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4 days no subs...NEED ADVICE!!!
  1. #1
    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Default 4 days no subs...NEED ADVICE!!!

    So after reading so many stories....here's mine I've had a long history of prescription pill abuse. Without getting into too many details cuz it would be quite lengthy, I'll say this....I jumped off an 8 mg methadone dose once and barely noticed any withdrawals (I think mostly cuz I went on a huge f*ck the world drinking binge and was totally sh*faced at all times) and instead of thanking my lucky stars for that (I did realize how lucky I was later) I slipped up and started messing around with methadose (prescribed to a friend for pain) and I got crazy hooked on those and finally decided to kick them...which I did on my own cold turkey! HORRIBLE. Still don't know how I walked away BOTH times ...now about a year ago I started taking vics (I know I know...you'd think I would have learned!) ....got sick one time after running out of V's and by accident I found tramadol . These took away withdrawals! Thought I found a miracle....WRONG. I didn't know they were addictive....dumb....with all >> been through I should have known better. Before I knew it I was taking 30-40 a day! I got desperate and started taking my husband's subs thinking >> detox myself! I didn't know everything I've learned about subs from this site! I thought I could just ween off easily!!! WRONG AGAIN.. I only started taking one here and there when I had no tramadol. Then I stopped tramadol altogether (about 3-4 months ago) Now I've been taking 1 8mg sub daily (dumb I know) for about 2-3 months now. Well 4 days ago I decided to jump (again I hadn't seen this site or read anything about sub withdrawal and now see this is asking for death) so I now know what's coming in the next couple days. I didn't jump because I ran out....I just am sick of the "game" and want to be free. My question after this long a** post is...at this point what should I do? Go back to the subs and taper down? Or given my track record of "walking away" and the fact that I have 4 days behind me, stick it out and see if I can make it? BTW, I'm feeling NO withdrawals YET. YET. YET. After reading so many stories I'm 100% willing to bet its coming for me. WHAT THE H*LL should I do next?

  2. #2
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    welcome to the forum. if it were me i would try not to take any more sub and see what happens. guess it's possible the symptoms may be tolerable for u and that would be it. more than likely if the symptoms are going to be rough they won't show up and begin for several more days.

    u jumped from 8 mg taking it for the last 3 months and that it a huge amount to jump from. sub is extremely powerful, and the half life is very long. due to those 2 factors u may be in for some rough times ahead. just being honest.

    i would just wait and see what happens seeing as u have 4 days clean under ur belt. worst is u may be able to re-induct the sub if the symptoms become intolerable at a much lower dose. then u could begin the taper process and be finished with them.

    the link is below of the sub therapy plan that most use here. if u do indeed induct with more sub u will definitely want to follow this plan. here's the link......

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    the plan is fairly simple and easy to understand. what u want to do is get stable on the lowest dose possible, and then begin to taper that dose by 25% every 4 days or so. the plan explains all of this.

    like i said just give it a few more days and u will know. good luck and let us know how it's going.

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    alexnt is offline Platinum Member
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    Welcome to the forum in4. I see kikker has already given you the link to the plan several here have used. Supposedly the normal half life of suboxne is about 37 hrs. Everyone is different so you may metabolze subs faster then that or shorter then that. if you were takeing 8 mg every day for 3 months and the half life last you 37 hrs when you last took 8 mg 4 days ago you would have had roughly 23 mg of sub in your system at that time. Hard to say if wd is going to hit you hard in the next couple of days or not. >> like to tell you since you already have 4 days clean that you ought to just ride it out. But to be honest i have no idea how your body and mind both are going to feel in the next few days. If it does become intolerable which im not trying to scare you or discourage but which it might then you need to reinduct yourself just like the link Kikker instructs you to. You could probably induct yourself at a much lowed dose then the 8 mg and get stable at that dose and then begin to ween down. It would be nice to see you post that your wd is tolerable and that you didnt need to start using subs agaian. Anything is possible and maybe you will be able to post that but if not then you now have an idea on what to do. My best wishes to you and let us know how things are going with you.
    Alex

