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Can suboxone be used to get off tramadol addiction?
  1. #1
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Default Can suboxone be used to get off tramadol addiction?

    Hello,

    I'm fairly new to the forum, but been lurking/researching quite a bit. This is my first post, so here's the story. I have been taking a very high dose of tramadol for a little more than 3 yrs and have failed numerous times trying to taper or just go cold turkey. I read on that huge tramadol thread that folks had great success using suboxone to detox from tramadol. So with much anxiety and hesitation, I did a internet search for suboxone doctors in my area and found one that seemed reputable so i made an appt. It was a called "Compas Health" and I beleive it was an outpatient clinic. Long story short, the doctor said he couldn't help me because I was on too high a dose of tram and he could not prescribe suboxone on top of that. Does that seem right? I mean, I thought that was the whole point, to use sub to get off of other drugs. He advised me to enter a 5 day detox program then outpatient, but would not prescribe me any suboxone. To be clear, my plan was to get the suboxone and try the "Robert" method I've read about on this forum. But I have not read about many people using it to come off of tramadol.

    Is this something that I can do and does anybody have any advice or experience using suboxne to get off of Tramadol?

    This is all just so overwhelming, but I can no longer continue the way I have been going, my tram addiction has basically ruined my life.

    Thanks for any help/advice/replies.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Hello and welcome to the forum! You have certainly come to the right place for advice and suggestions. I am not any kind of expert here, but I will tell you what I have learned by reading around the forum myself.

    Tramadol is highly addictive as you know, and it should never be stopped abruptly! You risk the very real chance of a seizure taking place. It has to be tapered down very slowly to prevent this from happening. Like I said, this is what I have read here others advising people to do.

    And you are right, the subs ARE used to prevent withdrawal symptom from just about every drug there is. But they must be used correctly. I personally don't believe that you need to enter any detox facility. That doctor sounds like they gave you incorrect information. But again, I am no expert on anything here. I am using subs right now with Robert's help and almost to the end of my taper.

    In my humble opinion, I believe that you need to get your dose down from the tramadol very slowly by taking less and less of the pills every 3-4 days or so. Just like the sub taper would suggest. Then when you get to where you are completely off the tramadol, you could be inducted with the subs.

    Some may suggest that if you are able to taper your dose down with the tramadol and get it to the absolute lowest dose possible, you might be able to just jump from that tiny dose and go the cold turkey route. It seems that most here recommend that approach first before anything else if it can be done. I could never taper and never make it going cold turkey, so the subs were my only choice at the time. Best decision I ever made!

    Think it over and wait for more responses. I may be completely out of my league suggesting anything to you, but wanted you to know that someone was here and really cared about it, and you! It has been real slow here today so please be very patient, but others WILL be here and give you their opinions. I just want to make it perfectly clear that I am a new beginner and you should take the advice of someone with much more experience than I have right now.

    You take care and I wish you the very best. Hang tight and relax as you wait for more replies. Talk to you again real soon. Blessings to you.

    Big Hugs,
    Karen
    Last edited by Strong Desire; 07-06-2012 at 12:42 AM.

  3. #3
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Thank you for your reply Karen! I just read your experience with Robert and the induction last night. I am glad to here you are doing well, you are truly an inspiration for me and, I'm sure, many more "lurkers" out there your post is actually what made me ask if I could have the same possibility with suboxone. I was in w/d a bit last night and remember in reading your post thinking how difficult it must have been just typing and waiting for Robert's next reply (while he was outside in 100 degree heat doing yard work

    I don't want to say I'm not able to taper, because I feel like it is my only option right now. But I've failed so many times before trying to taper and it sometimes has a negative psychological impact due to the failure, not able to just "get it done already", feeling weak etc. I am just hoping suboxone can give me the edge to get over the "tapering' hump.

    In the meantime, I am committed to tapering every 4-5 days, 10%, as advised. I have made some progress there, albeit over the course of 3-4 months and not trying as hard I as I should. But if nothing else, those days are over now - its forward or nothing.

    Thanks again,
    - Lien
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:25 PM.

