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Possible to get off 480 mg ER morphine/day in 2 months?
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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Default Possible to get off 480 mg ER morphine/day in 2 months?

    Hello there. I think I posted this in the wrong place at Need to Talk so I am putting it here. I have been on Avinza 240 mg BID for quite some time now after changing from MS Contin first 200 MG 3 x's a day then down to 160 mg 3 x's a day until changing to the Avinza, same dose total but only twice a day instead of TID. Been on this like 10 years now total-about 1 of those on this Avinza after MS Contin not really being effective. I was reading some of Robert's posts on getting people off narcotics with sub. I don't have anything like that but wonder if anyone has an idea how fast I can W/D off this Avinza,. My doctor was recently asked to leave his practice because he did a lot of pain management and the other doctors did not. So I only have enough for 2 more months and I need to try and get off this in that amount of time. Is there a good taper schedule anyone knows of for that amount of Morphine or is it just basically play it by feelings? I was just discussing with him in December about working at getting off it and he was saying no faster than 30 mg decrease per month when I found he was leaving. He was supposed to let me know if he got a new practice some where and was to be paid through March 13 but I really don't know if I will hear from him again, I have my doubts. I have been in the nursing profession for 40 years, had back surgery in 97 and was in a head on car wreck in 2004 with many injuries caused by that. Lots of chronic pain. I have Raynauds and Sjorgens as well as suffer from chronic fatigue a lot! Never diagnosed with but feel like I have symptoms similar to fibromyalgia which I know many don't believe in. Anyway, don't really know who else to ask so thought I would look into talking to people here. I would love to be off this medication for good! I really have been a drug addict off and on for many years since my teenage years though and often use drugs for depression and anxiety. Recently lost my 3 1/2 week old granddaughter to SIDS, not doing well trying to get over it.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by micronurse View Post
    Hello there. I think I posted this in the wrong place at Need to Talk so I am putting it here. I have been on Avinza 240 mg BID for quite some time now after changing from MS Contin first 200 MG 3 x's a day then down to 160 mg 3 x's a day until changing to the Avinza, same dose total but only twice a day instead of TID. Been on this like 10 years now total-about 1 of those on this Avinza after MS Contin not really being effective. I was reading some of Robert's posts on getting people off narcotics with sub. I don't have anything like that but wonder if anyone has an idea how fast I can W/D off this Avinza,. My doctor was recently asked to leave his practice because he did a lot of pain management and the other doctors did not. So I only have enough for 2 more months and I need to try and get off this in that amount of time. Is there a good taper schedule anyone knows of for that amount of Morphine or is it just basically play it by feelings? I was just discussing with him in December about working at getting off it and he was saying no faster than 30 mg decrease per month when I found he was leaving. He was supposed to let me know if he got a new practice some where and was to be paid through March 13 but I really don't know if I will hear from him again, I have my doubts. I have been in the nursing profession for 40 years, had back surgery in 97 and was in a head on car wreck in 2004 with many injuries caused by that. Lots of chronic pain. I have Raynauds and Sjorgens as well as suffer from chronic fatigue a lot! Never diagnosed with but feel like I have symptoms similar to fibromyalgia which I know many don't believe in. Anyway, don't really know who else to ask so thought I would look into talking to people here. I would love to be off this medication for good! I really have been a drug addict off and on for many years since my teenage years though and often use drugs for depression and anxiety. Recently lost my 3 1/2 week old granddaughter to SIDS, not doing well trying to get over it.



    I also have Raynaud's and three other autoimmune disorders. I know what you go through with chronic fatigue, anxiety, sleep problems, etc. I have RA, Raynauds, Fibro and APS.

