Thalia- all help welcomed. Vicodin addiction

[Robert_325]

The use of valium is ONLY suggested if "needed" for four days in the Thomas Recipe. It doesn't call for obtaining a script for valium. You could also use a natural supplement in leiu of the valium.

And I didn't let your first name SLIP, I used it on purpose. I don't "SLIP" on my posts here! I wanted to get your attention. I have no anonymity here, you can find 25 pages on search engines on me by simply typing in my screen name. You keep referrring to me "slipping" by using your name. You needed some humility so I shut your being cocky and whiney down by using your name purposely. It wasn't a slip or an accident.

You come out and talk about being friends with Thomas Kincaid like you are "dropping names" to sound important, then get offended when I call you by name. If you don't want anyone to know who you are then stay with one fictitious person, the one you started with long ago and stop making a big deal out of your name. God bless.

[toni.s.]

cheeky.. i don't think anyone was trying to take the piss at all.
and i don't think there has to be this battle between the 'cheerleaders' and the 'old-timers'
truth of the matter..we need both on here.
Like it was said..and i agree..i don't have enough 'clean-time' to criticize anyone.
all i have to give right now is encouragement.
you guys have the recovery time..and u guys have the wisdom. what u're doing is obviously working. and it's awesome that u're giving back.
sometimes someone just needs a pat on the back too though..you have to keep in mind that we're all different. i was someone that needed support.
so this 'cheering' may seem trivial to a lot of u..but it would have meant the world to me.
in all honesty..it was robert's encouragement that nudged me along to even make the jump.
and the 'pom poms'..put urself in our shoes. ruth is awesome on here. she has amazing advice and wisdom. but the 'cheerleader' comments could be taken wrong. we're not trying to do any harm..we're trying to help too. but in our own limited ways. it was a joke..it lightened the energy..
and it helped me go back and re-read her post. with a lighter mood..i was able to realize that her post wasn't offensive at all..just wisdom..as it so often is when she posts.
anyways...seems she made the jump. can we all just agree to take credit? lol..i'm just kidding. the 'addict' is the only one who can make the choice. but i like to think that you 'old-timers' were able to tell her what she needed to hear. and us 'cheerleaders' were able to cheer her on while she did what she needed to do.
at the end of the day.one less person is out there..and that's all that matters.

[surfdog]

Getting old ain't for sissys is it Cheeky? Easier to tell what I haven't broken lol between playing ball, surfing, rank horses and just other dumb A%$ &^%$ . Bad heart arthritus Spotted fever and the list goes on I hurt every day i get up. Aleve and attitude do make a difference. Hell I feel fortunate just to be still around.lol And I will end my whining session now. lol It's a good day already Cheeky you are quite a lady, I mean a dirt road sport ! (southern compliment) God Bless Surfdog

[ARTIST658]

you guys seem to be making light out of the fact we called thalia on her many layers of bs... i know for a fact i want thalia/sue/jana to succeed. and yes the pom poms sure come in handy, but i bet that tack (scuse the sailing pun) doesnt always work. because, just being cheered on and saying, yes you are absolutely awesome. DOES NOT always cut it. specially when you can see glaring holes in someones idealogy (for want of a better word)
sure, support and hugs go a long way.

sometimes us 'old timers' know when its time to step up to the plate and lay it out like we see it...

i still wont back down from a thing i have said on this thread. and i support ruths stand wholeheartedly....

in my life i NEEDED to hear a lot of things, it made me cry and sad, and mad, i didnt WANT to hear it at all. but it was what i needed to hear. no doubt about it....

so cheer on, but dont take the piss out of people who genuinely care, but dont come across as lovey dovey....

I see that my point was pretty much lost on many, but thank you, Cheeky, for speaking up. <sigh> I'm tired of explaining myself, and I think Cheeky said it well.

My reference to "cheerleaders" was not directed at any specific person. I was referring to the different types of help available in this forum. And, naturally, those who are new are probably best off simply offering a hug and encouragement, rather than trying to jump into giving advice to others!!! I was not trying to demean that kind of support, but trying to explain why my approach often differs.

