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Why Should I Quit?
Why Should I Quit?
First, let me say that I am not trolling and just want other people's opinions.
With Robert's tapering plan, I am almost clean. I'm on about .125 mg/day. I know it seems so small but it's hard to even kick this. With such a small amount, I don't even feel the effects right away. It takes about 2-4 hours for me to feel relieve. And throughout the tapering, I would cheat a little bit every few days. I think that's inevitable when you have a large stash on hand. It's really hard to not just double your dosage once in a while. But I'm almost done!
But, I wanted to know why hydrocodone is so bad? For me, it was about the money. I simply couldn't afford it anymore because I was getting it off the street. $7/pill times 5-7/day blew out my savings. But, while I was on it, life seemed so much better. My work product improved, I had so much more energy, and nothing really stressed me out anymore. But, after a few months, my savings were blown and I was forced to stop.
But, now I am thinking about doing it perhaps once a week?
I really don't have anything to relax on the weekends. I can't do alcohol because of my liver. I think I am mentally strong enough to do it only on a Friday. No Sat and Sun. That way I won't feel any withdrawal.
Or is this one step towards hell again?
Please don't get mad at me. Just your opinions please.
I am not mad at your for asking.... Let me be clear on that... BUT, I think that rational is
"not sound"... nuff said. All my best, Reid
first if you cant drink because of your liver your killing your liver with the meds too. every single medication you take has to be filtered through your liver so that 5-7pills a week is probably just as bad as 5-7 beers a week. find other ways to relax. try reading, writing, listening to music, walking, meditating (yes meditating i do it when i get my anxiety attacks and most times it helps) watching a movie. there are tons of things that can relax you. btw it will start off at just once a week but surely it will go back to an every day habit and eventually you will be worse off than when you quit the first time. dont jump off the wagon you NEED to do this to save your life. please take it from someone who knows. i WATCHED my mom die because of an opiate addiction. I TOOK HER OFF THE VENTILATOR. it was the hardest thing i ever had to do and now i look back and say had i known she had a problem i could of tried to help her. dont throw your life down the tubes because thats all those devil pills are going to do to you.
Read the thread I just bumped up "For those of you struggling...."
I think this is a legitimate question and I asked it myself a few years ago and then I took hydrocodone for over 4 years so maybe I can give you some answers. First off you won't be able to do it just on Fridays. The pills/addiction talks to you and tells you that you need it for this thing that came up and that thing that came up because you can handle the problems in your life so much better if only you take a pill. But it is a lie. Before you know it you are taking it every day but telling yourself that you can stop anytime.
Originally Posted by VeryCasual
You ran out of money before you experienced the next step and the next step that happens to EVERYONE is this: the day comes when it no longer makes you feel the way it did but rather you need it just to feel normal. This happens with all opiates. You will have less energy and be depressed easier and to top it off you will be feeling withdrawals every four hours. You will wake up in withdrawals in the middle of the night and then again in the morning. You will constantly be worrying about running out. And for what? There is no more getting high from it you are only taking it to feel normal... the way you would feel if you never took it, except for the withdrawals every few hours. So you are faced with either taking more or going cold turkey. It also affects your self esteem, sex drive, ability to feel real emotions, etc. etc. Most people start taking more at this point and I know I don't need to tell you where that leads. By the time I got off these pills it was not even lasting 4 hours anymore and i would feel withdrawals after 2 1/2 to 3 hours and it was a huge wall of pain that seemed impossible to get to the other side of. You are on the other side now. If you don't stay there you will regret it for sure. We all think we are different but in this respect we are all the same so learn from our mistakes and don't let yourself go there because if you do... this is what you have to look forward to.
p.s. the APAP that is in these pills is just as bad for your liver as alcohol.
Last edited by SuzieOf; 04-30-2012 at 04:37 PM.
Casual, not mad at all but you did ask for opinions and this include a lot of facts. Why should you quit I don't know man , if you're not ready to quit it won't matter anyway. For an addict the only catalyst for change is pain, if it don't hurt bad enough no reason to stop. Now for your liver, the Tylenol in the hydro which is a lot will take care of your liver to the point of shutdown or transplant, and addicts don't do well qualifying for transplants. That amount of Tylenol is probably worse for the liver than the alcohol. $50-$75 bucks a day for dope is pocket change right now can promise you that will get expensive very quickly. No dope dealer has "friends" he takes care of and understands their hard times. The only friend a dealer has is profit, one junkie drops dead, hey plenty more to take their place, no big deal. Oh "I'll only do it on Fri. " and I'll only take one,drink one, do it once ect. ect. Heard that one more times than I can count.Are you alcoholic?
