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!st time poster....desperate need of advise/insight
  1. #1
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    Unhappy !st time poster....desperate need of advise/insight

    Hello all, 1st post and hopefully one of my last.

    OK, here is my situation; I have had a pretty bad oxy/roxy habit over the last year and change(150+ mg average a day). I have a beautiful 3 year old that I love more than life itself, decent job that I am ruining due to this ????show of a life I have created for myself. I am sick of my life revolving around these awful things and financially ruining myself in the process so I have tried to quit. I decided to do a short suboxone taper(7-10 days) 2, 8 mg pills(one of which....I lost!!!! Don't ask). Anyway, a week ago Wednesday I got the subs, waited about 30 hours and started with 2 mgs and lowered my doseage each day. At first I felt OK, but after 3 or 4 days I was feeling very depressed, lethargic, insomnia, RLS, cold like symptoms, felt almost like I was going cold turkey. 6 days after I started the sub detox(and 2 days before my plannned jump off) I ????ed up. I took 1 30 mg roxi, figuring since it was less than my normal intake and only 12 hours after taking suboxone(albeit a very smalll amount) it would just take the edge off a bit and not really set me back. Unfortunately I only had 2 little pebbles(about .5-.70 total) left. I woke up the next morning feeling like death. I went to work for about a half day, leaving in the midddle of the afternoon with "flu-like symptoms" and took a 2 mg klonopin and a couple benadryl so I could maybe sleep the next few hours until I could take a sub. I managed to catch some zz's and woke up feeling like I was in full WDS and took one of the pebbles. It really did not do much, so I waited a bit over an hour and took my last piece. It took the edge off for a couple hours but that's about it. The next 24 hours I felt HORRIBLE. I gave in about 2 hours ago and took 2 blues(approx 24 hours since my jump off). I feel like a total failure, but I will admit, pyhsicaly I feel a lot better.

    So i guess what I am getting at is where do I go from here/what willl happen? Did I set myself back to square one or will I just be in moderate-medium withdrawals? Should i bite the bullet and go to detox? Should I man up and just go cold turkey? Despite my 2 ???? ups I am very committed to making this right. I managed to remain a very casual, occasional user for a couple years prior to succuming to full blown addiction. Should I try getting a couple more subs? I kind of feel like I had the right idea(short term) but 8 mg wasn't quite enough.

    I apologize for rambling but I just feel more lost and scared then I ever had my whole life. I've dealt with a lot of crazy ???? in my life but always remained in control, until now. I know a lot of you guys have been there and can relate. Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On a side note I've heard Kratom works great, but not sure if it will work for me. Sorry again for the long post but.......I just need some help and I trust your words over these so called addiction specialist Drs. Any reply on the board would be great or you can email or IM me @ jordanl0225@aol.com. Any advise or anything would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    ohithurts is offline Junior Member
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    Hi jetsfan, I wish I knew what to tell you. I just wanted to say hi and I know how it is to post and wait on a reply. I have never taken sub, but am on methadone and fentanyl patches and scared about that. Hang on and someone will answer you soon, sometimes it takes a few....hang in there....BB
    OneDayAttaTime likes this.

  3. #3
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohithurts View Post
    Hi jetsfan, I wish I knew what to tell you. I just wanted to say hi and I know how it is to post and wait on a reply. I have never taken sub, but am on methadone and fentanyl patches and scared about that. Hang on and someone will answer you soon, sometimes it takes a few....hang in there....BB
    I hope so bro. I know there are a bunch of posts just like mine everyday but it helps just getting it out, you know? especially with people you know can relate
    ohithurts likes this.

  4. #4
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You cannot do a "short" suboxone taper on two 8mg. pills. You need to man up and get to a doctor to prescribe the suboxone, if that's the way you want to go. It's no wonder you feel like death warmed over. You are in constant w/d. That's why the roxy's are helping you. You either need to suck it up and go c/t and deal with the w/d or get to a doctor and "fess up" and get the amount of suboxone you need to get through a decent taper. Those are your two choices at this point. You just keep putting yourself into w/d. In fact, you've been in w/d since you started the suboxone. You did that with the "suboxone" taper. Is it true you only had 2 8g? Let me know. Two things you should read under featured conditions or featured drugs is the Thomas Recipe for going c/t. The other is this suboxone protocol under featured drugs. Do not use Kratom. If Kratom was a cure all for w/d then we wouldn't need this sight LOL. Get back with me.

    When was your last suboxone?
    Did you only have two? (give me dates)
    How many roxy/oxy have you taken since you started the subs?

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  5. #5
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    Hi Jetsfan . . . I'm just jumping in to offer my sympathy. Most everyone here has been, or will be, where you are now. You're not alone.

