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Is there ever an end?
  1. #1
    punkygirl13 is offline New Member
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    Default Is there ever an end?

    Hi everyone. Just found this site yesterday and have been reading everything on it ever sense. For the past 18 months or so I have been adusing percs. First started out as me getting my wisdom teeth out and needing them. But I continued taking them well after I needed to. It was just 5mg percs at first. One would knock me out. Then it wass 2 perc 5...then 3...then 4. then up to perc 10's. I would go through 5-8 a day easy. Then it jumoed to perc 30. I could use 4-5 in a day.

    I then was introduced to oxy 80. And it didnt give me the same high as a perc but it took away w/d. I am trying to wean off of the oxy 80. I am down to 2 a day but everytime i try to go less...I cant. I was looking into Ibogaine but not sure how I feel about that. I have tried subs and my w/d from that seems worse. When trying the subs I got a script for Ambien but I would wake up after an hour. I still have the script for ambien and lexapro because this has cause such deep depression.

    I just want this to end. I dont want to be dependent on it anymore to feel "normal". Is there an end? Can you really quit this without subs or methadone?

    edit: posted this somewhere else but think it should be here...

  2. #2
    humjez is offline Junior Member
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    Of course anything is possible it just matters how much you want it? I would not suggest going onto methadone. I did that and i regret it to this day. That is so much harder to get off of. I started with percs also and progressed to oxy and morphine then took methadone for a year and it was the hardest most drawn out WD i have ever experienced. If you are serious about it then i would start cuttin back your use. I have found that if i want to make the WD easier when coming down from a high dose is cut in half each day then when you run out of oxy take only 1 5/500 vicoden as needed. so like in a week go from taking 6 vics to 5 then 4 then3 ....... when you get to one break it in half and take half in morn and half at night then, no more. i did this recently and the WD sucked but it was not nearly as bad as coming off 80 mg oxy cold turk. IDN maybe this will help you or maybe not just a suggestion. There are other people on here who might have better advice but this is what worked for me. best of luck to you and to a new sober life.
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  3. #3
    NoMoreLies is offline Member
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    It is possible without subs or methadone. I used Vicodin, Fentanyl, Oxycontin and Percocet for over 3 years and I quit cold turkey. The first 5-7 days aren't fun but after that it starts to get easier. If you want to stop using bad enough it can be done. Sleep can take longer to go back to normal but it will! I used medications to help me sleep for 15 years and now I'm able to sleep 6-7 hours per night unmedicated. Do you have an support at home or friends who will be supportive? Surround yourself with positive people, check out an NA meeting and flush all your meds down the toilet. Good luck to you!

  4. #4
    punkygirl13 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for all the words of support. No one in my life knows about this. i think my mom suspects but she doesnt say anything. She just knows that money has been tight. I hid it well...always covered all of my bills. Lived very cheaply just so i could get my high. But I am tired of that. I am just so scared of the WD

  5. #5
    NoMoreLies is offline Member
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    It's ok to be scared of withdrawal, it's what keeps most of us using for as long as we did. I try to remember how miserable I was, and remember that so I don't use again! I don't want to go through that again! I was very embarrassed to tell my friends, I work in healthcare and so do most of my friends. They have all been so supportive of me and my partner and that has helped both of us. Once they knew they "saw" what they had missed for over 3 years, all the little things added up and it all made sense. We all think we hide it so well, but we don't. I worked full time, went to school full time while using but people still saw the change in me. It took me longer to see that I had changed.....once I started turning back into who I was before narcotics took my life over. Post often, there are many members here with YEARS of clean time. I have been clean for 5 weeks today! Good luck to you!

