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4 Days Off Sub - I think this is FINALLY it!
  1. #31
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    Zabko my friend....please dont think about using again. You are at ten days now....dont throw it away...I know you wont. Just ask yourself...."do you want to go through this s#it again"? I was at 29 days without subs and doing well. I wasn't feeling 100% but I would say I felt around 85-90%. But on that 29th day I became a little frustrated for whatever reason. I dont even remember what was bothering me at the time. So Instead of going to a meeting.. calling someone....taking a walk...maybe a swim....or coming to this forum and sharing my feelings. Instead of doing any of those things I chose to give in and take a sliver...maybe .2-3 mg of sub. It was a choice that I have deeply regretted for over a year now.

    Now I have go through this doo doo again....and Im doing everything I can to prepare myself. If I just would not have given In to that one moment of weakness. So please hang In there. Maybe take your wife out to dinner....try to explain that you are doing your best with a difficult situation. I dont know....maybe some flowers or a box of candy might help.

    Is It posible for you join a YMCA or a heath club for a month or two? I know for me that sitting In those saunas.. steam rooms and jacuzzis were a god send. The more I sweated the better I felt. I could actually feel and smell that toxic stuff pouring out of my body. I would usually go around 5-6 pm.....after I had drank a lot of water durring the course of the day. I would feel so refreshed after a cool relaxing shower before I left. This also helped a great deal with my sleep. I also did quite a bit of swimming....swimming is a awesome way to move all of your muscles with very little strain or Impact.

    The colen cleanse that metioned In another thread is also a very effective means to rid the body of built up toxins. Just Google "Colon cleanse". There is alot of very good Information available when It comes to a proper cleanse. Also some good videos on youtube.

    Congratulations on day 10......almost two weeks.....yay.. Hang In there my friend...Im going to need you to help me soon.

    I'll try to post a video below....God Bless.

    Mike
    Last edited by paulyboy; 08-26-2012 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Corrupt video css

  2. #32
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Zabco Congratulations on what you have done ! You have the most important ingredient which is "want to" I would strongly suggest Na/AA meetings their support can be priceless especially coupled with counciling. There are good and bad meetings so try several different ones listen for quality it will show. You have no idea at the quality of life coming your way being clean. The wd wioll subside and sleep will come some of these things just take time.

    Remember you are dealing with a disease no a weakness of character didn't get sick overnight not going to to get well overnight. I would say stay away from the alcohol it is the same class of drugs as the opiates tolerance to one usually equals a tolerance to the other . You have the genetics so the only safe way for you is total abstinence from all drugs /alcohol that alter feelings and thinking.
    Hang tight man you are doing great Dog
    Last edited by paulyboy; 08-26-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #33
    Crystalclear651 is offline Senior Member
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    Hi there, been reading ur thread behind the scenes...youve received alot of good advice...but I just wanted to say hang in there! Each day u don't use is a day closer to u feeling GREAT! U can do this. Take as many baths as u can do if it makes ya feel better. Go for a car ride, walk, bike ride w/ ur favorite music blasting. Get to a mtg of ur choosing, Don't give up now...u will overcome this. Take care, big hugs,
    Crystal

  4. #34
    zabko is offline Member
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    Mike thank you for your continued support. You have been replying to me every single day and I cannot thank you enough for watching over me during this ordeal. Also thank you Dog, I am going to set up some regularly scheduled appointments with a substance abuse professional once I get through this physical w/d stage. I know from failing in the past that I need to be stronger mentally to stay clean. Thanks Crystal, I really appreciate the support. It is just so disheartening to be at 10 days and not knowing when the end is coming. I wish non-sub users knew how bad this stuff is before they started taking it!

    Last night was horrible, it ended up with me driving around at 2am on trazodone and xanax because being in the house was making me go crazy. And despite all those meds I was WIRED. I know that I am getting in double digits in days now, but I'm not feeling much better yet. Especially at night, the past three nights have been three of the hardest of my life, I've gotten barely any sleep any of those nights and during the day I am totally dragging. The adderall, L-Tyrosine + B6, coffee none of it does anything. I feel like I just need a good night's rest to help my body out a bit. I have also lost between 10-15 pounds during this time from barely eating. But I feel myself being de-hydrated and am now trying to force down even more liquids and some food. I think the lack of sleep and nutrition might be perpetuating the w/ds longer than they need to be.

