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subutex used for pain!
  1. #1
    jdrees2009 is offline New Member
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    Exclamation subutex used for pain!

    I have suffered with serious pain for many years. I have been placed on subutex not for addiction but for cronic pain relief! I would like to know just (2)two things about this (1) Frist off how long can this treatment last and what can the long term effects be?(2)I know that you can't take any other narcotic pain killers with this medication!, so If in the event I have an accident that requires more pain relief what non-narcoti drugs should or could be used? I don't drink nor do do any drugs for fun or recreation I'm only concerned for my self and the snanity /peace of mind for my family!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please NO FOOLISH RESPONE'S
    Last edited by jdrees2009; 02-20-2009 at 01:18 AM.
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  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdrees2009 View Post
    I have suffered with serious pain for many years. I have been plced on subutex not for addiction but for cronic pain relief! I would like to know just (2)two things about this (1) Frist off how long can this treatment last and what canthe long term effects be?(2)I know that you can't take any other narcotic pain killers with this medication!, soIf in the event I have an accident that requires more pain relief what non-narcoti drugs should or could be used? I don't drink nor do do any drugs for fun or recreation I'm only concerned for my self and the snanity /peace of mind for my family!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please NO FOOLISH RESPONE'S



    If I may ask WHAT type of chronic pain relief are you speaking of? The reason I ask this is that I am in constant communication with the Chief of Staff of probably the largest rehab hospital in Houston. I know this dr very well personally on a first name basis. We talk about sub therapy regularly. He even asks me questions about how I advise people to use sub on this forum. We were even on this forum together a couple weeks ago and he was reading some of the threads here with me on subs. So he is very open minded in comparison to most drs I know who RX subs. I have a lot of respect for him. Most everyone will tell you that subutex/suboxone are NO good for any type of pain relief. Here is the real deal.

    Buprenorphine is the opiate drug in subutex. Contrary to popular opinion it does have pain relief capabilities. The thing is that it doesn't have the euphoric qualities of things like oxy or hydrocodone so most pill heads will say it doesn't work because you don't get any high off it. You don't even really feel it when you take it properly.

    The dr I was just referring to has tried to actually convince me to use it for my rheumatoid arthritis pain which is chronic in nature. I have refrained simply because I don't want to take any pain medication other than my ibuprofen. But I will say that IF I were to take a pain med for a chronic condition I would be willing to try buprenorphine for two simple reasons. First it doesn't get you high, so secondly I would NOT be inclined to abuse it like I would oxy for example. I would personally be less inclined to develop an addiction or dependency to the buprenorphine where I know that if I began taking oxy again I would be strung out on it again in no time.

    I will tell you though that this dr I refer to has told me that if one is going to take buprenorphine for chronic pain only a very low dose is required .... as in 2mg per day or thereabouts. None of this 8mg or 16mg per day like you hear about people taking for opiate addiction.

    So my concerns first are WHAT condition would you be considering taking it for, how much is the dr recommending that you take and for how long would you be on it ?

    If you were in a serious accident and were on a high dose of buprenorphine it would be difficult to get the pain relief you would need from a reasonable dose of a RX opiate. However if you were on a small dose like the 2mg I mentioned you might have to take a little extra oxy in the event of a car wreck but it would work with a little more than normal.

    Don't misunderstand me, I am NOT recommending that you take buprenorphine for chronic pain. I'm simply trying to objectively answer your question. I still choose personally to deal with my pain using ibuprofen and it works pretty well for me. But buprenorphine CAN be used effectively under certain circumstances for chronic pain control as long as the pain is within reason. Hope that clears this up for you. Now I will probably have people wanting to argue this point with me but what else is new. God bless.
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    Marlin007 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdrees2009 View Post
    I have suffered with serious pain for many years. I have been placed on subutex not for addiction but for cronic pain relief! I would like to know just (2)two things about this (1) Frist off how long can this treatment last and what can the long term effects be?(2)I know that you can't take any other narcotic pain killers with this medication!, so If in the event I have an accident that requires more pain relief what non-narcoti drugs should or could be used? I don't drink nor do do any drugs for fun or recreation I'm only concerned for my self and the snanity /peace of mind for my family!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please NO FOOLISH RESPONE'S

