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4 Days Off Sub - I think this is FINALLY it!
4 Days Off Sub - I think this is FINALLY it!
Hi all. I've been a long-time lurker probably almost a year now and I just want to say off the bat that I think you are all amazing people doing the Lord's work on here helping out fellow addicts. It's truly remarkable to see such a strong collective force helping people eradicate themselves of the demon that is opioid and now suboxone addiction.
My brief story, was taking painkillers mostly hydrocodone 10/325 for around 4.5 years, at the beginning as instructed like everyone else, by the end it was around 20 a day. Managed to quit for more than a week on three occasions, once during Lent about a year and a half in; second time on my honeymoon apparently laying in the sun at the beach getting drunk and swimming in a lagoon helps withdrawals (this was the easiest time); and finally when I moved overseas to where they didn't have the pills, quit for almost 2 months then realized they sold codeine OTC and got addicted worse than before. Since then moved back to the US, back on hydros until about 3 months ago when I finally gave up and went to my doctor regarding suboxone. Took suboxone 16mg/day (2 x 8mg) for a week at doctor's orders and by the grace of God found Robert's posts on this site after only a week in. Got scared of the suboxone and went back to hydrocodone thinking it would be easier to w/d from, since then have been alternating hydrocodone and suboxone taking hydro when I had it and sub when I didn't.
Finally, two weeks ago I learned my father (lifelong alcoholic) had made the decision to quit booze, and for some reason this has given me the inner strength to quit hydro + suboxone AND see it through this time. It's coming up on the end of my 4th day, have only been taking ibuprofen, clonidine, and trazodone for sleep. Have a boatload of clonazepam on the ready but haven't had to take any - as opposed to during hydro w/d was taking it every night. The withdrawal symptoms are much like I've come to expect from reading countless threads in this forum: lethargy, restless legs, anxiety and depression. Oh the anxiety and depression, it almost split up my wife and I this past weekend. Much more cognizant of that (as is my wife) now after things settled down. But honestly, it truly feels different this time, this is the first time I feel a strong sense of motivation to quit. As well I'm having no cravings.
I came here to post because I have seen you all help countless others, and I'm hoping you can help me too. Help me to stay the course, help me to be honest with myself, and help me to turn around my life and pull out of this downward spiral that has been slowly deteriorating my marriage.
Thank you all for taking the time to hear me out, and God Bless.
I'm on day 9 off subs. Congrats! You took the first step which is the hardest. You realized you wanted to do it. I'm proud of you and keep going. I feel much better now than I did a few days ago. I'm here if you need to talk. By the way, prayer works wonders! God will guide you through this.
Thank you for the kind response and support it is greatly appreciated. Day 9 that is wonderful congratulations and stay strong!! How are you feeling now? 60%, 75%, 90%? Which days were the worst for you? It certainly isn't as bad as hydro or percocet w/d, but I'm just worried that the "partially-to-moderately ????ty" feeling is going to perpetuate for weeks. Which days were the worst and what did you do to help get through them?
Originally Posted by Noregrets24
Congratulations on your 4 days Zabko. I went to a rehab(21 days) last year to get off subs. They took me from 12 mg's to nothing In 9 days. The first few days were not to bad but day 3 - 7 were not great. The lack of sleep and tense muscles were the worst of it. The depression wasn't near as bad as I thought It would have been. I left this detox In Florida with 12 days off of subs. I didnt feel great but I didnt feel that bad. A little lazy and those led legs. But overall I was doing pretty good. I feel with a proper tapper I would have done much better.
I went 28 days without any subs...I was feeling better everday....about 85-90 %. Not to shabby. But on day 29 I was feeling sorry for myself for whatever reason and I rememberd that I had around 20 8/2 mg subs left. I was told to throw them away...I should have listen. Long story short...I started taking the subs again but never went over 5mg. I've been following the tappering plan here and Im down to 1.75. I shoud make my drop to 1.5 In a few days. I have Clonidine..Neurontin and a Resteral... If and when I need it. I found these to be quite helpful while In rehab.
The best advice I can give you is don't give In to that little devel on your shoulder....kick him to the curb when he shows up. It does get better...I know this from my own personal experence. I also know that one moment of weakness can undo many weeks If not years of hard work. To be Involved In a 12 step program is a very good idea. I go to AA meetings.... thats been my drug of choice sence i was around 15 16 years old.
