| || |
My ship is sinking....Someone throw me a LIFESAVER....
Ok, I'm ready to do this... Wait a minute..I can't do it today(insert excuse here)...I'll start tomorrow...When I have enough to taper..That's when I'll start...No do it now...Ok..I'm ready...Wait.. just until these are gone...Then I'll just give cold turkey a try..If other people can do it why shouldn't I be able to..I can do this..I'm ready...1...2...3 Go...Wait I don't think I can do this....
Ok, so I have been on here for two days reading...Questions...Answers...Journal threads...I want to do this so bad...But do I really want to do this? Yes! I do....I have to do this...
Right now I am just writing what pops into my head... I have never REALLY talked to anyone about this...I have admitted my problem to few in my life that frankly cannot even begin to understand it. Everyone just looks at me with a blank stare as if to be saying "why can't you just NOT take them...Just STOP...I have tried to explain it to the best of my ability and there's not a way to describe it so that a person that has never done it would understand...
A little back story before a few questions, inturrupted by some venting (I'm sure)...
Until the last two years I never thought of taking pills as an addiction...As a matter of fact when I came to the realization that I was in fact addicted to them I looked back through many of the years passed and came to the conclusion that I had been addicted without knowledge and MADE IT THROUGH THE WITHDRAWS ALIVE without EVER EVEN KNOWING...WHAT?? Yeah...Never. Even. Knew. I wish I could go back to those days...
In retrospect, for the better part of the last TEN years of my 27 years of life I have been taking Vicodin (a couple years at a time) and I never had the slightest clue there was ever a problem...Then one day..It hit me...I began to start feeling panicky when I was down to 10 or 12...I wouldn't go on trips without making sure I had at least enough to get me through the entire trip....I didn't like drinking at ALL anymore...And I couldn't even function if I didn't have one when I woke up in the morning...I ALWAYS thought this addiction thing was all in your head...Mind over matter and all that spiritual jargon...I know that plays a MAJOR role in it and all...But FEAR and the physical aspects of this whole mess is my problem..See, then that takes me back to the mind over matter..because if I wouldn't allow my (medicated) mind to control my actions then well this matter would be far easier to conquer...Right? I don't know...I don't know a lot of things going in to this... But most of all I don't know how to get my mind to shut the $@%& up...So that's why I'm here... I'm hoping that somehow some way that someone will be more convincing to my mind than the pills and I are...Because I'm getting fed up...
I have been through a lot of $h!% in this lifetime...I have lived through house fires...losing alot of my very very closest family members..Including but not limited to my mother (who passed away after losing a battle against breast cancer).and having three children starting at 16 years old...Among more misfit sorts of crazyness...And nothing of the sort has ever held such a grip on me as this....I am not shameful throughout this process, as I feel that the very people who were supposed to take care of me led me here...I do not blame anyone but me for being WHERE I am in this..Yet I am fully certain that if I had not gotten prescription after prescription after prescription that I wouldn't be out on this sinking ship in the middle of the ocean without any land in sight, or a life raft....
So here is where I'm at right now...I have 19 pills 10/325....and I want to hold on to them as long as I can or take the smallest amount I can get away with (currently I am at 5 to 7 on a good day)...What got me to this site in the first place is my inquiring about Suboxone (which I had taken once before 2mg one time when my script was out and a friend had one) I typed it in to the search engine in attempt to find a doctor somewhere in my area that dealt with it...and there is ONE...ONE doctor in 60 miles of my area.. Who is all full and not accepting new patients...Unless you go to 5 consecutive meetings...Which would be a beautiful thing..If I could...But I don't have ANY support for this...I have three kids and the place is an hour away...As well as something like 300$...I'm not sure...The money isn't the issue as much as that I cannot let my significant other find this out...(I know that presents an entire new thread of problems to discuss..but for now I'll just leave it at that I cannot tell him...I won't tell him...I'm not ashamed..I'm not overthinking it...I just can't...It's not an option...and that is something I would respectfully not even like to talk about....For now...)
I really just don't even know what to do...I don't know where to start...Maybe I just need someone to talk to..Maybe I will just jump...I don't know...But I need something here...This ship is heavy..and it is sinking quickly...My biggest fear is drowning..and I've seen far to many men take their lives over these stupid pills JUST this year...Anyone with any advice or help...I would love some help...And would be very grateful...Right now its sink or swim...