Originally Posted by VeryCasual
Whether you choose to quit is up to you, I am not trying to scare you or preach to you. Normally when the addicts I have worked with over the years ask this same question, the answer has been "if you haven't hurt badly enough go get some more" AA NA will tell you the same thing, AA states if not convinced try some controlled drinking. Hope you decide to follow Robert's advice not just his taper but up to you. Good Luck Surfdog
Trust me i started taking Vicodin to and now I am up to 800 mg or so of oxycodone a day I am prescribed 430mgs a day and it isn't enough. I'm telling you $50 a day is nothing it gets real real expensive real quick when I'm out of my script I'm spending $300+ a day on 30mg roxys and I live in south Florida so I'm sure it will be times 2 somewhere else. Quit now in the grand scheme of things u can save yourself a lot of heart ache. I have tried 100s of times to control my use it doesnt work and actually sucks trying to control using. It is a lot less enjoyable once you start trying to control it.
In all honesty I remember when I first quit. And went through my first ct off of a dose about the same as yours. It is cake walk compared to the WDs I go through ablest once a month for a day or so. I do remember that first time and I thought the WDs were bad. I look back and I wish it was as mild now. I'm not down playing your situation at all I'm just letting you know if you keep going its going to get a lot worse. You have liver problems so real soon Vicodin will not get you high and you will need to take something stronger because if you take to many Vicodin you run the chance of liver failure with a healthy liver. So you will either switch to roxys or dilaudid because they don't contain the Tylenol. Once you go to roxys there is no taking anything else orally. Hydromorphone (dilaudid) has a low oral bioavailability so you will have to shoot them. You may be thinking and saying to yourself you will never do that. Trust me we all have done all the things we said we would never do. Take it from someone who started exactly how you are 5 years ago and has a massive nasty very expensive habit, to stop now while you havent done the things you say you will never do. If you are doubting you have a problem trust me you do. We don't post here with issues about using if we don't have a problem. Normal people don't do that!!!
Originally Posted by VeryCasual
I don't get mad at anyone on here anymore, I would just say that the only reason to quit is to be clean. If you don't want to be clean then go for it and be a junkie, pill head or whatever term you want to use. That's where you'll end up if you choose not to stay clean, take it from someone who's been there probably since before you were born. Took me 35 years of wasting my life thinking that I knew better than everyone else who was telling me there is a better way to live. You're either clean or you're not, it's your choice and I stopped trying to talk people into doing it my way long ago. Good luck to you. God bless.
I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.
Good advice and opinions from all here. Let me be very clear in mine: YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE IT JUST ON FRIDAYS...PERIOD. Don't bet your life on it my friend.
You said it yourself, "you can't do alcohol because of your liver" well do you think your liver likes all the APAP from hydrocodone?? Either way your liver will die, as will you. Take your pick. Alcohol, pills, or life.
Clean as of 5.29.2014
"Do you have another day 1 in you?"
I'm new. I'm not an addict. But I used to love one very much. In fact we were both advocates for recovery. He was what most would call a drug counselor. I'm sharing this to save your life. My husband was sober for 30 yrs. Six yrs. ago pain management was on his doorstep due to injury. He was given oxy, hydro and whatever else the facility could give. He himself had the drs. taper him. Then he just ended up buying off the streets. Went into detox three separate times over the last 4 yrs. Three years ago he had colon cancer but luckily great doctor was able to remove and treatment worked. Everything everyone is sharing with you is fact. You become a completely different person in addition to medically killing yourself. Although my husband was saved medically he is leading a horrible lonely life which at one time was a life he cherished, respected, and was very thankful for and saved other peoples lives as well. He is pretty much losing everything at this point. He spoke today about trying to go ct. His struggle didn't even begin and yet he is working around like he has already flatlined. You have achieved a wonderful accomplishment. Don't lose it. Stay the course, keep positive. Remember the hell you were living and believe it will only get worse if you go back. Stay healthy and look forward to the wonderful life you were given.
