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Advice Needed....
  1. #1
    Schaff25 is offline Member
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    Default Advice Needed....

    Hello All

    I am on day 35 with no opiates and now after escaping with my life, I am still having back pain. I had my back surgery less than 5 months ago. Foolishly, I went for a few runs as soon as my back felt better, which was not the smartest thing to do.

    My back has been killing me the last week, almost as bad as it hurt before the surgery.

    My doctor who specailizes in addiction and knows that I can't take opiates because the prescribed amount is never enough, wants me to start on Suboxone.

    I have read horror stories about this drug and the last thing I want to do right now is take another drug. I am going to AA meetings 2 times a day, I have a sponsor, I am working the steps........BUT I am still in pain. I am so frustrated about this, as I know how miserable I was when addicted to pain meds and alcohol. I just want to get my life back completely, without any pain.

    Do I take the Suboxone to see if helps with my pain? I hear the withdrawls are awful from it...but i get mixed info.

    Any help would be greatly apprecaited.

  2. #2
    AlmostHome is offline Junior Member
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    I have never taken sbxn, but i do know all about back pain. Now that i am clean (and not looking to get high) i am amazed at how well a couple mortin along with 1/2 of a 50mg tramadol actually works for pain. which is amazing because i used to take 6 of them every day and still had pain. Is your back pain constant or do you have episodes?

  3. #3
    Schaff25 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostHome View Post
    I have never taken sbxn, but i do know all about back pain. Now that i am clean (and not looking to get high) i am amazed at how well a couple mortin along with 1/2 of a 50mg tramadol actually works for pain. which is amazing because i used to take 6 of them every day and still had pain. Is your back pain constant or do you have episodes?
    Thanks for the reply.

    When I first got off the percs and oxy's about 35 days ago, I did not have any back pain at all... Now it is becoming pretty relivant everyday. I went on three sepereate runs on the beach when I know I should not have, but I was feeling good....and that is just how I operate, unfortunately. I had my L5 Fusion done in late September....

    I took 2 mgs of suboxone twice yesterday and I felt really messed up from it. I felt high, anxious, etc. I could not sleep last night either. Now, I just woke up and i have the worst headache. Is this normal?

    My doctor who gave me the suboxone is in the AA Program and he said this would take away any pain I had and also not make me feel like a drug addict by taking it. I don't like the way I feel right now....I feel hungover.

    Doct just wants me to take 3 2mg's of suboxone daily.

    HELP? THoughts? WHat hte hell am I doing?

    I can tough out the pain if needed....

  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi!

    WOW! I know that subs can be prescribed for pain but they are an opiate and they are VERY addictive! He may as well have given you your oxy back. AND subs are much more difficult to get off of when the time comes. Their half-life is long and the withdrawal symptoms more intense. I have no personal experience with them, but I've been a member of this Forum for over 2 years and have read alot about them. Even the fact that you are taking 6mg/day from what I've read is excessive. I've followed many threads where Robert (our sub expert here on the Forum) has helped people induct on subs and provide them with a tapering plan to get off of them. What I have read on these boards in these threads is that Robert inducts people at as little sub as possible to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay. Even those individuals who were taking hundreds of mgs of opiate per day find that they are able to use as little as 3 or 4 mg/day of the subs at the beginning and oftentimes even less than that. Then, the tapering begins immediately after they are stabilized (found the least amount of sub possible to avoid withdrawal symptoms).

    Anyway, I'm not the expert but there are other members that most certainly are. I'm going to hope that one of them finds you real soon to give you advice. In the meantime, you are playing with fire here and your physician has given you the matches! Please be careful and don't jeopardize your 35 days of clean time! Again...WOW!

    Keep us posted and try to find Robert or Denny. Either can give you advice. Just reading your post scares me for you. Feel better soon, OK?

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Catrina; 02-14-2012 at 08:58 AM.
    "Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars." Kahil Gibran (1883-1931).

  5. #5
    AlmostHome is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaff25 View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    When I first got off the percs and oxy's about 35 days ago, I did not have any back pain at all... Now it is becoming pretty relivant everyday. I went on three sepereate runs on the beach when I know I should not have, but I was feeling good....and that is just how I operate, unfortunately. I had my L5 Fusion done in late September....

    I took 2 mgs of suboxone twice yesterday and I felt really messed up from it. I felt high, anxious, etc. I could not sleep last night either. Now, I just woke up and i have the worst headache. Is this normal?

