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11 years of numb...
11 years of numb...
hello, I am new here and this is my first post. I have been lurking and reading a lot over the past 4 or 5 days. I have been on suboxone for a very long time. It came after OCs led to heroin led to subs briefly led to methadone, and finally back to subs.
I am a 32 year old mother of 2. I've been taking 8-12 mg per day for over 2 years, down from 24-36mg prior to that.
I've realized that I don't feel feelings anymore. This week was the first time I've cried in over a year. Some things I've read here have touched me in ways I didn't think were susceptible or accessible any more. I believe that my constant medication has made me content with living a pathetic and mediocre existence.
I need for something to change-- I am pretty sure I want off, that life will be on hold and unfulfilling until that happens. The last decade has been lived with fear of withdrawal being the basis for all else. I don't know what to do.
I don't know who I am without drugs, be they illegal, prescribed, or otherwise.
I know there are many people here who have been thru similar experiences. This is me trying to reach out, hoping for guidance, and wanting more than ever to stop existing and start living. My life has been on hold for far too long.
SS Welcome to the forum, you have taken a big first step, admitting to yourself that you have a problem is huge. I do not know anything about Subs so can't give any advice my wife and I quit cold turkey from a high dose, long term usage for injuries and surgeries. Although doesn't matter if you get your drugs legal or the street the result is the same. We were forced into withdrawals as we ran out and our doctor was out of town. I will say that some one will come by with the right experience and give you advice but getting clean, getting well is totally up to you. This is a tough fight no matter where you are coming from but being on Day 16 I can say it is completely worth it, as little time we have been off the pills we already see differences, improvements in our every day lives. Good luck, stay strong creating an account and reaching out the group is the first step to getting better congrats on that first step!
Thank you. I'm not sure if here was the best sub group to post or what, but if I worried about it too much I probably never would have gone thru with saying anything.
Congratulations on making it to 16 days! I haven't been there or in that mindset in a long long time.
I can relate used prescribed opiates for along time and feel really bad making my wife deal with my weakness. On day 15 today of cleaning up and my Kid and wife both enjoy me more. Anyways sounds like your wanting to make a change for the better which is where it all starts, just takes commitment to see it though to the end.
If you want to read about the best way you can taper your Subs this is the Gold Standard:
thank you. I have read parts of that from lurking & clicking around. my dr prescribes me 60 strips per month. I see him again oct. 7th. haven't discussed wanting to stop with him, am afraid he will cut dose too low & would rather do this myself. I have one strip per day left till that date, plus maybe 3 extra. Already took a half strip (4mg) today and hope to only take 4 mg more, but we'll see. Yesterday I had 12 mg. not sure if I should start the taper from 12 mg or 8. also not sure when to start.
I also take vyvanse almost daily, 60mg. It is a stimulant. I got it to try to make up for the fact that I have no energy ever. My house has been a mess for years. I don't know what's wrong with me that I can't fix anything on my own. This wasn't supposed to be my life....
The general rule of thumb is not to drop more than 25% at a time. You can use Robert's plan no matter what dose you start at.
Your options are to reinduct at a lower dose but I don't think you want to do that since you've been on subs for awhile. It makes more sense to start tapering, drop 25% every 4 days. Check out the taper plan the husband posted. 12mg is a very high dose of subs, they are powerful. I think as you drop you will feel better. Less is more with subs. The symptoms you are experiencing are likely because of the high dose you're on.
Just curious why the 4 day thing? What about the vyvanse? I feel so stuck...
By the way, I reposted this in the need to talk section. I hoped maybe others who perhaps don't come in the suboxone board might see, but not yet. I haven't even seriously thought about coming off of these in such a long time. This is all stirring up so much in me that a big part of me kept dead and hidden. I'm uncomfortable with all these feelings, I have been telling myself that I was ok because I am on the subs, and legally at that.
I guess I never really dealt with my addiction and just tried to pave over it with subs. That got easier to do as time went on. But now I don't know where to begin to sort out my head, and I cannot rip open all these old scars with my mom/family--- I'm lucky they still speak to me after all I've put them thru.
What a mess.
Did you read the link? 4 days allows your body to adjust & stabilize. It takes several days for the drops to affect you because of the long half life of subs.
I don't know anything about vyvanse, what is it for?
I saw your post on the other thread. when I looked here I saw you ate getting some replies. If you can stick to one thread it will be helpful for us to help you Better. Steph gave you good info on the taper. Both her and I tapered successfully using the 25% method.
I noticed that you said your pretty sure you are ready. The best advice I can give is if you want to be successful, you have to want this more than you've ever wanted anything!!!! It takes a lot of commitment. You can do it! It won't be a walk in the park, but we are proof it can be done!!!