    I could do this in sixty days or thereabouts lots easier if you would go the sub route. We could try the Thomas Recipe but it will be rougher on you physically considering your history. How much discomfort and w/d are you willing to go through over the next couple weeks? God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Hello Robert. I was reading your posts mainly to people about sub induction and doctors using too much. Not all know what they are doing indeed, as I have seen in my 40 years in nursing. I am happy to see you reply. You seem knowledgeable and compassionate. I was hoping you might respond. I work full time as a NICU nurse in a large busy 90 bed unit that was becoming so difficult physically with 3 12 hour shifts a week that I was absolutely miserable and wiped out all the time, especially after working each 12 hour shift. I used to work 3 days in a row, made good money, but quit that to spread out my days as I was in so much pain on top of the Avinza! It was still too hard to do so I got a part time job teaching jr. BSN students 20 hours a week and do the the NICU for 3 12 hr shifts every 2 weeks. So I really cannot afford to be sick and miserable with work and these students depending on me. My husband teaches online but was injured much worse than me in the car wreck and not able to do work like he used to. I am the main breadwinner. I am at the point now though to almost not care if I quit work and live in a box somewhere though if I get off these meds and find the pain is too bad to keep my job up. I think it may be the years on the Morphine though that is making me feel so bad and causing hypealgesia. I usually get low on my meds a week before I can refill and cut back to three a day but hate that creepy crawly feeling and no sleep that I go through, and I am sure that is just a small amount of full W/D's. I did have some 15 mg oxycodone #120 but used them up in a couple of weeks like a good addict :=) I do not know of any doctors that use sub but do have pretty good insurance so may be able to find someone if I tried to call around.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by micronurse View Post
    Hello Robert. I was reading your posts mainly to people about sub induction and doctors using too much. Not all know what they are doing indeed, as I have seen in my 40 years in nursing. I am happy to see you reply. You seem knowledgeable and compassionate. I was hoping you might respond. I work full time as a NICU nurse in a large busy 90 bed unit that was becoming so difficult physically with 3 12 hour shifts a week that I was absolutely miserable and wiped out all the time, especially after working each 12 hour shift. I used to work 3 days in a row, made good money, but quit that to spread out my days as I was in so much pain on top of the Avinza! It was still too hard to do so I got a part time job teaching jr. BSN students 20 hours a week and do the the NICU for 3 12 hr shifts every 2 weeks. So I really cannot afford to be sick and miserable with work and these students depending on me. My husband teaches online but was injured much worse than me in the car wreck and not able to do work like he used to. I am the main breadwinner. I am at the point now though to almost not care if I quit work and live in a box somewhere though if I get off these meds and find the pain is too bad to keep my job up. I think it may be the years on the Morphine though that is making me feel so bad and causing hypealgesia. I usually get low on my meds a week before I can refill and cut back to three a day but hate that creepy crawly feeling and no sleep that I go through, and I am sure that is just a small amount of full W/D's. I did have some 15 mg oxycodone #120 but used them up in a couple of weeks like a good addict :=) I do not know of any doctors that use sub but do have pretty good insurance so may be able to find someone if I tried to call around.



    You know how dependency is painful in itself. You are totally functioning while dependent. Being a medical professional you know that eventually the pain meds place us in more pain as we go into w/d every four hours or so if we don't dose. I was a true chronic pain patient and don't even take ibuprofen any longer. I was on almost 1000mg daily of 30mg Roxicodone IR by prescription from a legitimate pain dr, not a script dr. It's taken time, but I live with my problems as I don't make pain meds of any kind an option anymore unless it's for a surgery or something severe and acute. And I've got almost ten years clean after using STUPID amounts of opiates for 35 years. I detest opiates today, thank God.