Please don't make the mistake of presuming that I've "forgotten" the pure hell I went through as an addict! Oh dear God, no matter how many years I get into recovery, that memory burns forever seered into my heart and mind. I wanted to die - and tried to make that happen. And, in my work, I see the ongoing devastation of this horrible disease. I have also tearfully read the obits and attended the funerals of women I've had as clients, who made the choice to pick up after months that they had devoted to in-patient treatment. This disease is one helluva tough opponent.

I see the women who come into treatment with a "little pill problem" - and don't take their recovery seriously enough - and relapse when they leave. If they are very lucky, they make it back. But by then, the problem goes way past abused prescriptions -- and into street drugs, lost marriages, lost children, lost homes, and utterly shattered lives. At that point, many are admitted into treatment as a substitute for jail time. Some have to return to jail when they finish. It's utterly tragic and heartbreaking. If I can spare one woman that devastation, I'll do anything I can.

So when I see someone who is about to take a fall, I take this stuff pretty damned serious. If you folks think that makes me mean - or confrontational - sorry, but that can be what it takes to break past the denial. This disease brings out some traits in ALL of us that are not pretty. Addiction goes hand-in-hand with the deception, lying, blaming and minimizing. Addiction includes a lot of manipulation. That's just par for the course, and not an indication of a "bad" person. Recovery means dropping ALL those traits, if we are to succeed long-term. In recovery, we learn a new depth of true honesty, which includes honesty with ourselves. That's essential to success.

It is love I offer - love enough for my fellow addict that I'll risk appearing a "meanie" - and hope my frankness might save their lives.

Thalia wasn't a brand-new newcomer to recovery. Thalia had stated that she'd had 20 years sober through AA. And so, having that kind of time and recovery, I presumed she would understand the much-needed "tough love" of an honest assessment of what I was seeing. By that point (20 years!), we generally understand how essential it is to hear what we NEED to hear - more than what we WANT to hear.

If I relapsed now, sure, I'd love the hugs and encouragement - but I'd really need is the swift kick to my program to wake me up to the lies my disease was telling me. In fact, I did relapse - after 11 years clean and sober - and what got me back into recovery was a mix of old-timer wisdom and newcomer encouragement. But I HAD to be open to hearing what I didn't WANT to hear - because my disease was screaming so loudly to me in my other ear.

God bless,
Ruth

PS. INMO, benzos are pure evil. I took them as prescribed as a preventative for migraines; I never abused the script. But I had to endure 21 days of constant, unbearable anxiety attacks (which I'd never had before) to get off them. It is a nightmare.

[ARTIST658]

cheeky.. i don't think anyone was trying to take the piss at all.
and i don't think there has to be this battle between the 'cheerleaders' and the 'old-timers'
truth of the matter..we need both on here.
Like it was said..and i agree..i don't have enough 'clean-time' to criticize anyone.
all i have to give right now is encouragement.
you guys have the recovery time..and u guys have the wisdom. what u're doing is obviously working. and it's awesome that u're giving back.
sometimes someone just needs a pat on the back too though..you have to keep in mind that we're all different. i was someone that needed support.
so this 'cheering' may seem trivial to a lot of u..but it would have meant the world to me.
in all honesty..it was robert's encouragement that nudged me along to even make the jump.
and the 'pom poms'..put urself in our shoes. ruth is awesome on here. she has amazing advice and wisdom. but the 'cheerleader' comments could be taken wrong. we're not trying to do any harm..we're trying to help too. but in our own limited ways. it was a joke..it lightened the energy..
and it helped me go back and re-read her post. with a lighter mood..i was able to realize that her post wasn't offensive at all..just wisdom..as it so often is when she posts.
anyways...seems she made the jump. can we all just agree to take credit? lol..i'm just kidding. the 'addict' is the only one who can make the choice. but i like to think that you 'old-timers' were able to tell her what she needed to hear. and us 'cheerleaders' were able to cheer her on while she did what she needed to do.
at the end of the day.one less person is out there..and that's all that matters.

Thank you, Toni. I'm very grateful you were able to read my words in the spirit they were intended.

