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I have to fire my Pain Management Doctor
  1. #1
    oldhen is offline Junior Member
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    Default I have to fire my Pain Management Doctor

    I need advice, I went to my pain management Doctor the other day it was time for my meds for the month. He prescribes Hydrocodone 5/500 3X a day Every 8 hours. I take them as prescribed as I don't want to get into any trouble. They just don't cover the pain- What I mean is they do for about 3 hours then I have to wait another 5 hours for another pain pill. I have told him over and over my meds are not working and he just sits there writing me the same script over and over.

    Well I have a case manager who checks on me at home 3X a month or more if I need her. Well anyway I had her talk to him and he hit the roof.

    He yelled at me- He yells and gets so angry at alot of the patients. And he asked me to sign a release for my mental health records. I asked him what he needed them for and he said to check and see what you told your therapist.
    Anyway I was so upset and crying and crying after I left his office I called my husband and he won't let me go back there to finish my treatments.

    Can I fire this doctor? And will another Pain Doctor take me?
    He said he will never and I mean Never increase my meds.

    What can I do about this Doctor should I report him? And where do I go to do that?

    Thanks for replying I really need advice FAST!!
    Oldhen

    oldhen
    lynninpa and drewglover like this.

  2. #2
    zippysgoddess is offline Platinum Member
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    Wow, another board member, catsmeow (thanks!!), sent me an email saying I might want to read your post, and she was certainly right.

    I have no idea where this doctor received his pain management training but it either wasn't in any modern setting with modern findings, or he slept through the classes and lectures. But he sure doesn't know much about handling chronic pain patients, neither pain, nor mental health wise.

    First of all, a short acting med like you were getting, the Hydrocodone 5mgs and Acetaminophen 500mgs is not a long-term pain control med, which is exactly the problem you were having with it. These typically take as long as 20 minutes to start working and they only last about 4 hours, more or less, depending on your pain level and how bad or out of control it is.

    For total pain management, these types of meds should only be used as a med for breakthrough pain, that way it works fast and last while, until the long-acting med you should be taking can kick in.

    So ideally, a patient in a real pain-management program who has been cooperative with their doctor's and is down to narcotic pain control as their only remaining option, which is usually the only way you end up in pain management, is on something long-acting like a version of Oxycontin or MS Contin that are time released to last 12 hours, or perhaps something like Avinza which comes in a 24 hour release form, then you should have a shorter acting med, like that one you had, like I said above, that could be used in between doses or at moments when that long-acting med just isn't handling all of your pain.

    So any doctor who expects a chronic pain patient to rely on Hydro 5/500 for all of their pain relief just doesn't know much about pain, and he should not be handling anyone's pain management. Now, the normal dosing for this is not even one every 8hours like he had you on, that would be a dosing schedule used for someone with very mild to moderate pain, perhaps an arthritis sufferer who isn't in pain all the time and doesn't need constant pain control. The correct dosage of these, either for short term control of bad pain from say an auto accident injury, broken bone, or as a breakthrough med should be every 6 hours, and it can be taken, if needed and doctor approved, as often as every 4 hours for those with serious pain issues.

    Now, his blow-up because you talked to your case manager, and had her talk to him about it, is just childish, he wasn't listening to you and you had every right to have an advocate on your behalf speak up for you. My husband was in intensive case management for a few years after he left from being hospitalized for depression, and I know she would and was able to go to bat for anything he needed her to handle, that is what these people are there for. Obviously this doctor has an ego problem, a god-complex it seems, and has trouble with anyone questioning his authority.

    The fact that he would not even talk to you about your problems with the med not handling your pain is a dead give-a-away that he is a know-it-all who thinks he knows all there is to know about it, and that he even thinks he knows you, your body, and your pain levels better than you do. What a ridiculous attitude.

    You are of course, in no way obligate to let him see your mental health records, it is none of his business what you told your therapist, so I sure hope you didn't sign them for him. If you did, make sure you keep your therapist updated on how he treated you and why he claimed he wanted to see those records, if you also explain that you signed them under duress because of his anger and feeling threatened, they may cancel his order to get copies of them, or if they have already sent them, they can prevent him from getting any future information that you do not authorize.

    As to firing him, yes, you have every right to do that and to go see a different doctor, if you have a family doctor, or talk to your therapist, or case manager, they might be able to find you a better doctor nearby that can help you and provide you with a referral for treatment. You are never obligated to continue treatment from any doctor that you feel is volatile, not listening to his patients, and who is not adequately meeting your needs.

    I don't know if you signed a pain management contract when you began seeing him, it is a standard agreement that most pain management clinics or specialists have new patients sign, stating they agree to cooperate with suggested treatments, to give any med or therapy a fair chance to work before wanting to move on to something else, and that you will not accept pain prescriptions from any other doctors or ERs while you are under their care, unless they authorize such. However, even if you signed a contract like this, you, the doctor, or his representatives, may legally break said contract at any time, for any violations of the listed agreements, or any general problems that you, or they, just feel are not being handled correctly there or can't be handled there.

