Can anyone help with questions about suboxone

[came2b]

I am new to this forum and could use some help from others that have experience with suboxone. Here is a quick run down on my history. I was in a motorcycle accident 15 months ago ( was told I am lucky to not be brain dead from helmet shattering into my head above my eye) had my face and leg worked on no big deal it was both of my hands that were severly injured. I shatter the bones in my left hand tore tendons, & nerve damage and right hand tore TFCC as well as nerve damage. The problem was it took me 6 months to find a hand surgeon that would work on my hands and the damage had been grossly undertreated at the time of my accident. Once my hand surgeon started working on my hands I had a total of 10 surgeries end result joint replacement. I have had to take narcotics through all of this which I developed some allergies to meds and had a few full blown anaphylactic shock episodes on a few meds, but have never abused the medication. Since my last joint replacement surgery 3 months ago, I requested to be taken of the pain medication, my pain management doctor gave me 3 options 1. to increase the norco to 100mg a day, 2. take 90mg oxycontin & use norco for break thru pain 3. be medically detoxed in the hospital (BECAUSE I WAS HAVING ALLERGIC REACTION TO FENTANYL 50MCG PATCH & WAS ALREADY IN THE HOSPITAL). I was already in the hospital so I chose that route, I just didn't know I was going to be placed on suboxone for pain management and w/d. I have been on suboxone 10 days, was started out on 4mg 4x daily total (16mg) at the hospital I told the doctor it was to much and was told it would level out. Since I have been home I have reduced down to a total of (10mg) a day 4mg am 2mg @ 1pm and 4mg at 7pm, I would like to be off this medication completely. It makes me feel weird (like an hour after taking it i feel like a drank to much coffee then a few hours I am a little tired the head aches a brutal). I have read Roberts taper plan and would like to know when and how is the best way to taper since his plan uses 2x daily doses and I am taking 3x daily. I do see my pain management doctor wednesday and have a plan to deal with the pain without using narcotics (acupuncture, aqua therapy, tens unit, and have a topical compounding cream being made for my hands). My doctor knows and agrees that I should try to deal with the pain without narcotics. I am just wanting to be well informed about suboxone and a good taper plan outside of just having a doctors advice. I have a wonderful spouse who has been very supportive with all of my surgeries and PT. I would appreciate anyone with experience on suboxone to please give me some input. Thank you

[iloerose]

How long have you been on the 10mg.? It may be possible to eliminate that middle dose, if you have been on it a few days. Then you will be at 4mg morning and evening. Some of the side effects you are suffering sound like maybe you are taking too much? At 10mg. are you still having the caffeine rush and then headache? Want to be sure that these symptoms are being caused by too much suboxone. You can be sure, though that his plan for getting off of these is pretty painless. So what we need to know is:
How long at 10mg?
Are you still having side effects?
So glad you have a supportive spouse, things can't have been easy for you. We're here to support and help you too!

Peace,

Iloerose

[Kikker]

hello came2b and welcome to the forum.
u've come to the right place for some answers.
lots of experienced members here.

robert325's sub therapy plan is the best there is in my opinion.
it's been used by lots and lots of members here including myself.
it offers u a realistic chance to get on and off the sub in relative ease.

sub is an excellent TOOL if used correctly.
but most doctors want their patients on entirely too much of it...
and that can lead to sub addiction quickly.

u should be on the lowest effective dose of subs...
and 16 mgs is entirely too much.
even the 10 mg is very high.
that's most likely why u feel 'wired'.
or like u drank too much coffee.

reducing the dose right away should make u feel lots better.
sub is a very strong medication.

like the plan reads take ur sub in no more than two doses daily.

iloerose is a very wise member here...
she is extremely knowledgeable.
i would suggest u take her suggestion...
i back her 100% what she said to u.

split ur 10 mg into 2 separate doses.
and take away the 2 mg of sub to lower ur dose amount.
take 4 mg am (8-10 am) and another 4 mg pm (4-6 pm).
try this for 4-7 days and see if u level out or get stable.
then when stable begin to reduce ur dose by 25% like the plan says.
and ur on ur way to being clean!

in my own opinion because ur at an extremely high dose i would myself
immediately reduce the dose to 8 mg.

iloerose is spot on about that.
i bet u wouldn't even notice the difference.

give this some thought and get back with us.
we're here to help u in any way we can.

again i'm glad u posted ur story.
looking forward to hearing from u again soon.