    My doctor who gave me the suboxone is in the AA Program and he said this would take away any pain I had and also not make me feel like a drug addict by taking it. I don't like the way I feel right now....I feel hungover.

    Doct just wants me to take 3 2mg's of suboxone daily.

    HELP? THoughts? WHat hte hell am I doing?

    I can tough out the pain if needed....
    I understand i have an inoperable compound fracture of my L3 which is split into 4 pieces. They wont operate on me because i am young and there are no guarantees i wont be paralized after. I have to admit for as bad as the wdraw is from tramadol they do actually work for back pain. I usually tell people on here that they may infact need medical intervention but in order to determine how much they have to be clean and not seeking a high. I now take tramadol as needed (maybe once a month), the last time i took a whole pill and i hated the way it made me feel. I now take 1/2 mixed with motrin and i am all patched up. Another option is steroids (which are the best anti inflamatories out there). An opiate is no always he best choice. I agree witb Catrina, sbxn is bad news, i have read some pretty bad stories on this forum about it.

  6. #6
    Schaff25 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostHome View Post
    I understand i have an inoperable compound fracture of my L3 which is split into 4 pieces. They wont operate on me because i am young and there are no guarantees i wont be paralized after. I have to admit for as bad as the wdraw is from tramadol they do actually work for back pain. I usually tell people on here that they may infact need medical intervention but in order to determine how much they have to be clean and not seeking a high. I now take tramadol as needed (maybe once a month), the last time i took a whole pill and i hated the way it made me feel. I now take 1/2 mixed with motrin and i am all patched up. Another option is steroids (which are the best anti inflamatories out there). An opiate is no always he best choice. I agree witb Catrina, sbxn is bad news, i have read some pretty bad stories on this forum about it.
    Wow, that is ALL i can say! Almost and Cat..thanks for your notes.

    I was in such pain on Sunday and yesterday, that I had no choice but to give the suboxone a try. What a disaster that was. Yesterday I took my first 2mg strip and felt really strange...but the pain did go away. then yesterday evening I took the 2nd strip and I had the worst night sleep ever. I felt like I was detoxing off the opiates again....minutes felt like hours. It wasn't as bad as the opite withdrawls, but i was very anxious and annoyed all night. I did make it to my 7am AA meeting though.... and then I came straight home and spoke to my doctor who gave me the subs.... he said I needed to take another this morning, so I reluctantly did. UGHHHH, bad idea.... I was soooo damn iritable all day long. My mom came over to have lunch and I bit her head off like 10 times for no reason. She has always been my biggest fan and now here I am treating her like ???? for no good reason. I hate drugs....the only reason I took the subs was because I was in so much back pain. I trusted this old doctor.. he has been in AA for like 50 years and said that Suboxone would not do ANYTHING to me and I would not feel a thing. WRONG, that stuff is nasty. I had sex wtih my girlfrined last night for like 2 hours and could not get off. She was really annoyed! yes, my back has not hurt since I took the subs, but I was whacked out and I felt so gross and iritable. I just know that I can not tolerate any type of drugs ever again. I luckily only took a total of 6 mgs of Suboxone....2mg 3 times. I threw away what I had left. UGHHHH, these god damn doctors just pollute us with HELL. I am doing everything the natural way from now on, no matter what. I still have 37 days or so of sobriety and I am back to reading my big book tonight. I was prescribed this dumb drug, I was desperate...bad idea.

    ughh, i am still feeling cranky and pissy. did anyone else experience this? the subs make crazy. i hate drugs and the doctors who push them on us. Of course this man did not push the drugs on me, but he said it would help....yet I don[t think he has a clue about what it really does to people. UGHHHHHHHHH!!!

  7. #7
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    Hi Schaff , its Flatsman . Sorry to hear about your bump in the road . You were doing so good the last time we talked. I dont know anything about the Subs but there are some experts here on the site. Wish you could have talked to Robert325 or someone like that here on the site. They seem to know way more then the DRs . All I can do is offer encouragement to you. I am on Day 38 and I am struggling with anxiety all of a sudden . ( About the last three days it has got worse. ) . I am clenching my jaw and have lead suit syndrome too. From day 14 or so till day 30 or so , it was very manageable. Now I am fighting myself not to call the Dr to get more pills. So I feel your pain and I wonder if this is part of the addiction process trying to pull us back . Not saying your not in bad pain , just saying maybe it will subside. Thats what Im hoping for as far as my anxiety and lead suit. This is a really tough thing isnt it ? we both went through CT together and spurred each other on. Now we are struggling, it makes me feel hopeless again. I am just hanging on day by day. But I have no pain like you do my friend. I feel so bad for you. Keep the faith and keep trying.