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Hello.. thank GOD I got some replies Thank you guys.... u don't know how much this helps.... then again, I bet you do. I'm on day 4 here and still feel nothing yet...but I'm smarter than these damned strips....I knowwwww they are just hiding in a corner waiting to jump me when I least expect it.....so strange that with opiates I'd be almost done with the creepy crawlies but here I haven't started. God....I wish I'd have known this....but then again....would I have started taking them anyway? Probably. I would have rationalized it somehow. That's what an addict does. I have decided to take both of your advice. I figure Im just killing some of the build up by not taking anything... so I'll go until I can't take it anymore. The thing is subs are not unlimited for me....my poor husband shares his subs with me. He runs short every month because of me because he cant bear to see me sick. He is not able to even skip 1 day like apparently I can (also I didn't know I could skip days like this, never tried till now)....maybe he metabolizes them faster than me? I used to skip doses at the methadone clinic and not feel a thing too. He is prescribed 2 1/2 (8mg strips) a day...from what I've read his dose should never have been that high....he started at 3 a day! But he says if he takes 1 he feels sh**** I also know he sometimes takes 3....I think he only does this because he's an addict!. So anyway I felt this was important because its a small part of why I need to be rid of them. I don't like them like he does....I just don't want to be sick so I take them. He also has not had the history I have....he's new to this. He has no idea what he's in for ....I think he prefers to stay on these forever! Not me. EFF this. I tried to explain all I've learned here and it seems like he doesn't hear me. Wait....how did this turn into him? Lol....ANYWAY. ........I am going to follow that taper plan as suggested by kikker...I also feel I should say something I didn't mention....on my last day of subs....o foolishly took one in the am and then said EFF it (again I didn't know about the half life) and took my last one at around 4 pm that same day.....I thought like a junkie of course and said "why prolong it?" Also....in the days before I was all over the place taking half one day then a whole the next ect. So I'll never know what's in my system now lol.....so now I wait....this is hard....sometimes I swear I convince myself I feel "something" ...uh oh ....and then my head says "your gonna make urself sick" I KNOW I have the ability to do this to myself. I have often went to get pills while being sick and felt better on the way there! That's how I know. I know this was a long post but it feels good to write it all down. So I feel good today....waiting. So when it starts...what should I start off with do u guys think? Just know that I felt good on 4mgs....and also 2mgs. Weird how I thought I needed to take more when it felt EXACTLY the same *coughs* addict* Thank you so much for any advice

    P.S. Alex...it WOULD be nice if I could post that I made it with nothing...omg I'd NEVER look back. I'm no wimp and have made it through some real tough withdrawals so we'll see?

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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Hello N4...

    You may start to feel some WD symptoms in the next couple days but at this point I would recommend riding it out, unless it becomes unbearrable.

    If/when the WDs start, just try to get through the first 3-4 days and it gets better everyday after that.

    Here is a quote that I read over and over when I was going through sub detox a few months ago. I hope it helps you if you hit a rough patch...

    If you get to Day 3 you’ve gotten to the mountain top and now all you have to do is slide down. No, the symptoms are not going to go
    away completely all of a sudden, but you have most likely gotten to the most intense part of the withdrawal and will slowly but surely start to get your energy back.
    Even though you may feel the sickest today, tell yourself that you’re beyond the point of turning back now. We know it’s agony but it WILL get better and you WILL
    feel normal again. In fact, at the end of all this you’ll feel a lot better and have a lot more energy than you had when you were on opiates.
    riding it out, unless it becomes unbearrable.
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you sublime I think reading that helps....but when speaking of that 3rd day it is actually only after wd's actually start right? I'm feeling a bit discouraged today because I feel like I've made it 4 days for nothing...that it hasn't even begun yet....very discouraging. I will say this....I almost talked myself into taking 1 mg this morning....I didn't . Is there even any benefit to waiting till wd's start? I feel like these days don't even count. I think I'm psyching myself out. I'm pretty good at that lol

