[Azbowhunter]

I've been poking around and reading some of the posts. My heart goes out to all who are suffering withdrawl for I am a long time user and tried many many times to quit but have failed day two or three into it. Since those days my Dr. put me on Methadone for pain. I realized I was at the end of my road when I was on 200 mg a day the last 3 months. It was then I realized I was at the end of the road. It was no longer detox cold turkey for 4-8 days (which I never made) but rather now 6 weeks - 6 months of Wd"s. What do I do? I don't have the will power to taper. I defenitly will not go cold turkey. so I poked around for help and came across a web site thate offered detox with no pain but for about 36-40 hours of withdrawl. I thought that was great Ive made that many times. this is what they call the flip day when you stop all Opiates and suffer withdrawl. Then they slowly start you on Subutex. I thought I was gonna be feeling great when I started as I read from many testimonies. OMG. what it did was throw me into the worst withdrawl i have ever ever experianced. I called my nurse every 2 hours as she wanted me to. and she was a little confused why. But she did tell me that I was on alot of methadone and it may have been that it wasn't all out of my system before westarted. It took me on week of withdrawl and being on 32 mg of subutex for the first 2 weeks. She told me I would look back on this in a week and would be greatful. Well she was right. One week later I was 90 percent. 2 weeks later 100 percent and have now started tapering 4mg every 5 days until im at lower doses. then the taper gets smaller mg per 5 days.
I thank god that as of today I am three weeks off of methadone and functioning well. Its gonna be a long road and there are to mant people who have had great succes with it. With Methadone I think this is the best method.
I was reading a post by laker32 and my heart went out to him. But I think he was dealing with more than just withdrawl from sub but benzos also for I know this by experiance. I was withdrawing from same while detoxing on Methadone. I would say to anyone who doesn't have the will power to face withdrawl get the Sub. It works. Especailly for Methadone users. My dose was higher than most but no matter what the dose. Methadone withdrawl is the worst and whether 20 mg or 200. only with higher doses it takes some strength to get through some of the withdrawl. But well worth it. Better to be one week than 6 weeks to 6 or more months. Agreed?
Robert, I really apreciate your compassion and advice you give these people. Im not done yet. But on the road to recovery. The one thing I hate about the being on the Subutex is I am now dealing with some emotions I never knew i had. OMG. I'm a broken man this last week. I have a question to any who know. is this normal. I have been seeing a Phycothearapist for over 4 months and it was her who leaned me to quit, But she seems to think it's normal to be emotional. Has anyone ever dealt with this? If anyone has any questions to this I would love to help to my best ability. Thanks all and I look forward to meeting and posting with many of ya.
Bart

[Robert_325]

Hi Bart ... congratulations on your success so far! Sounds like you are doing great. As far as the emotions go ... hell yes it's normal. We hide from our emotions for years behind different substances, some of us hide for decades. We have to learn how to deal with real life issues just like a kid growing up if we've done drugs for long enough. Hang in there. As long as you don't use it will continue to get better every day. Stay in touch and keep us posted how you are doing.

How much subutex are you taking now each day??? I am curious as 32mg is a huge dose. If that is what it took for you initially, that is fine. Just hate to see you stay at too high of a dose. That's why I am curious where you are right now.

[Azbowhunter]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the encouragment. The first week they had me take 5 80mg oxycontins twice a day for the first week. then they had me on 4 8 mg tabs a day until 4 days ago. Now I'm at 28 mg 3.5 tabs. 2 more days then I drop to 3 8mg tabs. It took a while to stablize me at 32 mg. I'm still have few symptoms but for the most part doing good. I was on alot of Methadone. I'm afraid that I'm gonna have to stay on a little longer than their reccomended 7 week program. Do you think that 7 weeks is to short for methadone? my nurse who calls me everyday said that Subutex has a way of pulling opiates off the receptors. But I know it's in my organs also. Anyway, what are your thoughts on that. you seem to be real informed in this forum. I know your not a Dr.? I think. I've read alot of your posts and your a great help to people. Thanks! I look forward to your response. Or anyones.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Azbowhunter