    I can't advise you on suboxone usuage, but Iloerose can. Answer her questions and follow her advice and you'll be on your way.

    I think you'd be well served by going to an NA meeting. I'm serious. Just google NA in your location and go. You don't have to say a word; just go. I PROMISE you it will make you feel better. I sure did me.
    iloerose and ARTIST658 like this.

  6. #6
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibberishNonsense View Post
    Hi Jetsfan . . . I'm just jumping in to offer my sympathy. Most everyone here has been, or will be, where you are now. You're not alone.

    I can't advise you on suboxone usuage, but Iloerose can. Answer her questions and follow her advice and you'll be on your way.

    I think you'd be well served by going to an NA meeting. I'm serious. Just google NA in your location and go. You don't have to say a word; just go. I PROMISE you it will make you feel better. I sure did me.
    I know that many people do not like the "god" part or the "higher power" part and have a hard time with this. However, when you think back about your drug use/addiction, especially when you're in the grips of it, you're like "I'm a rational person with degree, I'm smart, intelligent, why am I doing this?" However, I've learned that these aren't questions I can answer. I need to give up these thoughts to the universe, god, whatever you believe in, because, honestly? I cannot rationalize my drug use. I don't know why. It's like when I get a migraine, I'll get a super depression first. I don't know why I get this depression, I could be presented with a check for a million bucks everything could absolutely be going my way and still I'd have that depression just before a migraine. So like gibberish says NA WORKS. We can get you clean, but we can't keep you clean. You can post here, but we may as well as be a million miles away. NA, get a sponsor with some substantial clean time, and you have someone right there when the urge to use hits you. I don't mean that we won't be here for you, it's just that you have that connectedness to others who are going through/have experienced what you have.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

    Please answer the questions and I'll try to get you through the hellish time getting off of these insidious things.
    surfdog likes this.

  7. #7
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    See . . . I've been thinking about this. And I don't want anyone to misunderstand. I've only been to I think ten NA meetings in my life, but as I understand it the "God" in NA can be whatever you want it to be. If you're already into the Judeo-Christian God, then the decision is made for you, but if not . . . just give it up to the Light or the Universe or to my own personal concoction STIY, which I happen to pronounce in my head like a stye on one's eye. Anyway, it stands for Something That Isn't You. Because the you in this case (me) isn't really able to do a lot on its own. I've tried and it ain't workin'. So now I'm trying something that isn't me.

    I think people get too "too" about higer powers. Face it. There are things out there greater and lesser than us. To not think so seems a bit arrogant. But that's just me.

  8. #8
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    MAn listen to Rose and gibberish We will be here to help Dog

  9. #9
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    Hi Ilo,

    Actually.....it was 1 8 mg sub(I lost one!). I made the 8 last exactly a week(thursday-thursday). I took 1 roxy 30 the days before I jumped off the sub. I dont think the 1 roxy did anything since I took it only 10 hours after a sub(a very small amount though). Last night(I dont remember when exactly) I took 2 roxies.

    I am aware of the Thomas recipie and have been taking a multivitamin, Immodium, Klonopin, hot showers, etc. I havent been following it word for word, but have been using those things to ease the withdrawals and THEY ARE NOT WORKING! I am very open to going to the Dr. but the thing is I currently have no insurance(my boss cancelled it a couple weeks ago, it will be 2 weeks-1month until I have it again).

    I realize 1, 8mg sub is a bit of a reach but shouldnt 7 days of (mostly) abstaining from roxy/oxy be enough to mostly get it out of my system?! Why do I feel like I am still at square one? I know I f@@ked up taking a couple but.....I just dont know

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan View Post
    Hi Ilo,

    Actually.....it was 1 8 mg sub(I lost one!). I made the 8 last exactly a week(thursday-thursday). I took 1 roxy 30 the days before I jumped off the sub. I dont think the 1 roxy did anything since I took it only 10 hours after a sub(a very small amount though). Last night(I dont remember when exactly) I took 2 roxies.

    I am aware of the Thomas recipie and have been taking a multivitamin, Immodium, Klonopin, hot showers, etc. I havent been following it word for word, but have been using those things to ease the withdrawals and THEY ARE NOT WORKING! I am very open to going to the Dr. but the thing is I currently have no insurance(my boss cancelled it a couple weeks ago, it will be 2 weeks-1month until I have it again).

    I realize 1, 8mg sub is a bit of a reach but shouldnt 7 days of (mostly) abstaining from roxy/oxy be enough to mostly get it out of my system?! Why do I feel like I am still at square one? I know I f@@ked up taking a couple but.....I just dont know
    Man, you can't do it that way. Rose is right: You're going to have to choose one of two options, and both of them require you to to grow a pair. A) Go cold turkey and don't take ANYTHING or B) Get enough subs to do a taper of about month. If it were me, I'd go the sub route but you should read this site and make that decision for yourself.

