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- 1 Post By kc1223
20-60mg Daily Norco Habit (Hydro) - Withdrawals? Help!
20-60mg Daily Norco Habit (Hydro) - Withdrawals? Help!
Let me first say what a blessing these boards are and the people that choose to take time out of their busy lives to help others. You all are truly an inspiration.
Here is my story. Ill try to keep it short and to the point. I am an addict. I started taking these due to a car accident roughly 2 years ago and well, enjoyed them so much I never really got off them. Three months after the accident I had nearly finished physical therapy and quit with no problems, didn't even notice withdrawal symptoms (didn't know what they were at that point). Fast forward two months, I started taking them again because I missed the feeling it gave (I have anxiety constantly, this obviously does wonders, but I understand is no way to self medicate). I used only on the weekends and would never exceed 120-150mg in a weekend. Fast forward a year or so and I was using roughly the same amount. Only weekends. I would always have mild W/D symptoms come monday; runny nose, watery eyes, little anxiety, etc. By Tuesday I was always back to normal then rinse and repeat!?
Now, for the last 4 or so months it has turned into an everyday habit, anywhere from 20-60mg a day. I would say I use 20-30mg Sun-Wed and 30-60mg on Thurs-Sat. I was recently introduced to Roxicodone and, wow, glad I only had 10 or so pills (snorted them over a 10 day period, never used more than 1 pill in a day) I can see the true power of Oxy and the warmth etc was just overwhelming. At that point I knew this could easily get out of control unless I am to do something now. I have not tried to quit as of yet but, the feelings of guilt are catching up to me. I am 27, physically active, and have a great career ahead. Now is the time..
I know my use may seem like peanuts compared to some but, I want to take control now. What should someone expect withdrawal wise given my use? I know it's hard to tell given each person is different but, would it be best to taper down? I know I can easily drop down to 20mg a day with nothing more than a little anxiety. If I can keep to 20mg for a week or two or so and drop it down to 1 10mg Norco a day will I be in pretty good shape? Physical withdrawal wise that is, I know mentally I'm in for a whole other bull ride.
Any insight / help is greatly appreciated.?
P.S I have Xanax if needed.?
first of all good luck quitting. you can do it. i know it is hard but many of us have been through it and you can come out on the other side. basically you are not alone in this and you can beat it. but yes, if you can ween down. i only say if you can because that never worked for me. but if you are disciplened enough not to take all your pills than yes by all means your withdrawls should be reduced by cutting your dosage and stepping off. you could probably step down over a lesser period of time even if you wanted but that's up to you. as far as the actual withdrawls, everyone does experience them differently so not sure what you are in for there. but if you do the taper i think you will be LESS sick yes. i would get horribly sick but i usually quit cold turkey so big difference. def. expect to feel some form of withdrawls when you come off the pills completley i would guess they will be fairly mild if you do the taper. sweats, a bit shakey, very emotional, maybe quesy... the xanax will help with the anxiety during the withdrawls and try to drink a ton of fluids and stay as active as possible to restart your brain producing those good chemicals. it will be hard to stay active because you will be tired but move around as much as you can. good luck to you!!
Last edited by kc1223; 02-28-2012 at 06:52 PM.
Haypress .... Welcome to the forum. You are so right that NOW is the time to act! While your daily use is certainly not at the level of many here like you say, it is great that you recognize the need to get out before your addiction really gets out of control.
It takes a very special kind of person, and strength to taper down from these pills! You have to be firmly committed to being finished with that lifestyle. Most people (not saying you) can not do it (taper down) successfully. They give it their best effort and when they have any pills left it just seems that they want to gobble them up at once, or at least many at one time. That is exactly what I would do. My best intentions were to taper, but could never succeed with it. I abused for over 35 years and finally had to go the Suboxone route to get it done. So you need to get out now before this goes any further! Cold turkey is the best way to go as you get it over with the quickest. Maybe taper down as low as you can go and then jump from there is my suggestion.
You can expect the withdrawals to last approximately 3 to 7 days or so. The worst of the symptoms will be over after about 3-4 days. Then the mental aspect sets in and most will tell you that is the toughest part to deal with. You can expect to have the sweats, chills, headaches, RLS, gooseflesh, and some other symptoms as well. But like you know everyone is so different and what one person has, another may not experience it at all. A POSITIVE attitude will go a long ways to serve you well while you are in detox. Thinking negative thoughts will surely produce negative results!