Trying, you could attempt to taper or go ct. If you go the ct route you can expect symptoms like a bad case of the flu. The desire to get clean is extremely important, need to doesn't work it has to be want to. You are dealing with a disease not weakness of character. There have been changes in brain chemistry, due to the opiates. From what you say you are taking a relatively low dose so cutting back then finishing up ct may be an option.
Few if any unless they have been there are going to understand to tell an addict "just stop" is like telling someone with major depression to "just snap out of it" doesn't happen that way. To stop now would be great, if you continue it is going to get worse, tolerance will increase, as will craving until it completely controls your life. I can promise you this is worth the effort. Dog
I would suggest that the first place to turn would be some NA, AA or CR (Celebrate Recovery) meetings. It is 'ok' to attend these meetings while using; all they ask is that you have the "desire to stop." Keep an open mind and listen. If you don't like what you hear, try another meeting. The best foundation for recovery is found in these 12-step groups.
To find meetings:
Suboxone is not essential to stop the pills. In fact, at your level of drug use, it would probably be better to NOT use the suboxone; it isn't necessary. Millions of us have detoxed directly off the pills, without subs. It's like having a bad flu for about 5 days. IF you are able to taper down your use before you stop, the withdrawal symptoms won't be as bad.
You only have to do this ONCE. Then get yourself hooked up with some 12-step meetings, and you'll develop the tools you need to manage life clean and sober. There is no perfect time for it. Sometimes, even when we're half-hearted, once we stop, the motivation increases with each passing day, as we're encouraged by our progress.
Feel free to continue to post here for support. We can't do this alone.
You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.
Ruth's and Dog's advice is good advice. Hit NA and find some support there. However, do not take the sub for only 50-70 mg. of hydrocodone. It's a whole new set of problems. Besides, by the time you are in w/d enough to begin suboxone, you will be half-way or better to recovery. You can c/t using the Thomas Recipe, or you can taper using the Thomas Recipe. But like dog said what we need and what we want are two different things: You have to want to get clean and getting off of the hydrocodone now is never going to be any easier. Keep Posting! W/D sucks, but it won't kill you and like Ruth says: there is no "perfect" time.
Well, first of all, I think that's a great first step that you're reaching out for help here and willing to admit you have a problem. That's one of the hardest things to do. But, I do think you're probably going to need some outside assistance in dealing with this-as hard as that may be to do. And, I thought Ruth had some good suggestions-in particular I've heard great things about the Celebrate Recovery programs. Of course, I know it's hard if you want to stay anonymous in dealing with these issues. So, maybe you'd be interested in giving the counselors at Focus on the Family a call (1/855-771-HELP). I work there so I know it's free of charge and they might be able to help you get started with your recovery. So, just know someone out there can talk with you when you're feeling like you're drowing. Lastly, if you're a reader, I've heard of a book called The Last Addiction: Why Self-Help Is Not Enough by Sharon Hersh that you might want to look into. I think it addresses a lot of what you've been feeling and struggling with. So, maybe you could find it online or at the library? Well, please know someone out there is praying for you. I hope you'll reach out for help...