[toni.s.]

ruth,
i'm sure u remember being new. i was in such a dark place..i attempted suicide but a couple months ago. not because i wanted to die..but because of the despair that comes with using.
i'm just so happy, and grateful be here that i want to 'give it away' if u will. and i'm sure that's the case with all of us new-comers. i feel like it's a secret that i want to share with everyone, because i'm so lucky to have been enlightened to it.
and being that i'm new..i'm still adjusting. i think that people mistake me as simple-minded on here. but in reality.. i was in such a dark place..with such dark thoughts..that i need to change EVERYTHING. the way i think..the way i talk to myself..the way i view myself. that's why i'm positive. a little much at times..but that's the extent to which i have to bring it. i feel like i have to change EVERY thought in my head..constant reassurance and affirmations.
i am so grateful to all of u old timers..and appreicate and admire you all for how much you give back.
you guys changed my life..everytime i see another in recovery..it just reminds me that it can be done.

[Lam34fus51]

"Like it was said..and i agree..i don't have enough 'clean-time' to criticize anyone.
all i have to give right now is encouragement.
you guys have the recovery time..and u guys have the wisdom. what u're doing is obviously working. and it's awesome that u're giving back."

:-) lam

[thalia45]

To Toni, Lam, and Willow : I will just keep posting here on your threads (if they don't "ban" me) I mean, c'mon guys? Enough already. I have just gotten through 5 days of wd, don't feel great, threw out the Valium, every other pill that is not cholesterol or aspirin... and still, what else can I do.

And yes Cheeky, my "hand" problem is age-related (partly), but I have had 3 operations and 100s of hours of PT on that arm to at least make it work again. BTW, this accident was not my fault but the subway construction company's for placing a board wrong over their access hole. All in all, with the countless hours I have now put into being a "lefty" I am probably better off overall.

I give up. There is apparently nothing I can say that is "right" (unless I lie, which I have been trying very hard NOT to do). Re: the Valium. If I have taken more than two a month, that is a lot. Anyway it's gone too now, as I said.

Ok, have at it. I am sure something I have said is fodder for more comments.

Thalia

[thalia45]

The use of valium is ONLY suggested if "needed" for four days in the Thomas Recipe. It doesn't call for obtaining a script for valium. You could also use a natural supplement in leiu of the valium.

And I didn't let your first name SLIP, I used it on purpose. I don't "SLIP" on my posts here! I wanted to get your attention. I have no anonymity here, you can find 25 pages on search engines on me by simply typing in my screen name. You keep referrring to me "slipping" by using your name. You needed some humility so I shut your being cocky and whiney down by using your name purposely. It wasn't a slip or an accident.

You come out and talk about being friends with Thomas Kincaid like you are "dropping names" to sound important, then get offended when I call you by name. If you don't want anyone to know who you are then stay with one fictitious person, the one you started with long ago and stop making a big deal out of your name. God bless.

Robert, I didn't know you meant to do that. Apologies. And obviously I have missed a lot of posts here. I have to leave, but Valium gone...

[surfdog]

Jeez Lady give us a break!What would you tell one of your sponsees if that said they would not have a problem with a drug?It appears we want you to get better worse than you do. . You always close with some statement that leaves you being a victim of "old timers" because we won't pat you on your little pumpkin head and tell you it is OK for you to eat pills and not do what you KNOW is required to be sober.
as far as sympathy I have none for you or any other addict. Empathy yes but not sympathy, that is what kills us. As long as someone feels sorry for us we do not have to accept responsibility for ourselves or our actions" poor thing they are doing the best they can. they can't help it " We can help it and we can do better but we won't as long as we don't have to. as far as your past injuries get over it. We all have past injuries some worse than others. You focus on the negative and don't see the positive, go to a gratitude meeting. Ruth Cheeky Robert and others have done nothing but tell you the truth. And you don't want that.
Please continue to post you will get no more "bashing" from me good luck you need it Surfdog

[Anonymous]

no one is asking you to stop posting.
here's my dilemma.....i have read all your threads since april.
according to them you have used the valium on a fairly long term basis daily.
if that is so......
you need to taper not cold turkey.
i honestly don't know why you would post different usage on different threads at different times.
we don't know you, you don't know us.......we just want you to resolve the conflicts of information given out by you, or we cannot help.
it's truly a life and death situation sometimes that we don't take lightly.
why the heck else would i post on a sunday morning when my grandkids are waiting for me to come over and swim?
it's truly cause we care....but i don't know.....i'm truly confused.
i've seen threads like this happen.....it's when defensiveness gets in the way.
read around and most threads are never ever like this.
i agree with ruth, i was straight up, heads up, look out and buck up because of your long term association with AA and figured that you would not go defensive...........