  6. #6
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    Welcome Punkygirl . Its a big step to face Day 1 . You can do this for sure. Its about seven days of bad stuff. Just think of it as a bad case of the flu . Sick as a dog for a week and not much that can be done about it. I know that sounds harsh . The prize is worth the battle. What other choice do you have? With the dose you were on , it will not be a good outcome. So switch that fear of WD to fear of what comes if you keep using. Keep your eye on the freedom that you want. If you get past the first week you will get a glimpse or two of the way you used to think so clearly. When you get those brain zaps of clarity it is easy to feed off of. You will want that feeling more and more. Just like you wanted the pills more and more. The feelings of clarity will come with every passing day. Its liberating when they come and they do come. Peace

  7. #7
    Fentyful is offline New Member
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    I can relate to you, for me, it was norcos after a severe injury, and then it quickly went to percs, thanks to the u.s.army healthcare system who overprescribe it like a bandaid, but anyways thats another story, ocs, morphine you name it, ending it 100mcgs of fentanyl patches every 72hrs and 6-8 perc tens a day for breakthru pain, all that and I am only 34yrs of age and this is 3yrs after the orginal injury. Trust me I know how horrible withdrawals can be, and even came to a point where I no longer feared them and reseigned myself to them as part of this horrible cycle I had become trapped in as I ran out of my meds each month due to trying to self medicate. Opiates are not the problem, they are wonderful, for a long time they took away my pain. Unfortunately due to my metabolism and the nature of the medication, I had to take more and more to ease the pain as my tolerance grew. They can be horrible when we stay on them after they outlive their usefullness and self-medicate. It can wreck our whole lives as many on here are aware of. Again, I don't blame the pills, the drs, for my poor choices or situations, although their are negligent drs, drs, are people after all, and I hold pharmaceutical companies in poor regard. At anyrate I may be able to help you without the use of subs, methadone or any other opiate replacement therapy that has been mentioned. It helped me almost instantly, miraculously, with something available over the counter and in most peoples medicine cabinents. I kicked myself when I realized I had it through the countless withdrawals I had went through. This is not a gimmick or scam, I don't PROMISE, or GUARANTEE you anything, just saying that I MAY be able to help you, it helped me almost hundred percent, although I don't think anything works 100 percent. I was able to function and take care of my family, which for me was the biggest obstacle and fear I had about stopping. If you would like for me to share my experience with you, feel free to contact on me, either way, good luck and God bless, Melissa
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  8. #8
    punkygirl13 is offline New Member
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    Cant sleep...literally just rocking back n forth right now. trying to keep my hands busy. Cold sweats are in full force. I think back to when I first started and how I never pictured this, as I am sure none of us did. I was a good girl...I mean good girl to a fault. never understood holding grudges, never wanted to be mean, always putting others first. Never tried any drugs or drinking. I hate alcohol. Plus my father was an alcoholic as was his sister and mother. So I knew I had addictive genes.

    Then the surgeries started. First tooth problems, then gall bladders, then appendix, then tonsils...I have every non essential organ gone. It wasnt until the appendix that I even knew people took this stuff for fun. I recalled my pain being done after the first dy but here I had like 15 pills left (wow that would only get me through one day...wow) so I figured what the hay lets take one for fun. Gave one to my husband and a few others. Then lost the rest...have no clue what happened but might have even threw them out.

    But I remembered how much fun it was so the next month was my wedding anniversary so I though HEY lets get some...no biggie right? Fast forward to now...BIG DEAL. When did this happen to me? When did I let this control my life?