    Read Robert's taper. I'll post a link below. Holler at me if I can help.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    Last edited by GibberishNonsense; 08-25-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  11. #11
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    First off, thank you guys for the tips and kind words.

    I read Roberts taper plan.....and it was very similar to my own! I waited as long as possible before starting the sub, decreased my intake by about 25% everyday(started @ 2 mg). Was there a few differences in our plans, yea, but in principle my taper was very similar to his.

    In reagrds to you guys suggesting NA......ehhh I dont know. I will be honest I have been to NA once and all it did was make me want to get high more. I do definitley need some support system, but I guess I am kind of at a loss there.

    Maybe the problem is I am just not ready. Yea, I very much WANT TO quit, but why cant I do it?! I wish I knew the answer.....and of course, the solution.
    InnerSpirit and surfdog like this.

  12. #12
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan View Post
    First off, thank you guys for the tips and kind words.

    I read Roberts taper plan.....and it was very similar to my own! I waited as long as possible before starting the sub, decreased my intake by about 25% everyday(started @ 2 mg). Was there a few differences in our plans, yea, but in principle my taper was very similar to his.

    In reagrds to you guys suggesting NA......ehhh I dont know. I will be honest I have been to NA once and all it did was make me want to get high more. I do definitley need some support system, but I guess I am kind of at a loss there.

    Maybe the problem is I am just not ready. Yea, I very much WANT TO quit, but why cant I do it?! I wish I knew the answer.....and of course, the solution.

    Dear Jetsfan,

    You can't do it because this is an addiction - which means it is more powerful than you. It is ruling your mind, your heart and your body. The solution lies in a 12-step program of recovery that addresses ALL aspects of this addiction. If ONE meeting didn't impress you to return, then try another meeting. Or try another one of the 12 step groups. AA is just as good as NA, but you might find a different 'climate' to the meetings. CR (Celebrate Recovery) is a Christian perspective, but the same 12 steps. One meeting should not be your guide. This is your lifeline.

    I resisted the meetings, too - and ended up struggling for 4 full years, desperately trying to do it on my own. This disease is simply too powerful - and too complex - for us to be able to overcome it by sheer will. This disease affects every aspect of our lives - physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually; it affects our relationships, our careers and our finances. It affects our self-esteem and self-confidence. It rules our minds, leading us to toss aside our own set of values, just to have more drugs. It makes parents neglect their children; it makes responsible, educated, hard-working people become bums; it makes us lie, cheat and steal. Addiction basically hijacks our brain - and by doing so, it hijacks our lives. We come to loathe the person we become, and that shame and guilt just makes us want to use all the more. It's insanity.

    When you really look at this, is there really any question why we can't recover all on our own?

    During the 4 years that I tried this on my own (rather arrogantly seeing myself as an intelligent, educated, articulate young lady who felt she could think her way through just about anything), my disease progressed tremendously. My drug use went off the charts. I also started abusing alcohol during this time, so that by the end, I was a late stage alcoholic. This disease ALWAYS progresses; that's inevitable. It never goes backwards; we can never regain control.

    When I run across someone who isn't willing to do meetings, what I see is someone who, apparently, is not miserable enough from their addiction. I'm not being facetious. Because when we're truly miserable, we become willing to do ANYTHING to relieve us of our suffering. No one wants to go to AA or NA. No one walks into those meetings when they're new, with a smile on their face and a skip in their walk. It's hard. It takes courage. The keys to these recovery programs are Honesty, Open-mindedness and Willingness. (aka "HOW" it works.) The 12 steps programs do not work for everyone; it works only for those who truly WANT to find recovery. Many NEED it, but that is rarely enough. If we are closed off to the only solution that has successfully worked for so many other addicts, we're in trouble.

    My suggestion - try another meeting. If that isn't what you need, try another. Try another town. Try another 12-step group. If we are closed off to the help we can gain from these groups - we sit there, closed off from hearing what we need to hear. If we are closed off, we sit and compare ourselves with the others who are there; we basically decide, "I'm not like these people." But if we're open, we listen. We make the effort to try to identify with the others; to try to find what we share in common, rather than compare. What we share in common is that we have the same disease. And, although our experiences may be different, we have experienced the same kind of feelings. And that's a good place to start.

    The choice is yours.

    God bless,
    Ruth


    You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.

  13. #13
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfan View Post
    Hi Ilo,

    Actually.....it was 1 8 mg sub(I lost one!). I made the 8 last exactly a week(thursday-thursday). I took 1 roxy 30 the days before I jumped off the sub. I dont think the 1 roxy did anything since I took it only 10 hours after a sub(a very small amount though). Last night(I dont remember when exactly) I took 2 roxies.