[iloerose]

Spot on kikker and thanks for the kind words. Been reading posts and you sure have helped a bunch of people. Sounds like your taper is going well! Best of luck

Peace,

Iloerose

[came2b]

Hi Iloerose
Thank you for your response today is my 2nd day at 10mg dose. I still have the jitters, then the head ache and then the tire feeling. I have been thinking it is the medication but wasn't sure because I am so extremely sensitive to medication. So I am going to take the the suggestion of taking the middle dose out tomorrow and see if that helps. I do have a question thought if I were to take only 2mg at my evening dose tonight would that be helpful which would then bring me to 8mg total for the day or should I just take the 4mg this evening?
Again thank you for your response.

[came2b]

Hi Kikker
Thank you as well for your response I am grateful to have found this site it was a god send to found it. Thank you for your vote in Iloerose too made me feel more comfortable.

[Kikker]

Hi Iloerose
Thank you for your response today is my 2nd day at 10mg dose. I still have the jitters, then the head ache and then the tire feeling. I have been thinking it is the medication but wasn't sure because I am so extremely sensitive to medication. So I am going to take the the suggestion of taking the middle dose out tomorrow and see if that helps. I do have a question thought if I were to take only 2mg at my evening dose tonight would that be helpful which would then bring me to 8mg total for the day or should I just take the 4mg this evening?
Again thank you for your response.

thanks for the kind words.

i realize u asked iloerose this but i feel it's an excellent idea to take the 2 mg tonight.
that alone may improve ur symptoms.

i'm sure iloerose will agree with u about it.
then begin ur 8 mg tomorrow.

nice job!

[iloerose]

You can try to do it that way. Then cut your noon dose. Subs have a loooooong half life, so you may not even feel the difference between the 2mg. and 4mg. at night, if you follow kikkers advice it may work out fine. You may be able to get away with cutting your night dose to 2mg., but you want to be at an even 4mg. am and 4mg. pm tomorrow. You want to keep your doses even. It's really hard to figure when the docs do inductions the way that they do. Hang in there. We'll get you stable.

Peace,

Iloerose

[came2b]

Thank you Kikker and Iloerose for your time to read and give your advice to me. This has been a very overwhelming experience and quite trying this past 10 days but with the support and knowledge posted here I believe I will get through this. I will keep checking and posting on how this is going as well as questions as they come up. May both of you have a peaceful evening.

Thank you both
came2b

[iloerose]

Wow thank you for the kind words. We do try our best to help and you have been through heck and back this week. You will get through this and we'll be here to help you try to make this as comfortable as we possibly can. You couldn't have better partner through this than kikker, as I've said before. So, question away, post how you feel. In your posts I can sense that you're getting better dealing with the subs. I hope you have a peaceful night as well.

Peace,

Iloerose

[came2b]

Hi Iloerose & Kikker, I took the 2mg for my evening dose and the only real symptoms I noticed this morning was my nose was running like a faucet, some tummy issues, and woke up sweaty, but the latter of the 2 I have had those going off and on for the past few weeks so I don't think it really has much to do with the 2mg dose change. I do have a question I have read in many post that when taperring if I don't feel so great today should I cut a sliver of the sub and use it or just ride it out, the reason I ask is the afternoon dose was initially put in this plan to manage the pain in my hands. I do have better day then others on my hands it really depends on how much I have used them the day before. My hands woke me up last night 4 times and I was very busy yesterday preparing for my duaghters birthday.