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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    Thank you sublime I think reading that helps....but when speaking of that 3rd day it is actually only after wd's actually start right? I'm feeling a bit discouraged today because I feel like I've made it 4 days for nothing...that it hasn't even begun yet....very discouraging. I will say this....I almost talked myself into taking 1 mg this morning....I didn't . Is there even any benefit to waiting till wd's start? I feel like these days don't even count. I think I'm psyching myself out. I'm pretty good at that lol
    These have certainly not been 4 days for nothing. Even if you run into some WDs.

    What you have done in these 4 days is start a new pattern. We are all creatures of habit. It's been your habit (if you're like me) to seek out something, anything to make you feel better than you currently do, even if you didn't really need it.

    Right now, that's what that 1mg is that you were debating. If you don't "need" it, don't take it. That's just another 1mg that will have to enter and leave your body.

    As addicts, we always think we need something, because it's a habit that we have developed over time.. Try not to let the cravings win and you will slowly begin to forget about this particular habit, but it takes time.

    I hope that makes sense. You are winning right now against the Sub, stay ahead of the game and don't let this opponent catch up. Ever. Stay strong.
    Last edited by Sublime Detox; 03-22-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    It does make sense...and I did forget to mention that I do have some mental stuff happening... obviously craving something ...something I don't even need...your right. Your reply reduced me to tears....wow didn't even see that coming lol Now my nose is all stuffy so thanks. Lol J/K Your post knocked some sense back into me and made me say "yeah... why take anything you feel fine?" Its that "impending doom" feeling that keeps creeping up. ....kinda wish it would just come on already!

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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    It does make sense...and I did forget to mention that I do have some mental stuff happening... obviously craving something ...something I don't even need...your right. Your reply reduced me to tears....wow didn't even see that coming lol Now my nose is all stuffy so thanks. Lol J/K Your post knocked some sense back into me and made me say "yeah... why take anything you feel fine?" Its that "impending doom" feeling that keeps creeping up. ....kinda wish it would just come on already!
    Well, there is probably going to be some crying throughout this detox. I cried while watching a cartoon with my kids when I was in my first few weeks off of subs. It was the cartoon Olivia, and I'm a guy. And I hadn't cried for a decade before that. I also cried listening to a country song. I was a big weinie, but looking back I'm so glad I went through that. It was nice to have emotions back.

    So yea, don't feel bad about the tears, it's typical to be overly emotional right now.

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    OK now I'm smiling....I'm not in any way laughing at what u went through...NEVER . But smiling because my 4 yr old watches Olivia regularly and I'm trying to imagine a moment where it would spark tears in me...and am currently listening to country right now....now that is easily something that could make water fall....EASILY. So....Sublime...did u KNOW that you'd have such a major impact on a stranger's problems today? Thank You. Seriously. You talked me down off that little ledge.
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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    So....Sublime...did u KNOW that you'd have such a major impact on a stranger's problems today? Thank You. Seriously. You talked me down off that little ledge.
    The credit goes to you. You stepped off the ledge. You had the courage to post about your craving before acting on it. You are the one beating this. I'm just cheering you on from the stands. This is how addiction is defeated. One step at a time. Keep stepping girl.
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Will continue stepping.

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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    OK now I'm smiling....I'm not in any way laughing at what u went through...NEVER . But smiling because my 4 yr old watches Olivia regularly and I'm trying to imagine a moment where it would spark tears in me...and am currently listening to country right now....now that is easily something that could make water fall....EASILY.
    4 year old....Nice! I love kids...

    Since your only smiling, and not laughing at me, I feel comfortable enough to share with you why I was crying while watching Olivia...

