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Vicodin withdrawal low testosterone help.
  1. #1
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Default Vicodin withdrawal low testosterone help.

    History:
    ?? ? ?I have been using vicodin for the better part of 2.5-3 years. It started out at low doses then became much higher ( 10 or so pills daily ). I do not have a prescription and quite frankly I do not want one! I want off this drug. I have quit before for about 4-5 months. Letely I have been taking steps to quit. I have tapered down to 2-3 pills daily of 7.5/500 vicodin. I am planning on going lower in dose as well.?
    ?? ? I have many symptoms due to withdrawal and I am pretty sure I have low testosterone levels due to the vicodin. My symptoms include; low libido (no desire at all for sex, which I have always had very high sex drive), low energy levels( no desire to even get out of bed), anxiety, restless legs, little to no sleep, diarrhea, increase in migraine headaches, flu like symptoms.
    ?? ? The main reason for asking on this forum is because I want of this drug so bad, yet I need my withdrawal to be as minimal as possible right now. I work full time and go to college full time. So I cannot be sick and unmotivated for a long period of time or I will lose my job an fail all my classes. This is the main reason I haven't completely stopped yet.?
    ?? ? I have been researching withdrawal help for months now. I have noticed that alot of rehabs do testosterone replacement therapy and have seen good results on a number of forums. Along with this I have seen a number of other drugs mentioned ( non narcotic ) that help with other symptoms like lack of sleep and energy.?
    My questions:
    ?? ? Since I do not have a legit script, is it wise to ask a doctor for help with my withdrawal symptoms? Or would this be looked at in a Negative manner since I acquired the drugs illegally? I do have medical insurance btw.?
    ?? ? How should I ask my doctor for help??
    ?? ? For someone who has experience with testosterone replacement, how well does it work and how do I see if I need it??
    ?? ??
    I want to thank anyone in advance for a reply. Thank you

  2. #2
    amusedartist325 is offline Junior Member
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    As far as the withdrawal goes, from what I've read and researched on and off this forum, you have a couple of options. You can taper off the vicodin until you're low enough to stop altogether which will definitely make the withdrawals less intense than stopping cold turkey from a high dosage. While you are doing this, look up "The Thomas Recipe for opiate withdrawal". You can google it or look through the forums, it is discussed here several times. Basically, it consists of different things you can do to help with the withdrawal symptoms. Some of the things include a multivitamin, potassium for Restless Leg Syndrome, L-Tyrosine for low-energy, Immodium for diarrhea, etc. Look up the recipe and it will have specific instructions if what you want to do is a taper/cold turkey. You will feel pretty bad, but you'll get through it.

    Another option you have is to go to a doctor who has a license to prescribe Suboxone. However, as you can see on multiple posts throughout this forum, not very many doctors are knowledgeable on how to properly prescribe this drug. The right way to do it is to get completely off the narcotics and wait until you score at least a 26 on the COWS worksheet (it's a worksheet to determine the severity of your withdrawals). Once you score at least a 26 you know you are far enough into withdrawals to begin taking the Suboxone. Talk to Denny or Robert and they can help you get started on the proper dose and then come up with a taper plan to get off the Suboxone in a timely manner. I can give you some information that was given to me by Denny as well as the info I read from Robert325. Look for his taper plan on this forum for additional information. You will be able to find a doctor for this relatively easily if you have insurance. Just do a google search for "Buprenorphine doctors in your area, make some phone calls, and you should find someone pretty quickly who can see you. Unfortunately, most doctors prescribe WAY too much, so before you take any, read Roberts info or talk to him or Denny on how to properly be inducted. Basically, you will take a very small amount (ask Robert or Denny for the specifics) every 30 to 60 minutes until you stabilize and your withdrawal symptoms go away and then this will be your starting dose. You stabilize on your starting dose for around 4 days and then drop the dose by 25% and continue doing this every four days as long as there are no bad symptoms. Eventually you will be on a low enough dose to skip one day, then take a dose and skip two days, then take a dose and skip four days, then take one last dose and you are done!!! Freedom is right around the corner. I highly recommend talking to Robert, Denny, or one of the other "senseis" around here, as they REALLY know what they're doing and will make sure you are on a plan that works for you.