    So just like a doctor is not ever obligated to treat you, except for when you are rushed to an emergency facility with a life-threatening condition, neither are patients obligated to continue under any doctor that they are not happy with for whatever reason.

    Now, as to reporting his behavior YES make sure that you do. Not only should he be under someone's scrutiny for his behavior, but other referring entities in your area, such as your family doc, therapist, case manager and etc. should also be aware of his actions, treatment of patients and his general attitude, so they stop sending people there. When he starts losing business and wondering why, maybe he will learn something. I am not sure what state you are in, but you can contact the Doctor's medical review board in your state, you should be able to find their information by doing a quick internet search, and a short phone call or email to them is all it will take to get the information you need to make a full report on him.

    I know it might seem to some people that it would be simpler in the long run to just walk away and seek treatment elsewhere, but sometimes when a doctor has this type of attitude it just isn't that simple. This "doctor" (and I am using that term very loosely at the moment! LOL!) can be putting anything he wants to in your patient file and of course, since you don't usually look through your own file at each visit, you have no-way of knowing what he has put in there.

    I am really sorry if this upsets you further, but you really need to know this so you can protect yourself, but he could be putting notes in there saying you are a drug addict, or you are showing drug seeking behavior and etc. and that is why he wouldn't give you different meds or up your dosage. It sure seems like he assumes that everyone using his service is an addict instead of a pain management patient, and if he has that listed in your records from his office, it could create real problems for you in the future when you try to see a different pain specialist or need additional treatment. More than anything else in your file, other doctors rely on the information put in there by your treating doctors to get a true assessment of you. It is just the way things work in the medical community.

    Now, if you try to get a copy of your records from him on your own, they are allowed to sensor, which means they can remove any items they don't want you to see, by claiming that such information could be mentally damaging to the patient. So even if you got a copy and they look fine, you have no way of knowing what he is sending to or telling other doctors about you. So, the smartest thing to do would be to have your family doctor request copies of his records, one you have apprised them of the situation, or to have your therapist obtain them. That way you can sit with them and look through and check what he is putting in there. You can't hide the fact that you were seeing him for a period of time from a new doctor or pain program you might go into, but your regular doc and/or therapist can help you make sure that the new doctor in question only receives updated and correct information on you, and not any of his silly accusations.

    Now, another way to protect yourself, do not be shy about inviting any new doctor you see for treatment to check you out as thoroughly as they want, be honest with them, let them feel comfortable treating you. Even if he tries to say you are an addict or drug seeker, you can easily let a new doctor access your information through your files, as well as medical and pharmaceutical databases, so they can see he was the loopy one, and that you only took the meds as prescribed, even though they didn't help. A few minutes is all it will take for them to have your name punched up in the DEA database, which records all pharmaceutical transactions and see that you were not trying to abuse meds, or do doctor or pharmacy hopping.

    Even if this is something you did in the past, by being honest and open now, you can prevent them from being worried that you are still doing it.

    But seriously, this doctor is acting like he is treating a bunch of addicts, and not people with real medical problems. He is acting like he is operating a rehab facility rather than a pain management clinic, and if he isn't going to provide the treatment and help he is supposed to, then he should go do something else. I mean if he is that miserable doing pain management and not really helping anyone, there is nothing making him stay in that speciality.

    I really feel sorry for what you are going through here, and I totally sympathize. This advice is not coming from just another board member, I am a chronic pain patient myself, an am disabled due to a degenerative spinal condition. No matter what I take med wise, I am in pain everyday, all day, due to a nerve root impingement of my sacral nerve.

    Anyway, sorry my post is so long winded, I just wanted to explain some things, and let you know that you are not alone in having bogus pain management problems. Most doctors are great and really care about helping people, but there are those bad apples that get greedy and just want to get whatever money they can out of you or your insurance, and they could care less what happens to you, or if you are really in pain and need help. Very sad, but true nonetheless. If you do a search online, you will find other people with similar experiences and it is very, very sad and tragic.

    It scares some people away from getting the help they need, and because of the people who have abused meds, and played the game of doctor and pharmacy hopping, all docs must now be cautious and wary when they treat someone in pain and they have to make sure you really do need these pills and be ready to explain that to the DEA at any time if they give you that prescription.

    Thus many docs just don't want to deal with prescribing anything beyond a schedule III or IV drug, which is what you were getting since it had the Acetaminophen in it, some, like your doc apparently did, also convince themselves that there just isn't any pain that bad to warrant heavier meds, and if the patient says they are still in pain in spite of his mild prescriptions, then they must be a drug seeker.

    I know that docs do have to be careful, since I always ask questions about everything, my doc has explained to me the full procedure and the files they have to keep for the DEA and how they can lose their license if they don't. Every month when I go in now for my med review appointment, I watch as she has to Xerox copies of the scrips she gives me, so they have them all on file if they need them. She even showed me the pharmaceutical report they pull on me, and all other patients who are on benzo and/or narcotic therapies, from the DEA pharmacy database, so they have that information on hand, to show that the person wasn't engaging in any suspicious behavior, just in case the DEA would ever ask or be investigating someone.