[ARTIST658]

no one is asking you to stop posting.
here's my dilemma.....i have read all your threads since april.
according to them you have used the valium on a fairly long term basis daily.
if that is so......
you need to taper not cold turkey.
i honestly don't know why you would post different usage on different threads at different times.
we don't know you, you don't know us.......we just want you to resolve the conflicts of information given out by you, or we cannot help.
it's truly a life and death situation sometimes that we don't take lightly.
why the heck else would i post on a sunday morning when my grandkids are waiting for me to come over and swim?
it's truly cause we care....but i don't know.....i'm truly confused.
i've seen threads like this happen.....it's when defensiveness gets in the way.
read around and most threads are never ever like this.
i agree with ruth, i was straight up, heads up, look out and buck up because of your long term association with AA and figured that you would not go defensive...........

<sighhh> Here we go again.

ShadowWally's post left me wondering, so I tried going back through some history to see what was up with the valium. I was concerned about the strength and length of use, as depakote might be needed, to avoid seizures. Well, I didn't see the mention of the valium - I didn't look very long - but what I did see was disturbing.

Less than a month ago (May 17), on another thread, you posted, saying,

"It's not the pills anymore but the drinking HAS to stop now. Really, even harder for me."

Same thread, you also said,

"Well fast forward several years of using drugs, then alcohol then drugs again and so forth with some clean time in between..."

Then on this thread, NO mention of drinking. In fact, I recall a comment you made about at least I didn't go back to the booze - but I do not feel like researching another lie.

What in the world is going on? You've been sponging up feedback, with so many trying to help you - and all the while you leave out this HUGE part -- about returning to drinking? Did that stop? When?

You repeatedly claimed 20 years of sobriety - but clearly, that wasn't true. You had repeated relapses, and even this last one included pills and booze. And you JUST now turned your sponsees over to another sponsor??? You mean to tell us that you were sponsoring women in AA while you were drinking and drugging???

Just 3 days ago, you posted,

"Shadowwally, I was completely 'clean" for so many years,.. I failed at not adding narcotics to a "new"list."

Holy smokes, woman, you are up to your chin in addictive behavior, and telling us half-truths here really makes absolutely zero sense. Why the "pride" or "ego" in such an anonymous forum that is here to help you???

You question me - about why I said that your posts weren't "ringing true" to me. You claim my posts "hurt" you? You try to turn this thread toward me, as some kind of "ogre" for confronting you about dishonesty, when all the while, you are still lying? Seriously, Thalia - why???

On a minor note, did you get married in the last 3 weeks? In May, he was your boyfriend - now he's your husband? You are so lost in your dishonesty that you're lying in places where there's no reason whatsoever to lie...

I really do not know how to get through to you...

[thalia45]

Here are the "truths" as best as I can tell them;

1. Valium - take that when my hand cramps (usually at about 3:30-4) and it is not "every day, it has to do with how much work I have.

2. My real name: Jana- I was not complaining about the use of the name Robert-just that it seemed to be another example of my - whatever, and I did not introduce that name. I thought it was private.

3. Husband/boyfriend - We are not married for personal reasons (no details, thanks Moon for that advice).

4. I have gone through wd hell and this mess. The less said the better I think.

Anyone who cares to talk to me further, has my email.

[thalia45]

Ruth, I admire you and have read your posts for years. Don't waste anymore time on this thread; I would welcome your help and advice, but please email me (or don't- you have spent so much time already).

Robert, same thing. We have corresponded for a long time now, but this thread has turned into a legal sitcom. You have that + another email address-use it or not. I am so worn out with all this, and can't see that there is anything I can say here will not be fodder for more "examination".

[moon6748]

Thalia, I don't want you to have taken my post the wrong way. In no way was I saying for you to not include details, if that's what you wanted, in your posts. I would never tell someone to do that. I was just saying that you have detailed oriented posts....so it might be helpful to go into more detail about what you are going thru in terms of wd (flushing the pills, etc.). Because those things were just relayed in one sentence or so. But I meant maybe do more details on those, in addition to whatever else you wanted to write. These threads really are like journals.