    As for testosterone therapy, I don't know much about it, but it may be something you can discuss with a doctor after you get off everything. Your body may surprise you and start fixing itself as you get off the opiates and as your receptors and brain heals and gets back to functioning normally. I would wait on it personally and see what happens after you get clean. If you're still having problems then, you can do hormone therapy but it's too soon to know if you really need it yet.

    Hang in there, you're gonna be alright. We're all here for you! You already made the HUGE first step of WANTING to end this, and I know you can do it! Everyone here is in your corner

    Marissa
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  3. #3
    amusedartist325 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by amusedartist325 View Post
    Eventually you will be on a low enough dose to skip one day, then take a dose and skip two days, then take a dose and skip four days, then take one last dose and you are done!!!
    Made a mistake here, I forgot about skipping three days. So it should instead read: eventually you will be on a low enough dose to skip one day then dose and skip two, then dose and skip three, then dose and skip four and then dose one last time and you are done! (forgot about the skipping 3 days before--i accidentally wrote to go from skipping two days to skipping four days but that was incorrect, my apologies)

  4. #4
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Thank you for the quick response. I have never posted in a forum like this and wasn't sure I would get such a good response. Thanks
    For me at this time considering my job and school I think suboxone might be the way to go. Considering the fact I didn't have a legit script, do I come clean with the doctor and tell them I was using vicodin illegally? Or how do I go about acquiring it? Also, on other forums I have seen negative results with suboxone, and have read that it has withdrawals also. Is this true? I really don't want to trade one drug for another. I am mainly just looking to ease the withdrawal symptoms so I can still function as best as possible during withdrawals.
    I thank you again for the response as you have already provided me with tons of info that I haven't seen even though I have bee. Researching for months. I will follow up with Robert and Denny as well. Thank you.

  5. #5
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    Nito, welcome

    I am on Day 7 of quitting Vicodin cold turkey. My habit was very similar to yours. I do not think you would need to use subs for this. Your habit is not extreme and you can definitely do it cold turkey! I believe Robert and Denny will tell you the same. I was taking anywhere from 50-100 mgs a day for a couple of years and one day, flushed half my script. I had doctors pushing these on me, so it was easily available and dirt cheap. And I still did it! Yes, detoxing is not fun, but it will only last a short while. Follow the Thomas Recipe (I did it without using benzos) and you will be just fine! I know it's scary, but I promise you, it won't be nearly as bad as you are thinking! Everyone on here will help you, and be a great support team and encourage you along the way! I will be glad to talk to you whenever you need. I too have a very demanding life, and it actually helped me. It kept me focused on things other than the detox. After a few days, you will start having these miraculous moments of clarity! It will be the best thing you will ever do for yourself! Get excited, because the hardest part for me was coming to a point that I knew I wanted to quit! That will carry you farther than you know!! I have every faith that you can do this c/t!!!! We are here for ya darlin!!

    Tx
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  6. #6
    amusedartist325 is offline Junior Member
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    Yes, coming clean with the doctor is necessary as Suboxone is (mostly) used to fight opiate addiction. You have to go to a doctor who is licensed to prescribe it and talk to them. Let them know what and how much you were taking. It won't come back to haunt you. They have patient privacy laws, so it will stay between you and your doctor. It is possible to find on the streets, but I suggest getting a prescription so you can guarantee you will have enough to do a proper induction and taper. Yes, you can get addicted to suboxone but not in the same way as regular narcotics. It isn't going to get you "high"--it is just going to take away the withdrawals. But, you cannot cold-turkey off of Suboxone or you will have bad withdrawals, worse than the ones you seek to get rid of. Follow the taper plan and you will be able to get off of the Suboxone BEFORE your body becomes dependent on it. For most doctors, prescribing Suboxone is a money-maker. They start patients on a hugely high dose for a long period of time so they become dependent and from there, the longer you're on it and the higher the dose, the harder it will be to get off of it and get on with your life. When you get your prescription it will most likely be for 16mg a day (8mg twice a day). DO NOT FOLLOW THIS! It is WAY too high a dose, but don't be surprised if that's the prescription you are handed. You will be supplied with either 8mg pills that look like orange stop signs or 8mg sublingual films that are kind of like listerine breath strips. Whichever type you get, we can help intruct you how to cut it into pieces so you can be inducted properly.