[Kikker]

good morning came2b.
glad ur not feeling too bad today.

about the idea of taking a small sliver....
it is intended for those on very small doses of sub.
like under 1 mg doses total.
not for where u are at with the 8 mg total daily dose now.

that's because the half life of sub is so long...
and will carry u through at the higher doses.
so taking the sliver probably won't have any effect for u now.

i guarantee that if 8 mg doesn't manage ur pain the 'sliver' won't either.
so forget about that part right now.
concentrate on taking the 4 mg am and 4 mg pm today.

as ur dose begins to get lower u will feel better and better.
ur still on a very high dose so that's why the symptoms right now.

stick with the plan and it WILL work for u i promise.

have a great day!

[came2b]

Thank you Kikker will only take the 4mg in am & pm. Never did quite understand the afternoon dose the doctor has had me on but I believe I can and will taper of the suboxone. Hope you have a great day as well hope everyone has a great day.

[Kikker]

that's great...glad u agree.
yeah, too much sub can cause all kinds of issues.
kinda like drinking too much coffee...
or too much of any other med.
u can get jittery, or shakes and headaches...
and lots of other symptoms.

by lowering ur sub amount those problems will lessen.
and when u get to a fairly low dose u will begin to feel better.

stay on 4 mg am and 4 mg pm for 4-7 days or so.
when u get around 3-4 days of feeling good or stable then reduce.
and keep repeating the procedure.
reducing the dose by 25% each time.

and please don't be in a hurry....
this is no race.
u only need to finish.
do it right and do it ONE time.

i will be happy to help u with the dose amounts if u need it.
i've been on sub a few times myself.
and on it now.
i'm gonna reduce today to .375 mg.
i'm feeling great on it and u will too.

just try and relax.
iloerose, myself or another member will be glad to help u.

sorry about the hand problems.
wish i could be more help with that part.

i'm very proud of u came2b.
u have the right attitude for this and that's what it takes.

U CAN DO THIS!

[iloerose]

I agree totally, kikker. A sliver won't help much. Once you get stable, came2B, at the 4mgX4mg, you should be fine.And the do it right and you only have to do it once is absolutely true.

Kikker: How are you going with your drops? You sound good. You are really really getting there! I'm proud of you!

Peace,

Iloerose

[Kikker]

gosh iloerose, u really make me smile!
thank u so much for asking about me.

i'm doing just great.
reduced today to .375 mg of sub.
i take it at noon.
will remain there for 3-5 days and drop again if no problems.
so far it's been painless.
no issues to worry about.
last time for me.

i want it as bad as everyone else here.
helping them is helping me!
i'll be clean soon and have a new life.

thanks again iloerose.
ur the best!

[Kikker]

good morning came2b.
how are u doing today?
did u sleep well?

i just wanted to check on u.
post and let us know how ur doing please.

get some days on the 4 mg x 2 and u'll begin to feel better.
then we'll drop ur dose amount.
and u'll feel even better i bet.

soon as we get the dose under 4-6 mg total it's much better.

ur doing awesome!
looking forward to hearing from u today.

[Mirabellesmom]

gosh iloerose, u really make me smile!
thank u so much for asking about me.

i'm doing just great.
reduced today to .375 mg of sub.
i take it at noon.
will remain there for 3-5 days and drop again if no problems.
so far it's been painless.
no issues to worry about.
last time for me.

i want it as bad as everyone else here.
helping them is helping me!
i'll be clean soon and have a new life.

thanks again iloerose.
ur the best!

was poking around and got caught up in this story! Kikker, and Iloerose have been a huge support for me with my battle to taper off of oxy... i'm taking it slow, 20mg drops every 7 days, but i'm getting thru it and will be done with them soon! the most important part for me was making my plan and sticking to it! and everyone here has been great help with advice and support to help me make it every day... lotsa love out to you all!

[iloerose]

Hey, Came2B, where are you? and how are you?

Peace,

Iloeroe

[came2b]

Hi Kikker and Iloerose
first and foremost thank you both for concerns and info. I didn't sleep so hot last night when I woke this morning I was drenched in sweat like my hair was wet as if I had just showered and running nose. The head ache isn't as bad but it still is hanging onto me. I feel ok not to bad just a little off. I did have to make a slight change in the time I am taking the Suboxone started at 6:30 am and going to take it again after this post. I was out doing errands today and recieved a job offer which suprised me. It was a good suprise but scared because I just don't know if I will be able to perform, but the company knows about my hands and is willing to work with me, thank god.