    Getting subs is easy. I'm sure in your position you can locate a reputable dr certified to prescribe subs. I can help you if necessary. But it would honestly be a painful detox or a very rapid taper coming off the extended release meds you're taking in sixty days. It's much more feasible with the subs. That is really my best advice. I do wish that you would allow me to personally induct you myself as I will have you on a smaller yet more effective dose than any dr you know. I have drs all over the country that follow my protocol. It works, it's proven on this forum. I have done this SOOO many times. Let me know if I can help you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Hello Robert. I appreciate your reply. I have another internal medicine doctor I started to see for my regular female yearly care and was planning on making her my regular doctor after I was off this Avinza. I was going to see next week and ask her about helping me try to get off these. I don't think she prescribes any kind of narcotics though but could ask her about the sub. I have also been to OU Pain Medicine at OU Medical Center in Oklahoma City but they only do injections, of which I have had several done but don't want any more of that right now but they don't give narcotic meds. I don't know if my doctor there uses suboxone on anyone or not. Guess that is more addiction specialists. Don't reallly want to be too uncomfortable but I can at times cut back to three a day for awhile, or even 2 and have made it without too severe WD feelings but that has usually been only over a few days. Have spinal stenosis and they want to do a fusion but cannot face that after reading too many stories about failed back syndrome so that is another reason I am somewhat fearful of what kind of pain I will have without pain meds. Afraid I will not be able to stand it is something else that scares me so much but reading your hx sound somewhat like mine. Have had many surgeries, three car accidents and 40 years of nursing wearing my body away. So tired of feeling bad though and depressed. No energy for anything. Got to be the pain meds I hope. Getting worked up by rheumatologist due to RF double what it should be. Maybe some of the fatigue is from that. I don't know. Tried multilple antidepressants but always had bad side effects. Have seizures with tricyclics antidepressants. Have a terry high medication tolerance, have had it all my life. Supposedly have ADHD but as my husband says, I am just lazy. There is no such thing. Oh well, many things in my life lead to the trouble with the pain meds and not just the pain, I know. I am sure others can all relate.

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Off to work. Thinking of all of you on here dealing with your own private miseries. I know God will take me through this as I believe He has been with me through all my trials since I came to know Him at age 22 on May 3rd, 1977. He knows my heart and that I am ready to get off of these. I just have forgotten what it is like to feel normal and happy and I do miss that. My husband misses that too. I look forward to sharing on here about getting off all this over the next couple of months, however it works out. Nice to know there is somewhere to talk to those who understand what it is like, perhaps even to be a nurse and have this problem or whatever kind of professional life you may lead on the outside of this RX drug hell hiding on the inside. Bye for now. micronurse

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    I have been taking three 120's of ER morphine a day instead of 4 for the past 4 days and so far seem to not feel to bad. I wonder how many days when you decrease on something that is supposed to last 24 hours will it be before you start feeling bad from it? Guess it depends on each person. I am going to try and keep it at three for several days until I feel I can try 2 a day then see how that feels. I see this other doctor Thursday and as I told you Robert, I have no idea how she feels about anything like subs. I read there are 2 different kinds? Suboxone comes after being inducted with Subutrex, I read somewhere. Don't know what to ask my doctor for if I wanted to try subs? Can you just do Suboxone without the Subutrex first? Guess should wait until I see her and see what she even thinks about whether to hep me or not. Hope you are feeling OK Robert with all you have wrong too! Lots of painful things to deal with.

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    linked is offline New Member
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    buddy u can do anything u put your mind to it will be hell im recovering from opiate addiction its when your opiate receptors run dry u will hurt and crave and hurt and and crave then relapse thats what i call the viscous cycle u need to get some suboxone join a support group or if your strong enough go through the hell of withdrawls and p.w.s good luck on the cravings

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    Elyse123 is offline Member
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    Micronurse,

    Im sure you can find another PM doctor to prescribe you the subutex. I know you can do this , I have RA, Reynauds, and they think , lupus as well....i was in a very bad car wreck that compressed the discs in my neck causing encroachment on my spinal cord and I went for surgery and on the surgery table, i stopped breathing before they started the operation on my neck, i decided to forget the surgery, i took it as a sign. So, i hear you on that, what I've realized since coming off of oxycontin is that i was in more pain on the pain meds! You will be fine without your pain meds, you will! Im not saying you're going to be cartwheeling around town but with Roberts tapper plan you will be okay and in time you'll probably feel way better than before the opiates, im really rooting for you! You're in my prayers.