  9. #9
    Kristi1220 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fentyful View Post
    I can relate to you, for me, it was norcos after a severe injury, and then it quickly went to percs, thanks to the u.s.army healthcare system who overprescribe it like a bandaid, but anyways thats another story, ocs, morphine you name it, ending it 100mcgs of fentanyl patches every 72hrs and 6-8 perc tens a day for breakthru pain, all that and I am only 34yrs of age and this is 3yrs after the orginal injury. Trust me I know how horrible withdrawals can be, and even came to a point where I no longer feared them and reseigned myself to them as part of this horrible cycle I had become trapped in as I ran out of my meds each month due to trying to self medicate. Opiates are not the problem, they are wonderful, for a long time they took away my pain. Unfortunately due to my metabolism and the nature of the medication, I had to take more and more to ease the pain as my tolerance grew. They can be horrible when we stay on them after they outlive their usefullness and self-medicate. It can wreck our whole lives as many on here are aware of. Again, I don't blame the pills, the drs, for my poor choices or situations, although their are negligent drs, drs, are people after all, and I hold pharmaceutical companies in poor regard. At anyrate I may be able to help you without the use of subs, methadone or any other opiate replacement therapy that has been mentioned. It helped me almost instantly, miraculously, with something available over the counter and in most peoples medicine cabinents. I kicked myself when I realized I had it through the countless withdrawals I had went through. This is not a gimmick or scam, I don't PROMISE, or GUARANTEE you anything, just saying that I MAY be able to help you, it helped me almost hundred percent, although I don't think anything works 100 percent. I was able to function and take care of my family, which for me was the biggest obstacle and fear I had about stopping. If you would like for me to share my experience with you, feel free to contact on me, either way, good luck and God bless, Melissa
    Melissa, so can you tell us what it is that you used?