Vivanse is ADD medication right?? Are you wanting to get off that to?
First off...there is lots and lots of hope for quitting sub. You're on a high dosage even at 8-12mg. I can totally relate to feeling numb an emotionless. I am almost 9 months sub free after being on it for years. A lot of your emotion will come back even as you taper. So just know that you will start feeling and processing emotions even before you quit totally. You need to taper slow and steady. Remember the worst case scenario is relapse so a slow steady taper is best IMO. Exercise was huge for me as was a supportive dr. I tapered pretty easily down to 2 mg then I stalled out due to fear of withdrawal. I eventually worked up the courage to jump. My thread was "tapered to .5 mg now comes the hard part". I won't repeat all that is there so as not to be redundant. Huge congrats on beating the H. Quitting sub is attainable, even for those of us who have been on it long periods of time. My life is totally normal. I totally changed my life and sub was a big part of that. It allowed me to function and learn how not to go back. You can do this. Do not try to quit it at your current dose. Use the taper and we are here for you when you need us.
Welcome to the forums systolic and congrats on wanting to get off subs. You need to stay at the same amount of subs for a few days then you start the taper plan that is outlined here. You said that you have read the taper plan here so then you should have no problem starting. I don't want to seem rude here by asking you this but im only trying to figure your daily useage. You said your Dr prescribes you 60 a month and you said you take between 8 and 12 mg a day. Your next Dr appointment is Oct 7 and you have 1 strip a day left plus 3 extra. Your 17 days away from Oct 7 so it sounds like you have about 20 strips left out of 60. Where did the other 40 strips go in 2 weeks? Its not really important where they went maybe you lost them im just trying to understand if you have been using more then 8 to 12 mg a day to help you start a taper plan is all. If you have been bouncing in between 8 and 12 mg a day and you only have 3 extras then you could start your taper at 10mg and get good and stable there then begin to use the taper plan. Take a 8 mg strip and cut in to 4 2mg pieces and start at 10 mg and stay there for 5 or 6 days then make your first drop a 20% drop to 8 mg to keep things simple then work from there. I suggested starting at 10 mg because I don't know how many days you've taken 12 or 8 recently so 10 would be more then enough to get you started. Also as far as your Doctor goes I would not inform him of your plans to taper as some Drs will get upset at the thought of losing a patients money and its probably better to not let him know. Best wishes to you and let us know how its going for you.
good morning. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to talk to me, so thank you all for your support & suggestions.
Vyvanse is an add med. I take it for energy, as I am prone to sleeping a lot--- for 16 hours and up sometimes. It also has helped me lose some of the disgusting amount of weight I gained during the 5 years I was on methadone. Ideally I would like to be off of that as well. I can't even remember the last time my brain/body has been 100% free from chemicals. That's probably the reason I am hesitant about stopping everything. I do want it, but those moments of clarity are few & far between.
I counted my strips to be sure, and there are 22 left. To be completely honest, I have to sell almost half of them each month to be able to get by financially. It is only to a couple friends who aren't able to go to a dr for them, and they use them to stay away from pills. (I don't want anyone to worry that people are getting high off of my script.)
I am taking half a strip right now. I think you're right that 10 mg would be an ideal place to start for me, so I don't intend to take more than that amount today. I will probably take the other half of a strip this afternoon, and then 2mg more in the evening.
I went back and read the entire page about the 25% taper. It seems totally reasonable and doable. At this point my question is mostly about when to start. But I guess if I don't exceed 10mg today that would mean that I'm starting today, right?
I do want off of this stuff, it's just the fear of withdrawal--- my main motivation for over a decade-- is so strong that it coupled with the meds and my junkie brain makes it very difficult to grasp the idea of being on nothing. I hope that makes sense, because I don't really know how else to describe it.
I think you're right about having everything be in one place. Can I or someone close out the other thread?
I agree soooo much with what you said above. When you are ready to taper, just know and prepare yourself for the fact that the absolute hardest part is the last 1mg to zero. It is going to take me a total of 6 months to go from 2mg to zero. I have my plan all written out, exactly what dosage I am going to take, what supplements I am going to take, what exercise I am going to do each day. You HAVE to be prepared.
Originally Posted by systolic_suckerpunch
But I think the most important thing is that like me, you have reached a point where you know you have to do it. I know my life is going to be sh*tty for the next 2-6 months (hopefully not more, but maybe). But I know that if I don't do this now, I am going to be miserable for even longer. So use that leverage. When you are going through WD and it seems hopeless, just try to remember how you feel now and how you don't want to live a life of mediocrity. Hopefully that will give you fuel.
Thank you cd4. you're right, you all are right, though it's one thing to know it intellectually vs actually doing it. How long have you been on them & what dose did you start at, if you don't mind me asking? I can't even imagine bring down to one mg or less. Congratulations on making it that far!