    Well you have already had a response by the most learned member of the forum so there is not much I can add or should since Robert is much more experienced than I. However I can give you my own personal experience from which you might benefit. I have been on suboxone for about 2 months now and went on it because despite doing everything the "right" way, i.e. Going to one doctor and being treated with meds only by him, same pharmacy, follow all the other treatment modalities in conjuction with the meds like PT, accupuncture, nerve blocks, chiro ,massage, you get the point. However I still, after having been on the norco for awhile, started to lose the therapeutic value of the usual dose and began having to take more and more to achieve the desired effect. For me I didnt get the euphoria the pills simply numbed my pain to allow me an acceptable quality of life.

    As my tolerance grew my doctor had no problem increasing my dose so I just continued on my merry way. However the meds soon became as about as useful as putting a kid's superman bandaid on a gaping wound. I found myself having to take the meds just to avoid feeling unpleasant and after a few very unsuccessful cold turkey attempts I knew I was in trouble. It would not be long before supply would not meet demand and the roller coaster ride of taking a pill, feeling okay, 4-5 hours later starting to withdraw and so having to dose again and again and again was too much. The stress of running low on pills and wondering if I would make it to my next appt was truly unbearable so I decided I needed to do something, quickly.

    Upon seeing the sub doctor I was given the standard induction with the 2 mg pieces every hour and initially stabilized on 12 mg that first day. My Doctor said I could take as much as I needed and that suboxone had a "ceiling effect" at 32 mg so I didnt have to worry about taking too much. She eventually had me stay at 20- 24 mg a day. However after lurking on here for a few months, both prior to and then on the sub, I had read many threads and in particular the posts by Robert which truly amazed me that someone was willing to put so much time and effort to help complete strangers. I quickly bought into what Robert was saying and within 2 weeks went from 24mg a day to my current 8 mg per day. However at no point from 24 to 8 mgs daily did I ever have any pain relief.

    The suboxone has been great doing its intended job, staving off opiate withdrawals, but I have had some side effects which I think resulted from the naloxone. However when I asked my doctor to switch to subutex (even these last few months I went from borderline diabetes to full blown diabetic despite improving my diet and cutting out sugars by 80% of what I used to intake yet the sub was the only other change and it happened in 2 months what the doctor said would normally take a year in terms of out of control blood sugars) the doctor said that it was for inpatient only and that they used suboxone so that the sub couldnt be abused specifically intravenously. I told her that I had never taken hard drugs in my life and I was the one who told the doctor I was stopping the opiates for pain relief so there was zero chance that I would abuse the sub. But no I would still only be given the suboxone.

    In any event, the sub has done absolutely zero for pain relief, though as everyone says in here it is an opiate but only a partial agonist at that. The pain relieving qualities for most people are negligible but there is always a chance that you might be one of the minority and it helps you. I however am in a lot of pain daily from my back issues and chronic tension headaches, of which the sub seems to have made the headaches worse and irritated my gums from having to take it sublingually. I have decided that there is no more benefit to staying on the sub so its time to begin my taper. As for my pain issues I have been given Ultram, which is surprising because it also binds to the same mu receptors that opiates do yet has such a low affinity for the receptor(1/6000th that of morphine) it has no chance of getting through the sub to attach to any of the receptors. I have done some research and supposedly though not totally understood there is an interaction by the ultram which helps serotonin reuptake and I believe dopamine levels so people on sub still can get some affect from it. Personally I never got anything from it before I started the opiate regimen and now either. I have also tried nortryptiline for its off label benefit of supposedly helping chronic headaches. I tried it for 2 weeks and it did nothing for the pain but did give me some weird unwanted side effects that AD's tend to do so I immediately stopped taking it. I have an appt with a Neurologist in a few weeks so I am praying he can do something to get me out of my daily misery.

    So anyway I guess I have given you a lot more than you initially asked for so I apologize for going off on a few tangents but bottom line for me anyway was the sub did absolutely nothing for my pain and so if you are thinking of taking it to help with pain, IMHO there are far better meds out there to help you than taking the slight chance that suboxone will give you pain relief. Good luck and I hope you find something to help you soon..