    Today was a weird day, woke up tired as anything but forced my way to church. Felt nice to be there and say a few prayers for recovery. Afterwards I went and got my first tattoo! Long story, but for the several hours I was there I felt pretty good, I think the excitement/nerves/pain actually turned on the endorphin manufacturing capability in my brain. But after it was over I quickly faded into the lead suit again. Just eaten a bit of food and downed some milk and OJ, feeling ok for now, but the night time is coming and I am nervous dare I say a bit scared. The past three days I have felt like this and then as soon as I try to fall asleep the w/d demon wakes up with a vengeance.

    Here's to hoping for a better night that doesn't bring me to the brink of insanity. Thank you all and God Bless.

  5. #35
    zabko is offline Member
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    FINALLY got some SLEEP!!!! Got about 6 hours after taking 3mg klonopin, knocked me out after about 1.5-2 hours and slept through the night. Feeling a bit sluggish today due to the klonopin, but I will gladly trade that for getting some sleep rather than agonizing in w/d pain all night. Took my vitamins/amino acids about an hour ago, eating some breakfast (cereal) now. This is the first time I've eaten breakfast in 11 days, so that's a good sign. I'm still forcing it down somewhat, but at least it's going (and staying) down.

    I'm hoping that each day now will see a slow, gradual improvement. I can handle some residual w/d during the day, but the nighttime ones when I'm trying to fall asleep drive me insane. Will probably use the klonopin for a few days to help get some sleep then stop that, don't want to pick up a benzo addiction.

    Stay strong friends, we can do this! God Bless.

  6. #36
    Crystalclear651 is offline Senior Member
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    Glad u got some much needed sleep. Sounds like it definitely helped. Just try n keep the benzos to a minimum. Just don't want ya to get hooked on that. But it's great to hear ur spirit is more uplifted today.

    I know first hand about the weight loss n not hungry or thirsty...I've been dealing with that too. But try to keep forcing something in throughout the day n drink lotsa fluids...easier said than done but keeping ur body well nourished n hydrated will help u feel better from what Ive heard. Even if it's just a protein shake.

    Ur doing great bud, keep up the great work!!

    Crystal
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  7. #37
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    Hang In there Zabko....It looks like you finally over the hump. The days should get a little better from here on end. If you're having a difficult time eating then those Ensure or Boost drinks are a must. Lets face it....with out proper nourishment It's near Impossible to maintain any kind of decent energy level. I think one of the big things that helped me do as well as I did was the fact that my wd's had little effect on my appetite. What can i say....I love to eat.

    It was around the two week mark when I noticed that most of the wd systems were gone. I still had the led legs and that lack of energy at times....but I would also have days where my energy level was pretty good. In other words...I was starting to have more good days as opposed to bad days. If you know what I mean.

    Happy to hear you got some decent sleep....proud of you man....keep up the good work. Oh btw....try to watch a comedy by yourself or with your family. It's more enjoyable to watch with others Imho. I remember watching Dumb and Dumber one night....I had about 20 days at the time. I was feeling kind of depressed so I decided to watch a comedy. I have "Videos On Demand" so I watched D&D. That movie actually brought tears to my eyes....tears of joy. It felt so good to be laughing Instead of feeling sad and miserable. Laughter Is trully the best medicine....at least it Is for me.

    Talk soon my friend...God Bless

    Mike
    Last edited by paulyboy; 08-26-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  8. #38
    zabko is offline Member
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    Thank you Crystal! Definitely wary of the possibility for a benzo addiction so will not take them for more than a few days. Haven't taken any xanax in a few days so that's good. Last night was 3mg klonopin, tonight going for just 2mg, then tomorrow hopefully 1mg.

    Thanks as well Mike. I sure hope you're right about the hump. Today was actually one of the better of the 11 days so far. By late-morning/noonish I had overcome the lethargy with vitamins/aminos, adderall and LOTS of coffee. I was able to focus and work pretty much all day without having many w/d symptoms. The comedy idea is a good one, the past two nights I have been trying to bury my head in work like an ostrich to take my mind off everything. Last night worked well, tonight remains to be see. Hoping the klonopin kicks in and I pass out without contracting any restless legs or muscle spasms.

    My appetite is getting better slowly. Today was the first day I ate more than once. As I mentioned earlier I finally ate some breakfast, and tonight I had some chicken curry + rice with spinach. Tasted amazing and super nutritious. I even heard somewhere that curry can boost endorphins I guess because of the spiciness. Who knows maybe it's a load of bull.

    Btw that video on the colon you posted was eye opening (and disturbing ) I definitely want to do some level of a colon cleanse. I turn 30 in a few months and my goal months ago was to get clean and start getting my health back on track and a colon cleanse should definitely be a part of that. It's nasty that you can actually smell the drugs coming out of your bowels. What poison this stuff is no WAS!

