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dammit!!
  1. #1
    mauijim66 is offline New Member
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    Default dammit!!

    Im 44, been on methadone for 15 years (tried to kick my 4 year post op hydro addiction with it), the last 3 at 80 mg/day. Got serious -3, almost 4 months ago- about getting off. Tapered down my dropping 10mg every 10 days (i took tablets) until i started breakin em in half (5), then breakin THOSE in half (2.5). After at least two weeks at 2.5/day, i just stopped. That was (what?) 3-4 weeks ago.
    Heres the thing.. Ive been really depressed about alot of things lately. I was laid off 6 months ago, my business of ten years (a restaurant) struggles, my mortgage is so far behind that i KNOW foreclosure is just around the corner.... It goes on and on. And i dont FEEL good. I havent felt 'good' in so long..
    Ive had LOTS of thoughts about suicide, but ive got 4 kids, two parents that are the sweetest people ever... Im trapped.
    the smallest jobs seem to take so much out of me. I did a little work this morning at my store before it opened, then came home and crawled back into bed.
    So im sitting here feeling hopeless again, and, ok, enough rambling. i still had (have) a bunch of broken up M tablets. I took, i don't know, 15 mg or so about 10 minutes ago. i just wanted to try to feel good for a while. Dammit.
    I guess i just needed to spill to somebody. If you hung on till the end, thanks for listening.

  2. #2
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Hey Mauijim, good to have you on this board, aprox. 80% of addicted people are dually diagnosed the majority with clinical depression,also coming off of opiates or alcohol depression is part of the wd symptoms, Please do not give up!!! the people on this site do care and will do whatever they can to help.
    Have you seen your Dr, and have you ever been diagnosed with clinical depression? Symptomatic w/d depression will be a passing symptom, clinical depression will not pass and normally requires meds to control it. Suggest you see your Doc on both, if he is not well versed in depression, a shrink would be better, most GPs are not well trained in recognizing much less dianosing and treating depression.
    I do not remember the scales and scores for trauma but with the circumstances you describe your score would be WAY up there. Please hang in there all I can offer is support and suggestions but I and others on here will be there for you God Bless
    Surfdog

  3. #3
    mauijim66 is offline New Member
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    Hey dog. Thanks for that. One of my reasons for wanting to get off M was actually (im embarrassed to say) financial. I lost my insurance when i was laid off, and i just dint have the funds to visit drs. Its that bad. I know folks say "well, you cant put a price on health", but... I don't know.. I just dont have it and cant borrow it. Ive been treated for depression in the past, and i just never really felt like it made much of a difference. Im screwed up, man.
    haha i took one of those "you might have depression" kind of tests online a couple of weeks ago-- severe depression. Big suprise.
    Heres another log on the fire. Now, i know this will sound silly, but ive has HORRIBLE acne for the past two months. Ive had a pimple here or there since my teens, but nothing remotely like this. Maybe the combination of stresses on my body AND my mind? Whatever it is, it definitely contributes to my self-isolation. I dont want to be seen in public.
    Christ, i know this isnt a depression forum. I posted because i was pissed off at myself for giving in to temptation. Gd opiates. I shouldnt have done it, but this IS the first time im not feeling so feeble in the last few weeks. That lower GI stuff really saps a guy. Or it does me anyway.
    i feel good right now, but im feeling awfully guilty about it at the same time.

  4. #4
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauijim66 View Post
    Hey dog. Thanks for that. One of my reasons for wanting to get off M was actually (im embarrassed to say) financial. I lost my insurance when i was laid off, and i just dint have the funds to visit drs. Its that bad. I know folks say "well, you cant put a price on health", but... I don't know.. I just dont have it and cant borrow it. Ive been treated for depression in the past, and i just never really felt like it made much of a difference. Im screwed up, man.
    haha i took one of those "you might have depression" kind of tests online a couple of weeks ago-- severe depression. Big suprise.
    Heres another log on the fire. Now, i know this will sound silly, but ive has HORRIBLE acne for the past two months. Ive had a pimple here or there since my teens, but nothing remotely like this. Maybe the combination of stresses on my body AND my mind? Whatever it is, it definitely contributes to my self-isolation. I dont want to be seen in public.
    Christ, i know this isnt a depression forum. I posted because i was pissed off at myself for giving in to temptation. Gd opiates. I shouldnt have done it, but this IS the first time im not feeling so feeble in the last few weeks. That lower GI stuff really saps a guy. Or it does me anyway.
    i feel good right now, but im feeling awfully guilty about it at the same time.
    Hey Jim don't sweat it, man been got the scars. I don't know what city,state you live in but, there is always a way. The situation this economy is in, no need to be embarrassed. And you certainly do not sound silly. Is there any public service hospitals near you, with the depression issues you would qualify for treatment regardless of your ability to pay, they cannot by law refuse treatment, state mental health facilities fall in that catagory also.(can't type for sh@#) Just remember you are not in this alone. Let me hear from you God Bless Surfdog