Thank you very much for your replies...I do appreciate you taking your time to read my BOOKS..As I know that's what it is going to be...For my need to tell you every detail that pops in my head...If I babble I'm sorry..But I do want this SOOOOOOOO badly...I really do...I want to meet the normal me again...The one who doesn't scream and have crazy mood swings...The one who doesn't ever have to pop a pill again...My NEED to stop has stemmed from the fact that I have began to devolp a liver issue....Which I am suprised to say I haven't seen more of on these forums...I got my gall bladder out a year and a half ago and since then every month or so I will get an extremely annoying feeling in my liver..I feel out of body because I get so scared that I am going to die and then I feel 'full' and my liver feels swollen..And its almost as if I can feel the food and drinks passing through it...I have been to my doctor for it..I had a liver biopsy...which the doctor concluded that I had a little bit of a rounded liver and a tiny bit of yellowing...but said that after a few bags of fluids and a few days in the hospital I would go back to normal...and I did...until I got home again and got my self medication on for awhile...Then I was right back at the problem again...So when I say I NEED to stop I don't mean that I need to quit for my family or so that my spouse doesn't find out..I meant I need to quit because I'm so scared I'm going to croke...And wouldn't you say that should be enough reason to effing stop? No...Guess not...So I get what you're saying..Doesn't matter how bad you need to you have to make your mind up that you want to...And I know that my doses are far smaller than many out there...Which is exactly why I came here...Because just over the passed two months I have increased my doses by nearly double because of not feeling them anymore...And this to me is what is scaring the ???? out of me because I didn't even really notice I was doing it...I told myself ok well going from one to one and a half wont really bother you...now I take two when I wake up...one an hour later.. one and a half two hours later.. then one and a half two hours later...and then I NORMALLY don't take anymore until maybe 7 at night and that's when it has been several hours and I start to feel tingly...Now if I am with my spouse all day..Which I usually am not because he works ALL the time...Then I am taking them much more like one and a half every two hours or less (because my brain says...You NEED to be in a good mood while you're with him) so I tell myself JUST THIS ONCE...Yeah Ok....As of now for the passed three days I have been taking them one and a half at a time as far spread out as I can force myself to take them..I have already began to feel the rls and mood swings...I will most definatly look into the resources you have provided me with...and I will take in everything you have to offer me...I am going to look in to the resources right now...And get this thing started...
Thank you all again, so much! I also forgot to add that I will stay away from the Suboxone...I had been reading elsewhere that where I am in this it would be switching problems if I started it, but after reading so many of all of your posts about the induction and taper I thought it could be a good idea..mostly because I'm scared and trying for the easy way...But if you're all here to stay then I am going to slow my dose use the methods and then jump...And another question I had was...Can you bring someone with you..Like lets say I wanted my friend to come with me to the meeting..Is that allowed...Because then maybe I could tell the significant that I am going to support her...(she also takes them, which he knows, but she won't admit that she is dependent even to herself yet)
Trying, I know you said you DON'T want to discuss your spouse/SO, but I have to say, it probably is not a good idea for you to be in a position where you might have to pretend to be helping your friend with her addiction in order for YOU to get the help and support you need! I don't want to make you feel bad AT ALL, please know that. If you have already been hospitalized for issues with your liver, I think you simply must tell your partner what's going on with your addiction...it was hard for me to tell my husband that I was abusing Trams and wanted to be free of them, but you know what? He knew I had a problem all along, and was so
supportive of me when I decided to stop using my DOC...You don't have to even respond to my post, I just really wanted to give you my advice...all the best to you!
If it is an open meeting yes you can take someone, the only requirement is a desire to stop using. Listen for quality of sobriety, it will show. And your right one has to want to get clean Dog
The only one we deceive, is ourselves Dog
Originally Posted by Sunny mom
If you are only on 50-70 mg. of hydrocodone, it would be worthless to use suboxone. I know you're scared: you have a crutch with the vikes. They're always there when you feel stressed, depressed, or just simply "there". It's scary to give them up, that's probably the hardest part at first is to say good-bye to your first love: hydro. That's because these drugs wrap us around in our minds with the "gotta haves". The reason the suboxone is worthless is because you have to score a 26 or more on the COWS worksheet. By the time you get to that point in your w/d you're half way home, maybe more! Why get yourself dependent on another drug when you don't have to. suboxone is way way way stronger than 10mg. hydrocodone.It's like killing a fly with a sledgehammer. Tell someone: Tell your doc no more prescriptions of opiods. Go to a meeting, NA, CR whatever. Your liver problems show how truly life or death addiction is. Not only that, you will find the "old you" again! You CAN do this. You are getting some way good advice from the people here! Keep posting.
