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Tired of the Games...May Try Suboxone...Need Help Please!
  1. #931
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Desire View Post
    The learning to say NO part is what is the hardest for me right now!
    Dogluver,

    What you say about it being your mother and not your father had me reeling. Told you our stories were very similar, and even though it was my father that demanded everything from me, I later found out it was my mother giving him some direction too.

    She wanted the perfect little girl, and if she couldn't make me do things, she had my father do it. I left out some things too. I was never molested either, but it felt like I was in prison at times, or what my perception of prison was at the time.

    I know it's going to take lots of time to get it all out and begin to do things MY way, but I really do feel soooo much better now just for telling what I have already.

    Karen

  2. #932
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Just my thoughts....

    Always thought I HAD to be perfect. Had to look PERFECT anywhere I went. Had to ACT perfect. Had to have the perfect job, and the perfect life. The best car, etc, etc, etc. I really thought EVERYTHING was perfect.

    Turns out, it was only what I thought OTHERS would see as perfect. It really wasn't perfect in my opinion....at least some of it wasn't. Saying "NO" is a very difficult thing for me to do. I always said yes to everything. I would do this and that when I really wanted to do something else, something that I wanted to do.

    I don't know, I'm just rambling now, but more thoughts of my childhood, and my adult life are coming into focus now. More and more as the hours pass. I was a good person before, but drugs made me a great person....in my eyes. Turns out it didn't need to be that way at all. I was already just OK, but I didn't know it at the time.

    Anyway glad I'm now clean. Going to do everything to stay that way. Have to do what dogluver says and learn to just say NO, I don't want to do that today.

    Karen

  3. #933
    dogluver is offline Member
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    Hi again- geew I can't stay away! I know why you are excited- because the light is creeping in.
    And that is truly exciting. And I was pissed at my mother for never standing up for me (I did not tell all either)I remember when, in therapy, after always thinking my mother was so freaking wonderful (and she is- but has her own problems), I got in touch with a DEEP anger. I got on my bike and rode as fast as I could for 45 minutes. Felt better too! And I didn't hash it out with her- didn't feel the need cuz I saw it and sort of got it out. I mentioned it to her- but why beat a dead horse? She has since got sober.

    I want to recommend a FaNTaSTIC book for you- I hope you get it immediately.
    "A Return To Love" by Marianne Williamson based on A Course In Miracles. It is in my top five, and based on our similarities, I'm hoping you'll like it as much as I do.

    One thing I would like to ask- and I preface this by saying it's good to share what you've been through- please start holding back a little. Don't tell all how you're feeling so much. Sometimes we really need to sit alone with those feelings for them to ruminate- ok? Just A little advice from one perfectionistic doormat to another....hahaha- I am dogluver, a recovering doormat (EVERYONE knew they could depend on me- I cared about them more than myself after all). Don't put all of it out there all the time, ok
    Cuz you're incredibly sensitive (me too) and better to get a handle on things before throwing it all out there! Get nice and solid.

    You're doing great!
    DL

  4. #934
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    Karen,
    Isn't it strange that we we let the thoughts of a 5 year old dictate our thoughts and actions at 30?
    Moe

  5. #935
    dogluver is offline Member
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    OH- and omg- I used to iron my clothes within an inch of their LIFE! Haha- god forbid I had a wrinkle. Full make- up, every hair in place. Sheesh- now it's scary- I'll throw on a baseball cap so I don't have to wash my hair and sometimes won't even iron . Who gives a crapola? People are so caught up thinking about them they barely notice anyhow
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  6. #936
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    DL,
    You crack me up! Had I been there, i would have said, "Honey, you've got to quit wearing out the bottom of these irons! That's the third one this month!"
    moe
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  7. #937
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    OH- and omg- I used to iron my clothes within an inch of their LIFE! Haha- god forbid I had a wrinkle. Full make- up, every hair in place. Sheesh- now it's scary- I'll throw on a baseball cap so I don't have to wash my hair and sometimes won't even iron . Who gives a crapola? People are so caught up thinking about them they barely notice anyhow
    Hi Again Yourself,

    I know what you mean by holding back a bit and thinking more on it. But things, situations are coming back to me now at an alarming rate. Scaring me actually some of them. Had to laugh at you mentioning the ironing of the clothes. No hair out of place, full makeup, yep, that was me for sure! Are you and I twins? HaHaHa!