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the encouragment. The first week they had me take 5 80mg oxycontins twice a day for the first week. then they had me on 4 8 mg tabs a day until 4 days ago. Now I'm at 28 mg 3.5 tabs. 2 more days then I drop to 3 8mg tabs. It took a while to stablize me at 32 mg. I'm still have few symptoms but for the most part doing good. I was on alot of Methadone. I'm afraid that I'm gonna have to stay on a little longer than their reccomended 7 week program. Do you think that 7 weeks is to short for methadone? my nurse who calls me everyday said that Subutex has a way of pulling opiates off the receptors. But I know it's in my organs also. Anyway, what are your thoughts on that. you seem to be real informed in this forum. I know your not a Dr.? I think. I've read alot of your posts and your a great help to people. Thanks! I look forward to your response. Or anyones.

Bart ... there isn't a set amount of this medication that a person should take for a particular addiction history. Often people who use extreme amounts of opiates for extended periods of time stay on it longer and at higher doses than say someone who used a few hydros a day. That makes sense of course. But I only took 12mg a day for 3 days, then 8mg a day for three weeks and then tapered for another three weeks max and was done. I had no problems whatsoever. But we are all different.

The thing is that you need to stay on the sub as long as you need it. How long is that? It's hard to tell. I think the only person who can really tell is you. Most doctors will recommend that someone with a history like mine, or a history like yours should stay on it for a longer period of time to avoid a likely relapse and to allow our receptors time to heal from the damage that was done during our opiate abuse. But if we stay on it too long, then we develop another dependency and end up having a tough time when we stop taking the medication. Or else we have to do a taper that lasts for months. That is certainly better than engaging in extreme behaviors like we did when using so many drugs, but I would rather avoid all of this if possible. So my advice is to not allow the doctors or anyone else to convince you that they know how long you need this medication. I don't think they really know for sure. I know that I don't know for sure. There are too many conflicting opinions. If there was one right answer everyone would say the same thing. That makes sense to me anyway.

I think that as long as you are having trouble with being stable, then you are not ready to start tapering off it yet. You definitely need to be stable first. So you have to use your own head with this. Don't be controlled by what other people tell you. Only you know how you feel. But just as soon as you are feeling good, as soon as possible thereafter you should start to taper off in my opinion. The taper process will depend on where you are at dosage-wise when you begin to taper and how long you were taking the subutex when you begin to taper. That was why I asked what dose you were at currently.

Right now I would recommend that you follow the suggestions that you are being given. You seem to be doing well. I wouldn't mess with that. But I would not want to stay at a particular dose for an extended period of time. It's relatively easy to reduce your dose while you are at a high amount. You can knock off 4mg with no problem when you are at 24mg. So I would try to drop to 20mg, then 16mg, then 12mg and then to 8mg with only short intervals in between. After you get to 8mg then you will need to start reducing in smaller amounts. Just stay in touch and let us know how you are doing. Good luck and God bless.

[janet941]

Originally Posted by Azbowhunter

I would say to anyone who doesn't have the will power to face withdrawl get the Sub. It works. Especailly for Methadone users. My dose was higher than most but no matter what the dose. Methadone withdrawl is the worst and whether 20 mg or 200. only with higher doses it takes some strength to get through some of the withdrawl. But well worth it. Better to be one week than 6 weeks to 6 or more months. Agreed?
The one thing I hate about the being on the Subutex is I am now dealing with some emotions I never knew i had. OMG. I'm a broken man this last week. I have a question to any who know. But she seems to think it's normal to be emotional. Has anyone ever dealt with this?
Bart

I did the same thing as you. I have been told by methadone maintenance person that I never reached a good maintenance level and that's why it didn't work for me. I was actually tired of being under total control of methadone and those who provide it. When I tried tapering off methadone, I would cry at the drop of a hat, serious depression. This is extremely bad at work as you can imagine. I haven't had the emotional experience with Suboxone however. My first experience with Suboxone was going from methadone (70mg) to suboxone. At that time there weren't many places that prescribed sub so I was given meds for 3 days (of course having to take off work) then placed on Suboxone. I remember it was a whole "big thing", but that was from meth to sub. After that I stupidly started taking painkillers again and soon became addicted to Norco w/uneeded prescription. This time however it was much easier going from pills and short term opiates. No big drawn out process, just a scrip and I was feeling better almost immediately. I do however need to get off the sub now, which has led me to this site. As for the emotions coming off methadone, yes, I have had that experience and it is just awful – worst thing ever. I don't know what I would have done without the sub though, I believe it is a Godsend. Hope I can remember that when detoxing from it.