I said I didn't want to discuss only because like the addiction people don't understand people when they say that they KNOW it wouldn't turn out to be positive...You got lucky to have someone SOO understanding...A few years back someone told him I was taking them...And he FLIPPED out..He is against drugs he is against alcohol...He is one of those people that REALLY doesn't understand...And he is all about tough love..Well if I am mean enough to her she will get it...And no I won't get it because until now I have thought I CAN'T stop...And what I need right now is support..And I'm not positive but I think I put up there that I don't have anyone...He is alll I've got...And when I say ALL I've got I mean him threse three kids of mine and my ONE friend I mentioned are LITERALLY all I've got...NO family NO friends...And another reason I said I didn't want to discuss it is because it takes it to a whole other place...Like I have ALOT of things that I need fixed...But I don't feel like I can even begin to fix ANY of those things until I get passed this....You have no idea how much I yearn for someone to hold me while I detox...Or tell me you know what lady it sux that this happened but WE can get through it TOGETHER...I don't have that...I wish I did...And trust me I have ALMOST told him MANY times and just delt with it...Then a huge fight happens where custody is thrown in my face...And he brings up how a girl said she could get proof that I was abusing pain medication...That has always been my sign to keep it in and TRY to kill this habbit myself....So, like you said in your situation, he likely has some sort of Idea deep down...But Right now I can't tell him...And risk losing the only thing I do have... I thank you for your kind advice...I don't even know where to start in this mess... And now I'm starting to get depressed...I need something to do....What o what can I do...I took 1 and a half of these this am at 11...I'm hot...And I'm really trying...
Trying: You are posting to the right place for support. You will get that here. I wish I could help you through the w/d, I really do. The only thing I can do is post here and listen to what you say, no matter what. You can get through this. Tell him you have the flu, don't feel good, whatever. I know how hard it is to let go, really really think about going to NA. Dogs idea to find someone with substantial clean time to help you is a good one. I understand why you can't tell you husband. Some people do not understand that addiction is a disease. Some people, their brain chemistry is actually altered, that's why our heads mess with us so much when we want to quit. You can kill this habit yourself: Go to need to talk and post in that forum, there are people there who kicked on their own, went to work like nothing was going on and got off these. There is so much support on the boards! Start a thread in Need to Talk, there are a group of people going through what you are now with hydrocodone and supporting each other. I will support you, I've been there, too, but by myself no one else to be concerned about. What do you think about doing a c/t? Or tapering the few that you have? You will get through this, and you never have to do it again. Let me know how you are.
Last edited by iloerose; 07-13-2012 at 06:47 PM.
Trying, I am so sorry that you are having such a hard time...I wish that I could just magically make it all better for you, I really do. I think it's imperative for you to get into a NA group, and get yourself a good sponsor with substantial clean time as Dog and Rose said. I think it will make world of difference...you want this, it sounds obvious, so don't let ANYONE stop you...it's great you have your friend to support you, and yes, this board is a wonderful tool, use it as much as possible. Please keep posting and take good care.
Originally Posted by TryingToGetItRight
You asked for a lifesaver - and we threw you our BEST one - the 12 step programs, NA, AA or CR. But you don't want to use that lifesaver. You're still treading water frantically, and waiting for another lifesaver to come. We don't have a "Plan B" for recovery. There isn't an alternative that can give you the kind of help that a 12 step program can give you.
This disease is a monster, and it will consume every aspect of your life if you don't stop. However you can, get yourself to meetings - behind his back, with his knowledge, or lying about your "friend" - you need to be there. The tools of recovery and endless support is available.
Your husband may or may not know on some level. If you are taking this many pills, I should think it shows clearly in your eyes. But our loved ones have their own denial. They don't see what they don't want to see. They lie to themselves, just as we lie to ourselves. But this is your very life we're speaking of, not just some pesky problem that you can either live with or not. You need to tackle it head-on.
As addicts, control is an illusion. We simply can not control our drug use with any predictability. Your liver is in jeopardy. Each time you take a pill, you're basically poisoning yourself. This disease is progressive; that means, it never reverses itself, it only gets worse. You need to heed the warning signs and take action NOW.
IF I were to relapse, there's no doubt my husband would be angry, hurt and disappointed. He'd probably give me the cold shoulder for a while. BUT - he is my partner, as is yours. He made a commitment "for better, for worse" - and I know he'd come through for me. He'd have to get past his own feelings, but he'd be there. You're assuming your husband won't - and you could be mistaken. You may be judging him too harshly. If you are honest, humble and ready to seek help - that should make a huge difference to him. [That's different from hearing gossip about you, that got him angry.] When we keep such big secrets from the person we love, we're keeping walls between us. Getting through this together may very well bring the two of you closer.