    Karen
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  8. #938
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    Hi again- geew I can't stay away! I know why you are excited- because the light is creeping in.
    And that is truly exciting. And I was pissed at my mother for never standing up for me (I did not tell all either)I remember when, in therapy, after always thinking my mother was so freaking wonderful (and she is- but has her own problems), I got in touch with a DEEP anger. I got on my bike and rode as fast as I could for 45 minutes. Felt better too! And I didn't hash it out with her- didn't feel the need cuz I saw it and sort of got it out. I mentioned it to her- but why beat a dead horse? She has since got sober.

    I want to recommend a FaNTaSTIC book for you- I hope you get it immediately.
    "A Return To Love" by Marianne Williamson based on A Course In Miracles. It is in my top five, and based on our similarities, I'm hoping you'll like it as much as I do.

    One thing I would like to ask- and I preface this by saying it's good to share what you've been through- please start holding back a little. Don't tell all how you're feeling so much. Sometimes we really need to sit alone with those feelings for them to ruminate- ok? Just A little advice from one perfectionistic doormat to another....hahaha- I am dogluver, a recovering doormat (EVERYONE knew they could depend on me- I cared about them more than myself after all). Don't put all of it out there all the time, ok
    Cuz you're incredibly sensitive (me too) and better to get a handle on things before throwing it all out there! Get nice and solid.

    You're doing great!
    DL
    And I promise you that I WILL get that book. I love to read, had to do it as a child, but as an adult it means more now!

    Thank you for everything,
    Karen
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  9. #939
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgh491 View Post
    Karen,
    Isn't it strange that we we let the thoughts of a 5 year old dictate our thoughts and actions at 30?
    Moe
    Hi Moe,

    I've spoken to you before and you have tried to help also and I really appreciate that so much. You're right, the thoughts of being near that age have worked their way into part of my adult life. But I'm beginning to understand more each day now and that's all I can ask of myself right now.

    Thanks Moe,
    Karen

  10. #940
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    Dear Karen,
    This may sound stupid in the written form, but, as you allow them in, the easier it gets to let them go. A platitude here..." I reserve the right to be a little bit smarter today than I was yesterday...and a bit smarter tomorrow than I am today!"
    Sincerely,
    moe

  11. #941
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgh491 View Post
    Dear Karen,
    This may sound stupid in the written form, but, as you allow them in, the easier it gets to let them go. A platitude here..." I reserve the right to be a little bit smarter today than I was yesterday...and a bit smarter tomorrow than I am today!"
    Sincerely,
    moe
    I don't think that sounds stupid at all Moe. It makes perfect sense to me really. I just can't believe how many thoughts are coming my way right now. I think I really understand why and how my induction and taper went so well. It's partly because I just wouldn't LET any harsh symptoms in my train of thought. Like maybe it wouldn't be accepted if I were to have problems.

    What I mean is that even though it (induction and taper) did go very smooth, did I make it go that way because of my past upbringing? Know what I mean? Was it real? Did I really have issues with any part of it and just blow it off because I wanted to be so perfect?

    I don't know, maybe I'm over doing it a bit right now. Need to take a step back and see the whole picture. I get what Dogluver is saying. Don't reveal too much right now, save it for more thought. But I guess I am better today than I was yesterday. And I am certain that I will be better tomorrow too. And smarter.

    Thanks Moe for you insight,
    Karen

  12. #942
    dogluver is offline Member
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    Moe- glad to crack you up And you are such a nice friend to Karen- that's cool!
    Can someone tell me how to PM? I'd like to give Karen my phone number as I think I can really help- but have no clue! Or Karen, if you know how to PM me and leave your number- that's cool too- if you want.I don't do that often- but....well we're so alike and I have a few years on you- though I'm NOT an old bag- hahah!

    DL

  13. #943
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    dear Karen,
    I don't know how to do the quote thing.
    Do I know what you mean with the "past upbringing " thing? Most definately. Ironically, perhaps, I'm finding this post to be more revealing than all your others COMBINED! Are you wondering whether you took your neurosis and morphed it into a positive? So what if you have? (NOT saying you did), would that be wrong? Would the results be less than "real"?Are you subconciously trying to sabatage yourself and your incremental progress? Are you looking for reasons to feel inadequate? You've done what you've done...Relax, enjoy, and learn to take yes for an answer.
    My best to you,
    moe
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  14. #944
    pgh491 is offline Member
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    DL,
    I'd bet my bippy you are!

  15. #945
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    Moe- glad to crack you up And you are such a nice friend to Karen- that's cool!
    Can someone tell me how to PM? I'd like to give Karen my phone number as I think I can really help- but have no clue! Or Karen, if you know how to PM me and leave your number- that's cool too- if you want.I don't do that often- but....well we're so alike and I have a few years on you- though I'm NOT an old bag- hahah!

