[SmlUGotFrenchs]

I have been so reluctant to post all night tonite because I keep believing it must be impossible to have made such a change in such a short period of time. I started 24 mg Suboxone (too high, yes, I know, and I wasn't induced correctly, so I had two strikes against me) and immediately started having problems. Nothing major, just things that made a hard situation harder to deal with. Long story short, Robert had gotten me down to 6 mg of Suboxone when I went to a follow-up Sub "doc" appt. earlier in the week. I suggested that I might be having a problem with the Naloxone in Suboxone, as one of my biggest issues is edema - enormously swollen/sore ankles (just horrible, couldn't even touch them), and I have the same problem with Morphine. The "doc" switched me to Subutex, I picked them up today and took my first Subutex dose (2nd 3 mg dose of the day, first was Suboxone) at 2:30 this afternoon. I was so effective at work, then went to the health food store to pick up some vitamins, came home and fixed dinner for the kiddo, made up doses for through the weekend of Subutex, and now am on the computer. Monday night I came home after nodding at my computer all day long, fell asleep in my clothes at 5 when I got home, and had my son wake me up at 10 telling me I should go to bed.

I feel so good. Is is my imagination, or is this energy, and enthusiasm, and hopefulness, etc., etc. real? I can't believe one dose of a new med could change things like it seems to; maybe I was on the verge of making a change on my own, but I don't think so. I feel so good! I don't know what else to say!

[Robert_325]

Like I told you if you are one of the people who don't do well with naloxone you will feel totally different almost immediately. Naloxone is gone in a very short time so replacing suboxone with the subutex has an almost instant effect.

I think more drs should automatically use subutex rather than suboxone. Only time suboxone should be used is if there is a history of IV drug use. Why give someone meds like naloxone that many don't do well with especially if they have never shot drugs? Doesn't even make sense to me.

Let me know Friday if this lasts. I suspect it will. God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

I began a taper from Norco/Fentanyl/etc. (began at 24 mg) on Suboxone and had some pretty intense opiate withdrawal symptoms, which included nausea, anxiety, sweating, sadness, etc. I also had really intense fatigue and horrendous swelling in my ankles - I looked like an elephant - which have continued throughout my taper (I'm now at 6 mg.). I must tell you that I switched from Suboxone to Subutex at the beginning of this week - actually, the doc was seen and the RX was written at the beginning of this week, I just started the new medication yesterday. And I have to say that it is absolutely indescribable how I felt this morning when I woke up (after a full 8 hours of perfect sleep). I am recovering from 4 spinal surgeries in the past 6 months and my back DOES NOT HURT today - no pain whatsoever. No nausea, reduced anxiety...my ankles are almost reduced to their normal size. And this sounds funny, but I am sitting in an office that has fans all over it because I am always so hot and sweating - with a sweater on! My point (yes, I do have one) is that there are about 15% of the people assisted by an uncredited genius operating on this forum that are adversely affected in some, or many ways, by the Naloxone contained in Suboxone. I feel that I was definitely one of them and am so grateful I took a chance, and a financial risk, and gave the change to Subutex a try. Today's a whole new world. Glad to be part of it.

SmlUGotFrenchs

[Robert_325]

When this happens with subutex vs suboxone it's usually workable to shorten the time you maintain between reductions in the taper. That will prove priceless following your extended period of time on a high dose of suboxone.

Had you been on subutex all along this entire ordeal would have been so much easier for you. Shows how quickly MAJOR mistakes can be corrected. This just changed your future big time regarding this sub taper. I would bet it will be almost incident-free with these positive results switching to subutex.

You should talk with Pam (tired2) about when I had her switch to subutex. She started reducing on her taper every three days and is totally clean today after using opiates almost as long as me. Pam will have some good info to share with you. God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

I can't figure out how to send a Private Message so here's something that no one (well, hopefully you) will be interested in:

Michael and I went to Ruth's Chris Steak House in San Antonio Saturday night for my birthday. With my steak, the chef cut a huge, beefsteak tomato in half, drizzled it in olive oil, topped it with creamed spinach, and covered it in sharp cheddar cheese, then broiled it until the top just barely got crunchy.

I've made one every night since we've been home.

SmlUGotFrenchs

[kathrynk007]

I wish my doctor would switch me to Subutex.

When I first startd taking Suboxone, I broke out in welts/hives all over my chest......this happened for a few weeks....now I just get the welts every once in a while.

Now, I break out in weird rashes daily.......I have to take Benedryl (4-6 of them) every single evening or I won't stop itching.....in fact, the rashes are starting to scar me......Benedryl is the only thing that relieves the itching.

I have told him about this a few times......he totally ignores me. It's weird.