There is a recipe called the Thomas Recipe that has lots of vitamins and supplements to help with your symptoms. I will put the link to it at the bottom of this post for you. It does recommend the use of Benzo's, but I would wait on them and see if they are needed before you automatically use them. There are other things you can do as well to help. Hot showers and baths are awesome! Of them all, EXERCISE is the best thing that you can do. You don't have to run 5 miles, but if you can go for daily walks or do whatever your physical condition allows will benefit you so much! And maybe some real good protein shakes as well for energy.
I wish you the very best in your efforts. Keep posting your progress and others will be here to help with other suggestions and advice. You can do this and have already taken the first step by admitting your problem! Hope this helps. God Bless....Denny
The Thomas Recipe
Well ever since taking those Roxie's I feel I've had to take more Vicodin / Norco in the process to relieve my anxiety / have the same feeling as one norco gave in the past. Is it possible after using 30mg of Roxi for 10 days, it could have this profound effect on my tolerance? I hope I can get back to my goal of only using 20mg a day, as of right now this is not the case.
Unfortunately I am also a heavy drinker and user of other drugs, in order to get my opiate use down I have to quit using these other substances. As some of you I'm sure know, after a heavy night partying, opiates are a quick fix. I will be going to meeting in the meantime to make sure I don't slip. If I can stay sober off everything else for a couple weeks, I can focus on tapering down / quitting cold turkey. Withdrawing from opiates while dealing with the depression / anxiety of binging off other drugs is hell and a half.
Does anyone have similar issues?
You all are truly hidden gems.
P.S. KC and Denny, your thoughts and time are greatly appreciated, I cannot thank you enough. This addiction is getting stronger by the day and before I know it, all hell could break loose. It's time to take control.
Last edited by Haypress; 02-28-2012 at 09:11 PM.
Reason: To give credit
yes using harder / stronger drugs will have an affect on your tolerance for sure. the nature of all of those drugs is the more you use the more you need to use to get the same affect. the fact that you use other drugs and alcohol all play into the mix as well. as far as having similar issues honey a lot of people do. drugs and alcohol go hand in hand. they are coping mechanisms and ways to deal. esp. if you have anxiety and depression problems. i would consider talking to someone and maybe getting on an antidepressant as well. that has helped me enourmously. just remember you can win this battle. it is going to take a lot of strength and determination but you can beat it.
Kc, thanks again for posting. The fear of withdrawal I think in turn is increasing my anxiety therefore increasing my dosage. I am now using roughly 60mg everyday and am scared to go back to 20mg. Just a couple weeks back I was using 20mg and did so for 7 days (until the weekend hit where I bump it up to 60-70mg for a couple days), I unfortunately had a heavy binge and was introduced to the roxi and have been using steadily more since then. I have made a commitment to quit drinking and using other substances and get clean. I know that means opiates too. Starting Friday I will shoot for using 2 norcos and keeping it that way for a week, then a few days for one, then no more than a half for the last few.
My one question is, over these last 10 days or so, using roughly 60-80mg a day (including a 30mg roxi in those 60mg), how difficult will it be to drop back down to my 2 norco habit a day? Any help / insight is beyond appreciated.
withdrawl does produce anxiety for sure. it will be pretty difficult to cut the dosage. your body has developed a tolerance. your brain isn't going to be being fed those chemicals anymore and it is going to tell you you need more. especially if you are trying to get off the other stuff too. you will be noticing the difference for sure. probably be really tired and feeling sick, anxious and depressed. that is why the weening doesn't work for a lot of people because you automatically want to take more to get the feel good affect. cutting down is hard and yes you will feel the difference in the dosages. not trying to be depressing just honest. hope this helps.
KC, thanks again for taking the time out of your day to reply. I agree, it will take some self control to get back down to 2 a day, but If I can get back to my exercise regimen, I have confidence the natural endorphins will help ease the pain. I have given my girlfriend the last 40 I have and told her under no circumstance do not let me have more than two a day. Thankfully the weekend is upon us and my body will have time to get accustomed. I will do the same the following Friday and knock back to 1 while I have the weekend for my body to get accustomed to the new dose.