    You guys are amazing! God Bless!

  9. #39
    zabko is offline Member
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    11 days completed. Wow. That seemed an eternity when I first posted just over a week ago. Thank you all for helping guide me to this point. I'm still having some minor residual w/d symptoms but I now believe the worst is behind me. Slept good again last night with the 2mg klonopin, woke up at 5:30am after about 6 hours sleep with lots of energy compared to past days. Was going to go for a run but I am worried about profuse sweating messing up my new tattoo. My brain is actually telling me to eat breakfast this morning, although my stomach isn't interested ha. I have a 2L bottle of 100% vegetable juice (which tastes like tomato soup) which I am endeavouring to finish today, come hell or high water.

    Mike, how did the drop to 1.25 go? I hope you're adjusting well to the new dose.

    God Bless all.

  10. #40
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Zaco welcome to the land of the living Dog
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  11. #41
    zabko is offline Member
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    Thanks Dog. Today was another alright day. I think the main things left are the fatigue although that is slowly getting better, and the mild legs cramps right around my knees. Other than those I think most of the w/d symptoms have subsided for the most part. Tonight I will try just 1mg klonopin and see if I can still get some decent sleep, then tomorrow maybe 0.5mg or none at all. Also the appetite is definitely coming back, ate more today than any of the last 12 days and when I hadn't eaten for a while my stomach as actually yearning for some food.

    All-in-all I think I'm headed down the mountain, though still cautious of any speed bumps along the way.

    Peace and love all. God Bless.

  12. #42
    zabko is offline Member
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    Another decent night after the 1mg klonopin. I am still waiting for the day when I don't feel any mild leg cramping, particularly in the early evening which is when it seems to always rear it's ugly head. Woke up again at 5:30am with decent energy. Actually drove to a nearby Starbucks to get some coffee. I've seen people all over this forum say how therapeutic music is when you're detoxing or have just gotten clean, and holy truth to that. Was blasting Deadmau5 in the car and it has never sounded so good. All of the hairs on my body were sticking up and I had goosebumps all over, but in a GOOD way. I kept getting chills and surges of emotion and could just feel my brain producing endorphins.

    12 days in my pocket, working on the 13th now and I'm probably around 75-80%. But I definitely notice some things returning like my senses. The music I already mentioned by sense of hearing, smell I mentioned a few days back over the weekend that I could smell the grass and trees in a whole new way, taste is slowly coming back as my appetite does, touch I noticed last night when holding my wife's hand it just felt different like I could actually feel her skin I wasn't just touching her if that makes sense. Also, my sense of humour is returning! I used to think that opiates made me more social and outgoing and maybe at first they did, but like others have said eventually they become your existence and your once lively spirit slowly erodes into a depressed, soul-sucking version of your formal self.

    TL;DR: Still managing light residual symptoms as they arise, but LIFE is slowly returning.

    God Bless all!

  13. #43
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    So Good to hear that you're feeling better zabko. Just Imagine how you will feel this time next week.

    Congratulations on two weeks...day 15 actually....right? Way to go bro. talk soon.

    BTW, dropped to 1.25 yesterday....feeling ok.

    Mike

  14. #44
    zabko is offline Member
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    Thanks Mike. Almost, day 14 today so two weeks almost up. Would still call it about 80% still getting leg cramping sometimes especially in the night and periodic sweating my body has felt warm during the entire 14 days. Definitely feel much better after last weekend, that was the peak of mountain for sure (days 8-10).

    Still taking it day-by-day though the days are starting to move a little faster now.

    Congrats on the taper to 1.25! Stay strong in spirit and your body will follow. Pop dumb and dumber in the dvd player if you need to.

    God Bless.

  15. #45
    zabko is offline Member
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    Day 16 now, still continuing to get a little better each day. Right now the hardest part is at night I am having pretty bad insomnia and still mild bouts of restless legs. I took some klonopin last night but hadn't for a few days beforehand. Physically I am probably 80-85%, but mentally much less. It's still hard to get up and at em everyday, despite my body's energy going crazy from not being loaded with CNS depressants. The lack of proper chemical balance in my brain continues to make me sluggish, but I can notice a slight improvement every few days or so.

    The war continues but I have won all of the battles thus far. Onward and upward. God Bless all!

  16. #46
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    Keep up the good work zabko...and congratulations on half way to a month. You're showing that It can be done. No It's not easy...but few things In life worth while are easy my friend. Not that I have to tell you that.

    Keep fighting the good fight...It only gets better from here on end.