[Azbowhunter]

Hi Janet,
I'm glad to hear you started sub and you can get off it. If you need a recipe I can give you the one my Dr. gave me. I just need to know how much your taking and I will look on my papers to see where that is at.
I have one question though. Did you take the Norcos while you were on the Sub? I hope to hear from you soon.
Bart

[janet941]

Bart,
Haven't been back on in awhile. Sure I'd like the recipe! As for your other question – If I was having dental work done or something like that I would just not take my suboxone for a couple of days so when I did have to take my pain medication it would actually work, nowhere near how they used to however. For some reason Ultram works much better (for me) then the Vicodin, Norco, whatever. I could take my sub in the am and the next morning take a couple of Ultram and they kill the pain. Who knows maybe the sub "magically" messes up your receptors to anything that you used to get off on. I asked the question on an earlier post and I think it was "Cat" that explained the differences in Ultram and Lortab, Vic, etc. very succinctly. I got a bottle of 90 around the beginning of 2008, am supposed to take 3 8mg per day. I still have a good deal of them since I lost my insurance and have been doing some research on the internet. I have the hexagonal orange pills. I read on another site to get down to the smallest dosage you can and I was at 1 to 2 a day. The problem is I haven't found a pill cutter that can cut this particular shape into increments that I need. Have you ever seen anything like that?

[janet941]

i checked back in today to see about that recipe. i noticed on my previous post i said 1 to 2 a day (i meant milligrams, not entire 8mg pills). i have been quartering them and take 1 half of the quarter (1mg) in am and (1mg) sometime throughout the day. one of the tapering suggestions i have seen on here suggests really small doses, say .5mg and i just can't get that accurate with these 8mg tablets. i may have to bite the bullet and go back and get some of the smaller ones. anyway i would really be interested in your plan. have a great weekend!

[sisterwin2]

I hate to horn in here but seeing the dosages you guys are on is settleling my soul. I was put on 40mg per day of sub. I started from meth also but I was not on a meth progran. I just use the drug because it was easy to get when I couldnt get oxycontin or good enough H. My daily intake of dope was about 70mg of meth cut into two doses and everything else I could get my hands on. Being in the medical field that was quite a bit.

So I am seeing that Maybe my dose of 40 of sub is not that unusual. whewwwwwwwwwwww. I also think I am understanding that the first two weeks It ok to be on that dose but then begin the wean? looks like you"ll are cutting 4 mg every 4 days? Pls let me know if I am misunderstandng you.

Sister

[sisterwin2]

Reading back maybe I was wrong..... so u jump over from meth to 32 mg of sub per day x2wks... then the wean began............ will you pls post how your wean went and how your doing now.

Pretty please.... I dont want to be out here on my own and need much help since I dont have the trust nor the support your getting from your doc's.

ty for sharing if you chose too,
if not I do understand.

Sister

[Robert_325]

Janet ... it is hard to cut the pills when you start with an 8mg pill and get to 2mg and try to cut smaller. About all you can do is get to a sliver. That is close enough at that small dose. I just cut it as best I could when doing it. The pills turn to powder if you cut too small. Sometimes the 2mg pills are easier to work with at low doses.

sister ... I still don't think drs ever have to keep people on 32mg or 40mg. POSSIBLY for a day or two for some strange reason I guess is possible. I used TONS of opiates and 12mg subutex stabilized me then I went straight to 8mg. I had a really good dr when I look back and see how others are treated. My dr really knew what he was doing with dosing meds and never charged a bunch either like lots of the suboxone drs do. Just do this like we talked about on the other thread and you will be just fine.