I do want to ask is it normal for me to feel kind of angry/aggressive? I am normally a very happy go lucky person that doesn't get mad or pissy, but I have been feeling very short fused since being on Suboxone.

Thank you all the memebers that have taken time, care and concern to coach me through this. I really only want to do this one time

[Kikker]

i think it's entirely possible about the angry/agressive feelings.
ur on a very high dose of sub so it may be affecting u that way.
i think it's very possible in fact.
see if it changes as ur dose gets lower.
then we'll know for certain.

sorry about the sleep problems.
it'a a very common issue for almost everyone.
sub really disrupts ur sleep patterns.

stay as busy as possible during the day.
some exercise if u can...
short walks maybe..
anything to tire u out so u can get a little sleep.

just know it's a very commom issue.

take ur sub doses about 8 hrs apart if possible.

just know this does get better...
as ur dose gets lower.

try the same dose for another day or 2.
if ur no better maybe we can lower ur dose a bit...
see if that doesn't help.

lets see what iloerose thinks about that.

u hang in there...
ur doing just fine.
have faith in urself...

cause we all do!

[iloerose]

Yup, keep your doses about 8 hours apart. The most important part is to get you stabilized at a dose you can tolerate. Kikker, let's see if we can't get him stabilized at the 4X4 before we drop. He just dropped by 2mg., so a day or two is good. Hate to talk about you in the third person Came2be. It takes time to get someone stabilized when the original induction isn't done right, but you can do it. The sleep will come. Like Kikker said try to get some exercise in and a hot bath before bed. Stay hydrated: water, juices, gatorade. The short fuse could be from the high dose of sub plus the bad induction. So, you know, before you blow, count to ten if you can. I'll bet you're stable on the 8 in a few days and we can drop you to six. Hang in there. You are doing fine.

Peace,

Iloerose

[Kikker]

thank u iloerose...
and u came2b for allowing us to speak on ur behalf.
we're both trying to figure out what's best for u.
i'm sure u understand.

hey iloerose...
i even thought about a reinduction.
but it may be very difficult to hit that 26 score on the cows.
came2b has lots of sub in his system that may hamper it.
and it could take days of wd's.

came2b...this should be ur 3rd day at 8 mg.
u should be feeling slightly better.
but ur still at a very high amount of sub.
let's give it another day or 2 and then reduce by 25% to 6 mg.

and take 3 mg am and about 8 hrs later another 3 mg.
that should make a huge difference in how u feel.

keep us informed how ur doing.
hope ur hands are feeling better today.

have a great day!


good morning iloerose!

[came2b]

Good morning Kikker and Iloerose
I am so appreciative of both you advice. I slept a little better last night the sweats were almost gone. The headache still lingering but not as bad. The jittery feeling isn't what it was but I still get it about an hour the Suboxone then it passes still get that tired feeling but not like it has been. My husband said he notices my temperment but said he can't imagine what I am going through, and I don't last out it's just I feel inside aggressive and I check my self or just don't say anything because I am certain it's the Suboxone. I do walk 2-3 miles a day and had to increase my fluid intake because I was getting cramps in my calves. I overall feel better then a wweek ago, so I was planning on tomorrow reducing down to 6mg as I want the least amount of the Suboxone in me as possible.

I did find a good way of dividing the strips I fold them in half and get a good crease then I just tear them apart and they are equal no cutting invovled and the are even.

You guys are the best and way easier to ask questions to then my pain management doctor when I put a call in about the dosage lowering and how I was feeling I didn't get a response from the doctor, so thank you for answering my questions.

I hope you both have an amazing day

[came2b]

I forgot to ask why the importance of the 2 doses being 8 hours apart when there is approx 12-14 hours from the evening dose to the next morning dose? I don't quite understand that part, but I am trusting both of your advice because you have done this and I don't have the knowledge or experience. Just curious on the logic or science of this.