    You will even find some posts on here, from quite a few people, who through no fault or abuse of their own, ended up being reported as participating in suspicious behavior and being red-flagged to all docs, hospitals, and pharmacies by the DEA. It is a nightmare for them to get it straightened out again so they can get the treatment they desperately need and deserve. Sometimes they just shared a name with someone else, sometimes they had prescripions stolen or they accidentally ran out a little earlier than the DEA thought they should because their pain was out of control and they had to get by until their next docs appointment, so all the rest of us have to suffer because of the abusers.

    Many people also just assume that if you take narcotics you are an addict, many people don't understand chronic pain and how anyone could need drugs that potent for long-term usage. I have had my own father lecturing me about the meds I am taking and how addictive they can be, and he knows how bad my condition is, but he has never been there, so he doesn't comprehend what it is like to always be in pain. This is a man who wouldn't take anything stronger than Tylenol and his use of that was one dose over about 7 years.

    So what I am saying is, as long as you are under treatment, be it a permanent thing, or just temporary because your condition, or the injury that is causing your pain will eventually heal and get better, you will always have to deal with someone who is a jerk about it and doesn't understand why you need strong pain meds. Unfortunately for you, you ran into a doctor who has that attitude, as I said, he obviously doesn't get it, and really doesn't comprehend, nor care to understand, chronic pain even on a short term basis.

    So when you see someone new, even if you are certain that a med or treatment won't help, you will still have to cooperate and give it a try, you will have to prove yourself to them as being in control, not drug seeking, and willing to cooperate to get the best treatment possible for your condition. Your new doc might want you try to same med for awhile, either on a higher dosage since the Hydro pills are available in up to 10mgs or at a more frequent daily dosing schedule of the same dose, because they will want to try to use something as mild as possible to get your pain under control, before resorting to the heavier and stronger meds. Like I said, they do have to worry about addiction, especially if your condition isn't permanent, so you really have no choice but to go to a different doc, and while you can voice your opinion and tell then what has and hasn't worked for you, you are going to have to be totally cooperative to prove that you aren't just wanting the meds to get high.

    You are also going to have to make sure you give any med or therapy they try a fair chance to work, before going in and saying you need something stronger. I can see you were already doing that with this doc, if you were in their for your monthly med appointment, then you were sure on it long enough for it to have reached peak efficacy for you in your body at that dosage and scheduling interval, so you shouldn't have a problem with that at all.

    But, unfortunately, just like I said before, chronic pain patients with real, legitimate medical problems do have to suffer because of the abusers and the measures that the DEA, docs, and pharmacies have had to take to try to prevent that. However, if you get a good doc this time, who is really educated about pain and managing it, it will not take very long to establish yourself as being fully cooperative and reliable, and they will eventually relax with you and be willing to work with you to get you a med that works.

    See there are also many people out there who expect a miracle when they finally get a narcotic prescription for their pain, they expect that drug to work immediately and get rid of all their pain, so they can feel normal again. However, meds don't work that way. When you first start taking it, you will more than likely get some relief, but you do have to keep using it for a few weeks until you get the full benefit of the drug and the worst of the side effects wear off.

    I eventually lucked out as a doctor who has taken courses in pain management and is now a specialist in it, joined my doctors practice, so I no longer have to run out trying to figure out who can help me, he is right there ready to advise and sign scrips everytime I go in for my monthly appointment.





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  3. #3
    oldhen is offline Junior Member
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    Thank You so much for all the information. I will take all your advice I too suffer from Degenerative Disc Disease and Multiple Disc Bulges in Neck and Back. He sure didn't have any trouble taking MEDICARE money for his over priced treatments.

    I never said I wanted a different drug but I thought if I could at least take it sooner that would be a big help.

    I did everything I was asked. I just don't understand some Doctors think they are GOD.

    Thanks again
    oldhen

    I live In TN


    oldhen

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    zippysgoddess is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes, unfortunately, some doctors do develop a God complex. It is an awful experience when you encounter someone like this, and realize you aren't going to get the help you need, because they just won't listen, and you have wasted your time even going there.

    I had a specialist my doctor once sent me to, who was so detached it was incredible, he barely said two words to me, he spent most of his time, the little bit he bothered to spend in the exam room with me, speaking about me into his little tape recorder like I wasn't even there. He even said stuff, that did not apply to me, but of course, he couldn't take the time to find that out. When he did speak to me, it was to holler at me for not having the proper treatment when I was a child, as if, when they first discovered my scoliosis back then, I had any control at 12 years old, over what they doctors decided to do to treat me. He was a total jerk, I refused to ever go see him again, so my doc hunted around to find a specialist with experience in scoliosis issues for me, the guy we found did mainly pediatric patients, but he does keep up on his studies, the modern information, treatments and etc.

    At first, he kind of pooh-poohed my pain and wouldn't take it seriously, he said scoliosis doesn't usually cause pain. Then he left the room to look at my x-rays and when he came back in, he brought them with him to show my husband and I, and his whole tune changed. From where we thought he was going to be a jerk, too, it turns out he just didn't realize how bad mine was, and how many complications had set in with it as I grew up, worked, had a child, and of course just aged normally. Once he did, he was totally understanding and I never had a problem with him again.