Thalia, I'm so torn over your thread....I guess in my heart I am 1/2 cheerleader and 1/2 ready to call you out. I start to feel badly because I hate to think of someone coming on here looking for help, feeling cornered and never coming back. On the other hand, the great thing about talking to other people, in any form, is that they bring different levels of wisdom and experience. I am in no way and old-timer....but the others here (Ruth, Cheeky, etc.) that are....well part of the wisdom they bring is the ability to see those red-flags. (and truth be told, I could see them too). What good would anyone be if no one called them out on those flags?

O.K., so I'm still ready and willing to support you....but I am a little concerned. Because I also read through your previous posts and saw something. I thought I had read it wrong, so I wasn't going to copy/paste it...but now reading Ruth's last post, I do think it needs clearing up. In a post dated 5/24 to Robert you wrote:

Well, looks like it is time for an update. Robert (and Melinda) you both "know" me and of all the people in the world I think I need to be honest here with you. I seem to have gotten myself down to 7 1/325 Norco per day. I don't know if that is bad or good.

The critical dates for me are June 8th-11th, where I have to be lucid but also physically able (sailing). At 66 this is a delicate balance, as you know. If I can just get through that weekend I can endure any other w/d to get rid of this stuff, but for the sake of the bf, I need to hold it together through that weekend.

One of the curses of being perceived as having it "all together" is that one believes one's own "press". Having done this w/d routine before I can do it again (have the Thomas Recipe down pat, and the gym membership... sooooo, I am going to try to make what I have in my "arsnal" work through then.

I have cut back on the Norco to 6 (not the pie in the sky 4) as of today. Before this trip I would like to get it to 4 (trip begins on the 8th more or less).

As you have heard before my DOC is alcohol, and I have been taking less of that every day (odd that it is so little mentioned here?) and I am an old hand at AA and now probably going to start NA...

I am rambling, but just trying to "journal" I guess.

Did I read that wrong, or were you saying that you were taking less of the alcohol everyday? Again, I'm not asking this to catch you in some lie or say "gotcha". When I say concerned, I truly mean it. Concerned. And my concern would lay in the fact that you've gone to great detail to talk about how you've been sober from alcohol for 20 years, how at least you were protected in that area, etc. The concern and obvious question would be, if as recently as 5/24 you were "taking less alcohol" everyday, then it's hard to 100% believe that the pills are gone too.

I'm not writing this to call you out as a liar or anything like that. I just think that you may still need help, and I would love for you to open up (truthfully) and tell us how to do that for you....

[Anonymous]

word......done........word!

[thalia45]

In the forum I "mod" (alchoholism) on another site, when we get into a "kerfufle" as we call it, like this, it just gets so convoluted we "end" it and start a new thread I am so tired trying to go through what I said in honesty, and yes, drug addled confusion...I give up. I mention that my "real" name is out there (only because I wanted to clarify I have only used two "screen names" here, and the real name came from someone else) and THAT leads to another "examination".

I have to go back to work tomorrow, somewhat "normalized" thanks to Day 6 and help here; thanks all of you.

Sue13 (original screen name)

[moon6748]

O.K., you'll have it your way and I won't post on this thread again. But I reiterate that when you need support and are ready for it, I would still give it to you.

I have to say this though...I'm assuming that you read my post since yours came almost 20 minutes later. I find it odd that you wouldn't respond to my question about recent alcohol use, but instead mention that alcoholism support group that you mod?

[ARTIST658]

Ruth, I admire you and have read your posts for years. Don't waste anymore time on this thread; I would welcome your help and advice, but please email me (or don't- you have spent so much time already).

Robert, same thing. We have corresponded for a long time now, but this thread has turned into a legal sitcom. You have that + another email address-use it or not. I am so worn out with all this, and can't see that there is anything I can say here will not be fodder for more "examination".

We are pointing out your lies to you - and you are acting highly insulted by being confronted. ("legal sitcom" - "fodder for more "examination") The arrogant tone to your reaction doesn't fool me.

Try to pay attention to where the problem lies - the source of the problem is your dishonesty. Addicts love to try to turn things around, to deflect responsibility for their actions. If you weren't repeatedly lying - and continuing to lie - you wouldn't be confronted. None of the "legal sitcom" would ever have occurred.

Moon NEVER said to stop sharing, but you've tried to use Moon's words as an excuse for not being honest when confronted. Basically, Moon was telling you how easily we could see past your lies, as you were short and sweet with details when it came to the significant points that were brought up. And on other topics, you went on at length. Sure made it quite transparent.