  8. #8
    gamomma is offline Member
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    No no no you guys stay strong you can do it Schaff get off the stuff now the wd is much worse than anything I've felt ever I'm pulling for you both this roa is not easy but it can be done you guys have been inspirational to me no turning back now I'm no where near perfect but I can't go back look at how far you both have come you can't control these drugs they control you that's why were here we hated that life I'm praying you can find relief Schaff but please please get off those subs you guys have both worked so hard the finish line is in sight please don't let this deadly disease suck you back in ill talk with pray for whatever just don't go back

  9. #9
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    Hey Schaff , come on back and talk to us. It doesnt matter what the situation is, good or bad. You helped me a lot and I wont ever forget what an inspiration you were to me. i am on Day 41 and I still am anxious . But I read through my entire thread and it was really eye opening . THERE REALLY IS NO OTHER CHOICE . Unless you have unbearable pain , you need to stop. I know you were feeling so good and jogging and so forth. Please get your freedom from drugs if you can.

  10. #10
    gamomma is offline Member
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    Schaff don't get lost in this trap again please come back we are here for you pulling for you praying you don't lose your fight you had it you were doing awesome

  11. #11
    Schaff25 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamomma View Post
    Schaff don't get lost in this trap again please come back we are here for you pulling for you praying you don't lose your fight you had it you were doing awesome
    Hey Guys

    thanks for the support! I am still sober since Jan 8th, 2012! I just don't have as much time as I would like to get on the boards, as I am out living life again! I only took a total of 6 mgs of the suboxone, as instructed by my doctor and it was awful. I was really only on it for about 24 hours before realizng I just can't take any drug.

    I am having some back pain still, but the pain is nowhere near the pain and aguish the pills caused me. Still been going to AA meetings everyday. It made me realize that i am truly powerless over drugs and alcohol, no matter how my crazy ego/brain try to spin it.

    I don't want to use....I want to live and experience clarity and all that life can offer us. I HAVE found God, something I never thought was possible.

    Flatsman, I know you don't want to hear this, but you need to get into a room. That is the only thing that can save us from using agian. We can't do it alone, or at least I know I can't.

    congrats to you both and to me, for staying so strong. I am doing great...I do get a bit bored from time to time, but anythign is better than my bottoming out on pills for the past year.

    Peace.

  12. #12
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    Glad to hear your hanging in there Schaff . Yes the boredom or mundane as I refer to it , is very tough. I wish I could do the meetings but I cant. So , this forum is my lifeline. Im on it every day . This is one tough process my friend. Something tells me its going to be life long. But we cant go back to narcotics. Glad to hear your back is a little better. Maybe it was a blessing that you had a negative experience with the Subs. Keep going to your meetings my friend. I will keep in touch.

  13. #13
    girl80902 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaff25 View Post
    Wow, that is ALL i can say! Almost and Cat..thanks for your notes.

    I was in such pain on Sunday and yesterday, that I had no choice but to give the suboxone a try. What a disaster that was. Yesterday I took my first 2mg strip and felt really strange...but the pain did go away. then yesterday evening I took the 2nd strip and I had the worst night sleep ever. I felt like I was detoxing off the opiates again....minutes felt like hours. It wasn't as bad as the opite withdrawls, but i was very anxious and annoyed all night. I did make it to my 7am AA meeting though.... and then I came straight home and spoke to my doctor who gave me the subs.... he said I needed to take another this morning, so I reluctantly did. UGHHHH, bad idea.... I was soooo damn iritable all day long. My mom came over to have lunch and I bit her head off like 10 times for no reason. She has always been my biggest fan and now here I am treating her like ???? for no good reason. I hate drugs....the only reason I took the subs was because I was in so much back pain. I trusted this old doctor.. he has been in AA for like 50 years and said that Suboxone would not do ANYTHING to me and I would not feel a thing. WRONG, that stuff is nasty. I had sex wtih my girlfrined last night for like 2 hours and could not get off. She was really annoyed! yes, my back has not hurt since I took the subs, but I was whacked out and I felt so gross and iritable. I just know that I can not tolerate any type of drugs ever again. I luckily only took a total of 6 mgs of Suboxone....2mg 3 times. I threw away what I had left. UGHHHH, these god damn doctors just pollute us with HELL. I am doing everything the natural way from now on, no matter what. I still have 37 days or so of sobriety and I am back to reading my big book tonight. I was prescribed this dumb drug, I was desperate...bad idea.