[bev49]

You sound knowledgeable. I wonder if you can answer my question. My problem switching from meth to sub is not my dose. I am on 20 for 3 years now. It is the duration. I have been on a meth program for....... 33 years. It embarrasses me to even write that. There is never any encouragement to get off. I admit it did help me as I was a heroin addict in the 60s and 70s but enough is enough. I start sub tomorrow. Does the fact that I am on meth for so long have any bearing as to my chance for success? I am desperate to succeed. I am too old and weary and too stigmatized to continue with a methadone clinic. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Another question, if you are on sub and you need surgery (I've had 3 major so far) and you need pain meds. what happens as I understand sub puts you into instant withdrawal if you take pain meds. That is certainly scary. Thank you in advance

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

You sound knowledgeable. I wonder if you can answer my question. My problem switching from meth to sub is not my dose. I am on 20 for 3 years now. It is the duration. I have been on a meth program for....... 33 years. It embarrasses me to even write that. There is never any encouragement to get off. I admit it did help me as I was a heroin addict in the 60s and 70s but enough is enough. I start sub tomorrow. Does the fact that I am on meth for so long have any bearing as to my chance for success? I am desperate to succeed. I am too old and weary and too stigmatized to continue with a methadone clinic. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Another question, if you are on sub and you need surgery (I've had 3 major so far) and you need pain meds. what happens as I understand sub puts you into instant withdrawal if you take pain meds. That is certainly scary. Thank you in advance

Suboxone doesn't put you into precipitated w/d from using opiates, the naloxone in it puts you into precipitated w/d if you inject opiates. That is a common misconception. You just don't usually feel the effects of opiates if you are on suboxone. If you have to undergo surgery while on suboxone it's best to stay off it for 3-4 days so you will do better in surgery. Of course that puts you into suboxone w/d for a short time, but its a price we have to pay if we want to use it.

I haven't personally talked to anyone who has switched from methadone to suboxone after so many years as you on methadone. I obviously have to wonder "WHY SWITCH???" at this point but you already explained. I would not be embarrassed for using methadone. It's lots better than shooting junk. I have seen some people who were on methadone therapy for several years and they made the switch okay. Methadone has an incredibly long half life so I would plan on staying on the suboxone a good while. Are you planning on staying on it permanently or do you want to get off everything??? Have you been on methadone all this time for addiction treatment or pain management too???

[bev49]

Thank for your reply, Robert. I have been on methadone to stop a heroin addiction. I started heroin in 1965 and got on meth in 1975 and time just seemed to fly by. In NY, no one ever says "try to detox" or even go lower in dose. It's a big business here. I decreaced to 20 on my own about 3 years ago. I have to get off methadone. One, I am sick of the stigma attached and the tie I have to a clinic, having to ask permission to go on vacation, etc., and also, I am going to Virginia in Sept for 6 months to care for grandkids while there father, my son, a single parent, is in the military in Africa. Coming from NY where there are many meth programs, I was shocked to see that there is only one in his area and the fee is more than 3x that of my clinic and they don't give take homes (I'm on 1x a week here). So I have to do it. Pray for me please .

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

Thank for your reply, Robert. I have been on methadone to stop a heroin addiction. I started heroin in 1965 and got on meth in 1975 and time just seemed to fly by. In NY, no one ever says "try to detox" or even go lower in dose. It's a big business here. I decreaced to 20 on my own about 3 years ago. I have to get off methadone. One, I am sick of the stigma attached and the tie I have to a clinic, having to ask permission to go on vacation, etc., and also, I am going to Virginia in Sept for 6 months to care for grandkids while there father, my son, a single parent, is in the military in Africa. Coming from NY where there are many meth programs, I was shocked to see that there is only one in his area and the fee is more than 3x that of my clinic and they don't give take homes (I'm on 1x a week here). So I have to do it. Pray for me please .

I will pray for you Bev. I understand what you are saying. I don't know for sure how it will work with the suboxone dr when you go to Virginia. Guess you will have to switch drs while you are there. Your local dr might frown on that but so be it. I wouldn't go into explaining all that with a local dr. Just get started on the suboxone where you are and try to have a full month's script when you go to Virginia so you will have time to meet with a new dr when you get there. It's relatively easy to find drs who prescribe suboxone. Finding the best drs is the important thing. Make sure you get all the charges up front on the phone. Some of these sub drs are charging ridiculous amounts of money for services and medication. Keep us posted. Good luck.

