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ROBERT: DOC THINKS I NEED TO STAY ON SUBS..help
  1. #1
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    Default ROBERT: DOC THINKS I NEED TO STAY ON SUBS..help

    I am wary of my Dr. because he has seen me fall 5 times now and is convinced that I need to STAY on subs.
    I tried to detox too fast last time and like you said would happen...I went back to the hydros
    He is the only doc that will let me go at my own pace but as I said he thinks I should STAY on subs..he will however let me choose my own speed and I am going to INSIST that we induce using YOUR method. I would love to be able to consult you for the process though. I have read soooo many success stories here. You really do give hope, and karma really owes you big. I know we spoke a few weeks ago then I got really really sick (I had a "viral infection" and it hit me as I was trying to induce last time, I was afraid I was mistaking symptoms and couldnt use the COWS properly, and I was right! I measured 30+ because I was sick, NOT dope-sick) I was given anti-biotics and it has finaly cleared, then of coure..I got an abscessed molar extracted so I wouldnt have any reason to use painkillers after this..I am type 2 diabetic and it took 6 days to stop bleeding! I'm just now ready to go again. Please let me know if you are willing to do this with me. You must have INFINATE patience..if only the medical community would educate themselves to the extent that you have, maybe these forums wouldnt be necessary.
    Also, why..if in France, they have micro-doses for bupe, do they only come in 2 & 8 mgs here? makes NO sense to me now that I truly understand how powerful a drug it really is. I don't understand why suboxone is even MADE in 8mg tabs? Is it really just to make $? at the expense of all of US?
    I am anxiously awaiting your response and regardless of if you have the time to squeeze one more pill-shovel (me) into your already busy schedule. I WILL use YOUR taper procedure/plan.
    Thank you SO much for your time and patience...and BTW..I DO wish you could be compensated as well as these "rapid detox" places..you have earned a place in heaven my friend.
    *EDIT* I forgot to ask my question...I keep reading that there is a method using water and a syringe to make proper micro-doses...do you reccomend this for end of taper? My doctor uses the strips, will they work for the water method? Doctor will let me choose what I want to use but it scares me that he thinks it's ok to stay in opiate void for life..I did 3 years on subs and it was AWFUL. I have no chronic pain so I shouldbe able to live opiate free..AND I have set up an appointment with a "think-tank" of addiction counselors, I get one session to determine which doctor is best suited for my after-care..I WANT TO BE FREE I WILL DO ANYTHING!

  2. #2
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Pitbully, listen to Robert! At what dose does doc want to use? use Robert man Surfdog

    Oh the name of the game is profit/money/money Docs most of them are not in this for any altruistic reasons, they are buisness men Surfdog
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  3. #3
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    pitbully ........ Just "STAYING" on subs indefinitely is ignorant! Plain and simple! Pisses me off when drs do that!

    If you want to get clean I will help you. I have to get off this forum for a while, think I've posted close to fifty times this afternoon, but yes I will work with you gladly. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  4. #4
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    Thanks Surfdog...
    I hear ya, and I've been a labrat for FAR too long..thanks for the concern
    Quote Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
    Pitbully, listen to Robert! At what dose does doc want to use? use Robert man Surfdog

    Oh the name of the game is profit/money/money Docs most of them are not in this for any altruistic reasons, they are buisness men Surfdog

  5. #5
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
    My induction is thursday @ 1:30 central time. I wouldnt even use this doctor if I didn't have to..he IS sympathetic but I suspect ignorant to the real nature of dependency and the potency of subs.
    He is the only doctor that I have found that will let me go at my own pace, also, he will IV some valium for me @ induction, he demands only that I stay off opiates for 12 hours (although I will be abstaining for 16) before I come in and then be prepared to stay for up to 6 hours while he makes sure I am in w/d and then to fine-tune the subs for stabilization. I see NO NEED to be induced with more than 2mg (it took only 1mg to stabalize before but my habit grew to 100mg norco/day after I botched the last detox by not having a plan and then rushing because I am so deathly afraid of a sub addiction) I am sending him the link for your page on induction and I think he will look it over and humor me!
    damn shame that more doctors wont get past their own egos and TRULY educate themselves
    thanks again Robert, and indeed everyone who has wished me well
    I WILL be another success story! and Rob..can't EVER thank you enough
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    pitbully ........ Just "STAYING" on subs indefinitely is ignorant! Plain and simple! Pisses me off when drs do that!

    If you want to get clean I will help you. I have to get off this forum for a while, think I've posted close to fifty times this afternoon, but yes I will work with you gladly. God bless.