    Marlin
    Last edited by Marlin007; 02-21-2009 at 02:29 PM. Reason: forgot my smiley

  4. #4
    jim123456 is offline New Member
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    Default 14 yr chronic pain /morphine oral & 8 yrs morphine pump

    subutex

    had to do detox due to bowel problems & believed nerves became hiper due to 14 yrs of morphine. 18 operatios due to back injury did detox in hospital was placed on subutex & anti inflamorary. read info on how subutex tricks brain it is getting olphids. never had withdrawels but i was shocked it help with the pain. i was on 6mg x daily then reduced to 4 mg x daily
    the difference i have found[ been on subutex now 3 weeks] the pain is more accute not dull as before bowels working as they should been 5 yrs since bowel problems.
    so with most medications morphine, methadone ect the dose just does not work after 1 month to 6 month have to increase again & again. with very little help this was true with the morphine pump as well.
    now on subutex just waiting for the other shoe to fall as we say ! when i stop my pain meds before to just see if i am doing better i ended up in herman hospitl blood pressure 245 over 215. they sedate me and we start over.
    has anyone used this subutex for over a 6 month to 1 yr period for pain ??? my pain doctor says they have many folks on the mediation but i dont believe him. it ws a mistake i got this drug as far a pain was concerned. it was given in case of withdrawels !!!!! no one in the hospital knew anything about pain relief.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 08-01-2010 at 02:36 PM.

  5. #5
    AshleyPsyD is offline New Member
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    Default Hi there!

    I don't know how old this particular post is, but I have been reading through the responses, and knew I had to say something. I am a 26 year old Professional Psychologist, with 4 years of medicinal personal and professional experience.

    With buprenorphine? I have personal experience!

    You are going to be fine! Do not allow people to scare you because you are on this drug. It IS a wonderful drug for chronic pain releief, and the addiction rate is ridiculously low. Though, admittedly, I have had to take 2 - 8 mg pills at once in the past (for severe back pain), I have never found myself popping these pills the way I would have to pop addictive narcotic medications to obtain pain relief.

    About an emergency....I have had 2 such medical emergencies since being put on 3-4 8 mg Subutex per day. One was VERY serious, and I was in ICU for 2 weeks. I was so out of it that I was unable to tell the doctors of nurses "No narcotics!!!" So they immediately started me on 4 mgs of Dilaudid + 25 mg Phenergan every 2 hours. I had no bad side effects whatsoever, and my pain was completely controlled from the Diulaudid. I did not go into withdrawals or DTs, I did not scream out in pain because the IV was not working. All that happened was I woke up in the ICU, asked them what they were giving me, and that was that. I was surprised that I was completely out of pain and having no issues whatsoever, having been on Subutex for a year. At the time I was 24 and scared of being labeled an 'addict', so I did not tell any of the hospital doctors I was on Buprenorphine. I stayed in ICU for 2 weeks, got lots of pain relief and was super high the entire time (I would have been bawling my eyes out if I hadn't been high, unfortunately, watching my family cry and being afraid of dying myself). I cannot guarantee every experience will match my own, I can only tell you what happened personally.

    Also, I had tummy tuck surgery on my abdominen last week. In this case, my surgeon and the anestisioloIogist both knew I was on Bupe. They understood my fears and calmed me significantly, and ordered me enough Dilaudid and Demerol to keep me out of pain, and 10 mg Percocets for out of the hospital. After a few days, I'm feeling great! I am back on my Buprenorphine, and having very little pain.