To istrvler and the husband, how are you guys doing with everything?
I actually did save the original post from last night, so i just reposted on that thread. It has all the info about how long and what dosage.
Good luck in your recovery SSP. I will be here to support you.
If you just continue to post on this thread, the other one will go away on its own. Not that it will disappear completely but it will get buried.
OK, I wouldnt suggest trying to get off both meds at the same time. Start with tapering the subs and once off of them you can begin to tackle the ADD medication. Im glad you are ready to start this journey. We will be here to help!!! You can do this!!!!
SS, the question is how are you doing?
I am doing great compared to 10 day ago - last few years, but us that are over 14 days since last dose may have some mental demons to battle but its people like you who are still in the most "intense part of the battle" and need the words of encouragement & support from people who have been there and done it coming out the other side of the "valley of death"
Those who over come opiate addiction end up being some of the most driven, motivational & strong souls my Dad was a heroin dealer and got busted by the FEDS had to detox in Jail said he almost died because they wouldn't get him medical help and couldn't keep liquid down for 2 weeks, and guess what he stayed clean and was a great dad never used after he got out of Jail 30+ yrs then ended up dying from H because he used a dirty needle. I have learned though life what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and dealing with something like "opiates" coming from someone who as a child laughed at pain broke almost every bone in my body, and can honestly say i "lost myself" and I know I will probably take >>>> for this but listen to Eminem's song "Talkin' 2 my self" put it on repeat and listen to the lyrics.
To all those who care to understand "I hit the rock bottom so hard I bounced twice" don't let that be you because trust me if you have never been through withdrawl your lucky everyone gets onetime where its "less painful, and less mental" then the hooks just get deeper...
I find reading people's post who relapse is not a good thing to do even if you think you will learn from there mistakes the human mind will say they are worse then me, I am not like that , that will never be me, remember opiates are and evil drug in a class of their own people use them to hide from pain, physical or mental and all it truly is, is a mirage that will present herself/himself as a miracle that once he/she gets you it can bring the strongest person to a shell of them self.
By the way I studied to by a psychologist and my wife did as well so we look deep into things.
Hey SS thanks for asking we are doing ok. We see a real difference in the morning. Still not getting a full nights sleep but what we are getting must be working. I am having more trouble than my wife is, although I slept about 5 hours last night which is not bad for me. As I said the mornings is where we see the most difference we wake up ready to roll, no hang over felling or feeling like a lead weight is attached to our bodies. Kind of just get up and start moving, feel really good. by the afternoon or night we are beat and that when this whole things kind of still kicks us in the butt. We get tired and cranky feeling the impacts of the w/d to a certain extent, nothing like the fist 10 days or so but still feel a lack of energy and tired as the day goes on. Get the feeling like we are wearing 20 lb. ankle weights and our legs are heavy, but other than that we are feeling good. Still crave pills every once in while and get this feeling of "it ok you can handle this just take one and your shoulders and neck will feel so much better" . The problem with that is deep down I know I won't take just one, that I will stay in control for a couple of days and then boom be taking 10 Percocet and 4 -5 oxymorphone all over and let me tell you that just leads to days 1-4 which I never want to relive. Never felt that bad in my life and don't plan on going back. Had a root canal today and the Novocain has worn off and you know what its sore but its under control taking Advil and Tylenol and it seems to be working so hey who knew. We are on the road to recovery still have a long way to go but everyday I get more confident we are going to make it and can't wait to meet the old me!!!!
I've definitely been thru withdrawals, enough to have spent years working to prevent them at the expense of everything/everyone else in my life.
I would LOVE to know how it feels to wake up in the morning with a bounce in my step, or at least the energy and desire to face the day. For as long as I can remember, when I wake up all I want to do is go back to sleep. When that's an option, that's exactly what I do. My boyfriend and I are on very thin ice. He hates that when he gets home from work I usually make a bee line to my room and not be seen till the next day. It's not fair to my kids either. I wish I could be the mom they deserve, but I just feel drained and like a zombie instead of a person. I just want to be normal and enjoy my kids instead of hiding under my blankets. I don't know what's wrong with me.
So far I have only taken 8mg. I may or may not take another 2. To be completely honest, I smoke weed, almost everyday, and that helps somewhat with getting out of bed. I'm sure I'm depressed but I will not take another anti-depressant. I've tried all of them thru the years except prozac. At least weed is of the earth, and I see nothing wrong with it. Some may say that's not acceptable to be "clean", but in my eyes cigarettes are much more harmful.