  6. #6
    Anonymous Guest

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    i have NEVER heard of using iv valium for induction and im pretty sure robert would not recommend this AT ALL. jeez your doctor does sound like a quack... you should not need any valium at all. no way.

    good on ya, get it right, and you only have to do it once....

    i LOVE my life now, no liquid handcuffs, no habit, wooo hoooo. get it right this time mate...

    p.s if you read the induction properly you will see its not to do with TIME, its to do with your score on the cows chart.. if you get it right, no worries. get it wrong and you will suffer, prec wd sucks big time... make sure you have abstained and followed the cows chart..
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-22-2012 at 09:38 PM.
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  7. #7
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbully2000 View Post
    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
    My induction is thursday @ 1:30 central time. I wouldnt even use this doctor if I didn't have to..he IS sympathetic but I suspect ignorant to the real nature of dependency and the potency of subs.
    He is the only doctor that I have found that will let me go at my own pace, also, he will IV some valium for me @ induction, he demands only that I stay off opiates for 12 hours (although I will be abstaining for 16) before I come in and then be prepared to stay for up to 6 hours while he makes sure I am in w/d and then to fine-tune the subs for stabilization. I see NO NEED to be induced with more than 2mg (it took only 1mg to stabalize before but my habit grew to 100mg norco/day after I botched the last detox by not having a plan and then rushing because I am so deathly afraid of a sub addiction) I am sending him the link for your page on induction and I think he will look it over and humor me!
    damn shame that more doctors wont get past their own egos and TRULY educate themselves
    thanks again Robert, and indeed everyone who has wished me well
    I WILL be another success story! and Rob..can't EVER thank you enough




    bull ..... Using an IV of valium for the induction is not even a part of doing a proper induction. It's totally unnecessary, makes no sense. I would simply tell the dr you don't want any. He won't force valium on you. Again, YOU DON'T NEED IT!!!

    The induction plan we use here works excellent. Have lots of drs using this protocol now. You can't pick a certain number of hours without using to determine when you do the induction. You need to score a 26 on the COWS worksheet, then you are ready whether it's 12 hours or 24 hours, doesn't matter.

    Send the dr my page on sub therapy if you like. Print the COWS worksheet for him. Tell him this is the way you want to do this. I would love it if he would just me induct you myself. But he could do it if he would just follow the process correctly. Main thing is starting when you're truly ready and with very small doses, no 4mg or 8mg or 16mg doses here. You start with .5mg doses, like the sub therapy plan stipulates, and wait two hours between doses. When he sees that he probably won't want to invest that much time on your induction and that is where sub drs fail. Perhaps when he sees that he'll allow you to induct yourself according to my protocol and then I can do it with you myself right here. Let me know how it goes. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  8. #8
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    ROBERT!
    HI..decided on doing a taper..esp after hearing what everybody has to say here..I can't believe it's WORKING! with a very minimal amount of discomfort!
    I saw a thread of yours somewhere else nd it got me thinking "what would they do for me if I was say..hit by a car and bedridden...of course I would be dependant on painkilers by then..and voila..I find the taper program and decided to give it a try..I was soo messed up I BELIEVED that the only way out was suboxone, or the rapid detox or the 30k rehab.
    It's my 42nd B-day today and I'm dowon from 120 mg norco/day to 45! and I'm feeling great
    Just wanted to share my experience and ask for any advice to help my brain heal quicker..this insomnia and more importantly the introvert that I have become is unbearable..I know I am healing but as I said..any advocce would be great.
    I did a 25% reduction of MY CURRENT DOSE 6x/day..I have a standing obligation on wedndays that I cannot miss so I reduce on wed eve..feel mildy sick on thursday..strat feeling good again fri..get my weekends to be at least halfway productive then rest my body until wed and repeat!
    EVERYBODY ELSE..THANKS>>YOU ARE RIGHT..THAT DOC just simply didnt care at all

  9. #9
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbully2000 View Post
    ROBERT!
    HI..decided on doing a taper..esp after hearing what everybody has to say here..I can't believe it's WORKING! with a very minimal amount of discomfort!
    I saw a thread of yours somewhere else nd it got me thinking "what would they do for me if I was say..hit by a car and bedridden...of course I would be dependant on painkilers by then..and voila..I find the taper program and decided to give it a try..I was soo messed up I BELIEVED that the only way out was suboxone, or the rapid detox or the 30k rehab.
    It's my 42nd B-day today and I'm dowon from 120 mg norco/day to 45! and I'm feeling great
    Just wanted to share my experience and ask for any advice to help my brain heal quicker..this insomnia and more importantly the introvert that I have become is unbearable..I know I am healing but as I said..any advocce would be great.
    I did a 25% reduction of MY CURRENT DOSE 6x/day..I have a standing obligation on wedndays that I cannot miss so I reduce on wed eve..feel mildy sick on thursday..strat feeling good again fri..get my weekends to be at least halfway productive then rest my body until wed and repeat!
    EVERYBODY ELSE..THANKS>>YOU ARE RIGHT..THAT DOC just simply didnt care at all
    My apologize for the atrocious spelling LOL...like I said..this insomnia is murder hahahhaha