    It was kind of funny, my friend's son was sent to this same person for a problem with his shoulder, he'd already had surgery on it once, and they doc had messed something up, so he didn't want to go back and have the same experience, so they sent him to this specialist. I told him, before his went, about what the guy did to me, and afterwards he thanked me for warning him, because they guy did the same thing to him, he didn't take him pain seriously, until he saw the x-rays. Now, this guy fixed his shoulder the right way and it has been fine ever since.

    There are good docs out there, you just sometimes find an ego before you find someone who really cares. I had a nightmare experience with pain management before, too. You just have to go find someone who really gives a whit, and then you will get the help you need.



    My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~

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    Rscprincess1 is offline Member
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    hey zippy good post lots of info but 1 question did ya finger get numb lol [:I]

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    bdoon51 is offline New Member
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    Default Fire Pain Doctor

    My family physician was prescribing me pain medication. I had had 3 joint replacement surgeries in a year but the surgeon's office often was very hard to deal with or else several times they prescribed me medication that I was allergic to and they had that info on my chart....the surgeon was good but the practice wasn't. So my family physician took over my medication. I indicated to that doctor I wanted to start to taper down off the pain medication. They said ok and sent me to a pain specialist. This pain specialist made me sign a contract and gave me a min-lecture about drug abuse...that bothered me but I thought it would be ok. The pain doctor prescribed me a bunch of meds including Ultram ER. I was now taking about 7 different meds including Lexapro. After a couple of days I began feeling jittery , very tired,hyper (along with tired)and just not very good. I called the pain doctor office and spoke with his PA...he said the doctor would call me back. I researched on the drug interaction checker sites and all of them said not to prescribe Lexapro with Ultram....that it could cause serious problems. I told my family doctor about this...the prescriptions....the fact that the pain doctor nevert called me back and the way I was lectured before he even knew me. I asked the family doctor to oversee my taper down on the pain meds. I feel bad but I think I am justified to fire this pain doctor. Am I? I don't doubt the pain doctor's sincerity but I have had so many bad experiences over the last year with physicians offices and hospitals that I am really tired of it. My family doctor has been one of the few bright spots this last year. I have even put off having followups on a lung problem I have because I am afraid of bad news and more surgery.

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    wolseley is offline New Member
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    This was an interesting thread, but I would ask a question here, and one that applied to myself several years ago. I, too, 'fired' a doctor and made an appointment with another. When I went to this new doctor, I was automatically accused of doctor shopping. Of course this doc wasn't going to go for me, so I moved on to yet another doctor and now it really did look like I was doctor shopping. I countered with the fact that I was - I was shopping for a doctor who would take my concerns seriously. But how does one get pass the stigma of this? It was a horrible experience and it wasn't until I got to my fifth doctor that I got any help. I don't even want to begin to tell you how I was branded in such a small town!

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    searchbro is offline New Member
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    If anyone is still watching this thread and is seeing a pain doctor:

    I just saw my first pain dr. for a chronic pain condition that's getting worse. I didn't really like him, and just felt so "childish" as most people have mentioned similar experiences with.

    anyways my question was, when they made me sign that opioid contract thing, he did give a very snooty, and snotty type of lecture about not abusing, and talking to me like I was 5 and quite rudely. I've never abused drugs, and have legitimate lab reports to back up my pain condition. A poster above mentioned something similar, the "lecture"

    so I guess I'm asking if this is completely normal, and if all pain doctors are so totally condescending or not? I could tell that he didn't really believe I was in much pain, at least nowhere near what I really am in. I also realize the reality of having such a job, and it must get old giving the same spiel about not abusing them, etc for every new patient. BUT that is their job, and under no circumstances should they take their frustration or boredom out on the patient. I mean, this is the first time I've ever seen this guy (or any pain dr. for that matter), I would have expected at least a tad bit more respect from him - I was certainly nice to him.

    Is this normal? Thank you!

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    BKRossKeith is offline New Member
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    Yes it is true about the drug abuse lectures. I truly believe that people who are not in pain, like we are, don't understand how much we are hurting.
    Good luck!

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    Twilight49 is offline New Member
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    Hi, I am new here, and I have been seeing a pain management doctor since my last surgery in June 07, I have been seeing them monthly, and in July my doctor decided to put me on a "taper down schedule" I followed the instructions my doctor gave me but have been in severe pain. when I would follow the taper schedule my pain increased, and I had called the pain center and they told me to go to the ER if my pain was bad. I had to go to the hospital 3 times due to uncontrolled pain. today I saw my pain management team today,they stooped my taper today, and wont prescribe any more pain medicine. so I personally fired my pain management doctor because all this and his refusal to listen to the pain I really am in.