    Here is a link to Robert's plan: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    Read it carefully--he is so, so knowledgeable and through his own experiences and the experiences of other has come up with a really great way to use Suboxone so you can comfortably get off of opiates WITHOUT experiencing an addiction to Suboxone. I know it's scary and there's a TON of info out there, but I'm confident that Roberts plan works. I myself was started on too high a dose of Suboxone a few days ago and Denny has helped teach me the taper plan. It is lucky that you came here before starting on Suboxone because you will have all the info on how to do it the right way. Something extremely important is to make sure you are off of opiates 100% before starting the suboxone. You have to have the other drugs out of your system first and have to be experiencing full withdrawals. The COWS worksheet is the best way to decide when you're ready to take the first dose. Once you score at least a 26 on it, you're golden. You will find all of this information (and more) at the link I posted above, which outlines Robert's plan. If you have any questions, I'll be here regularly and others will be here too. Let us know what you do so we can help you do this the right way. If you follow the plan, you will be off of suboxone within weeks and will suffer little to no withdrawals. Taking it nice and easy and starting with the lowest possible dose that takes away your symptoms and then tapering from there is how it's done. Read the link I sent you above and let me know if you need more info, I'll be here. I know it's a lot to take in at once and a little overwhelming but everyone is here to help! Hang in there, you'll make it through this.

    Marissa
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  7. #7
    Denny_D is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nito2886 View Post
    Thank you for the quick response. I have never posted in a forum like this and wasn't sure I would get such a good response. Thanks
    For me at this time considering my job and school I think suboxone might be the way to go. Considering the fact I didn't have a legit script, do I come clean with the doctor and tell them I was using vicodin illegally? Or how do I go about acquiring it? Also, on other forums I have seen negative results with suboxone, and have read that it has withdrawals also. Is this true? I really don't want to trade one drug for another. I am mainly just looking to ease the withdrawal symptoms so I can still function as best as possible during withdrawals.
    I thank you again for the response as you have already provided me with tons of info that I haven't seen even though I have bee. Researching for months. I will follow up with Robert and Denny as well. Thank you.
    Nito ..... Hello and welcome to the forum. I will be glad to help you in any way that I can. The others have all given you excellent advice, but I would strongly suggest that you take Katie's advice and not go the Suboxone route for your addiction issues. You are not taking that large of an amount of the Vicodin to warrant using Subs at this time.

    It would be much quicker for you to just go the cold turkey route and be done with it in about 3-10 days or so. With the Subs it would require you to use them for a short amount of time to heal your receptors in the brain and then slowly taper off from them. This would take about 6-8 weeks give or take a week or so.

    In the event you are firm about using Subs to get clean you MUST use them the way they are intended to be used. And you must completely understand that most, but not all Sub Doctors have no clue of how to prescribe, induct, and use Subs. That is a complete fact! Read some of the threads and posts here and you will see just what I am talking about.

    You will need to be in moderate to severe withdrawals from the Vicodin for approximately 24 to 48 hours and then induct (begin) on the absolute lowest most effective dose of the Subs. This is usually between 1mg and 4mg total. I can be of help to you either way you decide to go. But once again, I would absolutely go with the cold turkey approach if it were me.

    I abused every drug there is for over 35 years taking between 800mg's and 1000mg's of Narcotics and other things PER DAY and used Subs to get clean and they are a great tool to use, if used properly. But it is certainly much, much easier to just stop firm and deal with the withdrawals that way. Let me know what you want to do and I will give you further options. If you choose the Subs you will need to find a Doctor in your area that has a special license to dispense the Subs. Not every Doctor can do this.

    These Doctors on almost every occasion will do their best to get you addicted to as many Subs as they can and keep you coming back for years if not for life to keep the money train going. That is complete fact!