  10. #10
    Fentyful is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi1220 View Post
    Melissa, so can you tell us what it is that you used?
    I am so sorry, I hadn't seen there had been a reply to this thread in a few days, and trust me I know in the world of opiate withdrawal, it can be a lifetime already, and only a few hours has passed! For me it seemed at times as if time was going backwards. Ok, this is what "I" did, and it worked for me. I am by no means attempting to diagnose, or prescribe a treatment plan for anyone, again this is what I did. At the time, I was in such misery and agony I probably would have DONE ANYTHING to have gotten relief, so for me it was a good thing that I stumbled upon this info. I also by no means came up with this myself. I decided to google at home withdrawal remedies if you will, and this is what I finally came across. The reason I am stressing this, is I know there are some people out there who will say, oh that can be dangerous, or risky, cause problems etc. but what those same people don't seem to realize, which just baffles me, is they are talking to those of use who put UNGODLY amounts of narcotics into our bodies, possibly mixed with other dangerous chemicals even, enough that would probably kill an elephant, so ya, I was willing to face those risks if it meant I got some relief from the suffering I was experiencing, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY if I could get out of the bed and take care of my children! That was the part I always hated the most, and you think all that guilt month after month would have stopped it, but I guess it is what it is.
    Ok so here goes, I stumbled upon what many have reffered to as "poor man's methodone". It's something most people have in their medicine cabinents even! Despite my medical background, it never even dawned on me thru countless withdrawals to consider it, even though I was aware that it was an actual opiate. I'm not sure for one that most people realize that, and two, if they do, there are a few reason's why most people will overlook it. One of those is, immodium, while bearing a structurally similiarity to demerol, does not readily, or easily cross the blood brain barrier, which is crucial in order to feel the euphoria, sedation and respitory depression that occurs with most other opiates. More about this later, but for now that synoposis is sufficient for our purposes. It does however react with some of the other many opiate receptors located throughout our bodies, the majority not residing in the brain, but a significant amount in our gastriointestinal and digestive tracts, which is why and what it is most oftenly used for, its constipating properties. Another reason it is not a common concern is due to the low dosage availabilities. Immodium, or it's generic formulary lopermide hcl, typical comes in liquid or 2 mg capsules, with typical dosing guidelines of 2 to 4 mg at the onset of diarrhea, and 2 mg after each additional loose bowel movement, with I believe not to excede 8 doses in a 24 hour time frame. Upon reading article, blog, post and studies, that many people had found SIGNIFICANT relief of symptoms ranging from none, to almost complete relief, with the average falling somewhere into significant relief, I decided to try it, understanding and believing the "science" behind it, along with supplementing it with tagamet/cimetidine, a now sold over the counter antacid, which is in a class of meds known as h2 blockers. Chemistry and properties of cimetidine is known to interact with almost all narcotics, pontentiating it's their effects due to the way it works in the body. It also helps it to cross the blood brain barrier easier due to this process, which is not neccesary to understand in order for it work I didn't figure I had much to lose, and I was well aware of the risks, of taking the amount suggested for the effects and relief I was seeking to alleviate opiate withdrawal symptoms. A lot of people were stating they were taking around 96 mgs, which would have been 48 capsules, or liquid doses of 2 mgs. ME PERSONALLY, I was willing to start out with that amount, fearing what it would most likely do to my intestinal tract, even if it worked lol. I had no desire to trade one set of symptoms, for a possibly more painful and humiliating issue of fecal impaction, although with the amount of narcotics I had already been consuming, this could have been a risk regardless, and was easily solved for myself with aids such as glycerin supposotories and Mirolax, a gentle an easy non-stimulant laxative. Now, armed with this info and the supplies I needed, I decided to start out with one 200mg dose of tagamet and 8 capsules of 2 mg doses of immodium. I planned to take an additional 8 a few hours later, bringing the total mgs to 32, if I did not find a noticable or bearable reduction in symptoms.
    Now let me tell you this is the God's honest truth. Within a relatively short amount of time, I can't remember exactly but it was prior to the alloted few hours I gave myself, I noticed A DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT in symptoms. I did not have any additional sneezing, hot/cold flashes, sweats, goosebumps, aches, or loose stools (obviously), I WAS ALSO ABLE TO SLEEP a full 6 to 8 hrs and I was simply BLOWN AWAY. I understood then right then and there why it was called poor man's methadone. I also IMMEDIATELY started reeling, kicking myself mentally again and again, for not only all the times I had went through this hell, and to hell and back out trying to procure more opiates, but also for the TONS of money I had thrown away, if I had known relief was either in the other room in a cabinent, or a short drive away!!! I felt like I had been hit with an ephinany or something, divine revelation, and I immediately attempted to contact my "rx" and "script" friends, pill feigns to tell them of my new found miracle! The funny thing is, they all reacted as if I was crazy, and were like, yeah ok, that's nice. For myself however, as I was going around, actually cleaning my house, taking care of my kids like normal, 24 hrs, 2, 3 and even 4 days, after my last 150mg a day dose of opiates, I was just in awe that I could possibly be doing that well. I also remembered many of the bargaining prayers I had offered up to God, that if He would help me get through another withdrawal without suffering as much, that this would be the time I actually gave them up for good. I considered this a much needed sign. Now I will say, it did take a little adjustment at first "mentally", as this combination provided neither a euphoria or buzz, I just simply felt similiar to what I had felt years before becoming opiate dependant, and was like, hmm this is what "normal" must be like. I also had to deal with the pain of my injury, but it was very managable with ibuprofen and nsaids as well. After 3 days, as someone else had stated in their experience in my research, I was able to produce a bowel movement as well, using the previously mentioned laxative aids. So there you have it. Crazy sounding, perhaps, doubtful, I'm sure. Like I mentioned, even though I knew in theory it could work, when you have been in that kind of agony, and numerous times at that, it is very difficult to think that anything can end your suffering short of....well, I guess I can think of a few possible means, short of another narcotic opiate. This is just a brief telling of my story, and I am not telling anyone that they should or shouldn't try it. Myself, I wasn't and still am not willing to use methadone, bupe, or any insanely long half-life opiate to ever again deal with opiate withdrawal or my chronic pain management issues. This worked for me, and I don't guarantee or promise it will for everyone. Myself, at that point, I didn't have much to lose in some respects, yet I had EVERYTHING to lose in others if I did not get through it and pull it together. I had my kids, and my family depending on me, and I just couldn't take it. I also forgot to admit, I used a tapering schedule of dropping 2mgs every day or other day, as tolerated, and stretching out my dosing times. If you need more info, fee free to ask and I truly pray and hope my story helps someone else. You also don't have to take my words, "google" it, and find as much research on it as you can, and make your own, "informed" and best-educated decision based on your circumstances and situation. Thank you and God bless for allowing me to share with you.