    So, there ya go. Buprenorphine is a great drug, and in the case of emergencies, your receptors can be unblocked to allow you to "feel" pain medication in every sense of the word. I am also on Bupe for chronic pain, not for addiction, because it takes way too many narcotics to keep me out of pain (this has been proven during surgery, as it takes a "ridiculous amount of sedative and narcotic" to keep me out. The doctor's words!) I have had the following side effects:

    - Sleepiness (this is no joke! Be careful with this one, it may effect work)
    - Elevated mood (this happens directly after taking it and it evens out)
    - Some light anxiety

    Will you feel 5 or 10 mg Lortabs the day after taking Bupe? Absolutely not. You would need many of them to get that euphoric 'high' one initially gets. But why would you want it? That leads to addiction. All that matters is that you are comfortable and out of pain. And with or without Bupe, narcotics and Bupe itself will control moderate to severe pain.
    Best of luck in your endeavors, and I hope you're doing well!
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  6. #6
    daniaug is offline New Member
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    Hi there Ashley, I was so impressed with your helpful and enthusiastic description of your experience with buprenorphine, that I had to post. I am on suboxone right now for chronic pain. I know that most doctors here are not educated on it's pain relieving potential, like in other countries where it has been used safely for 10+ yrs, but I am glad my doctor was familiar with the concept.

    I initially was put on it to help get off the opiates I was on for fibromyalgia and endometriosis. I have suffered with chronic pain for years and got addicted to narcotics over that time period. They tried many different medications, including anti-depressants, savella, lyrica (which made me gain a ton of weight) and tramadol without success. And while the narcotic meds worked, they also came with a hefty emotional and psychological price tag.

    I developed a tolerance for meds after being put on and off them for many years. First it was for my endometriosis (4 lesions removed laproscopically). I could not function for a week every month. But it was after my C-section that I really developed a bigger problem. I was in tremendous pain from the surgery (fibro makes all your pain that much worse) and I went though post delivery depression. I was overwhelmed with how I was going to manage caring for a child while in debilitating pain. And so I was on a lot of pain medication for a few months afterwards. It really turned into a personal nightmare and I could only thank God when I learned about buprenorphine.

    The suboxone has really improved the quality of my life so much that I have wondered how long I can be on this and still get the benefit. I am hoping that it will serve me as long as I need it. I also have wondered as to what to do in the instance of scheduled surgery. After reading your post, I was like...I gotta talk to my doc about whether going on subutex would be ideal for something like that- in the event I needed additional short term narcotic medication. It may be a better option just to go on subutex for the long haul for a variety of reasons.

    Anyways, I would love to chat with you further about your experience with Buprenorphine. There is only so much non-generic info out there and it would be so helpful to learn more from your unique perspective. I don't see an option to email other directly here yet, but then I just opened a profile up today. Let me know if you might like to trade emails.
    Thanks so much- Dani

  7. #7
    karaboo is offline Senior Member
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    Dani--

    Subs are addictive. All you have to do is read some of the sub posts around here to realize that. It is a powerful narcotic with a nasty withdrawal if nit tapered properly. Read more posts brfore jumping on this med, at the very least you will be well-informed
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  8. #8
    Subworks is offline New Member
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    There's no doubt going off Subutex (which I take) or Suboxone will cause withdrawals, but (I'm not sure if it was in this thread) it's not immediate - you could start feeling "hitchy" in anywhere from 36-72 hrs.

    It is an absolute fact that Buprenorphine works for pain. While it's mainly prescribed for opiate-addicted patients to get them off Vicodin and related drugs, there has been extensive research into the pain-relief qualities.

    What is hard for some people grasp is this: As you take Vicodin (I'll just use that term as it' the most common opiate) you build a tolerance to it, and the dosage has to increase - and that's whether you take it to get high or for pain. I have degenerative disc disease (DDD) and have had several surgeries to keep bone from hitting bone, nerves, whatever. My previous Orthopedic Surgeon, when I told him (after being on Vicodin AND Soma for a year) he switched to Norco (the jet-fuel version of Vicodin - double the 500mg dose with no Tylenol); when the tolerance built up, he prescribed a more frequent dose. It was nuts! I got SO bad I ended up getting "leftovers" from friends and relatives and even stooped so low as to swipe a few I found in a bathroom cabinet.

    The pain relief you get has been lowered so that what WOULD be tolerable the nerves read as "train wreck" - I could hardly walk unless it was within the first hour of a dose.

    Luckily a family member in the medical field knew of a pain specialist - actualy a pain and addiction specialist. He explained clearly (in a way I can't do on the web) that Buprenorphine treatment would get me off the nasty stuff AND relieve the pain with no tolerance problems, ever.