[bev49]

I am moving to virginia in sept. and found a doctor there who charges $125 a visit as opposed to straight insurance here in NYC. What alternative do I have? None. I think and my doctor confirmed that I will have to be on sub much longer than most people because of being on methadone for a ridiculous 33 years. Day 3 and I'm stable on 16 mgs. a day. I am going to go to 12 then 8 within weeks but the doctor says not to rush it after that. Methadone is probably a part of my physiological composition I would imagine after such a long time on it. The doc says I will need to be on sub at least six months if not more. By that time I should be on 2 mgs a day then he says I can go to 1/2 a 2 mg. tab a day then every other day than every 3rd day. This is the doctors plan. I hope to God it works. But for now, I am stable. And not having to worry about going to a meth clinic is a godsend.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

I am moving to virginia in sept. and found a doctor there who charges $125 a visit as opposed to straight insurance here in NYC. What alternative do I have? None. I think and my doctor confirmed that I will have to be on sub much longer than most people because of being on methadone for a ridiculous 33 years. Day 3 and I'm stable on 16 mgs. a day. I am going to go to 12 then 8 within weeks but the doctor says not to rush it after that. Methadone is probably a part of my physiological composition I would imagine after such a long time on it. The doc says I will need to be on sub at least six months if not more. By that time I should be on 2 mgs a day then he says I can go to 1/2 a 2 mg. tab a day then every other day than every 3rd day. This is the doctors plan. I hope to God it works. But for now, I am stable. And not having to worry about going to a meth clinic is a godsend.

You just answered my question from your other post. You are at 16mg. That is okay for your history probably. I actually think that you would probably do well at 12mg now. You will be okay at 12mg as soon as you jump I am confident. You usually drop after you are inducted at a particular dose. I started at 12mg for three days. Then I was only at 8mg a day and I abused opiates big time for decades too. I agree that you probably need to take the subutex longer than someone else might, but the dose shouldn't have to be too much higher. That is my opinion anyway. I bet if you lowered your dose to 12mg and didn't take any medication after say 4:00 PM you would sleep better. That is just me. Not saying to blow off what the doc says.

[bev49]

Robert, your advice is always so good. With my history, I thought I would need the max of 32 mgs. 16 was fine and I'm going down to 12 tomorrow (heard that from you). I thought I would need several tabs a day but I am taking it 2x a day and I am fine (heard THAT from you). I thought I would need it right before bedtime to hold me, but I now take the last dose before 5 p.m. and I sleep better (Heard THAT ALSO from you).. My doctor here in NY is great, but you have really supplemented what I've learned from him and I am so greatful.

[rob1776]

How long should we wait after last dose of methadone, then switch to Oxycontin during Methadone detox, then last dose of Oxycontin?

My girlfriend was on 95mg of methadone daily for about four years. Her last dose of Methadone was Thursday Sept. 4th at about noon. Her friend paid $3,500 to a Center to guide and prescribe her through her detox two weeks ago. We have done our best to follow the plan that worked for her friend without the $3,500 price tag.

Thursday Sept. 4th 12:00pm 90mg of Methadone (LAST DOSE!)

Friday Sept. 5th 6:00pm 40mg of Oxycontin plus assorted nausea meds blood pressure meds and ambien.

Saturday Sept. 6th Early afternoon she was in pain and yelling and having a hard time sleeping: she took 80mg of Oxycontin plus the nausea meds blood pressure meds and ambien. Slept most of the day after the meds and has been much more civil since. We were worried about having enough Oxycontin to help her through the detox before subutex. Her friend used a total of 860mg of Oxycontin to get through this period (we only had 600mg total for my girlfriend). My girlfriend didn't use much of the Oxycontin at first because of the guilt of using it again (it had been her drug of choice) and the worry of not having enough. Since Saturday afternoon's freakout she has taken the Oxycontin anytime she felt any withdrawal and has slept most of the time since but been rather pleasant when she was awake and only feeling mild withdrawal symptoms.

Sunday Sept. 7th Oxycontin as needed along with nausea meds blood pressure meds and ambien

Monday Sept. 8th Oxycontin as needed along with nausea meds blood pressure meds and ambien. Last dose of Oxycontin 20mg at 5pm.