Thank you both so much

[Kikker]

woops...i thought u were male came2b.
so sorry for the mistake.
please forgive me.

yea, it's much easier to speak to us here.
the docs are so busy.
no way they can spend this much time with u.
i'm happy to do it...
i'll help any way i can.

that's great u want to reduce tomorrow.
u will feel even better than u do now.

because the half life of sub is so long....
it keeps building and bulding in ur system.
u have a huge amt in u right now.
so we have to get it lowered.
but do it the RIGHT way.

so 4-5 days or so on each dose...
and then reduce.

i'm very happy ur reducing tomorrow.
it will make a huge diff.

glad u found a way to tear the strips...
whatever it takes.

ur doing ALL the right things now.
i'm very proud of u so be proud of urself.
ur hubby should also be proud.
sounds like a great guy.
happy u have support from him.
makes a huge diff.

please keep posting updates.
talk to u later.

[came2b]

The hands are bothering me but that isn't new I sleep with my braces and they still keep me up but the Suboxone actually seems to help with the pain better then any of the other pain meds I have been on so that is weird to me being that most of what I have read or seen most say it doesn't work on the pain and it actually has helped with my pain, or maybe I am getting used to the pain and the thought of living without pain medication.

Have a great day

[Kikker]

I forgot to ask why the importance of the 2 doses being 8 hours apart when there is approx 12-14 hours from the evening dose to the next morning dose? I don't quite understand that part, but I am trusting both of your advice because you have done this and I don't have the knowledge or experience. Just curious on the logic or science of this.

Thank you both so much

this is MY opinion about that part...
others may have diff ideas about it.

it's NOT set in stone the dose has to be 8 hrs apart.
it's just what most ppl do.

the half life of sub is UP TO 72 hrs.
half life means in a certain time HALF the dose dissapates and half remains.
which means it can remain in ur system for UP TO 3 days.
one dose lasts a long time...
and it keeps building in ur system.

so no need to take it say 3-4 hrs apart.

u need the sub while ur awake...
not so much while sleeping.
some ppl can't sleep if they take the dose too close to bedtime.
i can't for sure.
others it doesn't matter.

some people take only ONE dose of sub.
and that's perfectly ok to do.
my personal opinion to take large amts in 2 separate doses.

so the 8 hr time frame is just what seems to work best...
if a person takes 2 doses.
that's all.

because sub is so strong it lasts a long time in ur body.

hope this helps...
and it makes sense.

[came2b]

Thank you it does make sense because in the beginning it would knock me out then I started noticing if I took it a few hours before bedtime it kept me awake so I change the time between 4-6pm and seems like 5 is the best time for me so it doesn't affect my going to sleep so much. I wish they had of listened to me about the dose being to high because I feel like I should of been maybe at 2-mg max but I didn't know about this site then. Oh well I am on the right track and that is all that matters now and listening to my body and advice from all of you thanks a million. Gotta go to my new job for training will check in later have very busy day 3 hours of PT 6 hours of training and then home with my four legged children and hubby YAHOO. It's a great day.

Have a blessed day

[iloerose]

Came2b: Listen to Kikker. He's a great guide with the subs. Everything he has said so far is spot on! You sound like you are doing great. I'm proud of you, too! You'll get there. Doc's seem to favor the 16mg. for some reason. As far as the pain goes, some say that when you're on opiates the pain can actually increase because you're body is telling your brain: "help! I'm in Pain, take some more!" So you may actually be able to better assess your pain level in your hands and perhaps even cope with a non-narcotic in the long run. Kikker is absolutely right about the drops, you won't notice so much as the half-life of subs is long. I'm glad you're actually feeling better.
Oh for the cramping two things may help: gatorade (had a friend with Parkinson's and this was a staple at our house) and Hyland's makes an anti-cramping med. You can find Hyland's at walmart or a health/supplement store. As far as the aggressive mood, you have dropped a great deal of sub. You also were on such a high dose that I believe as you go your mood will even out. Sorry for thinking you were a guy as well. Such is the anonymity of a forum. It's great you have a spouse who is with you in this. One of the most important things in this is the support. You def. have it here! How many four legged children to do you have? I have one. Who is begging for bones and a walk. Hope you have a good, peaceful night with spouse and kids

Iloerose