  5. #5
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauijim66 View Post
    Im 44, been on methadone for 15 years (tried to kick my 4 year post op hydro addiction with it), the last 3 at 80 mg/day. Got serious -3, almost 4 months ago- about getting off. Tapered down my dropping 10mg every 10 days (i took tablets) until i started breakin em in half (5), then breakin THOSE in half (2.5). After at least two weeks at 2.5/day, i just stopped. That was (what?) 3-4 weeks ago.
    Heres the thing.. Ive been really depressed about alot of things lately. I was laid off 6 months ago, my business of ten years (a restaurant) struggles, my mortgage is so far behind that i KNOW foreclosure is just around the corner.... It goes on and on. And i dont FEEL good. I havent felt 'good' in so long..
    Ive had LOTS of thoughts about suicide, but ive got 4 kids, two parents that are the sweetest people ever... Im trapped.
    the smallest jobs seem to take so much out of me. I did a little work this morning at my store before it opened, then came home and crawled back into bed.
    So im sitting here feeling hopeless again, and, ok, enough rambling. i still had (have) a bunch of broken up M tablets. I took, i don't know, 15 mg or so about 10 minutes ago. i just wanted to try to feel good for a while. Dammit.
    I guess i just needed to spill to somebody. If you hung on till the end, thanks for listening.



    Dropping from 80mg of methadone to nothing in such a short time is no easy task. No wonder you are experiencing depression. Your natural endorphine production is non-existant, you are going to need a little time to feel better. But it will happen if you don't use.

    The best med for what you're experiencing is exercise. I don't mean running five miles, just pushing yourself physically as much as you can and that will do more than anything to get those endorphines going. Take good vitamins, try taking some L-Tyrosine w/vitamin B6 .... it comes in 500mg caps. You can take 1000mg a day and see how that helps you with energy. Trust me it will help.

    So many drs are ignorant about opiate detox. No one trying to get off hydrocodone has any business doing it with methadone to start with. That is like shooting a fly with a shotgun. Some pain drs are idiots. Wish I could have gotten with you before you started on methadone. Don't give up my friend, hang around here and you'll get support to help you get through this. Keep us posted how you're doing. God bless.
    surfdog likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    It will also help you to drink some good protein shakes, eat good food. We can pull you out of this hole you're in dude! Hang in there.
    dsac6060 likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    mauijim66 is offline New Member
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    Good god! Im really touched by the compassion. Heres where i am right now--
    My little experiment the day before yesterday definitely confirmed to me something that i thought highly unlikely: that the depression, malaise, fatigue, diarrhea, headaches, etc, has been NOTHING but wds. Six weeks after going from 5/day to 2.5/day, and THREE WEEKS after going to 0! Man, when i cracked and took that 15 or 20mg day before yesterday, i became a completely different person. Feeling good felt so good. But then today-- back to 'normal'... Runs all day, blah blah. Immodium time again. Its a good feeling to know exactly whats wrong, but its scary as hell because theres no telling how long its gonna last. Ive read that paws can last a year, and yeah, some folks NEVER get out of it.
    Robert, back in december, i got with this naturo-path dr in arizona that specializes in this stuff. He advised the same thing you did.. Tyrosine, protein shakes, and a few more. I took it religeously for a month or so while i was 'down-steppin'.. I stopped around the time i got to 5 or 2.5 because i thought i had it handled. I just picked up my bag to start eatin my vitamins again.
    Gd i cant BELIEVE this..
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  8. #8
    mauijim66 is offline New Member
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    I just cant believe these (sort of) wds are lasting this long. And im really worrying about how long they might last...

  9. #9
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauijim66 View Post
    I just cant believe these (sort of) wds are lasting this long. And im really worrying about how long they might last...
    Jim, right now you are experiencing acute wd, post acute are not as severe, get through this first, one thing at a time. You are not alone in this, Robert is more knowledgeable than about 90% of the docs out there, he will not steer wrong by any means. If it helps this is temporary and will pass, I know that doesn't help much now,just don't give up God Bless Surfdog

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Surfdog .... thanks for the kind words.


    Jim ... I am trying to get your dose down to a reasonable level before you find yourself in a real bind. You may have a rough day or two but we will be successful. They started you wrong, you have not done anything wrong yourself.

    Hang with me brother! We're in this together and I promise it will get better. I'll get you stable and then we can taper you down. Do you have access to an ambien or a klonopin? Just something to settle you down for a couple days. I don't want to see you taking more subs. Promise I'm trying to look out for your best interest. God bless.
    surfdog likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #11
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Surfdog .... thanks for the kind words.


    Jim ... I am trying to get your dose down to a reasonable level before you find yourself in a real bind. You may have a rough day or two but we will be successful. They started you wrong, you have not done anything wrong yourself.

