[silusbotwin]

@Robert_325
First off let me give you thanks in advance. I've read quite a bit of threads here and you are obviously a compassionate educated individual, and you have answered everyone's cries for help.

I have been on Suboxone for approximately a year now. For three years straight I had a bad opiate habit. I would steal, cheat, lie, or do whatever it took to get more pills. Vicodin, Percocet, Vicaprofren, dilaudid, oxycodone, tylenol w/codeine, vicodin syrup, and oxycontin No further explanation on this bit should be necessary, as I'm sure you have been there.

A year ago I was fed up due to all the same reason's anyone would want to get off opiates for. I made an appointment for a sub doc and he started me on a dose of 12 mg./day. Up until November of 2008 I was maintaining that dose until I was laid off from my job and my insurance ran out. I can't really afford to be on suboxone, with an unemployment income.

When I realized That I only had one months supply left I started to taper. I went from 12 mg./day to 8 mg./day with no problems, or withdrawls. Every week or two I cut my dose in half (from 8 mg to 4 mg all the way down to 2 mg/day). Tapering down to two mg was a piece of cake for me. I remained stable at 2 mg/day for about a month. The next week and a half I took 2 mg every other day.

My last 2 mg chunk was dosed on Saturday May 23rd. The next day I had a HUGE pre-memorial day family pig roast and that was an excuse to go score some Oxycontin to get me through the shindig. I took 2 80 mg oxycontin and I had a GREAT STONED time at the pig roast. I played horseshoes, went Horseback riding, played football, volleyball, and lots of other fun things. The next night I took two 16 mg's of Dilaudid. I got no high but my medium WD's subsided. That night I decided NO MATTER WHAT, I was done with opiates, PERIOD.

I induced myself into a XANAX COMA (not lierally lol) for the next 3 days of detox, and I think It helped. I'm not sure if I could have faced initial wd's while awake the whole time.

It is now Tuesday morning (Just over 7 days and 7 hours cold turkey clean). Yesterday (Monday), I went to the pharmacy and bought a few vitamin supplements listed here:

1) Green tea extract 630 mgs/day
2) Valerian Root 1000 to 1500 mg every 4 hours.
3) Potassium Gluconate 1100 mg/day
4) CVS brand Spectravite Advanced formula full spectrum multivitamin (doubling up dosing for first 3 weeks)
5) Protein 2 go Designer whey protein mix (1 packet,=6 grams protein, and 6 grams fiber mixed with 10 oz water/day
6) 25 mg Benadryl every 4 hours

I just started this regimen yesterday afternoon. I'm not sure if it's really the vitamins and minerals doing they're jobs or if it's a placebo type thing that accounts for my comfort right now. Either way I dont care as long as I can acheive some level of comfortableness.

I went for a walk this morning for a distance of 3 city blocks and soaked in a HOT bath after. I noticed the walk made me feel MUCH better. I'm going out for another 3 block walk after I'm done submitting this thread.

Now to stop rambling heres the questions for you, Robert:

1) What type of difference do you think this formula actually has as opposed to no supplements at all? (how big of a difference)

2) Can you think of anything else I could be adding to the cocktail?

3) Is there any other advice/feedback you could give me about my specific situation?

I'm of course open to ANYONE'S suggestions or support

I admire the courage and bravery of all the people who have beat opiate addiction and still remain opiate free, as it is one of the hardest things I have ever had to conquer in life. I AM DETERMINED! I will not give into temptation. Thanks to anyone who responds with advice.

Silus

[silusbotwin]

I'm also wondering if I should try to make arrangements with my doc to give me a small prescription without having to pay a visit fee of 65$. My concern is that I've made it this far from a 2 mg jump, would it be a good idea to put more sub in my body? I feel like I should just keep going as I am without going to see my doctor.

[kathleen5hockey]

I just wanted to say Congrats!!!!!!!!!!! It's been a long hard road for you, be proud of yourself! I'm jealeous, you went horseback riding!!! Walking is one of the best exercises, be sure to suck in your gut and stand straight, it helps with your posture.

Good luck!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by silusbotwin

I'm also wondering if I should try to make arrangements with my doc to give me a small prescription without having to pay a visit fee of 65$. My concern is that I've made it this far from a 2 mg jump, would it be a good idea to put more sub in my body? I feel like I should just keep going as I am without going to see my doctor.

Silus .... I obviously don't agree with taking the oxy, dilaudid, or an amount of xanax that put you in a "coma". But all that is beside the point now. We need to focus on you moving forward. And congratulations by the way for the progress you've made. Most of us make some mistakes along the way, it's not the end of the world. Just don't do it again though or you'll eventually end up relapsing, it's almost a guarantee.

Jumping off subs at 2mg, especially after being on them for a year is NOT what I would suggest at all. Considering you took the other opiates and xanax during the last week I would suspect that you'll start feeling the buprenorphine w/d symptoms any time now. With the long half life it usually takes days before it really hits us. I suppose you could be the exception but I doubt it.