    Mike

  17. #47
    newmama is offline New Member
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    It is day 9 off of subs for me. I feel a little better, but still pretty bad. Glad to have made it through the worst. Good luck to everyone else.

  18. #48
    newmama is offline New Member
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    I finally got enough energy to sit outside for a little bit and read more posts on this thread. I feel for everyone going through sub wds because I know exactly how it feels. After reading several posts, the nighttime rls and insomnia seems like the hardest of ongoing symptoms. Yesterday was day eight for me, and I felt extremely tired all day. In my mind, sleep was finally on the horizon. Well, 9 pm or so rolls around and suddenly my whole body is aching. I don't have the energy to stand or walk but any position laying down is uncomfortable. Finally I took a .5 mg xanax and got to sleep around 2 am. Slept until about 8, which is an improvement over previous nights. I am feeling closer to normal today than I have since quitting the subs. I don't want to fool myself though because I've had fleeting moments of relief only to continue losing sleep and feeling lethargic during the daytime again. I appreciate everyone who has shared on this db and I'll try to add updates of my own.

  19. #49
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    Good to hear that you're hanging In there newmama. It does get better as time go's by. Hope all is well with you zabko my friend.

    Mike

  20. #50
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Good to hear you are doing better, the worst should be close to over. Hang in there you have done the so well Dog

  21. #51
    zabko is offline Member
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    Day 18.....still fighting the good fight. Went on an all day trip yesterday which was exhausting but felt good to be out and about. Too much time in the car though. The insomnia and restless legs are the worst part now, both usually creep back up around 7-8pm like clockwork, which makes me think part of them is mental. But I have been taking meds to help me sleep most nights, either trazodone or klonopin. I ran out of adderall yesterday so this morning it was rough getting going. Still taking the L-Tyrosine and B6 but I think all that does it make me go to the bathroom ha. I feel alright most of the time, minus the gross lack of energy in the early mornings and the insomnia/restless legs at night.

    No desire to take any opiates at all which is good. Just frustrating not knowing when the 90-100% feeling is going to come back, but I suppose after 5 years of opiates the body needs a bit of time to readjust itself to "normal" functions.

    Mike how's it going with the taper did you move down another 25% again?

    Newmama congrats on making it this far and keep at it! Days 8-10 were definitely worst for me, physically AND mentally, after day 10 it felt like I crossed the peak of the mountain. You're heading for the homestretch now!

    Good luck and God Bless all.

  22. #52
    zabko is offline Member
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    Day 19 not much changed from yesterday though maybe slightly milder symptoms last night, could be due to the hot soak in the tub or (hopefully) an improvement in the nightly insomnia/restless legs.

    Mike/newmama how are you guys going?

    God bless all.
    "To measure up to all that is demanded of him, a man must overestimate his capacities."

  23. #53
    zabko is offline Member
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    MISERABLE night last night, insomnia and restless legs all.night.long. Got the least amount of sleep of any night thus far. Ended up taking xanax at 5am and got a few hours this morning. Am trying to avoid taking sleeping meds and restore my circadian rhythm but I can't take many more nights like last night.

    How long did the insomnia last for you good people? Usually I wouldn't mind insomnia, but when you couple it with restless legs and the "life is so boring" feel it really messes with your sanity after a while.

    Was thinking of trying melatonin. Anyone had any luck with that? I really don't wanna take benzos every night for sleep...

    God bless all.
    "To measure up to all that is demanded of him, a man must overestimate his capacities."

  24. #54
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    So good to hear that you're hanging In there zabko....trust me...you will be happy that you did. At a around two weeks my sleep was decent...at about three weeks my sleep was pretty good. I guess the worse part was the lack of energy...but that was getting better as time passed. Like you said zabko...we cant do opiates for years and expect to feel great In a few weeks. Not going to happen. But we do feel better as time go's on.

    Please keep fighting the good fight...you are doing great my friend. The reason Is? beacause you are actually doing It. Not just talking about It.

    Talk soon

    Mike

  25. #55
    zabko is offline Member
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    Thanks Mike. I took the easy way out last night and had a klonopin to help me sleep, couldn't deal with two completely sleepless nights in a row for my health or my sanity, so I fronted that with a benzo. Not happy about it because the last thing I want is to take benzos every night for sleep, but it was the lowest dosage yet that I've taken of klonopin (0.5mg) so that's encouraging. I go back to the DR tomorrow seems like forever since I've last seen him even though it will only be two weeks, but more importantly tomorrow will be THREE WEEKS clean. The main things I want to discuss with him are a) I'm still clean most importantly, b) the insomnia and restless legs are killing me every night. See what he has to say about that. He gave me trazodone but I don't want to take that for sleep every night I've also read some horror stories about coming off that. At the end of the day I don't want to have to take any pill every day, even something OTC like ibuprofen.