    Hang with me brother! We're in this together and I promise it will get better. I'll get you stable and then we can taper you down. Do you have access to an ambien or a klonopin? Just something to settle you down for a couple days. I don't want to see you taking more subs. Promise I'm trying to look out for your best interest. God bless.
    Robert my son got the subs please respond thanks Surfdog

  12. #12
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
    Robert my son got the subs please respond thanks Surfdog


    Score him on the COWS worksheet first. Here is a link. Let me know what his score is since he has been taking opiates. Then we'll go from there. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/resources/opioi...wal-record.pdf
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #13
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Score him on the COWS worksheet first. Here is a link. Let me know what his score is since he has been taking opiates. Then we'll go from there. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/resources/opioi...wal-record.pdf
    thank you will get in done this am surfdog

  14. #14
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
    thank you will get in done this am surfdog
    Robert he is sucking it up and going to work today, as soon as he gets coming by and we will get the COWS done thanks & God Bless Surfdog

  15. #15
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
    Robert he is sucking it up and going to work today, as soon as he gets coming by and we will get the COWS done thanks & God Bless Surfdog



    Soon as I know his COWS score I can give you my best advice. I know he's been taking some opiates out of necessity for several days. We have to get those out of his system before putting him back on subs, at even a low dose, or he'll get so sick you won't even believe it. He may have to go until this evening or so depending on how he scores. I don't want to make him violently ill, I know that you don't want that either. Trying to do what is best for him here! God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  16. #16
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Soon as I know his COWS score I can give you my best advice. I know he's been taking some opiates out of necessity for several days. We have to get those out of his system before putting him back on subs, at even a low dose, or he'll get so sick you won't even believe it. He may have to go until this evening or so depending on how he scores. I don't want to make him violently ill, I know that you don't want that either. Trying to do what is best for him here! God bless.
    Robert I trust you on this without question, and I know you have his best interest in mind, I know my limitations, and would not advise him other than to do as exactly as you say. Your character shows,my friend! God Bless Surfdog

  17. #17
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauijim66 View Post
    I just cant believe these (sort of) wds are lasting this long. And im really worrying about how long they might last...
    Hey Maui, how are doing ? surfdog

  18. #18
    mauijim66 is offline New Member
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    see man, i did alot if reading back in december to try to see what i was in for. Everything i read seemed to say that the acute phase would hit its peak in about a week, then taper off. So i wast thinking two or three weeks of wd IF you kicked at say, 10 or so. Since i spent a couple of weeks at 5, then a couple weeks at 2.5, i 'assumed' that mine would be shorter and lighter.
    I guess it didnt play out that way.
    I wonder if dosing myself a couple of days ago dragged me backwards as far as 'wd time' goes.
    Dog, im the same today that ive been for weeks. No energy, no motivation, weird little aches and sensations, immodium. Talking to you guys HAS given me a sliver of hope though. Thank you.

  19. #19
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauijim66 View Post
    see man, i did alot if reading back in december to try to see what i was in for. Everything i read seemed to say that the acute phase would hit its peak in about a week, then taper off. So i wast thinking two or three weeks of wd IF you kicked at say, 10 or so. Since i spent a couple of weeks at 5, then a couple weeks at 2.5, i 'assumed' that mine would be shorter and lighter.
    I guess it didnt play out that way.
    I wonder if dosing myself a couple of days ago dragged me backwards as far as 'wd time' goes.
    Dog, im the same today that ive been for weeks. No energy, no motivation, weird little aches and sensations, immodium. Talking to you guys HAS given me a sliver of hope though. Thank you.
    Maui, I wish I could give you more info, when I retired oxys, were relatively new, and Suboxone had just come on the market and was being heralded as a "miracle " for the treatment of opiate addiction. Went to the FDA site earlier and God are they misinforming people so you can just imagine how misinformed docs are on this.
    Robert is much more educated on this than I am, and I certainly do not want to mislead you in any way on lenth of wds or their severity. I do know the PAW are not as severe and are usually periodic and not sustained as what you are going through now.
    It is not going to last forever, and as tough as it is remember, NEVER forget this pain. That could and probably will save you another relapse. Bro if I could do more I would. Trust Robert he will be on shortly. God Bless and plese hang in there pulling for you man Surfdog
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  20. #20
    alleycat4714 is offline Junior Member
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    mauijim66-
    It sounds like your serotonin, endorphins, and dopamine levels are depleted from the opiates. Not saying depression itself isn't playing a role, I don't know your history. But I do know that it's hard to judge what is biological and what is from addiction this early on. Think about the length of time you were using; your brain just needs some time to rejuvenate itself. I really felt bad for you as I was reading your post, trust me when I say I know exactly how you feel. It doesn't make you any less of a person, we've all had serious depression and financial issues. It sounds like physical w/d wasn't too bad, which is always a blessing. I guess this wasn't the greatest advice, just thought you could use a kind word...Just hang in there, hope things get better for you!

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