  4. #4
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Lien:

    Karen, I have to disagree with this, even though I know you have the best intentions!
    "In my humble opinion, I believe that you need to get your dose down from the tramadol very slowly by taking less and less of the pills every 3-4 days or so. Just like the sub taper would suggest. Then when you get to where you are completely off the tramadol, you could be inducted with the subs."

    Karen is a great example of what a positive attitude and subs can do for addiction! She is also a great motivator, Always seems to have a smile, however: Although tramadol may act like an opiate in the body, it also acts like a benzo drug. Benzo drugs have different w/d symptoms than opiates. Your doctor was right: You could have seizures if you stop without tapering. There is no sense tapering your tramadol and then going on suboxone. No purpose to it whatsoever. You need to taper your tramadol slowly, jumping off completely, at least enough to score high enough on the COWS worksheet means you risk seizures.

    "I am just hoping suboxone can give me the edge to get over the "tapering' hump."

    You cannot use suboxone to get over the "taper" hump. You will be very sick if you do that.
    I know how hard it is to taper anything, believe me, but you need to taper the tramodol like you would taper any other benzo: xanax, valium, etc.

    Read through the tramadol forum. Post often! We'll be here to cheer you on!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  5. #5
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your reply Iloerose . . . I've heard tramadol has an ssri component but this is the first I've heard it acts like a benzo too. I'm aware of the seizure risk, its what the doc was concerned with. He did say that it is good I haven't had a seizure in the past 3 yrs as it suggests I'm not seizure prone (not to say it can't happen).

    My problem has always been getting below a certain level. Is it possible to taper down to a more manageable level and then take a small dose of suboxone (.5mg) concurrently with the tramadol while tapering down to single digits and eventually every other day or so? and the of course, God willing, NONE.

    I will head over to the Tramadol forum as well. Thanks again for the replies, I truly appreciate all the advice and words of encouragement.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I have read over this thread and not noticed what your tramadol dose is currently. Trams work on the exact same brain receptors as other opiates and I've personally helped lots of people get off trams with subs. Just need to know how much you're using first. God bless.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:18 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Lien:

    Karen, I have to disagree with this, even though I know you have the best intentions!
    "In my humble opinion, I believe that you need to get your dose down from the tramadol very slowly by taking less and less of the pills every 3-4 days or so. Just like the sub taper would suggest. Then when you get to where you are completely off the tramadol, you could be inducted with the subs."

    Karen is a great example of what a positive attitude and subs can do for addiction! She is also a great motivator, Always seems to have a smile, however: Although tramadol may act like an opiate in the body, it also acts like a benzo drug. Benzo drugs have different w/d symptoms than opiates. Your doctor was right: You could have seizures if you stop without tapering. There is no sense tapering your tramadol and then going on suboxone. No purpose to it whatsoever. You need to taper your tramadol slowly, jumping off completely, at least enough to score high enough on the COWS worksheet means you risk seizures.

    "I am just hoping suboxone can give me the edge to get over the "tapering' hump."

    You cannot use suboxone to get over the "taper" hump. You will be very sick if you do that.
    I know how hard it is to taper anything, believe me, but you need to taper the tramodol like you would taper any other benzo: xanax, valium, etc.

    Read through the tramadol forum. Post often! We'll be here to cheer you on!

    Peace,

    Iloerose


    Hi Iloerose,

    Thank you for saying it so politely that I was maybe wrong. But I did mention it 3 times in my post to LIEN that I was no expert.

    I also mentioned to LEIN that most here would probably suggest that if he/she tapered down to a very small dose that they should probably just "jump" from there and not use the subs!

    I also mentioned that I have read here on the forum that if a person stopped the Tramadol abruptly they run the risk of having seizures.

    So I guess Iloerose I was just trying to relay ALL of the information that I had read here about the Tramadol. I wasn't in ANY WAY trying to give advice to LEIN because that is the LAST thing I should be doing here!

    I was only trying to help this person as you said and I appreciate that! But in the future I will refrain from giving any kind of response at all. I don't want ANYONE upset with me for giving bogus advice or suggestions.

