advice but i think you should make two phone calls: one, to find a new psych and two, to find a good malpractice attorney. your story is incredulous. read the posts and you'll find great advise on detox processes.

  8. #8
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Nothing i'm not sharing, I have been on over 50 prescriptions throughout my life since age 5.. Mostly for depression and anxiety have tried things for adhd and bipolar and even anti psychotics for off label uses, he didn't put me on them per say, I did have to agree to take them and sign a paper saying I wouldn't share them our abuse them.. Only thing I can think I have mentioned is the names of the synthetic cannaboids , jwh-250 jwh-018, and a few I forget, it started with "spice" then I went to smoke the pure chemical.. Bad idea they are ask way more ponent that thc. I like my shrink and have been to him for 10 years or so.. He is fairly young but I feel he has the best intentions.

  9. #9
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Ah I think this may be the missing piece to the puzzle, 5 plus years ago I did abuse opiates a hand full of times and he knew about that. But i'm talking one a month every few monthsmaybe 5 times I don't like how they make me feel at all.. :/

    Edit: I think he did tell me to take twice a day but I choose just one dose a day. But he did know that. Well I think sometimes I have to remind him cause always trying new meds...
    Last edited by trevorlay; 03-02-2012 at 06:19 PM.

  10. #10
    pilot44 is offline New Member
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    Default trevorlay

    wow, that makes things tough. maybe your psych is real good on the psychotherapy side but kinda weak on the pharmacological side. in any event i don't think any reputable MD would put anyone on subutex but for treating opiate dependance or perhaps pain management. you need to deal with your detox issues primarily. so concentrate on that. as you gather information you will begin to see how wrong it was to put you on this medication. the 5 years ago opiate usage is a non-issue.
    Robert_325 likes this.

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevorlay View Post
    Ah I think this may be the missing piece to the puzzle, 5 plus years ago I did abuse opiates a hand full of times and he knew about that. But i'm talking one a month every few monthsmaybe 5 times I don't like how they make me feel at all.. :/

    Edit: I think he did tell me to take twice a day but I choose just one dose a day. But he did know that. Well I think sometimes I have to remind him cause always trying new meds...


    Using opiates a couple times five years ago doesn't qualify. You may adore your shrink, he may have the best of intentions, but that doesn't mean he isn't an idiot.

    You are NOT a candidate for suboxone in ANY dose based on what you've shared. He should be turned in to the AMA and receive disciplinary action for doing this if that is the story.

    I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just saying based on what you've stated this dr is WRONG big time and should be dealt with by authorities. Don't know what else to tell you as you are so attached to him. God bless.
    trevorlay likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  12. #12
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Unhappy

    I admit I am angry that he made it sound like it was going to be easy and painless "for most people he prescribed it too" and says I must be really sensitive to it, I got on this to get off an addiction that I thought was bad, but this is a million times worse to get off, I wish I had the money to do the medical detox where they sedate you and clean it all out if your system.. I would also like to get off the klonopin but that's just especially hard for me.. But I did manage to get off the 8-10mg xanax (Disney land with my wifes family on new years, omg an anxiety nightmare! ) he let me take as much as I wanted so I could cope and he said we would get of it when the trip was over. I wish I never met benzos or subutex.. I'm really angry about the lack of knowledge about dependency had I know.. Maybe life would be much more manageable, any ways i've kind of gone off topic here, but has any one done the sedated detox? That would be a dream... Specially if it worked for opiates and benzos.. Sigh I sometimes feel like a lab rat...

  13. #13
    pilot44 is offline New Member
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    i did the rapid opiate detoxification under anethesia many years ago and it worked really well for me. absolutely no w/ds (that you know about). went 15 years w/o opiates. don't know if it works for benzos. and it could be dangerous for some people. i think there are some reports of deaths. there is another post here somewhere from someone who went thru the procedure just this week. they might could give you info about how its currently done. hope you do well.