I could never abuse my girlfriends trust and buy / use more behind her back, this weekend is going to be a tough one but I have faith If I can comfortably get back down to 2 a day over this next week I will be well on my way. Knock on wood, under no circumstance am I going to be overconfident as I have done in the past.
Hey Haypress hang in there. It will get better, TRUST ME! I know your tapering off and if that's the way you want to do it then go for it! I don't know much about tampering and it wasn't for me. I had to go CT. I'm ending Day 4 tonight and awaiting Day 5 tomorrow! Each day will get better if you put in the hard work and dedication to beating this addiction. It will be hell but, you have to be prepared to fight hell face to face and tell him enough is enough and I want my life back. I will check in and will be here for you as I am in the same process as you! Me and you will make it out of this!
Ambition to stay clean >
that is how I started. Without sounding harsh, you either get a handle on it now or you will end up dead, in jail or in an institution. NOTHING good can come from oxycodone, here me when i say this they will destroy your life. You are young, you have a career.....STOP NOW....
Ask anything you want, i will tell you anything...
I lost my wonderful career, just got out of rehab....PLEASE....
Hey Haypress, just checkin in on ya. How you feelin'? I hope your doing good. Check in, Stay strong! You and I can do this together my friend.
Ambition to stay clean >
Hi Hay and Welcome!
I'm glad you recognize where you're headed. Wise, wise. I remember when I found this site in Dec of 2009 I read as much as I could. At that point I had been abusing for over 20 yrs on and off, more on than off. Got clean a few times only to relapse pretty quickly. You know the drill, I'm sure. "Just this one" and then we're off an running. I've tried and failed at just about every method to detox except for subs or methadone. Methadone because it scared the hell outta me and subs I had never heard of until I joined this Forum. Tapering I simply didn't have the stamina. To me, it I just felt like ???? everyday, lasted for a few days and gobbled like a turkey telling myself I'd just get rid of what I had and go cold turkey. I actually got clean more than once with cold turkey but couldn't get thru what was left to stay clean for very long.
Fast foward early Jan 2010. Something in my brain switched on. I got excited. I found a strength I couldn't have dreamed I had gained from the support and success stories from this Forum and dived into cold turkey with an attitude that was different than ever before. I knew what I was in for. In the beginning, I quite literally watched the clock and told myself wait 15 minutes, just get thru 15 min and if you want to make to call to get something I could. Your words, rinse and repeat. After a bit I was waiting an hr, than 1/2 a day. Soon, I would pray for the time of night to come that it would be too late to make a call. I could also call in the morning. At the absolute peak of my symptoms, my dealer showed up at my door to "be sure I was alright". lol. Right! I told me I was good, shut the door, went to bed and cried. This lasted for 5 days. It seemed like a lifetime at the time but in reality, I've had the flu for a longer period of time. I should add that I was using very heavy at the time. If I could do this, you can. I just got to the point that I just couldn't look myself in the mirror anymore. I had turned into a liar, a thief, and I hurt everyone who loved me. I had to be done! A very long way of saying that in the beginning "one day at a time" is an ambitious goal. "One minute at a time" is a more realistic goal.
One other thing that helped me was to not allow the symptoms to frustrate me. The lack of sleep and RLS were the two symptoms that I found the hardest to deal with. I'd get out of bed and get onto this Forum and whine, rant, write. Anything to pass the hrs of the night. During the day I would force myself to shower. DO SOMETHING...ANYTHING. If nothing else it passed the time and I swear while I was out and with others I did feel better, at least for awhile.
How you do this is entirely up to you. I'm a true believer in cold turkey much the way in I'm in favor of ripping the damn bandaid off and getting it over with. By day 6, you'll be amazed that you made it. You'll be left feeling a bit weak but getting back to your routine will cure that in no time. I promise. Other than the obvious motivations of getting and staying clean mine was to be able to look into my clear bright eyes every morning and be proud of what looked back at me. I loved my eyes! I stopped looking at people in the grocery store and wondering how in the world did they survive life without drugs????? If it were possible I wanted that. I wanted it bad enough to do it.
My best to you. However you choose to do this is the right way. Sometimes it's trial and error. The most important ingredient for me was to be excited! You are embarking on the rest of your life.
"Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars." Kahil Gibran (1883-1931).
Ambition, check your thread bro following you on there.