    It was the episode where....shoot, it was Gaspard and Lisa, not Olivia. My bad.

    It was the episode when Lisa's mom brings home Lisa's new baby sister and Lisa is jelious and feels like she isn't wanted anymore. I have a baby on the way, so it got to me. I was thinking that my kids won't feel as loved because mommy and daddy will be bringing another baby to the house. I know it's silly, but I was very emotional at the time. So trust me, it's normal for you right now.

    Here's the episode...

    http://youtu.be/BoudeuFvyIg

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Lol no need to click that link as I've already seen it hahaha....OK so I can see some emotional moments there , given the situation. I'll be sure to ban Gaspard and Lisa during my detox lol...although I'm sure something else will come along and break me lol....BTW it does make me smile knowing you could find that episode on demand like that hahaha

    P.S. oh yeah...4 yr old adds some definite challenging moments to this battle
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Also...congrats on that new baby! I'm so glad to hear of someone who went through this battle and is happy again....I'd give anything to trade places with u in that aspect.
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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    Also...congrats on that new baby! I'm so glad to hear of someone who went through this battle and is happy again....I'd give anything to trade places with u in that aspect.
    Thanks..

    Keep stepping. We won't have to trade places, we can both be happy.

    Stay strong. If not for yourself, do it for the 4 year old.

    I'm clean for the first time in my kid's lifetimes. I just wish I would've done it sooner. It wasn't until I found this site that I finally realized it was my time to clean up.

    Now it's your time. Come join me in the class of 2013. You're officially invited.
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    I accept that invite and I'll be damned if I don't show up...I understand the feeling of not being clean for most of my child's life as I also have a 15 year old (yeah I know) I bet those kids are glad to have Dad back or for the first time ...they deserve our best and that guilt is entirely another story lol Can't fix what's already been done but sure as h*ll can fix what we do from here on out.
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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    I accept that invite and I'll be damned if I don't show up...I understand the feeling of not being clean for most of my child's life as I also have a 15 year old (yeah I know) I bet those kids are glad to have Dad back or for the first time ...they deserve our best and that guilt is entirely another story lol Can't fix what's already been done but sure as h*ll can fix what we do from here on out.
    Now your talking. That's the additude that wins.

    Time to graduate.

    I have to ask, you don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable....Is the 15 year old a boy or girl? And the 4 year old? I have one of each and I just can't believe the difference in boys and girls. I've been a boy all my life (yeah I know) so I wasn't aware of how high maintenance girls are, no offense of couse lol.

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    None taken lol I have two girls....I KNOW. they are CRAZY different and I have two brothers so I know this to be true....I have to admit that I can be quite high maintenance myself at times but that 15 year old blows me out of water....seriously if she cared half as much about her school work as she does her looks she'd be an A+ student...don't even get me started on her mouth lol

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    P.s. glad to hear you've always been a boy hahaha

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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    None taken lol I have two girls....I KNOW. they are CRAZY different and I have two brothers so I know this to be true....I have to admit that I can be quite high maintenance myself at times but that 15 year old blows me out of water....seriously if she cared half as much about her school work as she does her looks she'd be an A+ student...don't even get me started on her mouth lol
    Oh geesh. I can't wait. About 13 more years and the drama will reach an alltime high. My boy just turned 3, girl is 1.5 and the baby boy will be here next month. Pumping them out. That's how I roll.

    I'm a little high maintenance myself at times.

    As for her mouth, what's the problem? I mean she's 15, she knows everything and you know nothing. Does that sound about right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    P.s. glad to hear you've always been a boy hahaha
    Yea, I was born this way. It's not my fault.

    How you feeling now? Still decent??