I am NOT going to email you, so that we can have a private, discrete conversation and you can "save face." Your pride and your ego are going to trip you up every time. They have already. Recovery means humility - dropping the facade, removing the masks, becoming authentic. Recovery is about complete honesty. Anything you have to say can be said here - openly - just as you openly shared your lies.

If this thread is a legal sitcom to you, then, my dear, you are surely lost. There is NOTHING comedic about this situation. You are a very sick lady, so twisted up in your thought processes that it seems almost impossible to break through to you.

I see you recently posted about being the "mod" (moderator, I presume) for an AA forum. There's the ego and false pride in all it's glory. What are you doing moderating an alcoholism forum if 3 weeks ago you were still drinking?

Here's a novel idea... try telling the TRUTH. Then you don't need a good memory, you don't have to blame anyone else, and you don't have to start a new thread when you're caught.

[Anonymous]

oh my, and now you run away to email land, so this isnt so embarrasing...?

yes you have spent a lot of time on these boards, all over the place, lying your pretty little head off...

you need help alright. but you are not prepared to listen... you want it to be your way. you dont even comment on moons above post, THE BIGGEST LIE EVER... you smokescreen over it by mentioning your other forum. well big deal, we dont all pat you and say good girl, when its obvious you are living a lie..

so, you are not sober at all. 20 years in AA counts for nothing when you have been drinking thru it.

this thread thalia/sue/jana has become like this because of one thing. YOU AND YOUR LACK OF HONESTY...

[Anonymous]

AH ruth, in different words, we say the same thing... yup. yup....

[Anonymous]

Ruth, I admire you and have read your posts for years. Don't waste anymore time on this thread; I would welcome your help and advice, but please email me (or don't- you have spent so much time already).

Robert, same thing. We have corresponded for a long time now, but this thread has turned into a legal sitcom. You have that + another email address-use it or not. I am so worn out with all this, and can't see that there is anything I can say here will not be fodder for more "examination".

ok, last thing im gonna say BUT, THALIA/SUE/JANA you DO NOT WELCOME HELP AND ADVICE. you have argued and been very defensive any time anyone even remotely gets close to helping you...

i tried to be over and out on this thread, but couldnt help myself... its so silly to see a 66 year old woman blame the world for her problems. hah, its not even your fault you fell down a hole and injured your arm, it is the subway people who didnt put a board up properly to cover a hole. jeeeez
even when i had my car crash, i put my hand up, i was careless. i went off the road. no one elses fault but mine....

do you get that.??? do you see you even blame someone else for falling down a hole. ? were you looking ?

omg, i have to get off here

[Anonymous]

ok, last thing im gonna say BUT, THALIA/SUE/JANA you DO NOT WELCOME HELP AND ADVICE. you have argued and been very defensive any time anyone even remotely gets close to helping you...

i tried to be over and out on this thread, but couldnt help myself... its so silly to see a 66 year old woman blame the world for her problems. hah, its not even your fault you fell down a hole and injured your arm, it is the subway people who didnt put a board up properly to cover a hole. jeeeez
even when i had my car crash, i put my hand up, i was careless. i went off the road. no one elses fault but mine....

do you get that.??? do you see you even blame someone else for falling down a hole. ? were you looking ?

omg, i have to get off here

ok, if cheeky gets one more so do i....
i was jumping off 200 mcg's fentanyl patches and never ever did i get so much into a fogged haze that i posted all over the place about different drugs i had taken, then denied it later by saying in my ...drugged or foggy w/d state...
geez......
i gotta get off too......
no more.

[surfdog]

Ruth I wish I had you tact but I don't know I don't have clue, sorry about the rant folks God bless Surfdog

[thalia45]

[deleted - swearing]

[iloerose]

Thalia: When you first came looking for help on tapering, I gave you advice and it went ignored. Basically you were looking for Robert. Maybe you are looking for someone to hold your hand, I don't know. But you have not been HONEST with the people on this board, maybe it's impossible for you to be honest with yourself. You cannot play the blame game, and as Ruth said you are going down a dangerous road with your inconsistencies, out right lies, and convolutions. I really, really hope that you look in the mirror and see what has been going on for what it is: perhaps a cry for attention. No one here likes to drop out on supporting someone who is in pain and in need.
1. The number of norco you take per day is basically nothing and can be gotten over in a matter of days.So
I don't buy the "I can't because the w/d will wreck....."
2. If you can't be truthful with people here who want to help you, I doubt you can be truthful with yourself.
3. Cheerleading is great! and it helps us get through some difficult times, but it sucks to be made a fool of
when someone is consistently lying to you.
4. I sincerely hope that you DO get help. Perhaps private counseling.
5. No one can help you if you are not going to shoulder the responsibility of your own addiction.
6. No one can give you what you want: ABSOLUTION.
7. You want help, quit lying.