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    sparkey is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldhen View Post
    I need advice, I went to my pain management Doctor the other day it was time for my meds for the month. He prescribes Hydrocodone 5/500 3X a day Every 8 hours. I take them as prescribed as I don't want to get into any trouble. They just don't cover the pain- What I mean is they do for about 3 hours then I have to wait another 5 hours for another pain pill. I have told him over and over my meds are not working and he just sits there writing me the same script over and over.

    Well I have a case manager who checks on me at home 3X a month or more if I need her. Well anyway I had her talk to him and he hit the roof.

    He yelled at me- He yells and gets so angry at alot of the patients. And he asked me to sign a release for my mental health records. I asked him what he needed them for and he said to check and see what you told your therapist.
    Anyway I was so upset and crying and crying after I left his office I called my husband and he won't let me go back there to finish my treatments.

    Can I fire this doctor? And will another Pain Doctor take me?
    He said he will never and I mean Never increase my meds.

    What can I do about this Doctor should I report him? And where do I go to do that?

    Thanks for replying I really need advice FAST!!
    Oldhen

    oldhen
    Are you on workers comp? If you do not like your PM doctor you may change your doctor after 90 days. I had problems that meds were not taking care of my pain either and i finally got put on Methadone 20mg a day. What a big difference in controlling my pain. That has helped me tremendously. If your PM doctor does not want to control your pain, why go to him? Time for another doctor. Tell your case manager what happened and they can get you another one. Good luck.

  12. #12
    nova9sw is offline New Member
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    Default Hi oldhen, I would fire him! Then report him to your states medical licensing...

    Hi oldhen, You can and should fire him. You are receiving the best care if he is yelling at you. Have you been through a Chronic Pain Program? There are short acting pain medications and long acting pain medications. Sounds like you need one of the longer acting pain medications. Such as Fentanyl(Duragesic) Patches, Methadone or slow release morphine. I would try to find a Chronic Pain Program in your area if I were you. Hope this helps. Steve

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    nova9sw is offline New Member
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    Default No that is not normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by searchbro View Post
    If anyone is still watching this thread and is seeing a pain doctor:

    I just saw my first pain dr. for a chronic pain condition that's getting worse. I didn't really like him, and just felt so "childish" as most people have mentioned similar experiences with.

    anyways my question was, when they made me sign that opioid contract thing, he did give a very snooty, and snotty type of lecture about not abusing, and talking to me like I was 5 and quite rudely. I've never abused drugs, and have legitimate lab reports to back up my pain condition. A poster above mentioned something similar, the "lecture"

    so I guess I'm asking if this is completely normal, and if all pain doctors are so totally condescending or not? I could tell that he didn't really believe I was in much pain, at least nowhere near what I really am in. I also realize the reality of having such a job, and it must get old giving the same spiel about not abusing them, etc for every new patient. BUT that is their job, and under no circumstances should they take their frustration or boredom out on the patient. I mean, this is the first time I've ever seen this guy (or any pain dr. for that matter), I would have expected at least a tad bit more respect from him - I was certainly nice to him.

    Is this normal? Thank you!
    A Chronic Pain Program is much better than seeing just one doctor for you chronic pain. Chronic Pain Program's have a multi-faceted approach to treating chronic pain. I am starting a Chronic Pain Program at Kaiser here in Northern California on October 8. Our group has already met most of the treatment team including the head of the program, an MD. He uses humor a lot. He also stated that chronic pain is a disease and is treated that way in their program. Sounds like the doctor you had seen has issues of his own. I would search for a pain program not just one doctor to begin with. At the end of the program they can refer you to pain specialist who understands chronic pain and will treat you with respect. Hope this helps. Steve

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    oldstylemike1 is offline New Member
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    fire His Ass Now!!!!he Works For You, Not The Other Way Around, Find A New One And Report Him.....
    eltonjohn likes this.

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    hauserss is offline New Member
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    Default my ppain manag,emt horror

    If you are taking the vicodin/hydrocodone 5/500 pills and they are not working long enough then there is a better alternative, Norco 10 mg. It has alot less of the aciedaminifine and it has double the dose of Hydrocodone. I have been there and eventually with hydrocodone you will reach this point were the 5 mg doesn't work. My old pain management doctor was through Kaiser and he was awesome. I have a new Ddr. cause I moved and he is all about expensive steroid/cortizone shots that I cannot afford on a regular basis cause I have 5 kids and I am currently working a full time job and going to school full time so my bugget is fixed. At the moment the only plausible treatment is the pills, and since he isn't making the money he wants to make off of me he has currently suspended my script unless I see him on a monthly basis instead of writing me the normal 3 month script and his nurse has been unbearable since I started going there. I have finally reached my breaking pont and fired him and have since gone on to find the right dr. The point of pain management is to take into consideration every aspect of the patients life, schedual, everything and choose the best route for that particular time. If you are paying for treatment you should not be treated like some kind of junkie for using a medication that is there to help someone with debilitating chronic pain. If the DR. is good he will know these things. If not Go tell him to ******************** off!!