    DL
    Hey Girl,

    I have no idea how to PM anyone, and to be 100% honest, it frightens me a bit to talk to someone on the forum....at least RIGHT NOW it does. Please don't take that the wrong way. But we could email each other if you would like? I can give you my email address right here, but don't want to break any forum rules. I'll try to figure out the PM part as I have heard others mention it often. Maybe I wil talk to you at a later time if that's ok with you?

    You're AWESOME,
    Karen

  16. #946
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Desire View Post
    You know Karen? That was a real stupid thing to say. Let's have a pity party for you because you are losing "friends" on a forum designed to help people in desperate situations and YOU MAKE LIGHT OF IT. The sweetness and light thing is harmful to other people on the forum when you look like you breezed through detox and addiction and it's so easy peasy. If it was so easy for you and w/d and being an addict is just a breezy part of life, then maybe you shouldn't be posting here at all. Go be FB buddies with people. This is not what this forum is for. I'm done with you. You are as was said trying to make people here who know what they are talking about look like bullies while you, an addict, in the early stage of recovery knows everything.
    Good Luck.

    Iloerose
    That was a horrible thing to say.[/QUOTE]

    You're absolutely right, Karen, that was a horrible thing to post. But the truth often hurts. I just read a post of yours on someone else's thread telling them how you dropped so easy, just like you couldn't understand what's wrong with them. That's scary. There are people out there right now who are scared to death about what life will bring after they finish their tapers. SCARED BIG TIME because just one more hit, score, or pill may be laying around. You don't know the shatter that's been left by some for others to deal with, have you no guilt or remorse or feeling? Those feelings usually emerge when we start getting sober. It's ******* scary to change your life and try to manage changing it enough to stay clean.

    Iloerose

  17. #947
    dogluver is offline Member
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    MOE! HAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm gonna put my Bippy away. LOL- great post Btw- Karen- so what? If your sunny outlook made your WD or taper easier- YES! As long as you remember the pain of abusing drugs that should be enough
    Over thinking can be a hazard!
    And hey- NO PROB- look you said NO! Good for you! Doesn't hurt my feelings in the least Was that your first time saying "no"? Take care of you- that's cool!

    DL
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  18. #948
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    MOE! HAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm gonna put my Bippy away. LOL- great post Btw- Karen- so what? If your sunny outlook made your WD or taper easier- YES! As long as you remember the pain of abusing drugs that should be enough
    Over thinking can be a hazard!
    And hey- NO PROB- look you said NO! Good for you! Doesn't hurt my feelings in the least Was that your first time saying "no"? Take care of you- that's cool!

    DL
    Ha...YES it was my very first time saying NO in a long, long time! Actually feels good. But I will talk to you, just not right now ok. I think the world of you already and hope we can continue to talk. Either by email or PM first, and then by phone.

    Thanks again,
    Karen
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  19. #949
    dogluver is offline Member
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    Cool- if you get to the point you want to talk- I'm here. And it's probably odd that I offered- I have read your thread since day one so maybe I feel like I know you a bit better than you know me. DO NOT SWEaT it girl- and I hate email. I log on like every 3 days...uck. We'll keep it here- and if you ever want a voice- I'm hear- unless I'm flying
    DL
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  20. #950
    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Dear Rose,
    You've intrigued the hell out of me...
    I've taken Karen's words more as encouraging than deflating but yet your point seems meritorious
    What approach would be more appropriate, in your view? I'm aware of the "no-hope" vs. "false-hope" dicotomy but wonder where the solution may lie. not able to reconcile the impass.
    Thank you, Rose,
    Peace
    Moe

  21. #951
    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Dear DL, How did it feel to go from a DC3 to an L-10
    moe

  22. #952
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    MOE! HAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm gonna put my Bippy away. LOL- great post Btw- Karen- so what? If your sunny outlook made your WD or taper easier- YES! As long as you remember the pain of abusing drugs that should be enough
    Over thinking can be a hazard!
    And hey- NO PROB- look you said NO! Good for you! Doesn't hurt my feelings in the least Was that your first time saying "no"? Take care of you- that's cool!

    DL
    Oh I promise you I will NEVER forget what drugs did to me. It was beyond horrible at times. Horrible enough that I will never want to even look at another pill, or any other kind of drug. And that I will do everything in my power to make sure my little boy never does either.

    I know I'm having random thoughts right now. Almost like having nightmares while you're awake! Scary ???? it is and makes me shake my head in disbelief at some of the things I have done. But hey, I'm here now, and clean and that's a beginning right?!