Catrina, thank you for your kind response. Other persons stories somehow are always almost the key to getting through this. Knowing there are people out there in your shoes, going though what you are, and succeeding and feeling great is just.....awe inspiring. I honestly never realized how difficult this was going to be along side trying to kick drinking and cocaine. I am doing everything in my power including meetings, informing family, and seeing an addiction therapist. I will continue to monitor my progress and let you all know how the weeks pan out. Thank you for all your support.
Hey there man...I have to chime in here for a sec as I relate to one of your posts.
I remember when I used to take vicoden or norcos for the pain...then for the good feeling. Then I found Percocets (oxycodone)....nice warm fuzzy everything is great feeling. After that...the vicodens never were the same...no thanks...Oxy was IT.
So...good for you getting clean when your life is just getting good. Ive wasted 12 years downing/snorting these little peckers. Im clean now....tapered down then quit. You can do it..I did...
God Bless my friend!!!!
Thanks all, just into night 4 of coming off 60mg for 3 years. just woke up after straight 4+hrs sleep, amazing really. Today which was day 4 was bad because I thought, i should be off this stuff by now, but i wasn't, still aint really. Horrible stuff. My god my life is such a mess at 56 yrs age, no job, friends all gone, pissing away my money. Stealing, lying, pervert, arrogant know it all, rude, get into arguments and tell everyone off and also just got robbed. I was easy prey. Its what i did to my life which is so amazingly screwed up. And when you are coming off CT this echoes through your mind every 3 seconds, what a loser, its not worth it, whats the point, the economy is frigged up, the world is this and that. Well, yah maybe, but even at 1:30am i feel better now. My Lord, why do they make all these drugs? How can us humans hurt each other so badly like this. This stuff when you start feels so warm and fuzzy, you're so confident, doing a great job at work. And then of course most of use also drinking with it or smoking pot too, all kinds of other things too. I had to drink 4 to 6 beers the last 4 days to stop the misery or knock it down. Today i am hoping for no beer also. Wish me luck. When you try to stop your mind plays all the rotten self image thoughts on the CT, that's the killer. And believe you and me we got real payback which is which we have done, the stupid emails and phone calls, dear god, what have i done. For me, 4 days ago i bought a cheap plane ticket to another city to get away from the pharmacy that sells it over the counter in the country i stay in, what a drugged out country it is. Well anyhow thanks for listening to my ranting and i will post again with good news i hope. Dear Lord I hope I never put this stuff in my system again.what a living nightmare of loneliness despair and misery.
Last edited by ddcmod; 06-10-2012 at 02:13 PM.
Ok, Slept another 3.5 hr uninterrupted and its 430am. amazing. I want more of this rest. I fell heavy, i suspect my liver in rough shape. many yrs of beer 8-12 a day + hydro. Gave away . bought everything fro people, leeches, lost things, forget my phone on the restroom, come back its gone. lose my keys all the time, hell, what a life.
Last edited by ddcmod; 06-10-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Starpony, I know very much what you mean. I am at Day 6 and feeling, well, still awful but it's better now each day. I hope I will have the good sense to NEVER do this to myself again.
I am sort of used to being up from 2-4 AM then sort of sleeping till 7 or so. A good night's sleep will be the biggest gift.
Well its monday afternoon, and last i did 60mg was wed last week, feel very heavy, lots of sweating(im in the tropics though) but its abnormal. I had a productive day today. I could think clearly although tired and i made sense and did some sensible stuff, had a few beers now 17:30 so i guess i didnt make the no beer thing yet. But i can feel some healing. Thanks thalia 45 were doing the same thing here.
It would be nice to wake up and be rested, when I was doing that stuff i was always half asleep, even while asleep, dreaming, peeing every hour. So i was amazed to look at the clock and go over 4 hrs sleep, the another 3.5 last night, but again feel like i,m wearing a 60 pound lead backpack, and walking through 8 inches of mud. trying not to let all the memories of dumb stuff make it "OK to do this stuff again because im a great big loser", well that's one voice. Im fighting though.....