Comeback... Good response. one of the last things you said struck a chord with me... You said, "
Take your pick. Alcohol, pills, or life". That is the crazy thing about pills and the hold/manipulative grasp they have... There was a time when I was deep in my cycle of addiction and I could actually convince myself that living without pills was just not an option and moreover, I needed them TO LIVE... The whole it's ok they are perscribed mentality... But here are the facts about the poster.. He/she comes on here.... to an addiction forum and asks a bunch of old/new addicts... Hey, Uhm... I was wondering... Why should I quit...... what is he looking for..... NAAAHHHHHHH, your good... I mean its only a few times a week. Wink.... Geeez... The question that kind of stung with me was...."But, I wanted to know why hydrocodone is so bad"... UHM Welp.... Take a little bit of time and read around here... I don't know, this one just got to me a bit... Your post was good Comeback... Just venting on how I feel about the initial post I guess... There are so many people on here that are fighting and to read this post just Pi$$ed me off a bit. Sorry....
But I can understand why the person was asking... they never hit bottom but rather ran out of money and wanted to know if they could just take a little without getting addicted. There are people who have not experienced the misery of addiction and are considering just playing with pills and they need to know what is in store for them and they need to know that it is impossible just to take one pill every Friday. I'm glad he/she posted because maybe this person will not have to go through what I went through if they are smart enough to listen and take it seriously.
Suzie you summed it up with "smart enough to listen" I know I wasn't nobody could tell me anything I was the smartest dumbass walking. There is no teacher like experience, but, she is a cruel taskmaster" However those lessons are still as fresh as yesterday even though they were years ago. Every major health issue I have can be traced directly back to that lifestyle.
Originally Posted by SuzieOf
With this disease for me it wasn't use/drink be clean it was live or die that simple. I don't try to talk anyone out of using anymore just give them the facts as I know them and they make their decision and uusually they have already made it before asking the question God Bless Surfdog
Thanks everyone for their responses. Please. You guys shouldn't get angry. This was a legitimate question because it's a question that I really need to get answered deep down in my heart. And, if you guys can convince me, it will definitely help others reading this.
First to get it out of the way, the tylenol content didn't matter because I was doing cold water extraction. Once of the reasons I was taking the pills was due to constant pain in my leg caused by my scarred liver so I made sure that I wasn't taking any tylenol. But, that is off topic.
Going back to the original topic. It's hard not to have some sort of outlet. Life can be pretty stressful. I know you guys are just trying to watch out for me by telling me to just enjoy life without anything but I don't think it's that easy. For 25 years after your 21st birthday, you always relying on alcohol or some other recreational drug to get you through life, it's highs and lows and its struggles. it's hard to suddenly rely on nothing. if you say it's easy, you are a liar.
At the same time, I am deathly afraid of going through withdrawal again. I've never felt so much pain in my life. But, in part, that is why I think I'll never get addicted again. I truly believe that I can just take it on Fridays. The memories of the torture of withdrawal still lingers and I think I'll be too afraid to take more than 1 day.
But, I also want to be honest with myself. Can I really resist taking another pill on saturday morning after taking some on Friday? by your answers, that's a resounding no. and, I believe you guys.
But, it's hard to accept because frankly, i think life just sucks without them.
at the same time, I do know how addictive it is. for example, it's been months that I've been tapering. I'm constantly cheating every chance i get.
But, after reading your posts, i promise you guys - I'll try my hardest to stop.
Usually don't respond like this but, whatever. Honestly this us pathetic. Explain to me why exactly WE need to talk you in to doing ANYTHING??? Everyone gave you advice and your response is "life is boring without them....Omg... ". Who cares??? Grow up a little bit. Take a few moments and read Live Love Laugh's (?) thread about having cancer and possibly not having much time to live. There is less complaining on there and her situation is much more dire than "life is so boring, boo hoo...."
Originally Posted by VeryCasual
Wow, if you don't really want to stop, no amount of our convincing is going to help. I can promise you that. And then on top of it all, you mention having a bad liver too, well pills won't help that.....guarantee that. And dying from liver failure is NOT a pleasant thing, I witnessed that first hand w my brother. It's a horrible thing.