    It just appears to me Iloerose that maybe you didn't read my ENTIRE response??? But like I said, I was only trying to help! No harm, no foul on my end at all. I just hope you see as you said that my intentions were only the very best!

    Thank you for understanding!

    Hugs,
    Karen

  8. #8
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Karen,

    I thought I already apologized to you on this thread. Apparently I did not read your entire post and am wrong in my assessment of Tramadol. I'm going to repost a post that Robert made on another thread. I apologize whole heartedly to you, Karen: Please do not stop posting and your advice/experience is invaluable here!

    Maisie, who has worked with people using trams for years sent this to me. I am posting her information for her. She knows trams as well as anyone I know. God bless.





    Robert,

    I have never, ever heard that tramadol was anything like a benzo. Rose, where did you get that information? I think that is incorrect. I Googled it and didn't find anything.

    lienronnoco, I used suboxone to get off tramadol. You use it just as you would for any other opiate, EXCEPT, as you know, your dose is extremely high and puts you at risk for seizure. You have to be in withdrawal in order to start on the subs, and if you go into withdrawal from that dosage of trams you are likely to have a seizure...whether or not you've had one before.

    You know you're at an extremely high dose. Whatever else you do, please start tapering now. Your dose is alarming. Start tapering now, even before you decide the course you're going to follow. Even getting down still puts you significantly above the maximum recommended dosage.



    You can't do the suboxone concurrently with the trams and ease off. You're far better off switching to a "real" opiate like vicodin if you want to do that. Vicodin is way easier to get off than tramadol. But you still shouldn't do that without a taper. You're correct that tramadol works as an SSRI, and you can't yank yourself off that suddenly.

    Robert can help you if you decide to use subs, but you've got to taper down before you do anything else. The doctor you consulted was correct that he couldn't start treating you with subs at your current dose. Getting to a lower dose of trams is your first job.

    As I see it, you have two choices. 1) Taper way down on the trams and switch to a less-complex opiate, and then taper off that. 2) Taper way down on the trams, quit, get into withdrawal, and start the subs. (Your third option, of course, is to taper all the way off the trams, but you said you didn't think that would work. In my experience, getting to a lower dose on trams and "jumping off" is an extremely bad idea. You'll be in very bad withdrawals and extremely depressed, and it will go on for a long time. If you want to taper all the way down, the last phase of the taper should be long and slow.)

    Good luck!
    Maisie
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:22 PM.

  9. #9
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    Karen,

    I thought I already apologized to you on this thread. Apparently I did not read your entire post and am wrong in my assessment of Tramadol. I'm going to repost a post that Robert made on another thread. I apologize whole heartedly to you, Karen: Please do not stop posting and your advice/experience is invaluable here!


    Iloerose,

    I replied to you on my thread earlier. No problem at all as far as I'm concerned! There is no need to apologize for anything. I can see how things might be taken the wrong way at times and I have certainly done that too. So lets just continue forward and we are real good right now.

    Thank you so much Iloerose.
    Hugs,
    Karen

  10. #10
    Sunny mom is offline Member
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    If lien is out there, I hope he read all the information given. I was not comfrotable giving any advice even though Trams were my DOC, just because of the high dosage he is on...I did start to write several responses here but refrained, I am so glad those more knowledgeable than I have chimed in. Lien, I do agree that Trams are extremely hard to get off of. Maise's point that Vicodin is easier to get off of than Trams rang true with me. Through the years, I had been prescribed Vicodin for various things, and I never had any issue with them, I usually never even finished a bottle of Vicodin...Tramadol was another story, though. Please taper slowly as best you can with the Tramadol. Can you talk to a doctor about some anti-seizure meds? .I was at 3-4 a day, but I had been taking them fairly consistently for 11 years (stopped for a few months about 5 years ago)...my last Tramadol was April 30, and i can't tell you HOW happy I am to be off them...you are making the right decision to get of them. Please take care and post an update when you can.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  11. #11
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert - thanks for replying.
    I am currently taking tramadol and have been dependent for about 3 yrs. I am not taking any suboxone and, so far, have not been successful finding a doctor who will prescribe it to me.

