Just got off of oxycontin and now on subutex and scared.

[Elyse123]

Hello all,

I'm new here , I'm a married woman, mother to an amazing little girl and after a car accident I had and a diagnoses of severe RA , I was put on oxycontin. I also take klonopin for 13 years, never abused it EVER! It's for severe panic attacks and I got my life back with them, I also take lexapro for depression. So back to the oxycontin, it's been 5 months since they prescribed them to me and I was up to about 110 mg daily, I decided I didnt want to be on them anymore! They did give me energy and helped tremendously with my pain issues, however, I realized I became dependent on them, and felt high off of them, I have to admit that. I called my therapist and told him I cannot do this anymore and want off these horrible, nightmarish pills.....he just started me on the subutex yesterday , I had to be off of the oxy for 24 hours, I flushed them down the toilet and started my cold turkey withdrawl process, let's just say.....it was hell! I was restless , goosebumps, hot and cold, my bones hurt and I had involuntary jerky movement of my limbs with this creepy , wanting to jump out of my skin feeling , I didnt sleep at all !!! Finally my husband took me into the office and the doc started the induction to the subutex , I scored 36 on the COW scale which meant I was in severe withdrawl , so he gave me an 8mg subutex, I felt 65 percent better then he wanted to give me another subutex 8mg pill , I said no! Just give me half, so altogether I took 12mgs of the sub. Today is my second day on subutex and I feel better , I do have pain but I took a half of an 8mg today and feel that is enough for now, the doc said I can take them every 8 hours. My question is , is it okay to take half and not the whole pill , if I feel decent? I want to follow my docs advise but don't want to take more if not needed. I had a hard time sleeping , is this normal? Should I take the subutex earlier in the evening before bed(my second and last dose of the day) I feel more alert, obviously without the oxy's but I also feel scared of the subutex I hope it's a safe drug. Also, I want to be off of it in a month in a half since I'm moving out of state to be with my family, can this be done with minimal discomfort? Also, I want to share that I'm so ashamed of having taken oxyco tin for 5months , I was not emotionally available to my husband and daughter, on the oxy, all I did was talk on the phone and smoke A LOT of cigarettes, I lost my way.....this may sound weird but my very soul felt the distance this drug put between my family and I, and to be honest, I would take extra on certain days just for the high...I'm so ashamed of myself and feel like I took five months from my family and caused them pain, I cry as I write this , I just want to be off of the subutex and get on with my life but I'm so scared to feel that horrific skin crawling of the w/d's again , I pray I can get off the subutex and not have that hellish feeling again.......thank you all for listening and I'm sorry this post was so long but I just needed to get it out, good luck to all of you and I hope someone out there can help with my questions that have been in the same boat....much love, Elyse.

[Robert_325]

I've done this for years and there is no way you need to be on subs after five months of a little over 100mg of oxycontin. I could give you some supplements and instructions and you would be clean in a week to ten days. There is still time if you want to go a different route. I'm not a dr but I used opiates 35 years, been clean for almost ten years and I do this every day. Look around the forum and see my posts. I am not anti-subs, don't misunderstand. But there is a proper protocol to follow getting clean. If you don't watch it you'll have a worse problem on the amount of subs he is telling you to take vs the oxy. Let me know if I can help. God bless.

[Elyse123]

I could really use your help, BAD! I do however have this extreme fear of the coming off of the subutex cold turkey since my 24 cold turkey from the oxy's was a living hell and I have to function for my daughter, any advice you have will be much appreciated, please tell me what to do, I'll take the advice of a long tern opiate user any day , since I know, you've been there, please help me, so I can put this behind me, please. I so appreciate your response and help , I hope I hear from you with tapper method, and will I be able to sleep? , that is something I have the worst problem with and the restlessness, I know I will feel some discomfort but I hope it's do-able, I'll do anything to get this monkey off my back. Thanks Robert , please reply at your earliest convenience ! Again , thank you a million, God bless.