Now we wait before she takes the Subutex, her friend said she was advised to wait as long as possible (at least 24 hours) and she was able to wait 51 hours. My girlfriend starting worrying about how long she could wait and had to wait almost immediately after the last dose of Oxycontin. I am worried too, her violent outburst on Saturday afternoon is a huge concern, but I don't want her to go through the hardcore withdrawal that I have read about from taking the Subutex too soon.

My goal is to get legitimate advice on how long to wait and to provide free information on how to get through this detox. The Methadone clinic my girlfriend attended saved her life but also took over her life and never wanted to let her go. They made it nearly impossible to reduce your daily dose and were constantly changing their hours of operation and demanding she attend different groups and see her counselor every week and taking away take homes. She has not been able to establish a normal schedule or get a regular job, she also had issues with her drivers license (as many patients do) which has effected my work schedule adversely. I know the problems the clinic can cause. We were 10 minutes late the day before Christmas Eve and had to survive the holidays as she detoxed!

Please reply ASAP, I will answer any questions and give any and all specifics

[sisterwin2]

I went from about 70mg of meth and other dope (oxy's, ir's) I only waited about 40 hours and it was not enough.... I was thown in wd.

Since she has not been on the meth since I think you said the 4th I would wait at least 42 to 50 hours or slightly more from the oxy's.... actually since she has been taken so much oxy wait 50 hours.... the wd will be bad but when she takes the sub it will all go away.. There is on the sub site a scale to go by called the COWS and this would be the safest .... go to the suboxone,com and look up the COWS. this way you will be sure that she/he is wd enough. YOU WANT THIS TO BE SUCCESSFUL>

Take the time to look it up.... you have the time since she is NOT READY yet. I would do it for you but I have to go to work and I just didnt want you to get impatient. EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO BREAKING DOWN DRUGS... pending on liver, kidney etc.... so look up the COWS< be good to her.

after the 50th hour or when you hit 26 ont he COWS take 8mg of sub... wait one hour ..... if not totally out of wd take anther 4mg... wait one hour.... if not out of wd then take 2mg more untill wd is gone... she should be ok at this dose but if not take 2mg more untill she is.... do not exceed 24mg.... REMEMBER THE LOWER THE DOSE THE BETTER> MOst folks can do with 16 mg of sub.... the higher dose does not make you better there is a cap off that the drug will do no more


PLS take the time to look up the COWS scale..... untill she hit 26 on that scale make her take hot baths.... that is all she will be able to do right now. I wish you all the luck. She is doing the right thing and it will help 100% I did it myself, though my doc did NOT go by the COWS and I paid dearly for that mistake.

ROB will be here to help out I know.... LISTEN TO HIM,

SISTER.

[sisterwin2]

ok..... my assistant will start the day for me at work and I have an hour to help you out.. I am going to get the cows for you.

Sister

[sisterwin2]

Ok............ since you have time to do this right I suggest you to read this
http/www.pcssmetor.org.....

this will give you everything you need from the horse mouth... the company that put the suboxone on the market.

I can not stress how important it is to be sure she is in wd enough for this to be an easy induction.

We are all here for you and between all the successful folks who have gone this route, all your question can be answered with experience behind them.

Good luck

Sister

[rob1776]

Update on my girlfriend, she is on Suboxone now and did not go into crazy withdrawal! The program worked for her and her friend. She is having some cold chills, her skin is warm to the touch, but she says everything is clear now like a cloud has been lifted off of everything. It's kind of weird we have been together for about 5 years and she keeps staring at me like she just met me.

The program took less than a week to go from 95mg of Methadone daily for 4 years to Suboxone. We were scared a couple of times, she said some mean things a few times, slept most of the time, she experienced some skin crawling and muscle cramping and chills for 20-30 minutes the first night and again on day two. She says the experience was like going through a moderate flu for a few days, but nothing in comparison to even a Hydrocodene detox. I realize everybody says to get your daily Methadone dose down to 30mg daily or less before switching, but she has fought the clinic to reduce her daily dose so many times and we couldn't play their games for another 6 months.

Her friend paid the ridiculous sum of $3,500 to a Detox Coordinator in Chicago to get a plan that included a bunch of prescriptions and a list of when to take them and she was given phone support from a Nurse. Fortunately for us her friend was able to get double the prescriptions so my girlfriend was able to mimic the plan with the extra meds.