If you can get more subs I would do that. You shouldn't need a lot, but it would be wise to get some if you are able. You need to be tapered down properly after using for a year. Stopping subs abruptly while at 2mg will likely leave you suffering w/d symptoms for a good while, much longer than with oxy or dilaudid. I will be happy to help you if you will just follow the suggestions. Let me know what you end up doing and I'll try to help you if I can.

I don't believe that you need to take benadryl every four hours. That is six times a day! Did someone advise you to do that? I'm not saying it will kill you or anything, I just don't think you need to take it every four hours. That's just me.

I still use valerian root today myself but why would you take that much every four hours? You're over-doing it with this stuff in my opinion. I'm not really an expert with all the vitamins and supplements, I never used them regularly. But I think you're using too much of the aforementioned items. Has anyone been adivsing you on the vit/supp you're taking? God bless.

[silusbotwin]

Thanks so much Robert for your reply!

I don't think it's a good idea to take oxy or D either, I am just being 100% honest.

I appreciate the congrats alot BTW. Everyone in my immediate family knows about what I'm working on and noone has told me good job yet besides you

You said I should be feeling the Sub wd's real soon. It is my 10th day with no sub and the 8th day with no opiates at all. So did taking the oxy and D prolong the halflife of the sub? For the 1st 5 days after the last Dilaudid I DEFINITELY had pretty severe wd's. All I'm feeling right now is mild fatigue, and I'm still experiencing severe diherea. I'm going to take a walk to the corner rx and pick up some immodium and see if that helps. I've been told immodium is addictive and I should be careful how I go about taking it. I'm hoping I continue to feel this good throughout the remainder of the day but I am prepared to start feeling like **** at anytime now.

I could actually "score" some sub from an acquaintance of mine if I really need it, but I'm trying hard to just stick it out. If I decide to continue with no sub, I've learned it will be 4-6 weeks of PAWS, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now that I think about it It has actually been about 12-13 days with no sub. I had about 25 tramadol that I went through in 2 days between the last 2 mg chunk of sub and the oxy. The date of my last sub dose was actually May 20th. My mistake on saying the 23rd in my 1st post.

The benadryl was recommended by a friend who went to rehab for hydro and they gave him NOTHING but benadryl.

The vitamin cocktail was recommended from another website, run by a man named Dr. David Arneson: http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm He lists these vitamins as a method for detoxing from methadone. I figured (which is a bad thing to do, I know this) that methadone and sub detox are pretty much similar. That is why I've applied this particular mixture of vitamins.

Whatever the case may be I'm not feeling to shabby today. I woke up and instantly checked this board to see if you replied. I actually have the energy to go out and do something (though I couldn't see myself doing more than swimming or walking right now) For the last month I've laid in my bed probably 20 hours a day playing on XBOX live, and I'm sure that's probably working against me. I would imagine laying around all day like a lazy blob would probably weaken me until I get exercising, and that's what I aim to do more and more every single day.

kathleen5hockey, and Robert_325 I hope you both realize the caliber of what your doing and how much easier it makes everyone's detox when they have someone like you to look to for answers. You guys just may be the opiate angels everyone needs. I just want to make it known how grateful I am to have a place, and people to go to and get everything out without being judged or looked at funny because sweat is pouring down my face (which by the way hasn't happened since the 3rd day.

Also I am a big fella. 250 pounds and I'm 6'6" tall. I have always been able to eat everything but the kitchen sink and not gain a pound. With that into consideration dfo you think I may have a faster metabolism rate than most? And maybe that could be helping speed things up for me?

Thanks again people. I don't know you in real life but I think I love you lol

[Robert_325]

Silus ..... I realize that you were just being honest about the other drugs you took and I appreciate that. That's why I said it wasn't worth getting into. I had to mention it though, I know you understand.

You've got to be your own judge to an extent here concerning the subs. If you have access to more and want to go for it like you are, I wouldn't try to talk you into anything. If you start feeling badly and know where you can obtain more subs then just wait if you want to. I wouldn't try to talk anyone into taking more meds than they need, I only go by what the numbers say. The numbers say that you'll feel w/d from jumping off at 2mg. Perhaps you'll be an exception to the rule, we can certainly hope.

It wouldn't be PAWS that you would be experiencing for a month after stopping the subs. It would be plain old w/d symptoms. PAWS symptoms are the same as w/d symptoms but you don't have PAWS simply because the w/d lasts a month. PAWS is a totally different thing. After you've been clean for 60 days and then you start having bad w/d problems, when it makes NO sense why you're feeling like you do, that's when PAWS start becoming a real possibility. If a person has PAWS there will be no doubt in their mind what it is. I've been there and relapsed once after PAWS. PAWS do eventually go away though if we will wait them out and not use.

Imodium is NOT addictive. It has an opiate base but it doesn't affect your recovery in any way whatsoever. Use it for your diarrhea as needed. It will help the way you feel too. Also if you have diarrhea you're dehydrated. Drink a bunch of gatorade, it's filled with electrolytes and will help.

I've never heard of a drug rehab where all the patient received for opiate detox was benadryl. That would totally suck! I've done rehab twice and opiate detox a few other times. I've never even considered doing it with nothing but benadryl. Let me know how you're doing. God bless.