-Elyse

[Elyse123]

Robert,

Here are my facts I'm on the generic subutex, and the Dr. Started me at 8mg first pill then 5 min later 4mg. Then later on that night he told me to take another pill when I got home he said take a whole one, but I didn't I took half 4mg , so all together on day one I took 16mgs. I dont think he did the induction properly , whichbbrings me to today, I took one half of the 8mg, so today only took 4mg i don't know if I should take the other half later ( it says every eight hours) , so how much should I take later, another half, I just need to stabilize and don't know how, please advise me on this as the next dose is approaching. Also, I feel anxious and couldn't sleep last night very well not to mention the day before yesterday was the "cold turkey" day and I didn't sleep at all, I'm so tired. I can't wait until you respond, thanks again! I feel terrible.

[Robert_325]

Elyse ..... I failed to notice the part about the klonopin for thirteen years and the lexapro. How much do you take daily of each medication? I don't want to put you into a perpetual panic attack or you will relapse on the oxy. You obviously have a lot of anxiety. But what your dr is doing is absolutely the WRONG advice.

Based on your klonopin and lexapro use we need to keep you on an even mental and physical plane, especially with the RA too. I also have RA and three other autoimmune disorders so I know what you go through there. I moderated an autoimmune disease website for years before coming to drugs.com.

Let's assume you stay on the klonopin and the lexapro for now at least, you should have been inducted after you reached a score of 26 on what is called the COWS (clinical opioid w/d scale). That is moderately severe w/d, basically you should have been sick as a dog before being inducted. Then I would have given you a dose of .5mg and have you wait up to two hours. Subs are very strong medication and just a very little dose will work if given ample time to work to its full effect. After that we would continue with .5mg doses on the hour until you were stable. I guarantee that I could have had you feeling great on around 2mg total. He just had you slam an 8mg pill and told you to take another 8mg every eight hours. That is pure ignorance! Pisses me off that a dr is so stupid and uninformed how to do this.

Thankfully we got to you on only the second day. I will tell you what my best advice is, though you may not like it. I say that you stop and don't take anything the rest of today. Then tomorrow let's see how you feel about noon and we will re-induct you properly right here on the forum in the afternoon. Starting you out as I've described I can have you totally clean off the opiates and the subs in six weeks or so. Doing it his way you'll end up addicted to the subs and be in a worse mess than you were to start with.

I am going to give you a link to read. I wrote this years ago after I used subs myself. I've been using this process to work with others here for years. There are lots of people on the forum right now that used this process also and have significant clean time after MUCH worse opiate dependencies than what you have had. Again, if it wasn't for your other conditions I wouldn't even have you take subs at all. But at least let's keep them to a minimum. And once we get you stable and feeling well, I can give you some other things to take that will help with your lack of energy and what not that is caused from the RA. Chronic fatigue is a very common symptom of RA. I deal with it daily.

Read the following link, pay close attention to the INDUCTION section. Then post back to me right here and tell me what you think. This is the best advice I can give you. I promise that I know how to do this and I AM RIGHT!!! I'll watch for your reply. And let's just do all this right here so others that come along after you can see what we've done. That is why we have this forum. I could not keep up with everyone's history doing all this through emails. Post back to me after you read the link. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[Elyse123]

Robert,

So sorry to be a pest, I'm sure you're very busy helping other's as well. My question is , should I just do a fast tapper that you can recommend from the generic subutex , is that a better option since I'm terrified of cold turkey , please let me know which at my email above. Thank you so much, sorry to be a pest but I'm suffering. Talk to you soon, hopefully.

Elyse

[Elyse123]

Okay so dismiss my prior post, since I didn't see that you responded....so let me get this straight, we should start the induction tomorrow, I should skip tonight's dose and start fresh tomorrow, do you think I'll be in full subutex withdrawl by the morning? I just dont want that cold turkey horror feeling And I should take 0.5mg to start then another 0.5mg 90 minutes after? Then continue every 90minutes by 0.25mg until I reach my comfort level? Then reduce by 25percent every 4days? I will print that sheet so I can follow. So this tapper method keeps people semi-comfortable,? I am willing to do anything to stay clean , please let me know if I follow correctly, also I take 10mgs of lexapro in the am as well as 1mg of klonopin in the am and in the pm 1.5 mg of klonopin. I am worried about sleep deprevation as I get really emotional and wacky when I don't sleep and cannot function whatcha think? Will you stand by me on this site when I start, I know we don't know each other, but your willingness to help me is beyond words , from the bottom of my heart, thank you! Also how do I break an 8mg pill to get to 0.5mg???? Thank you.

[Elyse123]

sorry, and my score was 26..