Everyone is different and there are so many contributing factors involved, but this worked for my girlfriend: NOTE: My girlfriend is also prescribed 100mg of Zoloft and Xanax 1-3mg daily and took them both throughout.

Thursday Sept. 4th 1:00pm: 95mg Methadone taken orally LAST DOSE!
Days 1-4 Friday Sept. 5th 5:00pm-Monday Sept. 8th 5:00pm
Oxycontin 30 20mg tablets taken daily for wd sypmtoms, wait 24hrs after last Methadone dose and take 80mg on first dose of Oxycontin. Her friend was given 860mg and it was even easier for her to get through the detox.
Ambien 1-2 pills nightly as a sleep aid
Clonidine .1mg (blood pressure med, but bottle says it helps for skin crawling & muscle tension) 1 pill at bedtime or as needed
Zolpidem (same as Phenergan) 1-2 daily for day nausea
Promethazine 25mg 1-2 nightly for nausea

Day 4 Notes: Last dose of Oxycontin was 20mg at 5:00pm, withdrawal symptoms began around 10:00pm and I started blogging on this post for help because I didn't think she could wait 24-48 hours as the doctor had advised. Her friend waited 51 hours after her last Oxycontin dose. My girlfriend snuck and took her first 8mg Subutex when I was asleep sometime between 3 & 4am. I know we are so ridiculously lucky she didn't have serious wd! She only waited 10-11 hours after her last Oxycontin and 110-111 hours after her last Methadone dose.
Day 5 Tuesday Sept. 9th: She took 4mg Subutex in the morning waited 40min still felt wd symptoms and took another 4mg of Subutex.
Day 6 Wednesday Sept. 10th Suboxone 4mg in the morning

[Robert_325]

I am very happy that this is working for your girlfriend. We are all different. I don't claim to have all the answers. But I have to go with the numbers when talking to large numbers. That only makes sense. And I have to point out the possible problems when someone is doing something that goes against the grain. Know you understand. But I always like to hear how a different way of doing something is working.

One thing that isn't just the law of large numbers. Please have your girlfriend stop taking the benzos while on suboxone. That is bad news. Don't care who you are. Really serious for possible respiratory depression. I mean it's a real risk, not some distant pie in the sky thing.

[rob1776]

I agree wholeheartedly Robert-325, I worry about the Xanax she takes and I don't like it at all to put it mildly. In fact I am one of those hard headed people that only takes advil when all else fails and I have a hard time showing empathy for people that try to convince me that they have to have anti-depressants, which pisses my girlfriend off. Both my girlfriend and her friend are now on Suboxone and Xanax.

I am trying to get my girlfriend to read some of these posts and get involved to get the support she needs, but she is still getting her strength back and is not a computer person like me.

Anyway, she has shown signs of respiratory problems that a young thin and healthy woman should not have and I would like her to find an alternative that is safe. She asked me to ask you why is she chilling? No other withdrawal symptoms, "she needs more blankets and less blankets at the same time!" She has taken 4mg of suboxone at 8am and then at noon she took another 4mg it is now 1:30pm and she is still chilling and her skin is hot to the touch.

She says she will have to talk to her personal Doctor about finding an alternative to the Xanax she used to be on Lexipro with Methadone and she didn't nod out from the Lexipro. How does Lexipro do with Suboxone? I would love to see her just taking the Suboxone, but she is already taking the Zoloft and the Xanax and now the Suboxone.

I am interested in suggestions and hope she will be as well.

[Robert_325]

Not only is she taking xanax but she is taking a pretty high dose if she is taking 3mg a day. Xanax is typically RX at .25mg - .5mg three times a day. That is standard. And she is at least doubling that plus taking the suboxone. This is dangerous not just something she should think about. I would be throwing a fit if I were you. If she got mad at me that would simply be too bad. I am not judging her I am concerned.

She would be better off with the antidepressants than the benzos. I think they are over prescribed too but she can only do so much at once. If she could dump the benzos that could really help her. But she will need a replacement med that she can wean off with. Stopping the xanax abruptly will just put her into another detox. And benzo detox totally sucks. She doesn't need another detox right now but she does need to be off the benzos.