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    carlos2284 is offline New Member
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    Default OldHen

    Oldhen:

    I do not know why you are taking the pain medication - if it is for neck or back pain go the www.IDDTherapy.com website - it is a non-invasive, pain and drug free therapy for acute and chronic pain - check it out.

    carlos

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Carlos ..... I just looked at this web site in detail. If there was a program that had been going on for six years that actually worked for everyone with any pain related to necks and backs we would know about it.

    Being someone personally with all kinds of back problems I just did an extensive search on this system as I was not familiar with it. Facts seem to indicate that close to 80% of patients who actually "meet their criteria" have success with it. However it's not covered by hardly any insurance, it's very expensive, treatments are daily during the week for six weeks, and there are a ton of conditions that this doesn't work on at all. They won't even touch you if you have one of many conditions on a LONG list of pretty common problems.

    It's improper to tell people that there is NO reason to take pain meds, that all they need to do is this treatment and all their pain will be gone. These are the facts. This is nothing more than one more treatment among many for back problems. If a person has plenty of money to pay out of pocket, can do a treatment daily for six weeks, and has a condition that meets with their requirements then I suppose it's worth looking into. I can tell you that I don't qualify with congenital scoliosis let alone if someone has had fusions, has hardware in their back, etc. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 03-18-2009 at 06:32 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  18. #18
    jlbellman is offline New Member
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    Post your rights

    hi i have been in pain management for about 5 years. so i know what your rights are. so yes you have the rights to fire your pain management doctor. you have the right to go any where you want for any reason. all you need to do is fine a new pain doctor and just tell your old doctor you are unhappy and you want a different pain doctor then if you signed a pain management contact ask then for a letter stating that you no longer in that doctor care. then just give that to your new pain management doctor. he should of gave you the pain meds for every for 4 hours. i hope that works for you if you have an more question please write back.

  19. #19
    normajean210 is offline New Member
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    Red face

    I agree you have a right as a patient to not be in pain and be treated respectfully at all times. I would find a new doctor and simply have the new doctor fax a release for medical records to your old doc. O 1 more thing a good med for nerve pain (neuropathy) is Neurontin (gabepentin) or Lyrica. They are the same drug its just the Lyrica is more potent. With a disc bulge and degenerative disc disease you probably are having some shooting pain and numbness and tingling, those will help with that. Most of our patients say the Lyrica with the regular pain meds make the biggest difference.

  20. #20
    surfdoc is offline New Member
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    Default Get off the hydrocodone!!

    You are experiencing drug tolerance. Hydrocodone is not the treatment of choice for anything. Get help. Get detoxed.

  21. #21
    badboy859 is offline New Member
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    Default wow!

    I've never heard such.I have had 2 surgeries and have disc problems in my back.No way I could survive on such little meds.I take 60mg of methadone per day.I have been on meds for about 15 years.Tennessee is pretty well known for handing out plenty of pain meds.You should be able to get plenty enough medicine to relieve your pain.Little advice,try the pain clinic downtown in Chaattanooga.Promise you'll come out of there with a smile on your face!I live in Ky where it's getting nearly imposible to get relief.If all else fails drive to Florida once a month!Good luck.
    daspyz likes this.

  22. #22
    Victimtwice is offline New Member
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    Arrow Have yet to be treated respectfully

    Despite my spouse having an Ivy league education, having NEVER been a smoker (cigarette or otherwise), having NEVER used street drugs, having ONLY ever used prescribed pain meds to combat back injuries sustained in an "accident" and the ensuing surgeries, NEVER has a urine test been off, etc. EVERY pain management practice we have been too has treated my spouse like a crack-head.

    Why must these damn holier than thou doctors look down their noses at those who TRULY need pain management. Like we asked for our lives to be turned upside down and almost die in an accident? Its so demeaning, and SO UTTERLY removed from the oath these bone heads take in medical school to care for and, God forbid, listen to their patients. Spouse VOLUNTARILY took himself to the hospital to get off the oxys because he realized that, even on the low dose of 80 x 3 times per day, the effects were beginning to fade due to tolerance issues, and he opted on the only other medicinal option available to him, being Suboxone. Well, you'd think he had been sent for said detox in a straight jacket and not of his own free will and volition. He is branded for life, a professional who now has the stigma of be thought of as a junkie, despite walking in lock-step with the program, and despite having a totally screwed up back that one is expected to just live with.

    We once had a staffer literally scream at us (yes us, the way they treated clients was so bad, that I insisted and began attending all appointments with my spouse as to have a witness to the shannigans and disrespect.) Funny thing was, she accused my spouse of never having gotten a requisite urine/blood test, and REFUSED to call the lab to inquire on same and honor his appointment. This was all in front of a room of patients, and not only embarassing, but slanderous in her attack on my spouse's character and inference of illicit drug use. Well, I whipped out my cell phone, asked for the lab's number (which she refused to give me), I then proceeded to call 411 myself, got through to the lab, and asked them to fax over the results. Over came the fax (while I refused to move out of the office and relinqiush my spot at the desk where they HAD TO DEAL WITH ME)...noting that said fax vindicated my spouse. Now after all of that, do you think we got an apology? HELL NO! Thus I did raise UTTER hell at that visit, and rightly so, and demanded that the woman be fired.