BTW.. the other thing that really helped me along was drinking a lot of water and Gater aid...but mostly water. My urine was this very dark yellow when I first entered that rehab. Within about a week it was almost the color of water. Very Important to flush those toxins out of are body. I also spent a lot of time outside soaking up some sun. Dont over do it and make sure to wear plenty of sun screen. Also the more you move the better you will feel. Laying around was the worse thing I could do. When I went outside and cut the grass or whatever.... I always felt better.
I wish you the very best Zabko....please keep us posted on your progress.:-)
Last edited by Mike_925; 07-30-2012 at 11:27 PM.
I am 11 days off subs! congrats. i am feeling 80% better and more each day. days 3-8 were the most challenging. keep your chin up and dont use, you will pull through.
COMPLETELY CLEAN (Sub FREE) as of 7/20/12
"I don't like the drugs, but the drugs LIKE ME" Marilyn Manson
Thank you Mike_925 for taking the time to respond and for shedding some insight on what I can expect over the next few weeks. I wish you all the best with your tapering plan it sounds like you've got a good handle on it keep up the great work! And I totally hear you regarding the little devil on your shoulder, that's one of the biggest reasons I finally posted here, is to have something to help keep me honest and not stray down the wrong path again. I have family support from the ones that know, but the ones that know don't want the ones that don't know to know (sorry if that was confusing). I'm hoping to pick up some gatorade today and drink even more water than I have been, I have that same dark colored urine that you mentioned when in detox. Will also try to catch some rays as you suggested and see how that works.
Originally Posted by Mike_925
Thanks again for your post it is truly appreciated, and stay strong with your suboxone taper plan. God Bless.
Thanks for the motivation rxqueen83, it's nice to see someone about a week ahead of me, gives hope that the end is nigh. As well congrats on making it 11 days that is a truly remarkable achievement. Keep it up! God Bless.
Originally Posted by rxqueen83
Quick update on me: woke up this morning around 6:30am after about 7 hours sleep thanks to the trazodone (though it is taking much longer to take affect and not impacting as strongly as before). The mornings are when I feel the best right when I wake up so this morning I decided to take advantage and went for a one-mile run. Planned on making a run/walk out of it but was able to make it the entire length suprisingly. About 1.5-2 hours later the w/d symptoms started to set in, the relentless lethargy is back, hot/cold sweats, and today a new symptom though not an unfamiliar one upset bowels to put it nicely. So far no restless legs or irritability which are definitely the worst of all symptoms and would be the first time since the day 1 that those weren't present. *fingers crossed*
Will check back in later thank you all so much for your kind words and support. God Bless.
Another update: today was definitely the best day save day 1. The symptoms I mentioned above all persisted pretty much throughout the day and the appetite was zero. Still no restless legs but the lethargy has been pretty bad all day long.
One new symptom (mental) is that I started thinking about pills more than normal today. Not necessarily a desire to take any, but I have relapsed far too many times to fall for this trick. Will need to keep an eye on this during the coming days and weeks (and for the rest of my life to be sure).
Hope you all are staying strong in your tapering plans or in your detox/sobriety if you've made the jump. Good luck and God Bless!
Sorry for the brevity am posting from my phone. Still holding strong but last night turned out to be the roughest yet, restless legs kicked in and it was not easy falling asleep. Woke up this morning but not feeling as tip top in the mornings as I usually do. Restless legs still present and no energy burst like yesterday morning. Also sore from running yesterday but I guess that's a good thing. Trying to get my brain to tell my body that restless legs are just soreness from the exercise. Finally, am pushing myself into the office today was gonna stay home but I'm hoping getting out and into the office will make things easier to cope.
Thanks all for your continued support God Bless.
Wow, today is by far the toughest day yet. Restless legs, hot/cold sweats, lethargy, upset bowels all back with a vengeance and need to work on top of it all. Holding out so far by the grace of God.
Stay strong and FIGHT all! God Bless.
Keep holding on there, zabco. How much sub were you taking? Subs have a longer half live than the hydrocodone. So keep on, maybe look up the Thomas Recipe, although it seems you have most of it already. You may want to try NA or another type of group to help you through this. Hang tough, if you really want this, you'll get through to the other side.
Thank you iloerose for your kind words and inspiration. Your message came at the PERFECT time when I needed a pick me up. What a rough day, definitely the hardest yet. All of those symptoms I mentioned earlier hung around all day long. And the restless legs only got worse as the day went on. Then, to top it off, I took the wrong bus home and ended up having to walk 2.25 miles home. It seemed like a blessing in disguise for the restless legs, but it was hard to finish the walk and I am completely drained.