Think its time you put things into perspective regarding your health and well being and stop worrying about a boring life. Go get a pet or an xbox to keep you entertained.
A boring life is better than no life at all
And I guess you might as well call me a liar then too because living without pills IS easy! In fact, it is significantly easier once you get your mind right and figure out that you're just slowly killing yourself by taking them. Physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially killing yourself. I made a thread about how easy it is. I bumped it up, told you it was there so you could read it and I'm assuming you must not have taken advantage of even more sound advice. Oh well, really not worth my aggravation right now. Best wishes on figuring out to deal w this boring life. Hope you get IT before IT gets you....
Casual, hi there, I am on Day 78 coming off a about 60-90 mg a day of oxycodone. That was from a couple of month relapse. Before that, I was doing them steadily for about 4 years, getting up to about 150-180 mg a day. I DO know what you are saying about thinking life will not be fun without them. Or thinking that you will just not be able to handle life without them. I thought the same thing when I first tried to quit. And even in the early days sometimes thought "ya great, I'm clean, but life just won't be fun anymore". But I can tell you honestly that this is the trickery and lies that pill addiction gives you. I've done things in the past 78 days....and enjoyed them!!....that I never thought I could do without pills. I've gone on outings, hung out with friends, cleaned my house, etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. As far as missing that relaxation outlet....ya, I get that too. Nothing I liked better after chasing my toddler around than putting him to bed, taking a pill and relaxing with a beer on the couch. That WAS a great feeling, not going to lie. But in order for me to be successful this time around, I've chose not to focus on those feelings. Because if I'm truthful...that was a VERY small percentage of being an addict. Mostly I spent my time feeling lousy because I was low or out, or scrambing around, waiting for text messages, driving out of my way, spending ALL of my money to get them. So Azul is right when he says that life IS easiser not being addicted to them. It just is. But you have to get through the stages to see how life gets better. Yes, you will feel bad in the beginning. But it might not be as horrible as you think. The first time I tried to quit I couldn't sleep at all, the second time I had different issues, but sleep wasn't too bad. But if you never gather the strength and push through that first stage, you won't see what life has to offer.
As far as only doing them on "Friday nights". First hand I can tell you that won't work. That's how I relapsed for 5 months and spent thousands more dollars on them. With pills you just can't do that. At first, yes maybe....but very soon Friday night will turn into Saturday morning, and then just special occasions and then because you are having a bad day. And then every morning turns into a special occasion. It happens quick and it sneaks up on you. I have a friend in real life who is going through that AT THIS MOMENT. She quit 10 days after me, and instead of being on Day 68 right now she decided that she would be strong enough to just take them here and there. I told her what I'm telling you, but she didn't listen. And now she tells me I am right, and that she can't believe how quick it was before she was taking them every day again. Not she's gearing up for another Day 1....
It sounds to me like you've had plenty of experience with addiction - but how much experience have you had with complete recovery? As active addicts, we presume that life without a drink or a drug is going to be boring and pointless. We presume that we'll be miserable and have nothing to look forward to. We presume that we'll be lost without an "escape." We presume and we presume... and we talk ourselves right back into the pills.
There is no such thing as "almost clean" or "mostly clean" - or "clean except Fridays." Recovery from this disease is all or nothing. If we keep one foot (or even one toe) into the door of addiction, we're not in recovery. Our minds and bodies are not able to fully heal. Our normal brain chemistry - all those wonderful dopamines and seratonin and endorphins - are not able to get back into normal operation. Any opiate use keeps us plugged into our addictive wiring, and our brains have no way to moderate our hormones, chemistry and resulting emotions.
Too often, people give up on recovery because the results are not instanteous. When we're active, we're basically childlike in our reactions to life - we want what we want when we want it. We want the "quick fix" of a pill or a drink - and we don't want to work for anything. We have little patience, and expect good feelings to just drop into our laps - like they do with the pills.
Recovery is all about maturity. Recovery is about delayed gratification. Recovery is about accepting short-term pain for long-term gain. Recovery is about finding solutions - not wallowing in problems. Recovery is about building life skills - so we can deal with life without a drug. It doesn't happen in 20 minutes or a week or two. It happens when we work toward recovery. In fact, the more effort we put into our recovery - the more results and rewards we find from it.