  14. #14
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Thumbs down

    I had severe chest pains last night, so bad I thought I was having a heart attack and may die, so I had my parents take me to the E.R. , they did an EKG and chest x-ray and ruled out heart attack. They said it was just a panic attack is their best guess and maybe I was going down on the subutex to fast, they treated me like I was a junkie, kept asking me if I used >>>>>>, "no" never did iv drugs? "..no.." Smoke >>>>>>? "NO! " well why are you on subutex? I told them and the one Dr. said that subutex was not for spice withdrawal, at this point I think he just figured me for lier is how I felt.. Later on he wanted to admit me because he said he didn't like that I was do shaky and wanted to help get me off subutex, but then the "family services" dr. came and said I don't think you need to stay you look ok to go home and my mother asked him if he thought it was weird that I was prescribed subutex. He said, "well did it help at all? I said maybe at 1st to help me get off spice, but I have been way worse coming down on it and he says"well go back up to the previous dose till you see you're psych on Tuesday as he's the expert on this" at this point I was just pissed off, we asked about the sedated detox and he said it was only for severe cases" my dad was like well what the hell is a severe case then? " he said"where people have tremors and electrolite problems and such" so anyways they sent me home about 6 hours later. They gave me IV tramadol I beleave it was and ativan, I took a nap and now my whole body is so stiff and very painful. I am losing all hope when it comes to Drs .. he also said this was going to be a life long struggle and it's not easy there are rehabs and things but they are expensive. still just treating me like a junkie... Going to try and get hold of a pain management clinic he said they may be able to give me a different opinion other than my shrinks.. So I guess we will see what comes about in the next week.. Thanks all for the suggestions I'll be spending a lot if time researching this week, and at this point i'm so pissed off I just might try and find a lawyer to see if I have a case... Medical bills are pilling up because if this drug from hell... Thanks again every one..

  15. #15
    pilot44 is offline New Member
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    you don't need sedated withdrawal. you need a substance abuse clinic that can give you some valid options, advice and some real hope. so far, apparently, you've found nothing but uninformed quacks. check with your county or state mental health services for some recommended programs. where are you?

    you can tell from the posts on this website this subutex thing can be beaten without serious difficulty. again good luck. keep us posted.

  16. #16
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by ddcmod; 03-04-2012 at 10:22 PM.

  17. #17
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by pilot44 View Post
    you don't need sedated withdrawal. you need a substance abuse clinic that can give you some valid options, advice and some real hope. so far, apparently, you've found nothing but uninformed quacks. check with your county or state mental health services for some recommended programs. where are you?

    you can tell from the posts on this website this subutex thing can be beaten without serious difficulty. again good luck. keep us posted.
    I live in Provo Utah, aka "happy valley"
    There are 2 universities within 5 miles from my house, university of Utah & BYU. Most of the doctors have been pretty young, probably fresh out of one of the universities.. >

  18. #18
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    trevorlay......read ur thread last nite, idk why my last post was deleted...alls i said was that your doctor is out of control in terms of the amount of suboxone he gave you. I know your prob. discouraged right now....but just know that if you really want off then this is the place to be. It seems like you have been taking way too many medications for far too long.
    trevorlay likes this.

  19. #19
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Red face

    I See him tomorrow, my wife and father are going with me, we are most defiantly going to get a second opinion as soon as we can find some one who has some real world experience, and I'll know if they agree with a kit of things every one has said here they may actually be a good Dr.. Wish me luck, I have printed the COWS sheet and the guide in the above link. Thanks for all if your time it means a lot to me! I'll let you know how things go later this week...

  20. #20
    cOsMiCtRiGgEr is offline Member
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    Default What???

    This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Trev... First let me say you found the right place... These guys that are responding to you are far more experienced than this doctor. I just went through my Suboxone induction yesterday. Robert helped me through that and it went swimmingly. The doctor prescribed me 24mg per day... Do you know how much I was actually able to induce at and feel in tip top shape??? 2mg.. Yes TWO WHOLE MGs! I have been taking methadone, oxycodone and oxymorohone (opana) for two years straight...and have been addicted to one form of opiate or another for almost 15 years! And even for me I was able to induce and stabilize at 2mg. I cant imagine what that doctor was thinking. "Ok.. So you're addicted to cannibinoids.. Hmm... Well my years of medical training and expertise suggest that I should put you on a massive dose of a chemical used to treat something completely unrelated.. Trust me.. I'm a doctor." Just be happy he/she didn't think it wise to put you on chemotherapy... This would be an equally stupid jump... I wouldn't put it past them.