    I'm trying to figure out when my life turned from belonging to someone else, and then being my own. Think I've got it, but more things interrupt that thinking. I know I could drive myself completely crazy thinking too much. Like you said, it's better to think it through, and just remember before mentioning it out loud.

    This is the PERFECT time to do Surfdog's relaxation drill of being completely silent and still and free your mind. Best deep relaxation I have ever done. Makes me feel so refreshed.

    I know when I get to NA in the morning I am going to have lots to say to the good folks there. I called my sponsor a few minutes ago and talked with her. She said: "what the ???? happened to you today" and made you even happier than you already are. Told her what happened here and she simply said: "I knew you were holding back, but didn't think I was ready to bring up things right now". She has read all the posts and now can see for herself how it is, and was. She's a smart cookie, and has made me think also. And she gives you all huge props here for actually doing her job for her.

    She has been trying to get me to do the same as all of you have for days and days now.

    I know how lucky and blessed I am to have all of the "old timers" here stick with me for so long. Any of them could have just left me to hang and gone on with their business, but they didn't do that. Even the newer members here knew what I was missing and tried their best to open my eyes. I guess when you've been held to certain standards for so long it literally becomes your entire life. But it's MY life now and what I do, or don't do is perfectly OK. I know that now.

    If I can learn more today than I did yesterday, then that's all I can ever ask of myself. I think I've done that and can relax a bit. Not relax so much to become complacent, but to relax my mind and let it all come out BEFORE I bring it up here as you say Dogluver. Very wise words these were, just like everyone else here. I am so blessed to be here right now. It's where I'm supposed to be!

    Karen

  23. #953
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    Cool- if you get to the point you want to talk- I'm here. And it's probably odd that I offered- I have read your thread since day one so maybe I feel like I know you a bit better than you know me. DO NOT SWEaT it girl- and I hate email. I log on like every 3 days...uck. We'll keep it here- and if you ever want a voice- I'm hear- unless I'm flying
    DL
    I was just reading your thread and you really went through alot yourself. So happy you are now clean and doing so much better. I wanted to try and find your age without asking you and I did. LOL. You're certainly no old bag girl! LOL. And I relate to you even more than I previously thought. This is really getting scary as it seems we have so much in common.

    Don't mean to bring up old issues for you, but I feel lonely now just like you did when your ex was there and left. I've had BF's and lots of them, and was going to be married once for certain, and maybe a second time too. But the last guy did me wrong and we split and now I'm finding myself a bit lonely at times for male companionship in my life. I know now is NOT the right time for it, but sometimes I think back to, we did this and we did that and just sit and cry a bit. I really miss some of it.

    I'm sure you understand exactly what I mean. I'm perfectly fine being here with my son, and good friends around me at all times, but having another to just share my dreams with is different. At least that's the way I feel about it right now. Maybe later I will hook up with the right guy for me, and until then I am OK going to NA and meeting others around my area at times.

    Now that I have opened up here a bit more, I can open up to myself and discover even more about ME that I didn't know I was capable of doing? Can't ever thank you enough for your kind words to me. Might still be driving the seniors here nuts. Yesterday was a very long day as REID said. But I got through it and now I'm the better for it.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  24. #954
    MP5
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    Hi Karen, I don't really have time to post much right now, but I wanted to add....Remember at your meeting that one of the "senior" members there, or "old timers" said.... "just live and learn girl, you don't know it yet". " I think they too were trying to subtly get at something that i have noticed here as well. I wish I had time to try to put it into words, but I don't. But.... if you go back and count how many times you have written those words "I KNOW....." and in what context, after just learning, or understanding something. Well, you might start to understand(but still not yet "know") what they may have been trying to get at.


    Mike
    Last edited by ddcmod; 08-08-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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  25. #955
    dogluver is offline Member
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    OMG Karen- I decided to go back and read some and I was a mess. Did you read my first post on "bye for now"- I sounded just like you! Hahahaha! Except I sounded crazy.
    I get why these ppl are concerned- but I also get YOU- so know you will figure it out. It's very rare one comes on so excited- I was similar to you. I wrte one post "having a bad day" and so many (it seemed like) got on and told me I was now "real" cuz I was a mess. Don't get me wrong we have our messes- we just have learned for our entire lives to not look. Just keep looking- re-read the posts. I know that when I was coming off Subs I was a wreck- and now I know it wasn't peri- menopause. What a hellish ordeal.

    Anyhow- I know you know to stay away from men right now...that's what screwed me up (too soon). You're young- figure out what makes you tick first (at the very least a year- better would be two!)