    Elyse

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    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by micronurse View Post
    I have been taking three 120's of ER morphine a day instead of 4 for the past 4 days and so far seem to not feel to bad. I wonder how many days when you decrease on something that is supposed to last 24 hours will it be before you start feeling bad from it? Guess it depends on each person. I am going to try and keep it at three for several days until I feel I can try 2 a day then see how that feels. I see this other doctor Thursday and as I told you Robert, I have no idea how she feels about anything like subs. I read there are 2 different kinds? Suboxone comes after being inducted with Subutrex, I read somewhere. Don't know what to ask my doctor for if I wanted to try subs? Can you just do Suboxone without the Subutrex first? Guess should wait until I see her and see what she even thinks about whether to hep me or not. Hope you are feeling OK Robert with all you have wrong too! Lots of painful things to deal with.
    Hi Micronurse.. I found your thread

    I'm sure that the morphine has a lot to do with the fatigue and depression because the first day I took 15mg.'s I felt the same way and after a week it did not get better. My doctor told me my body would get used to it and the side effects would get better but I insisted on trying something else. I just wanted to tell you that if you google suboxone doctors and your city you will get a list of doctors and their addresses close to you and can choose one that way. That's what I did. You do not need to be referred.

    Suboxone and Subutex are basically the same drug (you don't start on one and go to the other) but Suboxone has another ingredient called Mala-something ... not sure what that is... I think it is to prevent IV users from shooting it. And Subutex does not have that. 15% of people are allergic to that ingredient so if you can get Subutex it might be better. I was not given a choice and I did fine on suboxone. I would not dream of coming off the amount of morphine you have taken and for as LONG as you have taken it without suboxone. But of course the further you taper down from the morphine before the suboxone the better.

    Many people think that Suboxone is a miracle drug when they first take it and have been an opiate addict living in fear of running out and withdrawals and then going to the doctor in withdrawals (because that's what you have to do.. you have to be in withdrawals the first time you take it) and they put a half a pill under their tongue and in a short time feel normal again... they think it's a magic pill because it does not get you high and you can fool yourself into thinking it is not a strong opiate. That is a big problem in the world now combined with the fact that most doctors don't know what they are doing with it because they took a one day class to qualify to prescribe it. The best way to use it is Roberts way. Start on as small of a dose as needed and follow his proven method to be off in an easy and relatively painless way. Good luck to you honey and I will be looking for your posts.. Suzie

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    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    and micronurse, I am so so sorry to hear about your granddaughter!! I have a granddaughter too and I know dealing with a tragedy like this would be the hardest thing in the world. My heart is aching for you and your family. You are very wise to be taking control of your life like this and it will be very enpowering for you.

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Smile Thanks SuzieOf

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieOf View Post
    and micronurse, I am so so sorry to hear about your granddaughter!! I have a granddaughter too and I know dealing with a tragedy like this would be the hardest thing in the world. My heart is aching for you and your family. You are very wise to be taking control of your life like this and it will be very enpowering for you.
    Thanks for the reply! I am looking forward to getting off the morphine. I really do think it is doing more harm than good now but I have been afraid to stop thinking I will have all kinds of horrible pain. Silly to think that but drugs dull your mind and senses after awhile. I miss my GD so much. We were watching StarWars last night and seeing Darth Vader's body on fire at the end just reminded me of her cold body all stapled back together after the autopsy and that she was cremated just filled my mind and I started sobbing. My poor husband is so supportive but he says it has been 10 months and thinks I should be over it more but it is hard. And being a NICU nurse for 15 years now I have been with many families as they said goodbye to their babies. Maybe it all is letting out from all the empathy you do with families until you lose one of your own so close. I also grieve for my daughter and son-in-law. They were grief stricken and still don't have their other 3 boys back from DHS. My life will be back on track when they are back home and I am clean. Those are my prayer requests for anyone on here who believes in God and any others can do any positive or good thoughts. I'll take it ll. Thanks so much for looking for my post and reading up on what I was talking about. It is nice to have somewhere like this to talk about your drug problems and not feel judged.