    Thing is with these docs, and now even more so with Michael Jackson's messed up situation, they treat everyone as a potential or prior drug addict, lumping medical situations in with regular street users. I am not saying good folk cant turn to the "dark side", but come on, to treat someone from the second they walk in the door like a child molester, illegal alien, you name the slime all rolled up into one, is inexcusable. For God's sake, people dont ask for MS, Cancer or an injury. They don't ask to loose their livelihoods, they dont ask to have to be tethered to monthly pain doc visits. They would MUCH RATHER be pain free. People in pain are not taking the meds to get high....as it was explained to me, those in pain only experience a period of pain reduction, whereas you or I (us without injuries or disease), would get high as a kite off these meds.

    They treat, talk and handle you as if you were a criminal. Something MUST be done in this country about how the infirmed are treated....its deplorable and infuriating. So, now I am now relegated to joining my spouse on visits, just to make sure that no B.S. goes down, and that I carefully journal all issues, and ensure that we secure copies of all urine tests.

  23. #23
    Victimtwice is offline New Member
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    Default

    Sadly, this is the norm. Docs are pressured by DEA, and patients, well, we are just numbers that could potentially risk his licensure.

  24. #24
    Victimtwice is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlbellman View Post
    hi i have been in pain management for about 5 years. so i know what your rights are. so yes you have the rights to fire your pain management doctor. you have the right to go any where you want for any reason. all you need to do is fine a new pain doctor and just tell your old doctor you are unhappy and you want a different pain doctor then if you signed a pain management contact ask then for a letter stating that you no longer in that doctor care. then just give that to your new pain management doctor. he should of gave you the pain meds for every for 4 hours. i hope that works for you if you have an more question please write back.

    If I could add another thing, get copies of your records, via another trusted doc, before pulling out. In this way, you can address any discrepancies with your new pain doc in the event that they try to cause you a rough transition as ALL pain management docs require you to get records from prior doc and explain why you are "doctor shopping" (welcome to the wonderful world of knowing terms you NEVER wanted to know, right?). Lets see... "I was tired of being treated like a criminal" just doesnt float with the new doc. Heck, our current doc is moving across country was even checked out/confirmed. They will think you are lying, were abusing, or werent taking your urine tests (goes back to my suggestion to always get copies of said blood or urine tests at each appointment).

  25. #25
    pallygirl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfdoc View Post
    You are experiencing drug tolerance. Hydrocodone is not the treatment of choice for anything. Get help. Get detoxed.
    That doesn't sound like her case it sounds like she just needs the DR to make sure that she can take it sooner ..she said it worked just wore off to soon

  26. #26
    mareke is offline Junior Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldhen View Post
    I need advice, I went to my pain management Doctor the other day it was time for my meds for the month. He prescribes Hydrocodone 5/500 3X a day Every 8 hours. I take them as prescribed as I don't want to get into any trouble. They just don't cover the pain- What I mean is they do for about 3 hours then I have to wait another 5 hours for another pain pill. I have told him over and over my meds are not working and he just sits there writing me the same script over and over.

    Well I have a case manager who checks on me at home 3X a month or more if I need her. Well anyway I had her talk to him and he hit the roof.

    He yelled at me- He yells and gets so angry at alot of the patients. And he asked me to sign a release for my mental health records. I asked him what he needed them for and he said to check and see what you told your therapist.
    Anyway I was so upset and crying and crying after I left his office I called my husband and he won't let me go back there to finish my treatments.

    Can I fire this doctor? And will another Pain Doctor take me?
    He said he will never and I mean Never increase my meds.

    What can I do about this Doctor should I report him? And where do I go to do that?

    Thanks for replying I really need advice FAST!!
    Oldhen

    oldhen
    I'm in Australia and if I wasn't comfortable with a doctor I'd see another or even several until I found one that I felt comfortable with. Here it’s easy to switch doctors and in my experience many don’t even require a copy of your medical records and will treat you on the basis of what you told them and the results of any tests that you brought with you.

    I don't believe your doctor has a right to know what you told your therapist but a general progress report from the therapist is probably justifiable. Your doctor yelling suggests a lack of both professional behaviour, maturity and self-control but I can understand how some doctors might resent a case manager ringing and saying that you weren't getting sufficient pain relief. The doctor probably interpreted this as someone telling him how to do his job and you using your case manager to try and get your doctor to increase your medication but even so yelling is an immature and unprofessional response.

    I wouldn’t report your current doctor as apart from being rude the only thing that you may be able to justify complaining about is that the medication he prescribed did not give you sufficient pain relief and the doctor isn’t likely to get into trouble for that because what sort of pain medication is appropriate for any condition is something that would vary from doctor to doctor. If you did report him and changed doctors there could also be communication between the old doctor and the new one and you could be labelled as a difficult patient.