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Spoken perfectly....she knows EVERYTHING! Mom is just a big bulley lol.....and ohhhh my do u have your hands full hahaha and you quit subs? You went through this with two babies????? DEAR GOD. LOL Im pretty damn tough but I do believe I would have ripped my hair out .
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    I'm thinking u turned out pretty well. I'm feeling perfectly fine....mental demons visit here and there but otherwise ...trust me I CANNOT complain. I am a dumb*$$ though...I just went to get a coffee and while pulling out my wallet, out popped that sub I forgot I put in my purse...oops it isn't hard to not take it....at least while I feel OK....now had that happened and I was in the throws of death? It woulda been a mental fight at least. I do need to say that I loaded myself up on immodium in the last 3 days , fearing the worst was coming like a dumba** I didn't take any today because I realized it wasn't even needed.
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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    I KNOW its the half life....you can say it...lol
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    Sublime Detox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    Spoken perfectly....she knows EVERYTHING! Mom is just a big bulley lol.....and ohhhh my do u have your hands full hahaha and you quit subs? You went through this with two babies????? DEAR GOD. LOL Im pretty damn tough but I do believe I would have ripped my hair out .
    Yea. It was a really fun time! Not

    I was taking 32mgs a day for about 3-4 years and tappered down quickly and made the jump. I really don't know how I did it, but it wasn't as bad as I anticipated. All of that with 2 small children, a pregnant wife, and nobody in my life that knew ahat I was going through. Honestly, without this site, I would still be using. I truely beleive that. Just trying to pay it forward.

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Good lord....did u suffer a lot? I'm no stranger to wd's but fear them like nobody's business....but who doesn't? How fast of a taper? And how low of a dose did u jump? I was waiting for you to tell me ur story makes me feel less alone....no one knows on my end either....I can't bear to tell anyone what I did to myself. My husband knows but looks like a deer in headlights when I talk about reducing and jumping....these are HIS meds...not mine. I feel like he just wants me to jump Cuz I make him come up short...then he has to buy some...but he still runs out....I do think he's taking much more than he needs but there's that deer in headlights look again.
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  28. #28
    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    Plus its hard to hear 'u can do it" from someone who is taking 24mgs a day..just saying

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    Quote Originally Posted by IN4ITTTT View Post
    Good lord....did u suffer a lot? I'm no stranger to wd's but fear them like nobody's business....but who doesn't? How fast of a taper? And how low of a dose did u jump? I was waiting for you to tell me ur story makes me feel less alone....no one knows on my end either....I can't bear to tell anyone what I did to myself. My husband knows but looks like a deer in headlights when I talk about reducing and jumping....these are HIS meds...not mine. I feel like he just wants me to jump Cuz I make him come up short...then he has to buy some...but he still runs out....I do think he's taking much more than he needs but there's that deer in headlights look again.
    I wouldn't say I suffered a lot, but it's hard to specifically remember your feelings and pains a few months after the fact. I did this without even my wife knowing that I was a user, so she also didn't know I was detoxing. I think that kind of helped me, because I had to stay on my toes at all times.

    I did 50% drops on my taper, instead of 25% like Robert's taper plan recommends. And I also dropped in as short as 3 days at times. I wouldn't recommend this to anybody but it worked for me. I had so much half-life build up that I think it actually helped a bit to carry me through my drops.

    Hopefully you will never have to deal with a taper plan, but if you need to, I'll help you through it and share more details.
    Last edited by Sublime Detox; 03-22-2013 at 02:03 PM.

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    IN4ITTTT is offline Senior Member
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    That's crazy fast but you did it.....and I do believe that having to keep it secret helped....as I had to do that once before as hubby didn't know about me taking methadose pills....it DOES keep you on ur toes but also is hard as hell to go it alone....I still look at "normal people" and watch them, envying them that they walk around smiling with nothing making them smile except life itself....I still have a hard time seeing that I will smile with nothing in me....but I also know from experience that its just the addiction talking. I have been clean and had more energy and often realized that opiates actually made me LESS energetic. I do soooooo hope I don't have to go thru a taper too and if I do I'm glad I have you on my side to help...I'll be holding you to that

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