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Smile Thanks Elyse

    Quote Originally Posted by Elyse123 View Post
    Micronurse,

    Im sure you can find another PM doctor to prescribe you the subutex. I know you can do this , I have RA, Reynauds, and they think , lupus as well....i was in a very bad car wreck that compressed the discs in my neck causing encroachment on my spinal cord and I went for surgery and on the surgery table, i stopped breathing before they started the operation on my neck, i decided to forget the surgery, i took it as a sign. So, i hear you on that, what I've realized since coming off of oxycontin is that i was in more pain on the pain meds! You will be fine without your pain meds, you will! Im not saying you're going to be cartwheeling around town but with Roberts tapper plan you will be okay and in time you'll probably feel way better than before the opiates, im really rooting for you! You're in my prayers.

    Elyse
    I had my initial appt with this new doctor I hope can help me get off. I just did tons of paperwork yesterday only but will see him in 2 weeks. Hope my last RX gets filled OK from my old doctor or I would be straight off with nothing for a week. You know how you worry about running out of your meds but this is the worst I have been in 10 years to have my doctor leave the practice. The lady helping me with the paperwork told me that 2 or 3 other doctors who did pain management just up and disappeared with no follow up or plan for their patients at all and this doctor has been swamped with calls from people freaking out, she said. Yes I totally understand and am so ready to be done with this kind of worries. I did see people in the office much worse off than me so I was thankful for my injuries compared to what I saw. However I now have a new pain after locking myself out of my car at work Saturday night and stupidly climbing over the front console into the back seat to try and unlock the trunk release when a locksmith guy got there. Why I did not let him climb over I do not know. Some fat almost 60 year old lady should not have tried that. My whole outer left thigh is numb, has radicular pain like before my back surgery. It was L4-5 that herniated in the past and the pain was like this but much worse. I pray I have just strained it and not did something worse but I don't know. I don't like this pain along with numbness. It is new since I did that. Of all times. Hope it is just strained or swollen and will get better. Still want off this as it also dulls pain and probably allows you to get hurt more than if you weren't on meds. Well anyway I so appreciate your prayers and you give me hope it can be done. Thnaks so much!

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up Thank you

    [QUOTE=linked;354437]buddy u can do anything u put your mind to it will be hell im recovering from opiate addiction its when your opiate receptors run dry u will hurt and crave and hurt and and crave then relapse thats what i call the viscous cycle u need to get some suboxone join a support group or if your strong enough go through the hell of withdrawls and p.w.s good luck on the cravings[/QUOTE

    thanks for the advice linked. I hope I can do it. I have been on it a long time. I appreciate your post. It is a vicious cycle isn't it?

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    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    Micronurse - I sure hope you can get your refill too but I don't see any reason why you couldn't since it's a legit script. Are you going to talk to your doctor about Suboxone? It is a painless way to get off morphine and then if you taper off the sub you can totally bypass any withdrawal pain and be free. There's a good chance your new doctor won't be able to prescribe it though. Only those who have gone out of their way to take the class can.

    10 months is not a long time at all to be grieving... it took me two years when I lost my best friend and now I realize that you never really get over a death but you just get used to living without them. Keep me posted. You are in my thoughts and prayers

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    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    Micronurse, it's been a long time since you posted and I want you to know I am thinking and praying for you still. Hope all is well and you are just too busy to post xoxox