    ughh, i am still feeling cranky and pissy. did anyone else experience this? the subs make crazy. i hate drugs and the doctors who push them on us. Of course this man did not push the drugs on me, but he said it would help....yet I don[t think he has a clue about what it really does to people. UGHHHHHHHHH!!!

    Schaff,

    I've just got back on the boards, as I've been away for about 10 days. I was reading about your back pain due to running again. I know you had some surgeries and I'm sure it's from overworking yourself. In the military we push ourselves to extreme limits. With that comes pain we have never had before. Try taking Magnisum supplement (found at Walmart) and get some Epsome Salt (found with the band aids at Walmart) soak in that in water as hot as you can stand. Take a multi vit because when you work yourself you use your body's mineral sources to supply the needed energry for pushing yourself. Also get a MOIST heat pack and heat it up then lay on it after a soak. If Motrin doesn't help then try taking 2 Tylenol with it...or even Aleeve. You can alternate these every 2 hours as needed. Your body is going to hurt ....because its just not conditioned for that kind of work out and t's still healing from recovery with surgery and trying to learn how to deal with pain without a narcotic. It takes time...you need to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run. Good luck! I agree with not supplementing one bad drug for another...at some point you will want off the subs and be right back to square one with your body learning to cope again.

  14. #14
    Schaff25 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by girl80902 View Post
    Schaff,

    I've just got back on the boards, as I've been away for about 10 days. I was reading about your back pain due to running again. I know you had some surgeries and I'm sure it's from overworking yourself. In the military we push ourselves to extreme limits. With that comes pain we have never had before. Try taking Magnisum supplement (found at Walmart) and get some Epsome Salt (found with the band aids at Walmart) soak in that in water as hot as you can stand. Take a multi vit because when you work yourself you use your body's mineral sources to supply the needed energry for pushing yourself. Also get a MOIST heat pack and heat it up then lay on it after a soak. If Motrin doesn't help then try taking 2 Tylenol with it...or even Aleeve. You can alternate these every 2 hours as needed. Your body is going to hurt ....because its just not conditioned for that kind of work out and t's still healing from recovery with surgery and trying to learn how to deal with pain without a narcotic. It takes time...you need to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run. Good luck! I agree with not supplementing one bad drug for another...at some point you will want off the subs and be right back to square one with your body learning to cope again.
    Hey Girl

    You must have wrote that before reading everything...as I was only on the subs for less than 24 hours, but what a bad experience that was!

    i definetely soak in Epsom everyday and it seems to help out. I stopped running, as that seemed to be the demon. I have been doing some light workouts and started yoga. damn, that yoga is tough and I am in really good shape.

    Overall, I feel pretty good. I did have a bit of a pity party over the weekend for myself. i am not sure if you know, but I am working the 12 Step Program in AA. It is awesome and something I know I need to remain sober. I wont go into my AA rant, but it is working for me and I have found a new way to live. Already starting Step 4...which won't be easy, but it something I am comitting to do not just for my family and friends, but for myself! I am completely powerless over alcohol and drugs, so I am turning it over to somebody else to take me through this second life I have been givin Ok, so much for not preaching!

    I don't even know how many days I have, somewhere in the 40's....and I can honestly say I have never felt better! Being alive is just amazing. Not being in a haze has really helped me open my eyes to what life is all about. I can tolerate the pain my back gives me from time to time, but I can't live under a narcotic the rest of my life.

    Peace.

  15. #15
    gamomma is offline Member
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    Schaff you go boi I'm so proud of you your doing it that's awesome so glad those subs gave you a bad experiance I was worried they messed me up in the beginning but here I am 30 days today yep yep and I'm sleeping again 8 10 hours still not lots of energy but ots also coming back I also work the steps AA NA has been my rock outside all of you guys when I could not get out of bed in the beginning this site was my AA or NA now I read this everyday but also go to meetings as much as I can. I am so proud of all of us for doing this getting clean being here sharing our struggles it has helped me so much stay strong guys were still going strong

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