    I'll TRY to explain it - Vicodin works like a roller coaster, except you take it at the TOP of the hill (where the severe pain is, the effectiveness increases as you roll to the bottom (the most relief AND high) and then you ride right back up. You repeat this cycle - but the bottom of the coaster keeps moving up and what was a "1" (on the 1-10 pain scale) becomes a "2" - but only by your brain tricking itself. The pain is on top of the hill, but the relief keeps moving up with the "bottom of the hill" ever-closer to the top.

    Your pain receptors (could be the wrong term, but it's close) tell you you need to get to what is now a basement far below the bottom of the hill, and you alway come up short because the ride to the top gets shorter and shorter. You either get help or OD, because the *apparent* pain is exponentially worse than the REAL pain would be if you had taken NO medication.

    Buprenorphine does two things - first, it fools your brain into thinking you took Vicodin and the withdrawal symptoms disappear in roughly 20 minutes of your first dose (after not taking Vicodin for 12 hours - and you need someone to watch over you, because you'll be freaking out. But the second effect is the one that is so tightly controlled - pain relief. It's a lower level of relief than the "spike/high" of Vicodin, but the little-understood (even by most doctors) is that with no tolerance building the pain relief stays level - initially you think it's about a 2 or 3 if you were in the 8-10 range at your worst points, but as your body gets used to it, and with no high or variance in pain levels, your brain adjusts and within (this can vary) days you may not notice ANY pain at all except in the morning after not taking any for 10 hours or so (and for those who do not know, Suboxone is Burenorphine blended with something that will make you feel like you've ben hit by a truck if you "cheat" and take Vicodin - Subutex is just Buprenorphine and doesn't have that "preventative care/scare" additive).

    For acute pain (dental work, injury) you CAN take Vicodin, but the prescribing doctor should talk to your pain specialist FIRST as a larger than normal dose will be required...and prescribing TOO much (or too little) can really mess you up.

    Also, if you have surgery on a local the doctor HAS TO pay attention to you current meds list, Buprenorphine in particular...because "normal" doses may do nothing (I had a recent series of tests that should not have been painful and done during "twilight" time- not quite general anasthesia but most are knocked out - they were horrible as the doc didn't pay attention. My mouth was blocked so I couldn't tell him I was WIDE awake and my pain was about a 15! I now carry a card with information on it.

    Hopefully someday Buprenorphine will be more commonly prescribed. It IS addictive, but not abused as much as other drugs because there is no buzz if taken normally. But it literally saved my life - my back is still bad, but I can walk, ride a bike - even surf. I just watch lifting heavy objects. And the biggest breakthrough was really affordability - the generic version just became available this year and 30 day's supply is $7; Subutex was over $200. But I would have paid DOUBLE that if I knew what I know now.

    I'm a big, fairly active guy - but I take 4 8mg sublingual tablets a day and side effects are ZERO.

    I hope this helps someone who has been "on the fence" about seeing a pain specialist who is able to prescribe it.
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  9. #9
    roosterwes is offline New Member
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    Default You havent a clue what ur talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    If I may ask WHAT type of chronic pain relief are you speaking of? The reason I ask this is that I am in constant communication with the Chief of Staff of probably the largest rehab hospital in Houston. I know this dr very well personally on a first name basis. We talk about sub therapy regularly. He even asks me questions about how I advise people to use sub on this forum. We were even on this forum together a couple weeks ago and he was reading some of the threads here with me on subs. So he is very open minded in comparison to most drs I know who RX subs. I have a lot of respect for him. Most everyone will tell you that subutex/suboxone are NO good for any type of pain relief. Here is the real deal.

    Buprenorphine is the opiate drug in subutex. Contrary to popular opinion it does have pain relief capabilities. The thing is that it doesn't have the euphoric qualities of things like oxy or hydrocodone so most pill heads will say it doesn't work because you don't get any high off it. You don't even really feel it when you take it properly.

    The dr I was just referring to has tried to actually convince me to use it for my rheumatoid arthritis pain which is chronic in nature. I have refrained simply because I don't want to take any pain medication other than my ibuprofen. But I will say that IF I were to take a pain med for a chronic condition I would be willing to try buprenorphine for two simple reasons. First it doesn't get you high, so secondly I would NOT be inclined to abuse it like I would oxy for example. I would personally be less inclined to develop an addiction or dependency to the buprenorphine where I know that if I began taking oxy again I would be strung out on it again in no time.