    By all means try another doctor and explain to the new doctor that you felt that the medication your previous doctor prescribed was wearing off too quickly and if there is anything that lasts longer that you could try. It’s bit of a lottery though as to whether the new doctor will agree with you and he’s likely to want to determine the extent of your condition first before changing medication. I have a spinal condition with a long fancy name involving stiffening, disc narrowing and growths along my spine and a painful spine, neck, hips and hands and a couple of doctors have told me I need to learn to live with my pain and do without painkillers because they are addictive while others will prescribe painkillers that improve my quality of life and enable me to do things I wouldn’t be able to without them.

    I can live with a certain amount of pain but when it gets beyond a certain level I find painkillers have a place if used intelligently. I currently take a painkiller that lasts for most of the day and I use it on days when I feel a lot of pain or when I’m likely to do things that will cause me a lot of pain. I also have days when I use only over the counter stuff and avoid doing things that will stir up the pain. The last thing I want to do is be overly reliant on painkillers because then you are at the mercy of doctors who have different attitudes and approaches to treating pain. I remember when my current doctor was on holidays and the replacement doctor told me I should take fish oil and learn to put up with my pain. His response made me realize that it’s unwise to rely solely on doctors.

  27. #27
    jmoffett1982 is offline New Member
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    Unhappy My Family Doctor

    Hello everyone, my family doctor called me the other day and asked if he could send me to a pain management doctor for my back pain. I have degenerative disc disease in my lower back. My MRI shows about 11% of my disk left in L5. My doctor says that I have the back of an 80 year old man. My family doctor has been RX'ing Hydro 5mg/500mg for a couple of months. I was just wondering why he would want to send me to a pain management doctor? Is it because he doesn't want to give me a high pain killer or just can't and they can? I was just wondering what to expect from this "new" doctor he is sending me to. Any Comments? Thanks

  28. #28
    doc.rose is offline Advanced Member
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    Default

    I would think its because you suffer from chronic pain and vicodin is usually used for short term use not long term use. Maybe you doc thinks a pain management doc could serve you better in terms of your pain control.

  29. #29
    glad2bfree is offline New Member
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    Default Pain Management

    Yes, my primary doc, surgeon and neurologist had all at different times sent me to pain management. I find they simply want a specialist who is expert in those drugs to mange the situation and also in today's specialized environment, a primary probably gets a lot of scrutiny by the boards since regular dispensing of opiates really isn't their thing. When I went to my first pain doc, my neurologist and he talked on the phone while I was there which immediately paved the way to Duragesic (Fentanyl patches) and a breakthrough short acting med I don't recall which. Duragesic is supposed to be for long term pain treatment as it is "supposed to" have less potential to get out of control as short opiates can. That is A LIE!!! IF EVER offered Duragesic I would advise to Think Long and Hard about if you are willing to endure an eventual rough taper (even if done right) and a TOTAL NIGHTMARE if they fall off OR stop working on the 3rd day which happened to me A LOT. Fentanyl is the most powerful opiate made on earth. 75 to 100 times stronger than morphine. It made me seriously vomit up to 36 hours when the dose was markedly increased in an effort by the doc to achieve best pain control. It is the strongest opiate and not surprising it has the MOST EXTREME withdrawal YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY IMAGINE if suddenly stopped either by accident or by choice. MUST BE weaned down by smallest increments. I find a lot of people, myself included, having experienced the desperation of wanting to get free of them!!! I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NEVER have started them IF i knew what the eminent end was or the constant STRESS over the potential disaster looming over head if there was a sudden cessation. It takes only one time to experience unanticipated withdrawal that will send one feeling like every molecule in the universe is in DISASTER LAND with No ESCAPE!!! Pain docs will send you to a rehab program if you are in this nasty withdrawal, so there goes most of one month of one's life and lots of money and lost income. If I ever HAD not other choice to use Fentanyl again it would ONLY be in a hospital environment for only a few days following surgery (I.V. administration) when all else failed to control pain. In a hospital, the doc should be able to administer a smooth exit ramp off and on to more reasonable meds for near-term recovery at home. However, my experience on many occasions was that docs would even screw that up making me horrifically miserable. I now know what to look for now for pain control and would loathe to ever use that EVIL drug ever again!!! I had one pain doc similar to yours and I tried to get away from him but he constantly would not approve a release. He even IGNORED the second opinion by a doc HE recommended. MORON, BARBARIC PRICK!!! So some are good, some are BAD. It's up to you to decide who you want to be with BEFORE you get into serious treatment, then no other will have you as they don't want to clean up another guy's mess. OK, I'm done. Sorry for being so verbose! Be well!

  30. #30
    zephandi is offline New Member
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    Default fire pain dr/fentanyl patches

    i,too had an ortho who gave me fentanyl 100mcg patches,5th wk i went in he switched me to 5/325percocet,which did NOTHING for my pain,and i discovered i was addicted to fentanyl,i thought i was going to crawl out of my skin,plus hot flashes,legs twitching and that was only a few wks!but i have a problem now.so i started going to a pain clinic i liked the dr just fine,but then he got an assistant who sees me and prescribes my meds.she is very young just graduated.she has no compassion and treats me like a drug addict.i'm so glad to have found this site.bless you all!

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