[Robert_325]

Okay so dismiss my prior post, since I didn't see that you responded....so let me get this straight, we should start the induction tomorrow, I should skip tonight's dose and start fresh tomorrow, do you think I'll be in full subutex withdrawl by the morning? I just dont want that cold turkey horror feeling And I should take 0.5mg to start then another 0.5mg 90 minutes after? Then continue every 90minutes by 0.25mg until I reach my comfort level? Then reduce by 25percent every 4days? I will print that sheet so I can follow. So this tapper method keeps people semi-comfortable,? I am willing to do anything to stay clean , please let me know if I follow correctly, also I take 10mgs of lexapro in the am as well as 1mg of klonopin in the am and in the pm 1.5 mg of klonopin. I am worried about sleep deprevation as I get really emotional and wacky when I don't sleep and cannot function whatcha think? Will you stand by me on this site when I start, I know we don't know each other, but your willingness to help me is beyond words , from the bottom of my heart, thank you! Also how do I break an 8mg pill to get to 0.5mg???? Thank you.

I don't want you to take anything until we do this together. I will walk you through this tomorrow afternoon. We will spend the afternoon together doing this process if we have to. I'm committed to seeing you get off on the right foot.

I'll check on you tomorrow a little before lunch to see how you're doing. I won't put you into precipitated w/d I promise. I've never done it once in all the inductions I've done. Remember that you have already been inducted once. We are using the same drug to re-induct with. I just want you to stay off anything tonight until tomorrow afternoon so we can get you stable on a small dose. I'm asking you to be naive enough to trust me on this. I know what I'm doing I assure you.

Getting the pill broken down to .5mg is not that hard. Get a single-edged razor and quarter it into four 2mg pieces. Just slice on it gently so it doesn't all turn to powder. Grind up one of the 2mg pieces into powder and divide it into four .5mg piles. Eyeballing it is fine. Then you just crease a card and pour the .5mg dose under your tongue. It's a lot more simple than it sounds. Once you've done it you'll see it's not that big of a deal. And I will be right there with you if you have a problem.

RELAX!!! You are going to be SHOCKED at how small of a dose you end up stable on when we are done. Then you'll be sold I promise. And you have my word that I will stick by you until you are clean. Remember one thing too, that is that no one ever died from sleep deprivation. I still have sleep problems with my RA, so I understand your anxiety. You can trust me to follow through with what I'm promising you. God bless.

[Elyse123]

Thank you so much Robert, you are an angel seriously, im glad I found you so soon after ny induction yesterday lol talk about luck, I'll probably feel like you know what tonight but I'll do it. As for the induction , you want me to wait for you to sign in and do it with you, not start in the morning , right ? If I have to wait I'll wait, I guess for you to log in, I shouldn't feel a full blast wirhdrawl since I have 4mgs in me from earlier right? I'm sorry im such a worry wort but man, I've been through it:/ my dad is an IV heroin user his whole life so I never want to end up in the dark road he chose to live in and is still suffering from:/ thank you for answering my questions and just being there

[Robert_325]

Thank you so much Robert, you are an angel seriously, im glad I found you so soon after ny induction yesterday lol talk about luck, I'll probably feel like you know what tonight but I'll do it. As for the induction , you want me to wait for you to sign in and do it with you, not start in the morning , right ? If I have to wait I'll wait, I guess for you to log in, I shouldn't feel a full blast wirhdrawl since I have 4mgs in me from earlier right? I'm sorry im such a worry wort but man, I've been through it:/ my dad is an IV heroin user his whole life so I never want to end up in the dark road he chose to live in and is still suffering from:/ thank you for answering my questions and just being there

You won't regret trusting me. I will not let you down. Just please wait for me tomorrow. We are going to get you on a tiny dose. I did this same exact thing with a guy here named Henry. He's been clean like three years now off subs.

He showed up here just like you on day two. His dr had him on 32mg!!! I got him to stop for me and let me re-induct him. Would you believe that we inducted him at 1.25mg TOTAL!!! That was after his goofy dr said to take 32mg. He would be a stumbling addict today had he followed through doing that. He was clean in six weeks and has never gone back. He works with me now doing this same thing I do. We have become the very best of friends, I should say family. Family is what the people are here that have been around for years.