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    micronurse is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieOf View Post
    Micronurse, it's been a long time since you posted and I want you to know I am thinking and praying for you still. Hope all is well and you are just too busy to post xoxox
    Hello SuzieOf, I appreciate that you were thinking of me! And yes I have just been too busy. I saw the new doctor on the 17th and he was really pretty nice although I did not spend a lot of time with him but I guess I have been documented well enough that he did not question me and said he wanted to change me to Kadian 100 three times a day instead of the Avinza at that 480 MG dose twice a day which he gave me a rx for. He also gave me a rx for more Oxycodone but increased that from 15 to 30 mg and said to use that for breakthrough and he thought I would be OK as far as no withdrawals go. He said to just lock up what I had left from my other doctor and switch to this. He said I was doing too much for what is wrong with my back, that I was just having increasing pain and that is why the meds were not working, I was doing too mucvh. Wow, on the exam he found every sore and painful place I had. he pushed on all the places I hurt the worst. I said you have hit all the worst spots only each time. He said, "That is because I know what is wrong with you". He says he will see me in three weeks and go from there. Although they only gave me enough meds for three weeks but I could not get an appointment until 11 days past the meds he gave me so I sent them a fax Friday asking what he wanted me to do about that. I could use up some of my Avinza I still have but didn't want to do that without asking him in case he didn't want me mixing them or being on that anymore. He said I should not even be carrying the two bags I had with me that had my ipad, my meds and my purse. He said I needed to be thinking about quitting the NICU as it is too stressful and strenuous for me. I don't want to hear that but I know he is right. I am 578 years old and ahve been a nurse for 40 years now. Not an easy profession on the body. However we depend on my salary and barely get by as it is. So I push myself and have terrible muscle spasms in my low back and pain down both legs and lots of low back pain by the time I walk for 12 hours. I pray for a way to find something different. I found a job opening and interviewed last Monday for a nursing informatics analyst position in my hospital and that would be such an awesome job to get as I got my master's in nursing about a year and a half ago with an emphasis in informatics but have not been able to find a job in that field that did not want experience. So that has been frustrating but who knows when a door might open. I also teach clinicals for junior BSN nursing students of the university in a collaborative program between the teaching hospital I work in the NICU at and the college of nursing where they said there might be a full time job there some time teaching but it is $20,000 a year pay cut! No way can we get by with that. That is what this doctor said I needed to be doing, like the teaching. I just don't know what to do. I am going to try and continue with him and wean down to see what happens. Please pray that God would open a door for getting out of the NICU. I have been there 15 years and love the babies but hate the stress of a 90 bed unit with over 250 nurses and the supervisors have all their buddies they give the easy assignments to while I always get these terribly busy assignments that keep me running all day while 5-6 nurses find the time to stand around out at the desk half the day talking. That does not help my stress to see that. It is like I am old and worn out to them and they would just as soon have me quit. Lateral violence and bullying goes on there for sure! This week coming up is my last week of clinicals and I go back to 3 12 hour days a week in the NICU where I had only been doing 3 12 hour shifts every 2 weeks when school was in session as I had 10 hours a week in clincal and 10 hours at home grading care plans. Has been so much fun but also lots of work as well! Getting that position last September was an answer to prayer but it is even worse in the NICU than before as I am seen like a traitor as I tie up a full time position but am only in the unit half time during school sessions. And they have to record my hours with the students in their books. It is not a happy deal for my director and manager even though it is a program my hospital came up with. I am dreading it for sure being back full time for the summer. Long time until the end of September when clincials start again unless I got that other job. Well thanks for asking and sorry to write a book but I just felt like talking here to you where I know you understand. God bless and good night!

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    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    I'm so happy to have heard from you and your new doctor sounds like he knows what he is doing. I thought you had mentioned something about your job ending in June? I guess I misunderstood. There are some things you can't do anything about but not carrying heavy bags is a step in the right direction. Maybe hot baths would help you too? Ugh! how well I remember the behind the scenes politics that goes on in every job... believe me, it is there in every job. As for me, I'm continuing in my taper and am close to the end but today is painful and my head is fuzzy so have to keep it short. So glad the new meds are working and will continue to pray for you

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