I think the responses here make it quite clear where your idea of using on one day a week will take you. It will not work - period. But if you want to know where recovery will take you, I'll offer this passage from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous (Alcoholism is the same disease, different substance.) This is what is promised (not just hoped for) when you work a 12-step recovery program:
" If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them. "
You have a choice to make. You can go try your one day a week of using - and do your damndest to control it to one day - as you grit your teeth the other 6 days a week, waiting for Friday. But know that addiction is always, always, always progressive - it always gets worse. It can not be controlled - not for any length of time. So you'll sink deeper and deeper into your disease - needing more to get the same effect. Emotionally, you'll be a wreck. You'll be up and down with the level of opiate in your body. The other 6 days a week (IF you can "control" it) will be frought with anxiety and stress that you will not know how to deal with. You'll just exist those 6 days, until Friday comes along.
Or, you can try something you've never done before. Stop all of it. See what life can be like without a drug. Find out what "normal" emotions are about. See the world through clear eyes. Make decisions with a clear head. Develop self-esteem. Get to some meetings and find out what this recovery business is all about, before you just trash it, presuming it'll be awful. But if you don't try, you'll never know.
You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.
I had a feeling your decision was already made. Life sucks without them gee I hate that. Of course it does you still want to get high, you have no life except that which revolves around getting high.
Originally Posted by VeryCasual
You are not ready to be clean you want one foot on the street and one in recovery won't work, that is like being half-way pregnant . And that alcohol had played a bigger role than described.
You want to use go for it, do it with both hands when you get your ass kicked hard enough,if you are still alive, maybe you will be ready then, no reason to quit until it hurts. Luck to you,your going to need it Surfdog
i watched my uncle DIE because he couldnt get a liver quick enough it really aggitates me when i see someone like you doing something that can kill their liver knowing they have a bad liver. i wonder how many people like you were ahead of my uncle on the transplant list. dont get me wrong im on the same boat BUT i got off knowing hey life may not always be fun but its life so deal. sorry to be harsh... maybe pregnancy hormones maybe mood swings from my stage of w/d either way i think u needed to hear it.
Yea, I watched my brother literally die in front of my eyes due to liver failure so I get your frustration. HOWEVER I do find it rather strange that a pregnant drug addict is giving another addict grief. She is only physically hurting herself while your damage is being done for two. And like both of you, using drugs is a choice that you can make, unfortunately your baby CAN'T. Just be careful that you dont fall down off of your high horse up there....
Originally Posted by scarednalone
Just another reason this forum never ceases to amaze me....
The fact that you think it is normal to cheat on your taper because you have a lot of pills really says to me that you are not ready... or at least you don't understand. I have been tapering for a while too after using subs for over 3 years and I too have plenty of pills and it has not been easy but I instinctively knew that if I cheat I am setting myself back and extending my suffering and that is not an option. Think of this: if you could not keep from cheating with the sub taper how do you think you will be able to not cheat with pain pills?
What you are lacking is a strategy for living life in a different way and still being happy. You have to get rid of all the using friends and make some new clean friends. This is where going to a meeting would really help. Or go to a book store and read about people who found a way to live a clean life, be happy and they are not lying. You have to actively seek a higher purpose in life than getting high. Right now, you are being your own worst enemy because the need to get high is keeping you from seeing other, much higher paths. Surfdog is right in that you have already made your decision but I honestly believe from the bottom of my heart that it is not you but the addiction talking.
Last edited by SuzieOf; 05-02-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Azul.. why so much negativity towards those who are suffering and have not reached where you are at? Don't forget the struggle involved in reaching the other side and how it seems a million miles away. Aren't we here to help and be helped?
Pretty sure the negativity started as she was bashing another addict for hurting themselves because they had a hurt liver. Just sating she shouldn't cast stones because one person is hurting themself while she is hurting two people and one of them has absolutely no say in the matter.
Originally Posted by SuzieOf
But thanks for your concern.