I always suggest the lowest possible dose of suboxone. But it needs to stop the w/d symptoms. If she isn't stabilized she is spinning her wheels. It doesn't sound to me like she is stabilized yet based on her symptoms. If she is having chills and yet is hot to the touch then she isn't out of w/d yet. I would probably have her take another 4mg. Remember she is coming off a lot of methadone. Wait an hour and see if she doesn't feel better with another 4mg. Once a person is stabilized they stay at that dose for three days. Then they can drop back on the dose by 25% and still will do just as good. So if she was at 12mg for a couple more days she could drop back to 8mg on Friday. I bet you that would work. Let me know. Good luck.

[stylngurl]

Hello All,
I am currently taking 60mg of methadone. I started treatment July1st. I had been popping pills on and off for a couple of years and the last 3 months before I started treatment I was using Heroine and Oxy's IV. I really was looking for a detox program and somehow ended up on methadone as a maintinence drug. Now I want off of the Methadone. The clinic I goto wants to phase me down to 30mg of Methadone and then start me on a 16 day detox with suboxone. Can someone tell me if this sounds right? I am all new to this. Sometimes I think i should go back to using and phase off Heroine and detox myself....BUT I am not going too...Am I gonna have bad withdrawl this way?

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by stylngurl

Hello All,
I am currently taking 60mg of methadone. I started treatment July1st. I had been popping pills on and off for a couple of years and the last 3 months before I started treatment I was using Heroine and Oxy's IV. I really was looking for a detox program and somehow ended up on methadone as a maintinence drug. Now I want off of the Methadone. The clinic I goto wants to phase me down to 30mg of Methadone and then start me on a 16 day detox with suboxone. Can someone tell me if this sounds right? I am all new to this. Sometimes I think i should go back to using and phase off Heroine and detox myself....BUT I am not going too...Am I gonna have bad withdrawl this way?

hi gurl .. I really wish they would have put you on subutex instead of methadone for these last three months. That was not very bright in my opinion. Methadone isn't meant to be a drug that is used for only 90 days. Subutex all the way would have made lots more sense. But you are where you are.

Yes you need to be at 30mg or less of methadone to make the switch to subutex/suboxone. Once you titrate down to 30mg and are ready to be inducted into sub therapy be sure and let us know what is happening. Can help make some suggestions that will help you at that time. Good luck and God bless.

[stylngurl]

Thank you so much for your reply. I meet with the doctor on Friday so wish me luck. I hope since I have only been on the Methadone since July the withdrawls won't be that bad. I am so scared. Thanks again.

[cherry14]

Originally Posted by rob1776

Update on my girlfriend, she is on Suboxone now and did not go into crazy withdrawal! The program worked for her and her friend. She is having some cold chills, her skin is warm to the touch, but she says everything is clear now like a cloud has been lifted off of everything. It's kind of weird we have been together for about 5 years and she keeps staring at me like she just met me.

The program took less than a week to go from 95mg of Methadone daily for 4 years to Suboxone. We were scared a couple of times, she said some mean things a few times, slept most of the time, she experienced some skin crawling and muscle cramping and chills for 20-30 minutes the first night and again on day two. She says the experience was like going through a moderate flu for a few days, but nothing in comparison to even a Hydrocodene detox. I realize everybody says to get your daily Methadone dose down to 30mg daily or less before switching, but she has fought the clinic to reduce her daily dose so many times and we couldn't play their games for another 6 months.

Her friend paid the ridiculous sum of $3,500 to a Detox Coordinator in Chicago to get a plan that included a bunch of prescriptions and a list of when to take them and she was given phone support from a Nurse. Fortunately for us her friend was able to get double the prescriptions so my girlfriend was able to mimic the plan with the extra meds.

Everyone is different and there are so many contributing factors involved, but this worked for my girlfriend: NOTE: My girlfriend is also prescribed 100mg of Zoloft and Xanax 1-3mg daily and took them both throughout.

Thursday Sept. 4th 1:00pm: 95mg Methadone taken orally LAST DOSE!
Days 1-4 Friday Sept. 5th 5:00pm-M