    Nonetheless, I am committed to continue trying to taper, I just think suboxone will increase my chances of success. I've failed many times trying to taper, but this time is a bit different; there is no going back. I'm committed to getting of this stuff, it has in short ruined my.
    Thanks for your time Robert . . . and everyone else for your responses

    - Lien
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  12. #12
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Apparently it has also ruined my ability to type

    (but not my sense of humor)

  13. #13
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    "As I see it, you have two choices. 1) Taper way down on the trams and switch to a less-complex opiate, and then taper off that. 2) Taper way down on the trams, quit, get into withdrawal, and start the subs. (Your third option, of course, is to taper all the way off the trams, but you said you didn't think that would work. In my experience, getting to a lower dose on trams and "jumping off" is an extremely bad idea. You'll be in very bad withdrawals and extremely depressed, and it will go on for a long time. If you want to taper all the way down, the last phase of the taper should be long and slow.)"

    Thank you Maisie, I will follow your advice and continue to taper down to a normal dose. Then option 1 or 2, it doesn't matter to me which one its just a matter of convincing a doctor to write me the rx when the time comes. Option 3 is something I'm trying to avoid at all costs; I want to do this right and with the least undesirable effect. I have a career and it demands my undivided FOCUSED attention at all times.

    So, its taper time for me. I will post my progress periodically if that is okay. believe it or not, nobody else knows about my dilemma accept those reading this thread and I am somebody who needs to be held accountable. So posting will be part of my tapering process.

    Thanks again everyone . . . its amazing how much even virtual support can do

    - Lien
    Last edited by ddcmod; 07-07-2012 at 06:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi Lien,

    I hope you're having a real nice weekend. Maisie gave you some excellent advice and suggestions. Seems she really knows about those Trams! Robert recommended her, so I'm sure she does!

    Glad to hear that you are going to taper the dose down. I have just read here on the forum many times that a slow taper from them is the way to go. I was just giving you several options in my reply to you earlier. I have no experience with that medication, so my advice is about zero with that. LOL.

    Everyone here just cares so much about everyone else. That is so awesome to me! I didn't really have anyone to speak to about my little problem either, so coming here to let it go was a real Godsend!

    You are going to do great I can just tell. Your attitude is great and you are fully committed to doing the right thing. That's what it takes to succeed. You take care and really enjoy your weekend. Please keep posting those updates like you said. I'll be supporting you all the way!

    Big Hugs,
    Karen

  15. #15
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Lien,

    Glad you came back and read Maisie's advice! She's having a difficult time with her computer, so Robert posted for her, thank God! She's been through the ropes with the trams. I sure learned from that exchange! Karen is awesome! Like she said, attitude is everything! And you seem ready to go! The subs do add a bonus in that they give you time to adjust your habits without being sick for a long period of time, I'll be here to support you!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  16. #16
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Hi all,

    I am not having trouble with my computer but rather with this site, which logs me off every time I try to post. I hope it will work this time.

    Lien, I'm glad you're starting your taper. It is important for you to get your dose down as quickly as possible. Don't do anything nuts, but you can taper fairly aggressively in the early going. There is a taper schedule on some of these tram threads that I've posted a few times. You'll have to look a couple of years back to find it. I don't have time to search for it. But you'll see that the taper goes faster in the beginning and slower towards the end.

    I mention this because you are putting your health at risk by being at such a high dose. Just because you're not having seizures doesn't mean you're in the clear. When I was using trams regularly, most of my body hair fell out and my menstrual periods stopped (and I was at a MUCH lower dose than you). The hair and the periods came back after I got clean. This is a nasty drug, and the manufacturers have obviously been dishonest about it. It can mess you up, so please try to taper resolutely.

    Good luck!
    Maisie

  17. #17
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaisieC View Post
    Hi all,

    I am not having trouble with my computer but rather with this site, which logs me off every time I try to post. I hope it will work this time.
    Maisie
    Hi Maisie,

    I am having the same problems as you have mentioned when I try to post my replies. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me quite often.