  11. #11
    Fentyful is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by punkygirl13 View Post
    Cant sleep...literally just rocking back n forth right now. trying to keep my hands busy. Cold sweats are in full force. I think back to when I first started and how I never pictured this, as I am sure none of us did. I was a good girl...I mean good girl to a fault. never understood holding grudges, never wanted to be mean, always putting others first. Never tried any drugs or drinking. I hate alcohol. Plus my father was an alcoholic as was his sister and mother. So I knew I had addictive genes.

    Then the surgeries started. First tooth problems, then gall bladders, then appendix, then tonsils...I have every non essential organ gone. It wasnt until the appendix that I even knew people took this stuff for fun. I recalled my pain being done after the first dy but here I had like 15 pills left (wow that would only get me through one day...wow) so I figured what the hay lets take one for fun. Gave one to my husband and a few others. Then lost the rest...have no clue what happened but might have even threw them out.

    But I remembered how much fun it was so the next month was my wedding anniversary so I though HEY lets get some...no biggie right? Fast forward to now...BIG DEAL. When did this happen to me? When did I let this control my life?
    Punky, although I'm sure the question was rhetorical, I just wanted to say, it happens.....to the least of us and the greatest, no one is immune to such things. That being said, not many are fighters or survivors. You made it this far, and I believe as myself and many others have, that you can do this. Just as if you can't not believe looking back where you got to today, you can also look back to here and not believe how far you've came, and really, really not believe it got to that, as you are living a totally new, clear and "unaltered" life again. It is very easy in the situation you find yourself in and many, of us have been through, to over analyze this, beat ourselves up, and before you know it, it can turn into convincing ourselves we don't deserve to clean up, or we such failures, why not just accept it and deal with it, opiate style. Does that make sense? I believe you should be proud of putting yourself through what many dare not, and do anything to avoid, robbing and even killing in order to escape this self-induced hell many of us have subjected ourselves to over and over, not fully believing or realizing there is something more on the other side, there is a way through this and more beyond this. I am sorry you are where you are, I hope my experience or words might prove to be useful somehow, and I will pray for you as well, as I know my Father's help certainly and infinitely is, take care, and good luck!

  12. #12
    JayOmatic is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatsman444 View Post
    Welcome Punkygirl . Its a big step to face Day 1 . You can do this for sure. Its about seven days of bad stuff. Just think of it as a bad case of the flu . Sick as a dog for a week and not much that can be done about it. I know that sounds harsh . The prize is worth the battle. What other choice do you have? With the dose you were on , it will not be a good outcome. So switch that fear of WD to fear of what comes if you keep using. Keep your eye on the freedom that you want. If you get past the first week you will get a glimpse or two of the way you used to think so clearly. When you get those brain zaps of clarity it is easy to feed off of. You will want that feeling more and more. Just like you wanted the pills more and more. The feelings of clarity will come with every passing day. Its liberating when they come and they do come. Peace
    Thank you for this post!!!

  13. #13
    JayOmatic is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fentyful View Post
    Punky, although I'm sure the question was rhetorical, I just wanted to say, it happens.....to the least of us and the greatest, no one is immune to such things. That being said, not many are fighters or survivors. You made it this far, and I believe as myself and many others have, that you can do this. Just as if you can't not believe looking back where you got to today, you can also look back to here and not believe how far you've came, and really, really not believe it got to that, as you are living a totally new, clear and "unaltered" life again. It is very easy in the situation you find yourself in and many, of us have been through, to over analyze this, beat ourselves up, and before you know it, it can turn into convincing ourselves we don't deserve to clean up, or we such failures, why not just accept it and deal with it, opiate style. Does that make sense? I believe you should be proud of putting yourself through what many dare not, and do anything to avoid, robbing and even killing in order to escape this self-induced hell many of us have subjected ourselves to over and over, not fully believing or realizing there is something more on the other side, there is a way through this and more beyond this. I am sorry you are where you are, I hope my experience or words might prove to be useful somehow, and I will pray for you as well, as I know my Father's help certainly and infinitely is, take care, and good luck!
    This also is helping me today!!