    I will tell you though that this dr I refer to has told me that if one is going to take buprenorphine for chronic pain only a very low dose is required .... as in 2mg per day or thereabouts. None of this 8mg or 16mg per day like you hear about people taking for opiate addiction.

    So my concerns first are WHAT condition would you be considering taking it for, how much is the dr recommending that you take and for how long would you be on it ?

    If you were in a serious accident and were on a high dose of buprenorphine it would be difficult to get the pain relief you would need from a reasonable dose of a RX opiate. However if you were on a small dose like the 2mg I mentioned you might have to take a little extra oxy in the event of a car wreck but it would work with a little more than normal.

    Don't misunderstand me, I am NOT recommending that you take buprenorphine for chronic pain. I'm simply trying to objectively answer your question. I still choose personally to deal with my pain using ibuprofen and it works pretty well for me. But buprenorphine CAN be used effectively under certain circumstances for chronic pain control as long as the pain is within reason. Hope that clears this up for you. Now I will probably have people wanting to argue this point with me but what else is new. God bless.
    I have taken 8mg subutex for three yrs. i have rheumatoid arthritis. During this time, Ive had several operations. Each time, they have relieved my pain by using hydromorphone or 20mg of percocet every two hours after operation. You need to carry a card in ur wallet, in case of emergency, soo they will know what to give you. Ive never run out early, felt high, or had withdrawals. It is miracle medicine. Everyone in need should use it instead of hydro, ocy etc. take it from someone who knows and takes it.

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterwes View Post
    I have taken 8mg subutex for three yrs. i have rheumatoid arthritis. During this time, Ive had several operations. Each time, they have relieved my pain by using hydromorphone or 20mg of percocet every two hours after operation. You need to carry a card in ur wallet, in case of emergency, soo they will know what to give you. Ive never run out early, felt high, or had withdrawals. It is miracle medicine. Everyone in need should use it instead of hydro, ocy etc. take it from someone who knows and takes it.



    Thank goodness that someone who knows everything FINALLY showed up here to straighten out everyone! It must be great to have so much knowledge and also to be so humble. You're a troll! Don't need someone coming on here with their first post telling me I don't know anything about subs. Forgot more than you'll ever know about subs dude! Have a wonderful day. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #11
    backinthesaddle37 is offline New Member
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    I too was RX subutex for pain management. I have neber been an addict and do not tolerate nwrcotics well b/c of the crasy feeling they give me. I dont like feeling the hugh and they make me sick an EXTREMELY moody. My doc showef me an journal article supporting its use for pain mgmt at low doses and even mood stabalization. Since my accident and surgery I need something b,c I gobble down the NSAIDS in desperation even though I know better. I didnt yhink I would be embarrassed to fill it but... pharmacy thinks its primary indication is addiction mgmt. I felt embarrassed. I then wuestioned her right back and tactfully suggest she do some research b,c it has been used in certain pain mgmt vases.. in fact they even give it to cats after spaying and other animals as well. Some docs experiment on its mood stabalizing effects as well. Read up on and do plenty of research. No med comes eithout risk and NOT ONE person is the same as to how their body chemistry functions.

  12. #12
    backinthesaddle37 is offline New Member
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    FYI, everyones brain/body are DIFFERENT. What works one way for one person may not work the same for others. I have felt high on just 1 mg. I too was prescribed this med for chronic pain. It works, for me, no better than any narc. When I decided after a couple of weeks that the "stoned" side effects werent for me. I felt and still feel w/d. Mod/severe nausea, mod anxiety, tired like you wouldnt beleive, tearfulness, insomnia, muscle twitches AND pain and aches worse than before I started these. Again, I am super sensitive to some meds. I posted in other forums here asking about this drug when I first got it but unfortunately my question was not directly answered which in turn frustrated me. I wish I would have seen roberts post before as I would NOT have chosen to take this med.
    I now still feel like I need the subs to start my day. I have taken other narcs and NEVER had this issue. I felt like ???? when I stopped but didnt have the need to take feeling.
    Again, everyone is DIFFERENT. It is not ok for you to advise "Everyone" to use it instead of short acting narcs. You may take it but your obviously NOT educated or you would never make such a bold uneducated statement.