    All that said... Trevor... Robert has outlined a means to an end... A way in which you can taper down with minimal discomfort. From reading on these forums this taper methodology has helped no less than 100's of people and can help you too! Just know there is hope! The light at the end of the tunnel has been illuminated just as you made that account and first post! I know it's hard to do now.. But be happy.. Freedom awaits friend!

    I am on the cusp of getting well.. Many of these folks have been clean for years! If we can do it.. You can too! Good luck! I know you will succeed!
    Kristin13, trevorlay and DDAVE45 like this.

  21. #21
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    So I got back from the shrink today, I didn't confront him it anything I just plan on finding a 2nd opinion 1st then possibly just changing shrinks, any ways he gave me 60 if the 2mg and 60 8Mg he wants me to go down 1mg rather than 2mg at a time. He also gave me 60 Guanfacine 1mg pills to help when I go down "i'm not sure about taking them yet, need to do some research on them" and 30 10mg ambien to help sleep. He said if the Guanfacine doesn't help we can raise my klonopin (which I don't really want to do..) Somy mom got some contacts of sine pain clinics and stuff so hopefully I will have a competent Dr soon.. He also said part of why he put me on subutex was for off label use if help with depression and that they are working on dine anti depressents that work on opiod receptors.. Scary thought... That's all the news for now... Thanks every one!

  22. #22
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Sorry for all the misspelling, using Swype on my cell phone... I would have edited it but it won't let me so..ya

  23. #23
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    trev......it seems this doc will prescribe you just about anything and everything!! its actually ridiculous...if your trying to get off the subs, you dont want to do it by taking all these other medications.

  24. #24
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Ya, kinda I did ask for something to help sleep and anything that may help with the withdrawals. He was going to use clonadine instead of the guanfacin but I had stoke weird sleep problems when I was on it before. He pretty much is ok prescribing me almost anything, other then xanax, and he wouldn't prescribe me marinol.. lol... Can any one suggest any meds that may be helpful for next time I go down? I'm still trying to find a place for a second opinion but have not had any luck yet.. I would do the COWS and reinduction from the link in the posts above but with all my mental problems I want to have a wise medical Dr. on hand just encase I get in a panic attack and depressed so much I do something stupid.. It sounds like it's helped a lot of people and I hope when the time comes it can help me too, i'm just very nervous right now as I have not felt stable for awhile now... Thanks again every one who has commented. I hope you are all doing well in you're own recovery..

  25. #25
    trevorlay is offline New Member
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    Post update

    So I have only been able to get a hold of one person do far, but they only did inpatient rehab. But we got some names of people to call he was in shock about my story and wanted me to report my shrink he had to call us back he consulted with three of his colleagus before calling us bask and they all said they have never heard of this happing before and they run a rehab center... My mother wad the one who did most of the talking on the phone with him, he I guess said he did not know how I was going to get off it without some sort of treatment and that we may have to open a malpractice suit to pay for all the bills I have raked up and the money i'm going to need to get off this stuff safely with my history of depression and anxiety, he sounded very worried about it all.. ( when I wad younger I was hospitalized 3 times for attempted suicide.. But I know that'd moo longer an option after having a sister of mine attempt twice, both times I have been there to find her. So i'm not the must stable minded individual, so I don't feel safe just doing the method many have suggested here, not bedside I don't think it could work but I need some where to turn if things get to much for me to handle, I wish it where different, but I hope you can understand why i'm still trying to find a good doctor who can be there to walk this road with me, I will must defiantly ask about the cows reinduction. Thank you every one for the kind words and advice! It has helped to open my eyes a fair bit! Wishing all else who are on this hellish path well, love, Trevor.

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