    Still winning the war.

    God Bless all.
    "To measure up to all that is demanded of him, a man must overestimate his capacities."

  26. #56
    pgcc is offline Member
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    Man your doing something I could never do, not now anyway. I have ct off benzos, opiates and adderall at the same time but I was 22. It took 3 weeks to feel semi-normal. Your coming off a high dose so I guess it may take a while to get the sleep back. I'm impressed anyway with what you have done.

  27. #57
    zabko is offline Member
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    Thanks pgcc, that is very motivating to hear you say that, much appreciated.

    Three full weeks clean today on day 22 now. I have only ever been able to say that one time over the last 4.5 years. Feels good but I know I'm not out of the woods yet. I didn't take any meds for sleeping last night and feel asleep around 2am, woke up at 7am, not as much sleep as when I take a trazodone or klonopin but I didn't feel as groggy in the morning either. I still had restless legs last night but they weren't as unbearable as they usually are. On a bright note, how do I put this, I finally "went to the restroom normally" for the first time in three weeks this morning. I haven't taken any Imodium during this w/d, not sure why really I have some at my flat for some reason I just felt like I wanted to get all this poison out of me as soon as possible, and I didn't want Imodium slowing that process at all - whether that would actually happen I have no idea maybe I was just being paranoid. But it has certainly been a rough 3 weeks for the bowels, and the L-Tyrosine didn't help matters.

    Back to the DR in a few hours, want to talk to him about the continued insomnia and restless legs and see what he has to say. Last time when I was complaining about having to work through the constant lethargy he wanted to put me on Wellbutrin, but I ended up getting a short-term supply (1-2 weeks) of adderall. I think the adderall was ehhh, the first time I took it was fantastic, otherwise I didn't see a marked improvement over caffeine and sugar for energy except for another time when I took one extra pill. My lethargy isn't as bad as two weeks ago though, which is promising.

    Will let you know how the DR goes. Thanks all. God Bless.
    "To measure up to all that is demanded of him, a man must overestimate his capacities."

  28. #58
    rxqueen83 is offline Member
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    Hey Zabko
    I am just a couple days ahead of you (32 days clean today) from Subs. I am still dealing with the insomnia my friend. That and sneezing. It's so annoying! LOL. But, it's a small price to pay to be clean if you ask me. Eventually it will normalize. I am also 9 months pregnant (ready to pop), so I assume your insomnia will get better before mine. A word of caution (take it as you will), don't trade a bunch of new addictions for another. Klonopin, Anti Depressants and Xanax are all addicting medications with serious W/D symptoms. If I were you I would consider letting your body heal normally. It will take a bit but the results will be worth it. All that stuff, depression, anxiety, it will iron itself out. I promise.

    Good Luck
    Nadia
    COMPLETELY CLEAN (Sub FREE) as of 7/20/12

    "I don't like the drugs, but the drugs LIKE ME" Marilyn Manson

  29. #59
    donesub is offline Member
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    Zabko,

    A good friend of mine on this site gave me some words of encouragement. You will soon see a great improvement. 3 months from now you will look back at this very slow moving and agony filled time and it will seem like a blip, or nanosecond. It gets so much better. I have hereditary depression issues and an antidepressant helped me a ton. Took a while to start working though. Anyway, just know beyond a shadow of a doubt you have the hard part done. I am at eight months and as bad as the withdrawals were....... I hardly remember them and no longer have to make Dr. Appts for pain meds or visits to the pharmacy to drop tons of money. Freedom is real and its yours now for the taking. Good job and keep it up. PS I know from experience the 15% success ratio you doctor told you is probably incorrect. I know many folks still clean and the clean ones become so busy and productive they often don't report back. Hang in there, your done with it already, your body just hasn't realized it yet
    Last edited by donesub; 08-21-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  30. #60
    Mike_925 is offline Junior Member
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    So nice to see you doing well zabko....and you are doing well. I agree that a few months down the road you will look back at this like a bad dream. A very real dream of course but one thats behind you. More good news is...you never have to go through this again. It wont be long before you have a month....wow.

    Im sorry I haven't checked In for several days. I had to go out of town for a few days and Internet was hit and miss. So happy to get back here and see you still doing the right thing. Good for you my friend. Godspeed.

    Im down to 1.00mg....felt quite lazy the first few days. I will probably stay at this dose a little longer than the other dosages.

    Talk soon zabko

    Mike

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