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    Fentyful is offline New Member
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    I'm glad it helps. Here if you need to talk. Hope all is well and you will be in my prayers! Melissa

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    oxytired is offline New Member
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    Hi Fentyful,

    Can you be a little more specific with your dosing scheduling? I am tapering down from a 360 mg oxycodone habit. I am down to 180mg and plan on jumping off when I am at 90mg using the Thomas recipe. I would appreciate if you could be more specific on how often you took the immodium and tagamet and your specific doses. I am sooo scared of making the jump because I just can't handle that feeling of crawling out of my skin...I will also try to have some klonidine and valium on hand to help me get through it...

  16. #16
    Fentyful is offline New Member
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    oxy, sure. I apologize for such a delay in responding, I know 6 days can be a long time when you need help with this problem, and are in a bad/scarey spot. I am very tired tonite, but If I get a second wind in a bit, I will go into detail, otherwise I will lay it all out for you how it's worked amazingly well for me, ashamedly many times......However can't do much about the past except learn, and hopefully help people which I would like to do. I just can't think to quick tonite as I am very exhausted. Best of luck to you and will keep you in my prayers. Will look forward to chatting tomorrow if you get this. Melissa
    minivin likes this.

  17. #17
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by punkygirl13 View Post
    Cant sleep...literally just rocking back n forth right now. trying to keep my hands busy. Cold sweats are in full force. I think back to when I first started and how I never pictured this, as I am sure none of us did. I was a good girl...I mean good girl to a fault. never understood holding grudges, never wanted to be mean, always putting others first. Never tried any drugs or drinking. I hate alcohol. Plus my father was an alcoholic as was his sister and mother. So I knew I had addictive genes.

    Then the surgeries started. First tooth problems, then gall bladders, then appendix, then tonsils...I have every non essential organ gone. It wasnt until the appendix that I even knew people took this stuff for fun. I recalled my pain being done after the first dy but here I had like 15 pills left (wow that would only get me through one day...wow) so I figured what the hay lets take one for fun. Gave one to my husband and a few others. Then lost the rest...have no clue what happened but might have even threw them out.

    But I remembered how much fun it was so the next month was my wedding anniversary so I though HEY lets get some...no biggie right? Fast forward to now...BIG DEAL. When did this happen to me? When did I let this control my life?
    Hey Punkygirl, been there and it is miserable. I was on hydrocodone 10s for years Rxed by the VA for an injury on active duty. Went on subs about 9 months ago now off the subs. Coming off the subs was worse than the wd on hydrocodone. Keep the desire to be drug free that is most important. One has to want recovery and to be sober.
    None of us think in the beginning that it can get as bad as it does. It isn't a career decision, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief oh I want to be an addict. It happens.
    Try to avoid self critisim that just makes things worse.Hang in there it will pass
    you can do this Surfdog

  18. #18
    minivin is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fentyful View Post
    oxy, sure. I apologize for such a delay in responding, I know 6 days can be a long time when you need help with this problem, and are in a bad/scarey spot. I am very tired tonite, but If I get a second wind in a bit, I will go into detail, otherwise I will lay it all out for you how it's worked amazingly well for me, ashamedly many times......However can't do much about the past except learn, and hopefully help people which I would like to do. I just can't think to quick tonite as I am very exhausted. Best of luck to you and will keep you in my prayers. Will look forward to chatting tomorrow if you get this. Melissa
    Would like to say thank you for the post and info you have been sharing on all of your post Fentyful.It really means alot,i am in hopes of getting off this 100mcg fentanyl patch and looked onto your profile and read about the over the counter method,i really need to be able to function while going through this,you give me alot of hope,i have to take care of my wife who is paralyzed and in a wheelchair and thats my biggest worry,i have got to be there for her,thank you again...

  19. #19
    minivin is offline Member
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    I only would like to ask Fentyful about how many days did you continue with the use of the over the counter stuff before you felt you were ready to stop taking it ?Did you have to take more than once a day or as needed?Any other details would be really appreciated...Thank you again...

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