I took some klonopin (2mg) a bit ago for the first time during these 6 days. Hoping for a good night's rest after a rough one last night. Also picked up some L-Tyrosine and B6 today so have most of the Thomas Recipe now as you alluded to iloerose. I also told a few family members today, they knew I was on suboxone, but now they know I am trying to stop everything once and for all.
To answer your question regarding the amount of suboxone, it ranged from anywhere to 4mg - 32mg per day. My prescribed dose was 16mg/day, but my doctor said it's ok to go up to 32mg/day. I don't know if he meant me specifically or just theoretically, but of course my addict self took it to heart and took 32mg/day for about a week during mid-July. After then it was usually 16mg/day, or hydrocodone when I had it. I didn't do a proper taper I just kinda microtapered and jumped. Last suboxone usage was 5 days long: 16, 16, 12, 8, 4.
I've thought about going to an NA meeting, but for some reason it scares me. I work for a company that offers a confidential helpline for mental issues including substance abuse, and I've pondered calling it, but I'm worried as to how confidential it really is.
I really appreciate all of your continued support, it means more than you know. God Bless.
I'll say a prayer for you tonight. There is light at the end of the tunnel. You've come so far...further than many people reading these posts. Keep it up!
Keep fighting the good fight zabko. I know the wd's can be a real pita. But It does get eaiser as the days go by. Another thing to remember is to keep things In perspective. I was told along time ago In AA that we are actually lucky. When I first heard that I wanted to puke. But It's true....there are many out there who have things so much worse. Incurable diseases, amputations, etc. No matter what many of these people do they will not get better.
I was reading about this 23 year old girl from Georgia who fell from a home made zip line. She opened up a gash on her right leg that requried 22 staples to close. Just google Aimee Copeland. This girl contacted a flesh eating bacteria that took her right leg left foot and both of her hands. This all happened In a period of a week or so. She's In rehab now and doing very well. I honestly cant Imagine being In this situation...or maybe Im to afraid to.
The reason I mention Aimee is because I have been following her story since almost day one. I think about what she has been through and I feel so grateful that I have what I have. No matter how hard she works no matter how much time go's by. Aimme will never grow back her limbs. She will never know life as she once knew it. But for people like us..we can know life as we once knew it....even a better life In many cases.
Im not trying to down play wd's...lets face it...they suck big time. But boy oh boy....things could sure be much much worse. Thats why I say "it's Important to keep things In there proper perspective".
Hang In there my friend....better days ahead...I promise. God speed
Last edited by Mike_925; 08-02-2012 at 01:12 AM.
Thanks both of you for the unwavering support. Last night wasn't too bad after my last post, the klonopin knocked me out in about 2 hours and I slept through the night. Feel good this morning much better than yesterday morning, but dragging a bit from the klonopin. Took a healthy dose of L-Tyrosine and Vitamin B6 hoping it will give me some energy to get through work today.
Mike you are 100% right about perspective, I heard about that story on the news it was tragic. And when I hear about little children
getting abused or abducted that kinda stuff torments you for life.
Perspective is actually a large reason why I finally got the cajones to suck it.up and go through hell one last time. I figured if my father can quit booze after over 30 years of beer all day, hard liquor all night, then surely I could get through the withdrawals of 5 years opiate use/abuse, regardless of how bad suboxone is.
After today I'll have one week under my belt, and being able to say that tomorrow is extremely uplifting and should give me the strength to fight whatever the demon throws at me today.
Good luck and God Bless all!
Last edited by ddcmod; 08-02-2012 at 04:43 PM.
Good luck on making it past the withdrawal. I felt pretty good around the 2 week mark and felt pretty much 100% at 3 weeks. But each day should get better and better for you. I stopped from .75 mg a day down from 12mg 6 months before that.
My experience has taught me that getting through the withdrawal and the fear of using after that, as horrible as that may be, are not sufficient to keep me clean. Getting the drugs out of my system is easier than keeping them out. I hope you have some support.
Well done my friend...well done Indeed. Stay the course and your life will be yours again. Your father is a excellent example btw.
Thank you Patrick and Mike for the kinds words of support and encouragement. Today was an ok day, much better than yesterday, the restless legs were present but light, lethargy, still have hot/cold sweats, and my nose ran all day. I took some L-Tyrosine and B6 a la the Thomas Recipe this morning but not certain if I did much, I was expecting a "surge" of energy and never noticed one. Though I did really crash early afternoon so maybe it actually did do something, who knows. One question I do have is the ratio of L-Tyrosine:B6? I can't seem to find that information anywhere. Does anyone know it?