    I am aware of the Thomas recipie and have been taking a multivitamin, Immodium, Klonopin, hot showers, etc. I havent been following it word for word, but have been using those things to ease the withdrawals and THEY ARE NOT WORKING! I am very open to going to the Dr. but the thing is I currently have no insurance(my boss cancelled it a couple weeks ago, it will be 2 weeks-1month until I have it again).

    I realize 1, 8mg sub is a bit of a reach but shouldnt 7 days of (mostly) abstaining from roxy/oxy be enough to mostly get it out of my system?! Why do I feel like I am still at square one? I know I f@@ked up taking a couple but.....I just dont know
    Depending on how many Roxies you were taking, the duration of w/d may be longer. You didn't get here overnight and you won't get out of it overnight. YOU NEED TO WANT THIS MORE THAN ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE. You need to abstain and deal with the symptoms. The Thomas Recipe was initiated to help deal with symptoms and it's o.k. to modify it as long as it doesn't include taking any other opiates to alleviate your symptoms. You just have to dig in. Usually the physical symptoms start to get better within 5-10 days. Some, depending experience the physical side 3-5 days. Then you need to get your natural endorphines moving again. You do that by exercising as soon as you are able and to the extent you are able. The sooner the better. Use gatorade, not only to stay hydrated, but for cramping, some also use hylands restful leg. Sleep is the hard part, but you won't die from lack of sleep, just watch t.v., listen to music, get on the net, etc. Exercise, warm baths or showers before bed, sleepy time tea, melatonin. Whatever, but you have to commit.

    Also the sub taper: Subs were not designed only to get you through the physical w/d of addiction, but to give you time to adjust and get a clean life together. That is the purpose of the subs. Anyone can get clean, it's dang hard to stay that way. That's why your "quick" taper wouldn't work. Like I said, we didn't get to where we are in our addictions quickly, it's nonsense to think that we can "quickly" get over it and that we will do so without doing any work or going through the discomfort necessary to get clean.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  14. #14
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Listen to what Ruth is telling you above.

    Iloerose

  15. #15
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    Hi Ruth,

    There is a little more to the NA/AA meetings. When I said it just made me want to get high/drunk was true and I have always had a preconceived notion that AA and NA were "cultish" which is, admittedly close-minded and arrogant on my part. But there is more. My ex wife has her own issues and has been attending meetings in the area. We are not in the boonies and are actually pretty close to the city but my available options are still very few(if I lived in nyc it would be much easier). I do not drive, which makes it even harder for me to get to meetings, otherwise I would check a few of them out. I guess that is why this board is almost like NA to me.

    I am in sales, and in order to make money I have to write business. In order to do that I have to function, so for the next few days I am "maintaining".....just doing enough so that i am not sick and switching to oxycodone 10 mgs. I should probably get suboxone this week and it will be the right amount. I have also decided to try Roberts taper plan......it makes sense, and from reading these boards it seems a vast majority feel that it works. If I can't get the subs I will bite the bullet and go seek treatment. I know my odds are slim trying to beat these f@@king demons but I have to try. I will keep you all updated about my progress(or lack of). Thank you all again for listening and sharing your thoughts and advice.

  16. #16
    OneDayAttaTime is offline New Member
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    Hi jetsfan, I just posted my first post a few minutes ago before I found yours. I also have little ones that I love more than anything and I am ready to commit to making this change. I quit cold turkey 7 days ago and its been rough. I don't want to do the NA thing like you said as well. I went with an ex of mine several times a long time ago and that's just not my thing. I am confident I can do this. I've tried a couple times before but just never really had the drive to keep it going past day 2-3 or so. If you need someone to talk to, I'd be happy to rely on eachother a bit I hope all is well and you are sticking with it!!! I have read other posts and it seems we should be feeling better soon!!! WE CAN DO IT )
    jetsfan, 1badhabit and iloerose like this.

  17. #17
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    When you are ready to go on the subs, let us know. You can do this. Keep posting your progress. Seems like OneDay has made you a good offer. It's easier if you buddy up with someone. Keep us informed.

    Iloerose

  18. #18
    jetsfan is offline New Member
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    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by ddcmod; 09-08-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  19. #19
    1badhabit is offline Junior Member
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    Hi jets fan I'm also pretty new around here and would like to help our stories have some things in common and let me tell you I've ruined so many great jobs because of my addiction you have to decide no one else can listen to these people their smart. I'm on day seven and let me atleast say I don't regret quitting at all only so regret losing myself for so many years the real you is in there but is never going to come back until you quit message me anytime I'm out of time got to pick up my 5 year old from friends house you can do this quit suck it up cupcake joke but deep down you know I'm right

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