Peace,

Iloerose

[thalia45]

O.K., you'll have it your way and I won't post on this thread again. But I reiterate that when you need support and are ready for it, I would still give it to you.

I have to say this though...I'm assuming that you read my post since yours came almost 20 minutes later. I find it odd that you wouldn't respond to my question about recent alcohol use, but instead mention that alcoholism support group that you mod?

Moon, I did post back to you but it has been deleted for swearing I don't know what I said except that I have been a "mess" (I think I used a stronger term with a letter and some asterisks) since the fall, including relying on pills long after I should have quit. Now I have quit again, and am just moving forward.

I am trying very much to do better here. Please help.

Cheeky It was a fall that I had no way of avoiding as it was a misplaced cover of the access hole. It had slipped off the support on one side (invisible from the surface). We settled through mediation, as the construction company admitted responsibility. All I can do now is move forward using the left hand as my main hand; I am getting much better with that, although I doubt it will ever learn the art that my right hand knew.

[thalia45]

Iloerose, I do want the help on this site. I have gotten much and thanks to everyone. I got through wd (with Robert) once before. Now it will be Day 7 (again) tomorrow. Thankfully the worst seems to be over, and all I want to do is be honest, and stay clean.

I don't blame anyone but myself for all these inconsistencies; I have just been so afraid and ashamed that I relapsed.

[thalia45]

Thalia, I don't want you to have taken my post the wrong way. In no way was I saying for you to not include details, if that's what you wanted, in your posts. I would never tell someone to do that. I was just saying that you have detailed oriented posts....so it might be helpful to go into more detail about what you are going thru in terms of wd (flushing the pills, etc.). Because those things were just relayed in one sentence or so. But I meant maybe do more details on those, in addition to whatever else you wanted to write. These threads really are like journals.

Thalia, I'm so torn over your thread....I guess in my heart I am 1/2 cheerleader and 1/2 ready to call you out. I start to feel badly because I hate to think of someone coming on here looking for help, feeling cornered and never coming back. On the other hand, the great thing about talking to other people, in any form, is that they bring different levels of wisdom and experience. I am in no way and old-timer....but the others here (Ruth, Cheeky, etc.) that are....well part of the wisdom they bring is the ability to see those red-flags. (and truth be told, I could see them too). What good would anyone be if no one called them out on those flags?

O.K., so I'm still ready and willing to support you....but I am a little concerned. Because I also read through your previous posts and saw something. I thought I had read it wrong, so I wasn't going to copy/paste it...but now reading Ruth's last post, I do think it needs clearing up. In a post dated 5/24 to Robert you wrote:

Did I read that wrong, or were you saying that you were taking less of the alcohol everyday? Again, I'm not asking this to catch you in some lie or say "gotcha". When I say concerned, I truly mean it. Concerned. And my concern would lay in the fact that you've gone to great detail to talk about how you've been sober from alcohol for 20 years, how at least you were protected in that area, etc. The concern and obvious question would be, if as recently as 5/24 you were "taking less alcohol" everyday, then it's hard to 100% believe that the pills are gone too.

I'm not writing this to call you out as a liar or anything like that. I just think that you may still need help, and I would love for you to open up (truthfully) and tell us how to do that for you....

MOON I quit the alcohol (again) 2+ years ago; all the years before (starting 1974) were sober (from alcohol) most of that time but not sequentially. What I was saying was that the FEAR about wd from pills (again) was scaring me immensely because I was so afraid the drinking might begin again. Since I have almost finished a week sober from pills, and will take no more Valium, I just want to move forward. Certainly I have lied, but the last few years I have been a wreck. In fact it is the loss of the ability to focus that scared me into coming here again to try to get straight.

[thalia45]

Back to bed. I humbly ask for any help moving forward with my recovery.