It's approaching the end of the 7th day which means I've just about made it my first week without this garbage inside me. When I first posted on the 4th day that felt like an eternity away. Hopefully the second week gets better and goes by faster.
Thanks all for your continued love and support. God Bless you all!
Premature 1 week celebration. Wee hours of the morning now and have total insomnia (first time during this detox) due to restless legs and arm twitching. I took a 100mg trazodone and 3mg klonopin but it is laughing in my face. Just soaked in a hot bath to feel better but still no tiredness at all.
This thing is really gonna make me work for it, isn't it...
I hope you're all overcoming your struggles. God Bless.
Hang In there zabko. It was around day 7-8 when I actually started feeling somewhat "normal". It does take some time to get this stuff out of your system....as Im sure you're very well aware.
The good news is the worst is behind you...or It should be at least. Just do your best to stay active...take a walk...shoot some baskets...anything that moves your body. Also try to sweat....sweating is one of the best ways to get this stuff out of your body. Many Inpatient treatment centers now have saunas and steam rooms for this very reason. I just joined the local YMCA so as to have access to these things.
Take care my friend....talk soon.
Thanks Mike. Would KILL for a jacuzzi right now. Feeling pretty groggy and zombie-like this morning due to the trazodone + klonopin combination and only 4 hours sleep. Starting off my morning with some L-Tyrosine/B6 and Gatorade. Hoping today is gonna be a better today (and especially night - I loathe nighttime at the moment all I want to do is sleep through it but as we all know easier said than done). So far symptoms aren't too bad, the fatigue is the worst due, muscle aches aren't too bad so far, and no restless legs *crosses fingers*.
Going to see my doctor today, it was supposed to be my monthly suboxone refill but I gonna tell him I don't want a refill and what has been going on the past week. Was gonna cancel the appointment but I need some refills on clonidine and trazodone. Also wouldn't mind some xanax for the mild panic attacks I get sometimes due to the horrible anxiety.
Hoping the worst is behind and better days to come. Stay strong all, the mind is infinitely more powerful than the influences on it. God Bless!
By the way, ONE WEEK CLEAN! Silly maybe, but at least I can start counting days instead of hours now.
Not silly at all...congratulations. On to week two. Good luck at the Dr office.
Thanks Mike. The doctor's visit was....interesting? I sign in at the front desk and tell them I will not be refilling my suboxone and that I quit it one week ago and am just having a checkup. They were totally nonchalant about it of course as probably none of them have ever gone through w/d. However, a lady in the waiting area heard me say the word suboxone and immediately struck up a conversation about it. Long story short, she has lupus and fibromyalgia, was taking vicodin then graduated to oxy and was up to 200-250mg/day of oxy just "to feel normal" as she said and so many of us say. She's been on sub about 6 months and we talked about the dangers of it, it seemed like she had done her research about it, but she said she was too afraid to endure withdrawals to quit it. I told her the longer you take it the worse you will be, and that if you've gone through oxy w/d then sub w/d is a walk in the park (in terms of severity) she was going to talk to the dr about starting a taper, hopefully she did.
When I saw the doc he seemed happy for me but played constant devil's advocate whenever I tried to be optimistic. I think he's just jaded because I asked him how many of his patients who have stopped suboxone stay clean, high %, medium %, low%? He looked me dead in the eye and said low, less than 15%. I said well doc I am gonna boost that number for you. He suggested getting some counseling for substance abuse and I asked him about NA, he said he'd rather me see a private person one-on-one because some people (i.e. dealers) go to NA and prey on folks to sell them more drugs. Is this true?
Got refills on my trazodone for sleep, and clonidine for sweats and hot/cold flashes, also got a few low strength xanax for when I have mini-panic attacks, I don't generally like to take xanax especially during the day it just makes me sleepy usually, also got some adderall which I have never taken before. Of course heard about it in college but never took it before, he gave me a short term (2 weeks) supply to get through the physical withdraw malaise so I can have some energy to work and live my normal life. I realize that the xanax and adderall are both addictive substances in their own right, but I made sure he only gave me a few weeks supply max. He had wanted to put me on prozac but I told him doc my goal is to not have to take a pill everyday, so we went with the short-term solution. I go back for a checkup to see the dr in two weeks. I'm hoping to go back and say doc now I am 3 weeks clean! By the grace of God and with the support of you fine people I can do it!
Since returning home I've taken some adderall and I feel like it's definitely helping, I'm not bouncing off the walls or anything, but I am at least able to focus on my work and don't feel as sluggish as this morning.