There have been times when one or more of us have gotten pissed off at someone over something stupid as we are all recovering addicts with volatile emotions. But I promise you that the old-timers around here would do anything for the others. You have joined a family here, not just a forum. Welcome!!! Talk with you tomorrow. God bless.

[Elyse123]

Robert , I feel like I have hope now , after my doctor told me it would take a year I nearly cried . I'm so grateful to you, I will see you on here tomorrow , God willing and I cant wait to be completely opiate free have a wonderful night, you are a really good person to help so many people, so glad I made it here today ....until tomorrow my friend...

-Elyse

[Elyse123]

Robert I'm here ready for my induction , starting to feel a little uncomfortable, so let's do this I'm so excited where are you??

[Robert_325]

Robert I'm here ready for my induction , starting to feel a little uncomfortable, so let's do this I'm so excited where are you??

Can you tell me how you score on the COWS worksheet please! That will help me know to do this properly.

[Elyse123]

Okay where can I find the cows sheet ? Sorry don't know where ton find it they only had it at the doctors office, I'm not terrible uncomfortable but it's creeping up on me , the lightheadedness, the irritability, headache , body aches.

Let me know where to find the cows , thanks Robert

[Elyse123]

Oh, and my stomach is starting you know ....she Hershey squirts...sorry that's gross

[Elyse123]

Robert on the Cows I'm at a 12 or 13??? I looked up the COWS on google.

[Robert_325]

Robert on the Cows I'm at a 12 or 13???

We should give it just a little longer. Your dose will be double what it should be if we do it now. These last few numbers you need will start to increase quickly. I will be here, not going anywhere. Let's give it a good hour or possibly two and you should be ready.

Go to Featured Drugs and you'll see the link to the COWS worksheet in the INDUCTION section of the sub therapy sticky post at the top of the page. We'll have this done today, don't worry! God bless.

[Elyse123]

Can you check back with me in an hour please!!!???

[Robert_325]

Can you check back with me in an hour please!!!???

You got it!

[Elyse123]

Thank you

[Elyse123]

I'm still at mild but these are my symptoms just so you know.....my joints hurt, diarrhea bout 3 times, very tired , yawning, starting to get anxious, stomach cramping, all and all I'm still mild , looking at the chart, I'm kind of frustrated, I want to do this the right way but I don't want to be in full withdrawl again please advise me , my last dose of subutex was yesterday at 11:30am. Thank you Robert!

[Elyse123]

11:30am yesterday at 4mg subutex last dose ..fyi

[Robert_325]

11:30am yesterday at 4mg subutex last dose ..fyi

go ahead and take .5mg now. Give it 90 minutes and post back to me. Tell me how you feel.

[Elyse123]

Thank you Robert see you in 90 minutes

[nobby02]

Elyse, I didn't make it to the bathroom on day 2 so I took an immodium, don't be afraid to take one.

[Robert_325]

You can take imodium AD as needed. It will actually help with w/d symptoms too like that turning of the stomach. It has an opiate base to it, but nothing that will interfere with your recovery.

[nobby02]

Robert I hear that you say that Doctors put people on too much sub and I agree. When I went I started at 8, then went down to two. Probably the 8 was too high but I did split it. I can't imagine 32mg, holy mackeral.

Yeah not fun cleaning up after yourself, but it is what it is. Wonder why that happens though. Robert?

[Robert_325]

Robert I hear that you say that Doctors put people on too much sub and I agree. When I went I started at 8, then went down to two. Probably the 8 was too high but I did split it. I can't imagine 32mg, holy mackeral.

Yeah not fun cleaning up after yourself, but it is what it is. Wonder why that happens though. Robert?

I have seen people show up here on 40mg a day and even more! Then they want me to get them clean in a month or less. Drs mess so many people around.

[Elyse123]

okay so a few minutes until 90 minutes, by the way I didn't mention this before , I'm an animal nurse and I can't wait to get back to work, with your help I know I can get back to my nursing so again, Robert thank you.....okay my symptoms are as follows after the initial 0.5 mg dose:

Diarrhea- stopped completely
Muscle/ joint aches- still there but have decreased by about 45percent
Dizziness - 80percent better
General malaise - decreased by 35 percent
Yawning - still yawning

Please let me know if I should do the next 0.5 dose, my thought is yes, but Id rather do what you advise me to do.

Thank you.