    So please think it over carefully and post back with your decision. I will be here on and off as I am recovering from a recent surgery episode. Others will help also. I wish you the very best and await your decision. Hope this helps. God Bless....Denny

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Low testesterone is common with guys who abuse opiates. Need to have bloodwork drawn for the results and your regular dr can prescribe testosterone either with a topical gel or injectable prescription. It's one reason lots of guys don't have any sex drive at all when they take opiates for an extended period of time. This can be corrected very easily and quickly. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #9
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Thanks Katie, Marissa, Denny and Robert! Once again I am surprised and very thankful for all the responses. I have learned alot here.?
    ?? ? The main reason I am reluctant to go cold turkey is the fact that I will not get much sleep or have energy for a few days. But I think I will take the few pills I have left and cut my dose in half starting tomorrow. So I'll be at 1-1.5 pills daily for about a week. Then get off from that dose cold turkey like most of you suggested. Hopefully that will address a few symptoms and shorten my down time some. I know I can do this! I have done it before, I just want to take precautions to make it easier and shorter. I will try what I can of the Thomas recipe.?
    ?? ? ?Any suggestions for the restless legs and lack of sleep??
    ?? ? ?Once again I really appreciate all the knowledge all of you have shared and the support. I am in this alone since none of my family knows about it, but now I can come here for support and questions. Thanks.?
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  10. #10
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Robert, do testosterone levels return to normal after quitting? If so, do you know how long it takes? I'm thinking I will have tests done one I'm off.

  11. #11
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    Nito- you are darn right you can do this!! I did, and I have a VERY stressful situation. The Thomas Recipe is amazing. This is what I lived on:

    Imodium (for your icky stomach)
    Bananas (for potassium, to help muscle cramps)
    Tylenol PM (life saver for sleep!)
    Benadryl (for anxiety during the day)?

    I also took 400-800mg of SAM-e in the morning for mood support. Research this before you try it. It has been known to induce manic episodes in people who are bipolar.

    I also took B12 and B6 for energy and mood, but with these it is wise to take a B complex supplement, as the B vitamins work together like a team.

    L-Tyrosine is on the recipe, for energy, although I did without it and without benzos.?

    Trust me, you can do it! I didn't take a moment off of work, and I didn't taper down my Hydrocodone intake at all.

    I am checking the forum a lot, so if you have any questions, don't hesitate! You can do this!!!!
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  12. #12
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nito2886 View Post
    Robert, do testosterone levels return to normal after quitting? If so, do you know how long it takes? I'm thinking I will have tests done one I'm off.




    The levels can and do increase to normal eventually but it can take a while. And it definitely makes us feel better physically to get the levels corrected. There is nothing addictive or wrong about taking the proper dose of testoserone. So you need to have bloodwork to determine your levels. Then the MD can best tell you what you need to take if anything. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #13
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Ok thank you, I will buy all the things for the Thomas recipe soon and keep you guys posted on my progress. Thanks for the loads of info!
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  14. #14
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    One more question Robert. How do I get tested for low testosterone? Do I ask my regular doctor? And would I want to tell him that I had been using vicodin or no?

  15. #15
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nito2886 View Post
    One more question Robert. How do I get tested for low testosterone? Do I ask my regular doctor? And would I want to tell him that I had been using vicodin or no?




    Be truthful, shoot straight with him, tell him you're stopping the opiates though and want to get your testoserone levels checked. They will just draw some blood. He'll likely do a set of standard blood work and check liver enzymes, do a CBC (complete blood count), just regular basic tests.

    He will have more respect for you for being honest. Remember the dr is there to help you, not to judge you. He wants your levels normal too. They usually know more than you think they do and he'll know you're being honest.

    Hope that helps. JUST RELAX!!! It won't be a big deal. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 12-11-2011 at 10:01 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  16. #16
    Nito2886 is offline New Member
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    Thanks. I can't wait to be rid of this. I am alleady at a point where I'm tapered down enough that I do not get high from the pills. So I can't wait to be off them completely. I am glad that I decided to post on here. All of you know more from experience than I could get anywhere else. Thanks. I'll post updates soon as well as any questions.

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