Hi and it is great to have a site where we can come and get support from others in our similiar situation. Don't downplay your addiction problem, you said you didn't think yours may not be as bad as others but honestly, anyone suffering from any kind of addiction deserves a "seat" so to speak amongst all of us addicts. I feel for you and I know your pain, I too have been addicted on and off pain killers anywhere from norco to dilaudid iv. I had quit the pain killers for so many years and recently got back on them this past January, thinking or lying actually to myself that I could 'manage' them THIS time. LOL. Yuh, right! I too have a tremendous feeling of guilt and sadness. I feel alone. I am back in the "swinging door" and still battling obtaining sobriety myself. Please know you are not alone! Now to your question about tapering off the pain meds, everyone is different so it's hard to say just how you will do on tapering down to zero. I can just tell you my experience with "tapering" down, it didn't work. Not for me. I just couldn't seem to muster up enough will power to do it. And, if you know or have read the Big Book it tells us that will power in an addict is really non existent. We have lost our power over our addiction. I do not want to label you an addict AND you may have the strength and will power where I did not and I hope you can get clean. I did however taper down and get off suboxone on my own and succeeded. I know its not the same drug but the withdrawels would be about the same, I began taking 1/2 for 2 weeks, then down to 1/4 for two weeks, and then 1/8 for two weeks, then 1/8 every other day and one day just quit cold turkey and I had no withdrawels or bad feelings. I was working out and keeping very busy, and being FREE from the 'master' was an awesome feeling. I hate as most do , have something that literally seems to run your life and take over. I would suggest seeing an addiction specialist and see what he has to say. My own doc is a recovering addict and a addiction psych, so he is understanding and helpful....though expensive w/out having insurance. Suboxone works wonders. It takes all the withdrawels symptoms away and prevents you from getting high IF you were to slip and like I said in my experience the sub was not hard to get off of once I decided to go for it. Now, this is only MY suggestion and I just wanted to share my own experience with what you are going through. Right now, I am dealing with which side of the fence to fall into. I have kidney stones and I have needed to take pain med, so my doc told me to take a small amount of sub, in case I need the pain med. Unfortunately I cannot trust myself as to how much pain I'm in and if I really need pain med. I started sub on sunday and today I started to hurt so got back on norco. I am feeling VERY ashamed and full of guilt. I SO want off. I REALLY hope you find your way through this, whatever way you decide to go just remember I am here for you, if you need someone to listen. I am by no means claiming victory over the addiction, I'm just one human being reaching out to another that has similiar sad and complex problem of addiction. I feel I rambled, but I mean well and I will pray you find your path to sobriety. Take care of yourself and write me anytime you want to talk. Peace, Jules
Hi there. How are you doing? I couldn't sleep last night and not able to get to sleep tonight so far. So, I just wanted to see how you are doing and how you're feeling? Hang in there.
I have never been on this site before today and yes what a blessing to read about the experience of drug addictions from others and how they deal with it. I can say one thing that these Vicodin are a viscous cycle and very tough to get out of. I have been using pills now for almost 4 years. I would say for the first year and a half I had no idea I had a problem. I would take the pills on occasion, several times a week and if I did not take them I never felt withdrawal symptoms. It was only when I began to take them everyday for a good six months straight that I felt withdrawal symptoms when I tried to stop. I started taking them when I went through a divorce and was working several jobs to make ends meet. I am currently attending college and still working several jobs. My addiction continued to get worse when my boyfriend starting getting a script for 180 Vicodin a month. My boyfriend went off of the pills just to give me all of them because he hated watching me go through withdrawal and mood swings. My boyfriend has legitimate pain and really needs to be on them but goes through pain just to keep me happy. I truly need some help but it seems there is not enough help out there. I once went through a rapid detox program on suboxone but relapsed. I am now currently on a waiting list to get on suboxone. Most programs require you to go through extensive counselling and you have to commit to three nights a week of counselling sessions. I am unable to do this because of work and school. The program I am on a waiting list does not require all of the counselling but the waiting list is so long that it can take up to a year before they get you in. I know I put myself into this situation and now I need to step up to the plate and try to get myself some help. Any information on how to cope with this situation would be greatly appreciated. As all of you know that this addiction is very costly and it takes over your life. The pills become your life and you base your daily activities around how many pills you have to get through your day. I have been taking 12 vics a day and just cut down to 4 a day. Even on 4 I feel sick and very emotional. I just truly need help and am so tired of living this way. I wish all of you the best and hope someone can give me some advice on how to beat this horrible addiction!
This can be beat, you may want to start your own thread, the "Need to talk" forum my be a better spot to post, a lot of good people there, and more traffic.