There is so much help available - and so much hope for your future. I pray you'll seize the "lifesaver" and hang on. We'll be here. This forum does give some support, but it isn't nearly what you'll find in a 12-step group. I wish you all the best.
You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.
I've been reading, but not all of them, the reply's you're getting and am feeling many different emotions right now. About 5 days ago I began my taper and it's uncomfortable, downright miserable but much easier to take than full WD's.
I myself have been taking fentanyl and dilaudid now for over 10 years (not as prescribed) I've been an IV user. For me to detox ct i have seizures, projectile vomiting along with everything else that goes with it. I've detoxed so many times that now when my body notices the slightest drop in med it begins an immediate antihisamine response with sneezing uncontrollably and I know I'm fixing to go thru hell.. So after all these years, the intensity of my WD's have increased right along with my tolerance.
It will take me at least 1 to 1 1/2 months to clean up. I feel a determination now I've never felt before because all my family and friends know about me and my "little" problem. HA. This is the biggest thing I've ever faced.
I guess what I want to say is hydro will be rough to dt from and if you do it now it will not take so long.
Or you can wait until your tolerance is so far up there that it could possibly kill you. and yes there are people that have died doing this.
Your partner in life is going to know at some point what has been going on. He can get the truth from you or find out when he learns you need a new liver. I'm sure he would want to know what caused yours to stop working.
I wish us both the best of luck. I don't know why it has taken me so long to get here to my own taper and then to the Thomas recipe but this is what I'm going to do. I cannot tell you when the last day I felt alive was. My last 10 years has been my "bottom" I suppose but I've found this recipe and 1 person willing to stand by and help me thru it. I have no friends or family left.
Everything we do is by choice and I am sick of my life today and want to stop the insanity and I'm the only one that can do that. I hope you do well and do it ASAP.
Was coming to mention the "for better or worse" vow at marriage. But Ruth knocked it out of the park in the previous post above^^. Listen to her. She knows what she is talking about. Your husband will be your biggest asset in this battle if he is truly your "significant" other. Good luck girl
Hi my name is Adam, i'm an addict
"Do you have another day 1 in you?"
“If I can't win what sense does it make to fight?”
Do tomorrow what you did today, you get tomorrow what you got today
Clean as of 05.30.2014 (4:00pm CST)
Hello Trying...I hope you'll post again soon and let us know how you're doing...I was SO hoping that Ruth would post to you, I was sure she would and she didn't disappoint! I know you're overwhelmed but I think that for now, just proceed with finding a meeting to go to (with/for your friend, whatever it takes)...reach out for that lifesaver. Take heart that really good, decent people here, like Comeback, are successfully recovering and living their lives in ways they didn't think were possible. Lots of caring people here who will be pulling for you.
One more thing that might help. This is a post I made to explain some things about addiction: http://www.drugs.com/forum/need-talk...ion-58760.html
Addiction is a disease, not a sign of depravity or moral weakness. The American Medical Association recognizes it as a "disease." I heard this a lot when I first got clean, but was so consumed with guilt and shame for my drug use. I felt like claiming it was a disease sounded like a lame excuse. Then, in treatment, I learned about one of the aspects of this disease - that made sense to me. Try to read this post (above) about THIQ all the way through - and see if it gives you any idea of what we're dealing with, as addicts. Then, it may help to share it with your husband. Print it off for him to read. Maybe, just maybe, he'll look at this disease a little differently - and realize that you aren't "bad" or "weak" to become addicted; you're human. You were born with a genetic tendency toward addiction, and your chemistry has been working against you. There is an actual physical difference in us, as addicts. I found a great deal of relief - and forgiveness of myself - learning about this.
PS... Thank you Sunny and Comeback for the 'vote' of confidence... it was really nice to hear...
You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.
I'm in the same boat..
The hubby doesn't know..
And off and on for 10 years..
4 days ago I just said screw it..
I've been a ????? and unfortunately trying to cut the alcohol as well..
If you want this go CT!!
I'm not a doctor I just know that's all I can do..
Do you have a family practice doctor you can talk to?
I am routing for you..
You can do this!!!