    So what I have been doing is when I make my post I go ahead and "copy" it to save just in case I get booted off the site, or my post doesn't go through.

    Then if and when it happens I just paste the post I saved or copied and it usually works fine and goes through then! Just thought I would offer you some help with it. Hope that helps and I wish you the best!

    By the way.....you have great knowledge with the Tramadol. Nice to read your posts about it as I continue to learn.

    Big Hugs,
    Karen
    iloerose likes this.

  18. #18
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Desire View Post
    Hi Maisie,

    I am having the same problems as you have mentioned when I try to post my replies. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me quite often.

    So what I have been doing is when I make my post I go ahead and "copy" it to save just in case I get booted off the site, or my post doesn't go through.

    Then if and when it happens I just paste the post I saved or copied and it usually works fine and goes through then! Just thought I would offer you some help with it. Hope that helps and I wish you the best!

    By the way.....you have great knowledge with the Tramadol. Nice to read your posts about it as I continue to learn.

    Big Hugs,
    Karen
    Hi Karen,

    Yes, of course I have been doing that. But it keeps logging me off repeatedly, and there's no point when that happens. For two weeks all I saw was a darkened window with no possibility of entering text at all. I don't know what's going on, but I'm fed up. If I'm not back on this site, that's why.

    Rose, I'm still interested to learn where you heard that information about tramadol behaving like a benzo. I'd like to learn more about that.

    Fingers crossed this post actually gets posted....

    Take care,
    Maisie

  19. #19
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    That was my fault Maise, I believe I read something on another forum and failed to back it up with research, Benzo/ Tramadol. Had to do with stopping abruptly from a high dose and seizure risk. I'm sorry if I was off base with this. Have read some of your old thread. And the one that Robert posted def. gave me some great info. My dad's doctor who also has a DO and PHD says tramadol is not addictive. Too many doctors believe that, a doctor I had also told me xanax wasn't addictive. Crazy, Huh?

    I too am having problems posting, and like Karen, do the cut and paste when I think I am going to get booted. I have also had the grey screen when I go to post. I just click out of the site and then come back and log back in. It's a real pain.

    I hope you don't stop posting!

    Iloerose
    Last edited by iloerose; 07-08-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  20. #20
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaisieC View Post
    Hi Karen,

    Yes, of course I have been doing that. But it keeps logging me off repeatedly, and there's no point when that happens. For two weeks all I saw was a darkened window with no possibility of entering text at all. I don't know what's going on, but I'm fed up. If I'm not back on this site, that's why.
    Fingers crossed this post actually gets posted....

    Take care,
    Maisie
    I know it's frustrating, but we NEED you here Maisie! Hopefully the Moderators will see our post and maybe do something about it. Hang in there with me as I get frustrated also, but I need to be here and hope you feel that way also!

    Hugs,
    Karen

  21. #21
    ddcmod is offline Administrator
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    We can not replicate this problem. Is anyone else logged off every time they try to post?

    Drugs.com Admin

  22. #22
    Anonymous Guest

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    i have had the ''internet explorer cant display the page you wanted'''' but i push the back button and seem to get back again. so i try again. yeh for a little while, i was being logged off each time i quit the site... normally i just stay logged in on my laptop.

  23. #23
    lienronnoco is offline New Member
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    Wow, this is hard. I'm just barely hanging on at 16 . . . I've really dug myself a nice big hole. Well, enough of my whining . . . you make your bed, you sleep in it.

    I'm at 16, which is better than 17.

  24. #24
    cowboyup71 is offline New Member
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    Default Has anyone tied puridone

    [I have been trying to quit tramadol. I was taking up to 24 a day if not more. I slowed down to about 11 a day and with some family issues especially no support I started back up. I noticed that there is a new item out there called Pueridone to help with the withdrawel symptoms. Has anyone tried this? Those of you that are quiting not to scare you but there is a long road ahead. If you can get family help and take a month off from work do it. I have an extremely stressful job and can work 24 hours with no sleeo so I need something to help so though about trying this.

  25. #25
    cowboyup71 is offline New Member
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    Wow I need to learn how to spell

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