    And slowly you will learn to stop burying stuff- and learn when to stay still...and learn that ther's more to learn!
    Nice you took the time to look at some of my stuff- so GLAD that part is over!

    DL
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  26. #956
    dogluver is offline Member
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    Moe- that went right over my head! I need my Bippy.

  27. #957
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluver View Post
    OMG Karen- I decided to go back and read some and I was a mess. Did you read my first post on "bye for now"- I sounded just like you! Hahahaha! Except I sounded crazy.
    I get why these ppl are concerned- but I also get YOU- so know you will figure it out. It's very rare one comes on so excited- I was similar to you. I wrte one post "having a bad day" and so many (it seemed like) got on and told me I was now "real" cuz I was a mess. Don't get me wrong we have our messes- we just have learned for our entire lives to not look. Just keep looking- re-read the posts. I know that when I was coming off Subs I was a wreck- and now I know it wasn't peri- menopause. What a hellish ordeal.

    Anyhow- I know you know to stay away from men right now...that's what screwed me up (too soon). You're young- figure out what makes you tick first (at the very least a year- better would be two!)

    And slowly you will learn to stop burying stuff- and learn when to stay still...and learn that ther's more to learn!
    Nice you took the time to look at some of my stuff- so GLAD that part is over!

    DL
    HaHaHaHa! Yea, I read that too. You're so funny. I didn't know how much of a mess I really am. Got lots to improve on, but I have learned more today than I did yesterday, so I will go with that for now. Need to re-evaluate my life from the beginning. Can't believe how dense I was. Now it all seems fairly simple and I'll just keep plugging along and try to my best hear, and then really hear what needs to be done.

    Thanks as always for your insight. It is much appreciated girl.

    Karen
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  28. #958
    surfdog is offline Senior Member
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    Bippy? here bippy here good bippy good boy lol Dog
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  29. #959
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP5 View Post
    Hi Karen, I don't really have time to post much right now, but I wanted to add....Remember at your meeting that one of the "senior" members there, or "old timers" said.... "just live and learn girl, you don't know it yet". " I think they too were trying to subtly get at something that i have noticed here as well. I wish I had time to try to put it into words, but I don't. But.... if you go back and count how many times you have written those words "I KNOW....." and in what context, after just learning, or understanding something. Well, you might start to understand(but still not yet "know") what they may have been trying to get at.


    Mike
    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for your words and I do completely agree with you. I just basically nodded my head without really understanding the true meaning of the words. Those in NA were attempting to get me to open up as you say and I didn't get it then either.

    I get what you're saying Mike. No excuses, or any reasons for doing what I did. I take full blame for it all. I need to really try much harder to understand what's being said as it's always to my benefit. And like the old timers at NA always tell me....girl you STILL don't know squat yet.

    Thanks again Mike,

    Karen

  30. #960
    Strong Desire is offline Advanced Member
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    Been thinking long and hard all day now. And what I know is that I don't have to be so perfect now. I can just be ME, and do the things I want to do, good or bad. And I can say NO if I choose to do so. Couldn't do that growing up.

    Funny, but my Minister called me today. Asked if I wanted to meet tonight to go over few things on my mind. Told him I was really tired tonight (true) and that I just wanted to ask him a couple of questions if it was alright. Asked if he thought I was attempting to live a perfect life and his answer startled me.

    He told me he thought I had to have EVERYTHING perfect. The same pew I would sit in every time. The same door I would come in, and leave through a different one. Would talk to most of the same people....in the same exact order! Then said he had been noticing how I would even start our talks together with asking, or rather telling him how sorry I was to be bothering him. And he would always tell me it was OK, it was part of his job.

    What he was getting at was the fact that I was repeating everything in the same order during my weekly Church Service visits, and our talks. I had to look perfect, when others would come in looking well, not as nice he said. LOL. Everything in my world had to be just right.

    He said he had wanted to tell me on so many occasions to just let a few things go and just be myself. Thing is he knows both of my parents very, very well and knows how they have raised me. Knows how demanding they were, and are to this day. He could also see what all of you here have been seeing. I couldn't believe he knew that about me!

    I have now got to speak with both parents. They still to this day expect me to arrive at their home looking a certain way. If they come to my home, which is everyday just about, it has to be spotless, for THEM! OMG....I have to tell them that even though I will always be their daughter, I am no longer that little girl that was their pride and joy, and had to be sooo perfect for THEM.

    I have to tell them what's going on now in my life, even if I have screwed up a few things. I have to let them know their daughter is NOT perfect!

    Karen
    Last edited by Strong Desire; 08-08-2012 at 07:30 PM.

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