  13. #13
    backinthesaddle37 is offline New Member
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    Sorry for the spelling.. sux typing on a nook

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    backinthesaddle37 is offline New Member
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    And My comments were directed towards diamondelite or whatever it said haha

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    cntrymama37 is offline Junior Member
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    It can work for pain. It is given in an oral solution in vet med and injectable as well. Every person is different in how they respond. This drug, like any opiate type causes dependence. You will more than likely experience some sort of w/d when d/cing this. If it works for you dont worry about the what if's. Make sure you have a medic alert or something w/you indicating you are on this. The pain can still be managed in the event of an emergency and a scheduled surgery would require you to most likely taper down the dose. You have to decide if its right for you. Untreated pain also has adverse long term effects on the body and can hinder healing and cause illness, not to mention loss of sanity Good luck to you! I hope you and your healthcare team come up with a decent plan. Please be as open and honest as possible w/your team at all times for the best outcome

  16. #16
    cntrymama37 is offline Junior Member
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    Agree..I was told by my doc that they werent, i could stop whenever without any w/d. I was rx them for pain. When i decided to stop, even at .5 a day for 30 days.. i was miserable. I couldnt control my emotions, couldnt leave my room and had pain so deep in my bones it was awful. Also had muscle fasiculations everywhere. I am super sensitive though. I had moderate w/d once from percs 10mg per day for a month postop.... everyone is different
    My hubby who is same height and weight 5 5 145, can have MUCH more for a month or two then just stop and feels nothing..he thinks Im nuts when I now refuse pain meds.

  17. #17
    cntrymama37 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by roosterwes View Post
    I have taken 8mg subutex for three yrs. i have rheumatoid arthritis. During this time, Ive had several operations. Each time, they have relieved my pain by using hydromorphone or 20mg of percocet every two hours after operation. You need to carry a card in ur wallet, in case of emergency, soo they will know what to give you. Ive never run out early, felt high, or had withdrawals. It is miracle medicine. Everyone in need should use it instead of hydro, ocy etc. take it from someone who knows and takes it.
    Uneducated about the drug it seems. Glad it works for you but do NOT think you should recommend it for EVERYONE. No one person is the same. If you ever tried to stop taking this drug you would be singing a different tune.

  18. #18
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Main thing about using buprenorphine for pain is that it's best used in very small doses, like maybe 2mg daily and for chronic pain only. Have to be careful using this for pain medication. Doesn't get you high in most cases, so we don't start living an "addict lifestyle" but it's strong and very addictive. I don't suggest it for long term use, that's just me.

    My dr tried to get me to use buprenorphine for my RA as I couldn't use the drugs most people with RA inject. I just toughed it out, changed my lifestyle, got exercise and drastically changed my eating habits and the autoimmune problems have improved. Something to think about, the body will almost cure itself if we put the right nutrients into it and don't just fill it up with drugs. I would never judge a true chronic pain patient however. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  19. #19
    Haviannie is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Expert help required from the u.k

    Hi this is my first time posting after reading quite a lot . I live in England and very little here seems to be known about subtex.

    I will give a brief history of what I've been through and then I have a few questions for the experts on here.

    Approx 11 years ago whilst 33 weeks pregnant with my 2nd child I slipped a disc in my lower back, they got me to 37 weeks and had to do a spinal block c/section. Coming around from this I was left in chronic pain on my right side , from my neck, shoulder, back down to the disc. We have a national health service in the u.k so was seen by orthopaedic surgeons, consultants and a dedicated pain management team. They had me on a cocktail of drugs including amytriptiline and tramadol which caused me to fit. The medication they settled on which worked for me was oxycontin.

    I was left on oxycontin for 2 years, in this time the dr I saw just kept 'upping' my dosage were I ended up on nearly 3 times the max dose ( that was all prescribed from my dr, I've never purchased either a legal or illegal drug in my life).