Anyway, congrats to you guys for making it this far. It's a place that I can't even imagine where I'm @ right now. Like I said before, I don't know who I am without drugs. And if I don't know me, my kids and boyfriend can't possibly. My son is 9 and I feel terrible about pretty much every aspect of his existence. He is the sweetest kid, and he deserves the world. My daughter will be 2 right around thanksgiving, and I don't want to look back in regret for her whole life either.
Sometime I will post my story, but now is not the time. It's a tale of woe not unlike all of us here I'm sure, but there is a lot I have tucked aside, hidden away, and numbed as much as possible. The guilt and regret is overwhelming. I don't want to devote any more years to something that never should have happened in the first place.
Thank you to everyone who has replied. It helps immeasurably to know that I'm not alone.
I'd be willing to bet money as you get your sub dose down, that zombie feeling will not be there. Subs are very powerful and less really is more. You will be surprised how good you feel as you get lower.
Also try to give yourself a break. We've all done things we are not proud of during active addiction. The important thing is what you do now. Try not to beat yourself up. You can do this. Do it for YOU!! Your boyfriend and kids will see the change in you.
Have you given any thought to NA? That may really help with the guilt feelings you are having.
Last edited by whatsinaname; 09-20-2013 at 08:38 PM.
I deicded to do this taper thing. I took my last 2 mg just now. Told my boyfriend about it. Marking my colander the date $ dose. I forgot that there is one emotion that doesn't get numbed out, which is anger. I get so angry about the most trivial stuff. Well not -all- of it, but more than a fair share.
Anyway, the pretty sure is now a very sure.
I used to smoke all the time too but quit back in June to gear up for quitting opiates. Smoking trees just sapped my desire to do things other than lay around on the Internet even more and made me lazy. Thought it would suck stopping but once got past the first month I look back and wonder why I kept doing it. Only time I even think about it or get a small craving now is when I get ready to watch a movie or play PC games because I would always smoke before doing those, but funny thing is more than half the time I'd smoke and then never turn on the game lol and get lost on the Internet. Yeah... I don't miss trees at all. Next on my list after opiates is cigarettes and that's the addiction I fear most.
Originally Posted by systolic_suckerpunch
Last edited by IwillWin13; 09-20-2013 at 11:17 PM.
Ok it looks like you are starting at 10 mg to start your taper. Starting tomorrow I would divide your 10 mg into 2 doses and get on a set schedule where you take the same amount at the same time everyday. Like 5 mg in the am and 5 more about 10 hrs later. You should get good and stable at 10 mg then when you are drop to 8 mg a day. At this point just start following the taper plan as it is outlined. You have been on subs for a long period of time so you might have to taper slower then a person that has been on them short term but don't worry about that for now. There a plenty of people who are members of this site that have been on high doses for years and have been able to wean off using the taper plan here. As you get to lower doses you will start to feel better as crazy as that sounds but you will find it out to be true. Keep on posting daily and myself and others will be here to give you support.
SS I just wanted too add that I noticed in one of your post about the fear of WD. While I want on subs the amount of time you have been I was on 12 mg a day for about the first 3 weeks I was on them and after 5 weeks what at 8 mg a day when I started using the taper plan here. I dropped my doses using a 6 day schedule mostly and weaned down to around .187 befor I started skipping days and never once in the little less then 3 months I took me from here to taper did I ever once feel any WD symtoms. I never noticed a single drop during the entire taper. Little bump in the road here and there but was it and when I jumoed had very little symtoms only very minor ones at that like a little extra extra sneezing was all. Ont let any horror stories scare you because in most cases the persons who had problems either jumped at to high of a dose or weaned down quicker then they should have. Just wanted to post that to you to let you know you don't need to suffer WD if you follow the taper plan correctly. Talk with you later/
Day 2 @ 10mg, so far so good. Finding myself pretty moody & quick to anger. Trying to stay focused on the present moment. I'm hoping that once off of these subs I'll finally be able to meditate. I feel like they are physically blocking my spiritual energy. Hoping to stick with it, I have never been able to see anything thru.
I hope everyone here who is freshly clean off subs is doing well.
just wanted to add that Im sure my moods are due to the mere decision to quit--- there's no possible way to be withdrawing yet. It helps to know its all in my head.
If you have a chance you should read Alex's thread. Also, What's, Harrysmooth and even mine. We all used subs to get clean, it helps to read other success stories. Alex's thread is "End of Sub Taper"
Try to stay away from the negative stories, there are a lot of them. But the positive stories prove it can be done and it helped me to focus on those.
I agree with What's, you will start to feel better. You are on a very high dose and I think as you get lower you will feel more alert and clear headed.
today is day 3 @ 10mg. I understand I need to take the 10 tomorrow, but what about after that. Should I go to 8, or 7.5 or what for the following 4 days?
Also, I am starting to make my way thru the threads you mentioned. Thank you for the suggestion, and thanks to everyone for the support.
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