Casual, just wanted to add another reason why just doing them once a week doesn't work. The thing is, the only way to not think about pills every day, all day, is to get enough time between you and the pills. That really is the only way. Now when I'm going through a bad day, or stressful situation, or I have something fun or an obligation coming up, I don't immediately think of pills. But that didn't happen right away. Every time you take a pill, you are keeping the memory of them alive in your mind. And because we already turned into addicts, the memory of them pops up all the time.
To give you an example, I went out to Easter Brunch with my family. I got my family ready for it, went out and enjoyed it, came home exhausted, etc. If I had just taken something 2 days before that, I would still be thinking about the pills and wishing that I had them to get through that Easter Brunch....if that makes sense?
Even if you were able to somehow ONLY take them 1 day a week (and I truly think that's not possible for very long), you would be torturing yourself because you would be feeling deprived of them for the rest of the week. Maybe not physically but definitely mentally.
There is a saying on here...."Once you become a Pickle, you can never be a Cucumber again". I guess what I'm trying to explain speaks to that. There was a time in my life, when I first started taking these, that I DID only take them once or twice a week. But I crossed a line a long time ago, and I'll never be able to go back to that. Don't know if I'll get bashed for saying this....but if there was some sort of fantasy land where addiction and tolerance build-up didn't exist, I guess it would be nice to go back to that. But the reality is that I am an addict, and my tolerance is built up, and I can never go back.
I mentioned my friend who relapsed after thinking she could only do them once in a while. She just went through physical withdrawal after taking them again for only 5 days. She wondered why she would go through WD after only 5 days of usage, while someone else who doesn't have a problem and say has an injury and takes them for 5 days wouldn't go through WD? The answer is that we are pickles, and that person is still a cucumber!
That is my long winded way of again explaining why once we cross that line, we can never go back...
I think I understand about the pickle and cucumber now. I smoked a pack a day for many years and when I was finally ready to quit the only way I was able to do it was to tell myself that I would not have even a puff again no matter what. And for 7 years I never had even one puff and considered myself a non smoker. Then, after 7 years I was at a party one night where all the girls were in the back yard smoking and I wondered what it would be like to have one after all these years. So I did and omg, how fast it took a hold of me again. At first I told myself I would only smoke at parties but before the month was out I was smoking as much or more than when I quit. I couldn't understand because at the party there were a couple of people who did only smoke at parties and I thought I could do it too but now I realize that they could do it because they were cucumbers and I was a pickle. And quitting the second time is a hundred times harder than the first. I came to realize that even if I never have another cigarette again and I think of myself as a non smoker I will never be like a non smoker who never smoked.
Thanks everyone for your opinions. Even though some were unnecessarily negative. No biggie. I'm a big boy.
I'm going to try to stop altogether. Honestly, not sure if it'll work but i'll let you guys know how it turns out.
Negative... No... Brutaly Honest.... I'll raise my hand to that one
Yes, of course you are right. However I guess I expect more from you than bashing a basher. I have spent literally over a hundred hours reading here and nothing even comes close to the support and love you have received in your thread. Even after countless relapses no one was EVER harsh with you!! Or even brutally honest for that matter. Not even Cheeky who tells it like it is in other threads..not even Robert who posted more in your thread than any other I have seen (when not helping with a taper), he even stayed up all night worrying about you and I took one stupid Canadian aspirin (over the counter) and he got mad at me and never came back. You even posted regarding Adderall, Scotch whiskey, xanax, etc. and it went unmentioned in the replies.
Originally Posted by azul diablo
Every time you fell all you got was positive support. We all deserve that kind of love and support and most importantly the patience. We all have a story. I held my mother and my brother as they died and stayed with them until the last moment praying the whole time... both in the same year.
Do I sound jealous? Well, maybe a little but I'm not on the other side yet but doing well and feeling quite alone. I would give anything to have made friends and been showered with the love and constant support that you received. And as you said many times you could not have made it without it so when you get frustrated by the forum because people are not "getting it" and asking for advice and not taking it, it is part of the long process as you know. Nobody can do it until they are ready and even then it is not easy. It took many tries even for you. I hope this doesn't sound harsh because I don't mean it to and I am talking to myself more than you. Getting clean is a very emotional process and I do believe that what helps more than harshness/telling it like it is.... is love, support and patience... what hurts is judgement.
Last edited by SuzieOf; 05-04-2012 at 01:29 PM.