    Towards the end of those 2 years I realised I had become addicted to the oxycontin so I went back to another dr for help. He referred me to a specialist clinic were I would go through a short methadone programme and then onto this new wonder drug called subtex ! Even the methadone programme caused problems has a pharmacists wrongly decanted liquid tamazapan for me rather than the methadone , her defence ? They were both the same colour!, if it hadn't have been for my high tolerance level that day it could have been a different story.

    I was initially put on 8mg of subutex which at first levelled me out until the pain came back with a vengeance, I was back and forth to my dr and all he did was increase my dosage!

    So to present day , I was on 32mg of subutex for 8 long years. It was only a couple of months ago during routine tests that they found I had liver and kidney problems which they ' thought' could be associated with the subutex. I didn't have the luxury of doing a long taper as they recommended I came of ASAP. So I had to book into a private detox clinic for a rapid detox at the cost of over £10,000 GBP.

    I came down from 32 mg in just 17 days will just mild w/d. However, today is my 3 week anniversary of being completely clean of subutex. I know everyone is different but I can honestly say I've never been through and am still going through such pain in my life. Every single muscle in my body has ached and twitched 24/7 . I've never experienced anxiety like it , it feels like a balloon around my heart and a brick on my chest, I have absolutely no energy which I think is due to the insomnia as I only get about 2 hours in every 24 plus I have zero appetite, it's literally killing me. However I do have to take stock and notice my getting better, 2 weeks ago I couldn't even walk up the stairs to bed as my leg muscles burnt, now I manage to get up so it's little victory's.

    So I have a few questions for learned members of this forum

    1. From reading posts it would seem 'upping' my dose to 32mg was absolutely pointless for pain management.
    2. If the dr says he put me on subs for addiction surely I should have been tapered down and got off this years ago.
    3. Is there any known long term problems associated with being on the max dosage for all those years., more importantly is it known if subutex can cause liver and kidney problems? Like I said it was by accident I found out about my medical problems, in all those years I never had a liver or kidney function test, infact I only had 4 reviews in 8 years which lasted a matter of seconds.
    4. Should there be regular tests when on subutex ?

    I'm angry with my dr right now, I just want to collate as much information as I can before I confront him and ask why ?
    Many thanks in anticipation of a reply, I would really appreciate any help or info from you guys.
    And finally to anyone who is coming of subs at the moment if I can do it I'm pretty sure anyone who wants to can. My heart is with you all.

    ( this is my very first post and it looks to me like I'm double posting......... I had write and then re write it, anyway if I have apologies in advance, if I haven't just ignore me, I'm not feeling my best )

    Take care to you all.
    A69 likes this.

  20. #20
    halwatkins2 is offline New Member
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    I have suffered from Chronic Back pain for 15 years or more, have been on percocet 10s and 30 mg morphine ER. I recently switched to Subutex 8mg x 2 a day and feel pretty good. I still have breakthrough pain and take Tramadol for this. It is my understanding that at 8mg subs twice daily all my receptors are covered and there should be no need for additional pain relief. I believe my depression also lifted significantly and my thinking has cleared. I appreciate most the lack of peaks and valleys with the perc 10s. The Morphine makes me sleepy, so I only used it at night. I have some sleepless nights with Subutex but all in all I think it better than opiates. Time will tell, I have tried on several occasions to get something for additional pain breakthrough but My doctor declined. I learned from this site about Tramadol use with Subutex and it has worked for me. Once again, my pain/ addiction specialist psychiatrist and I are working toward "Well Being" feeling with tolerable pain. I think
    that is all I can offer you. Don't stay stuck in a bad situation. I was suicidal from something changing a few weeks ago, not sure what happened but white knuckled it for a few days. I do not recommend this. I ended up writing my last letter, you know what I mean. If you find yourself in a crisis, GET HELP!
    Glad you guys are here, learn a lot from everyone. I forgot to mention, I have a script for Xanax and it must absolutely be used with extreme caution with Subutex. A friend used both one night and did not wake up, sad thing was the papers reported it as a "Drug Overdose" as if he was a junkie or something. Watch out for Xanax and Subutex combo!!

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