[silusbotwin]

So I'm here to keep you updated on whats going on. I haven't taken any opiates at all. Today is my 13th day clean and I feel great. Still have a little dihherea if I forget to take my Imodium but other than that I feel GREAT! I'm going to continue on the vitamin regimen. By the way Robert, I'm not taking those massive quantities anymore. I am taking everything as recommended by the directions. I imagine if I didn't have the vitamins going for me I might still be in hell. I am NEVER taking opiates again unless it's for real pain. I'm even scared to take it for pain. I've been walking and riding a bike every day. I have the energy to take care of, and treat my son and daughter the way they deserves to be. I'm not crabby with them anymore. Today is a very busy day and I can make it through easy without opiates. Kinda of a weird feeling really. I have a graduation ceremony to go to then dinner with my girlfriends family, followed by a good friends, daughter's 1st birthday party. I'm feeling better every day. My parents don't even recognize the good me anymore lol. When I was abusing opiates, I would have a great feeling from them. After so long of taking them they just made me normal. Now that I'm clean I feel like I'm high every day. I haven't had this much energy without opiates in about 3-4 years when I first started using.

Finally I want to thank you again for the help. God bless you guys and I'm sure your life will be a great one as long as you keep up the good-karma deeds. I'll keep you updated.

[Freedom4me]

Silusbotwin,
Congratulations on your sucess. You did really well. You should be very, very proud of yourself. I am over 3 months clean from vicodin. Did it cold turkey, yuck. I know how hard it is. If you haven't done it then you just can't understand. Your posts are really honest and thoughtful so I know you will make it. There's no bullsh*t in there. You knew what you needed to do and you did it. Hip, Hip Hooray. I think it would be fun to know you in the real world!

[tired2]

Hi Silusbotwin.... Congrads sound like your on the right path ...it's sorta funny when you mention your weight and height....gosh I'm 5'4 120lb who knows how much those subs are in my body...well I have been on opiates forever it seems along with other stuff and done the rehab thing but now I have been tapering off sub with Robert and I'm down to .25 and started my first skip day...so far it's going good but it is definatly a mental thing as well as physical....so stay strong you will be fine.
Good Luck

[magsj]

Dear Silus-

Congratulations, been following your posts. I HAVE to ask you something. There is a character on the HBO series "Weeds" and I am SURE his name is Silus Botwin, I know the main character is Nancy Botwin. Does your username have anything to do with that? If you are uncomfortable answering that...no problem. It's just that the series, being on HBO, is not that well-know, but it is hilarious and was wondering if you are a fan?

Best wishes to you....

mags

[silusbotwin]

Originally Posted by magsj

Dear Silus-

Congratulations, been following your posts. I HAVE to ask you something. There is a character on the HBO series "Weeds" and I am SURE his name is Silus Botwin, I know the main character is Nancy Botwin. Does your username have anything to do with that? If you are uncomfortable answering that...no problem. It's just that the series, being on HBO, is not that well-know, but it is hilarious and was wondering if you are a fan?

Best wishes to you....

mags

LoL! You are the first person to figure that out. You are correct. I am a huge Weeds fan.

I appreciate everyone's comments and support. I'm not sure I would have made it this far without support from people. The funny thing is I get no support from my family. Only you guys. And let me tell you guys, you are more than enough help. You guys may have saved me! Every bit of feedback makes me prouder and prouder. I think I love you guys!

[magsj]

Dear Mr. Botwin:

HA! I knew it. I've wondered about that since the first time I saw your post. My husband and I are Weed Addicts (hehehehe no pun intended). Wait, some one might take that wrong......only the TV show ) Next Monday is the season premiere, looking foward to it. We are also big fans of Californication, United States of Tara and Dexter......After Weeds, there is a new comedey series coming out called "Nurse Jackie" looks like it will be a good one, the main character is a nurse who is addicted to pain killers........sounds too familiar (I am an RN).

Yes, this forum is awesome. My husband tries to help, but he is a very quiet person and I know he REALLY doesn't understand the complexity of addiction/withdrawal. He is the ONLY person that knows about my struggle with opiates. It's funny, his whole family drink like fishes (my husband doesn't drink at all) and many are full blown alcoholics but think they hide it; every function revolves around drinking, even the children's birthday parties, and this is all OKAY, but, if they were to find out that I became addiction to narcotics (the results of 15 years of major depression and back pain) they would have be absolutely APPALLED, for lack of a better word. What I was getting at, is I don't know that I would have gathered up the courage to even get as far as I have (down to 4mg suboxone from Methadone and Norco addiction) without the help of the people on this forum. I don't attend NA or anything like that, although I know it could be helpful) and I have no one to talk to about this. I happened upon this site and started reading. The people here (Robert being the rock) gave me the support and reassurance I needed to make the leap of faith. Knowing that there were people who understood and that made themselves available at all times of the day and night was the impetus I needed to move forward. They have put up with my rollercoaster of emotions; allowed me to complain, whine, vent, you name it and they STILL continue to do so. I will always be grateful. So........ you have joined a great lgroup of people....welcome.

Hope things are going well for you today. I'll keep check'in on you )

mags