How are you all doing? Some of you that were a few days ahead of me should be starting to feel much better now I hope? Good luck all and God Bless.
Having another rough night at it. And to make things worse, tonight I am all alone for the first time during this ordeal. Very strange again tonight, I feel fine, tired even, before going to bed but as soon as I lay down BOOM the restless legs and muscle spasms kick in. Feels like an oxy detox.
Just took a hot bath, but didn't stay in too long because I've taken some trazodone and now just some xanax as well after a mini-break down.
Motivation is not as strong as it was a few days ago, I'm starting to get the "when is this ever gonna end" feeling.
Who has got inspiration to share and restore optimistic zabko?
The long lasting effects of subs really sucks...but hang in there zabko...you're doing very well.. all things considered. The hot soaks really help me relax me at night. I also have a garden tub with a jacuzzi that really comes In handy. One of the main reasons I purchased this house.
Just remember that the more time that go's by the less of this sh*t will be In your system. The highs and lows are a real pita...but you will start having better days vs the bad days....promise. It sounds like you have a pretty good doc...as far as these type of Dr's go. Many of them don't promote people getting off of subs....not good for business. Let's face It...many of these docs make one hell of a living by scribbling on a script pad. Nice work if you can find it. They have very expensive homes and cars and hot wifes that wont pay for themselves. So when someone like yourself talks about getting off of subs...well thats just plain old crazy talk and taking away from that BMW payment or two week trip to Greece or the hot wifes boob job. But from what I see you have a decent doc who's actually trying to help you...good news Indeed.
The night time is always the worst for me....especially when you're alone...that really sucks. I've been doing a lot of reading....health books In general. I've noticed that the cleaner my diet the better I feel. I neglected my health for so long....poor diet and lack of excercise has taken it's toll to be sure. So for the last six weeks or so I have been very focused on my diet/body more than anything else. I resently added "Whey Protein" to my diet. I usually put some orange/pineapple juice and bannna strawberrys etc In a blender with the Whey. It does seem to help a bit with the lack of energy. Not as much as I would like of course...but it does seem to help...and It's quite tasty. I get mine at Walmart. It has 52mg of whey at almost half the price of the health food stores. The brand Is *Super Advanced*...the price Is usually around $15.00. The vanilla and chocolate are very good. I do hope some of this helps.
Try to stay positive and avoid those negative doom&gloom thoughts as best as you can zabko. I know how depressing this doo doo can be at times. Stay the course my friend...steady as she goes. Oh...btw...Im at 1.5 and will drop to 1.25 around Mon or Tue.
Last edited by Mike_925; 08-04-2012 at 01:30 AM.
Thanks for the support Mike, I would do anything to have access to a jacuzzi right now!!!! Today was not a great day. The restless legs and other syndromes which have plagued me all week weren't present (although they're coming back now in the late evening) but today was by far the most fatigued I have felt over the past 9 days. This despite taking two adderall this morning, which worked a miracle yesterday but did nothing today. Maybe the loss of appetite is making my energy levels worse, I've have only had one full meal the entire week, and there have been several days when I don't eat anything and just drink a few Ensures. The depression and anxiety is killer too, fighting with my spouse far too often and it just feels like this is never going to end.
About 2 hours ago was laying down thinking I would pass out and the w/d symptoms restless legs and muscle spasms kicked in again, so started reading some forum posts and the message I stumbled upon was that you're only as sick as you think you are. This inspired me and I went out for a run for the first time in a few days. It was much harder than last time (also hotter and more humid) but I managed to make it through. Felt alright for a while but now some w/d symptoms are coming back.
I hold on to hope, however, because a) today is the 9th day and when I first posted some people around 9-11 days were saying they felt better, and b) today when I took a walk I could feel some of my senses coming back, I could smell the grass, the leaves, and hear the wind rustling the trees in a way which I haven't felt in years.
Still hanging on but the "is this ever gonna end" feelings are growing by the day. Good luck with your taper to 1.25 Mike. God Bless you all!
ROUGHEST NIGHT YET! Horrible restless legs and muscle spasms, taken trazodone and xanax and nothing is helping. I feel like a zombie that can't fall asleep. Also taken two hot baths and as soon as I get out the w/d come back. On top of it all I think my wife is getting fed up with dealing with me going through withdrawals. I am an emotional wreck and slowly losing my grip on this thing.
Is this ever going to end? Not knowing where the end is, or at least the start to feel better is, just makes using again all the more enticing.