  10. #10
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    Rob,
    I wanted your thoughts on this...
    I'm doing 7.5/750 6x/day and I know this is too much APAP! any suggestions on what I can do about it?
    Ive been on norco up until now so APAP was much less.
    Also, I'm having trouble figuring the math for my next jump (25% of 7.5) I have access to norco 10/325 vicodin 7.5/750 and vicodin 5/500. Need to lnow what combo would be most comfortable while hitting closest to 25% mark. Mabey this "cold water extraction" thing? I'm not really comfortable with that but I'll do anything to keep this going!
    This taper is working so well and I don't wanna fudge it up...almost painless!
    Energy level is kinda low but not knockin me out..had to postpone some studio work, but if that's the worst of it, I'm a lucky guy!
    Any help would be greatly appreciated..I aint been lerned so good in numerz an such LOL

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbully2000 View Post
    Rob,
    I wanted your thoughts on this...
    I'm doing 7.5/750 6x/day and I know this is too much APAP! any suggestions on what I can do about it?
    Ive been on norco up until now so APAP was much less.
    Also, I'm having trouble figuring the math for my next jump (25% of 7.5) I have access to norco 10/325 vicodin 7.5/750 and vicodin 5/500. Need to lnow what combo would be most comfortable while hitting closest to 25% mark. Mabey this "cold water extraction" thing? I'm not really comfortable with that but I'll do anything to keep this going!
    This taper is working so well and I don't wanna fudge it up...almost painless!
    Energy level is kinda low but not knockin me out..had to postpone some studio work, but if that's the worst of it, I'm a lucky guy!
    Any help would be greatly appreciated..I aint been lerned so good in numerz an such LOL



    The FDA says you shouldn't take over 4000mg of acetaminophen in a day. You're at 4500mg of acetaminophen, which is a little high, but you're also tapering. It's going down. I would NOT go buy any other drugs to use. Yes, norcos are better as they have less apap. Need to stay off the street scoring as that is addictive behavior and may get you busted. Would be a drag here while you're getting clean.

    If you drop off half a pill every couple days or so you'll be clean in no time. And the liver is SOOO resilient, unless you have some kind of liver disease now your liver will come right back. I am only telling you this next info to let you know you'll be okay. At my worst I was taking 30,000mg of acetaminophen daily for a long time and that didn't even count the drugs I took that didn't have apap in them. My liver counts were off the chart when I checked into rehab. Today my liver is perfect and I drank scotch like a fish for three decades too. I was pretty sad!

    Just keep tapering, do the next right thing, and this will all work itself out. You are not so badly over the FDA amount suggested for apap to freak out about it especially while you're tapering and bringing it down. Hang in there. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  12. #12
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbully2000 View Post
    Rob,
    I wanted your thoughts on this...
    I'm doing 7.5/750 6x/day and I know this is too much APAP! any suggestions on what I can do about it?
    Ive been on norco up until now so APAP was much less.
    Also, I'm having trouble figuring the math for my next jump (25% of 7.5) I have access to norco 10/325 vicodin 7.5/750 and vicodin 5/500. Need to lnow what combo would be most comfortable while hitting closest to 25% mark. Mabey this "cold water extraction" thing? I'm not really comfortable with that but I'll do anything to keep this going!
    This taper is working so well and I don't wanna fudge it up...almost painless!
    Energy level is kinda low but not knockin me out..had to postpone some studio work, but if that's the worst of it, I'm a lucky guy!
    Any help would be greatly appreciated..I aint been lerned so good in numerz an such LOL



    The FDA says you shouldn't take over 4000mg of acetaminophen in a day. You're at 4500mg of acetaminophen, which is a little high, but you're also tapering. It's going down. I would NOT go buy any other drugs to use. Yes, norcos are better as they have less apap. Need to stay off the street scoring as that is addictive behavior and may get you busted. Would be a drag here while you're getting clean.

    If you drop off half a pill every couple days or so you'll be clean in no time. And the liver is SOOO resilient, unless you have some kind of liver disease now your liver will come right back. I am only telling you this next info to let you know you'll be okay. At my worst I was taking 30,000mg of acetaminophen daily for a long time and that didn't even count the drugs I took that didn't have apap in them. My liver counts were off the chart when I checked into rehab. Today my liver is perfect and I drank scotch like a fish for three decades too. I was pretty sad!

    Just keep tapering, do the next right thing, and this will all work itself out. You are not so badly over the FDA amount suggested for apap to freak out about it especially while you're tapering and bringing it down. Hang in there. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Sorry for the double post. Don't have any idea how I did that.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  14. #14
    pitbully2000 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Sorry for the double post. Don't have any idea how I did that.
    Man, sometimes I can't even spell my NAME right so never mind the double post LOL
    Thanks for the info buddy! You really ARE like having a PROPER doctor right here in my home
    Thanks for all the help..you do it every day with people a lot worse off than me but I just wanted you to know how much it means to have somebody in my corner (Dr.s can't ALL be like the ones I've experienced, can they?)
    I am continuing the taper, and I will update periodicaly (did I spell THAT right? LOL)
    thanks buddy..and everyone else listening..it CAN be done..no doubt about it!
    Be good everyone and have a GREAT week!
    ~Pitbully

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