I haven't shot dope since 1995 (my last relapse, after 7 years clean, was painkillers). If he is worried about me shooting the subs, it is retarded. If I wanted to shoot dope, I certainly would not go through all of this just to shoot up a Subutex....LOL! I would cut straight to the chase.......

So, I suffer reactions that are intolerable.....but the raised welts scare me.

So, I know how the side effects are.....I just wish my doctor would prescribe the the subutex so I don't have to go through the itching and welts anymore....

[tired2]

Hi...this is Pam I had been doing every pain med and benzo out there for over 25yrs ...
Well back in mid March my doctor but me on 16mg of Suboxone. He asked me when I took my last pill which was 1hr prior and handed me a script for 16mg Subutex to start with no induction and one for Suboxone and sent me on my merry way...well I got very lucky and found Robert on this forum shortly after thank God...

Well I was also getting so sick I thought I would have to live on my sofa for a year.So I called the doctor he actually wanted to increase my dose but Robert had already told me that the 16mg was to high and was tapering me .

Robert suggested I get on the Subutex at first the doctor would only give me 4 days worth but after switching I started to feel so much better. So I later marched into his office and told him that the Naloxone was making me ill .Since it is only so you don't shoot up why did I need another drug in my system . Well he agreed to put me on the Subutex....Boy it made such a difference on how I felt...I wasn't sick it was great!!!

I also did my taper every 3 days which seemed to work for me so on every 4th day I would taper 25% to whatever dose Robert would tell me. So do everything he says believe me the man knows his stuff.

I can also help you cutting your doses since when you get to 2mg cuts they tend to break and crumble.

I have been Opiate Free now 8 weeks this Sunday and I have no desire to take a single pain pill. Trust me if I can do it anyone can just stay positive.

I'm now tapering off the benzo's with Robert..
Hope this is some help if you have any questions let me know.
Pam

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by SmlUGotFrenchs

I can't figure out how to send a Private Message so here's something that no one (well, hopefully you) will be interested in:

Michael and I went to Ruth's Chris Steak House in San Antonio Saturday night for my birthday. With my steak, the chef cut a huge, beefsteak tomato in half, drizzled it in olive oil, topped it with creamed spinach, and covered it in sharp cheddar cheese, then broiled it until the top just barely got crunchy.

I've made one every night since we've been home.

SmlUGotFrenchs

Ruth's Chris Steak House is an incredible place. They have some of the best steaks around and a great wine list too! Trust me I've had several Cabernets with a Ruth's Chris steak over my years in Texas.

The tomato with spinach sounds wonderful. It's cool to get to a place in life where you can enjoy some silly spinach while still having so many things going on in your life. That's a huge improvement for you I think since only a couple weeks ago you were not nearly so positive about things.

I'm glad all this with the subutex is beginning to work so well for you. Keep doing the next right thing. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Pam ... thanks for posting Pam. It means a lot to people on subs to hear your story. God bless.

[tired2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Pam ... thanks for posting Pam. It means a lot to people on subs to hear your story. God bless.

Robert...no need to thank me glad I could help... it's my way of giving back for all you have done for me. It's a good feeling to be able to help others.
God Bless,
Pam

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by tired2

Hi...this is Pam I had been doing every pain med and benzo out there for over 25yrs ...
Well back in mid March my doctor but me on 16mg of Suboxone. He asked me when I took my last pill which was 1hr prior and handed me a script for 16mg Subutex to start with no induction and one for Suboxone and sent me on my merry way...well I got very lucky and found Robert on this forum shortly after thank God...

Well I was also getting so sick I thought I would have to live on my sofa for a year.So I called the doctor he actually wanted to increase my dose but Robert had already told me that the 16mg was to high and was tapering me .

Robert suggested I get on the Subutex at first the doctor would only give me 4 days worth but after switching I started to feel so much better. So I later marched into his office and told him that the Naloxone was making me ill .Since it is only so you don't shoot up why did I need another drug in my system . Well he agreed to put me on the Subutex....Boy it made such a difference on how I felt...I wasn't sick it was great!!!

I also did my taper every 3 days which seemed to work for me so on every 4th day I would taper 25% to whatever dose Robert would tell me. So do everything he says believe me the man knows his stuff.

I can also help you cutting your doses since when you get to 2mg cuts they tend to break and crumble.

I have been Opiate Free now 8 weeks this Sunday and I have no desire to take a single pain pill. Trust me if I can do it anyone can just stay positive.

I'm now tapering off the benzo's with Robert..
Hope this is some help if you have any questions let me know.
Pam

Its great to hear from somebody "on the other side"...there's been times over the past month when I wondered if I'd make it there. It is a mystery to me why these doctors would not start everyone on what would most likely cause the least problems...I'm lucky my doctor doesn't really care enough about anything but the mighty $$ to argue about switching me from Suboxone to Subutex - its all the same to him, he gets his same money. And now I feel like I have a real chance - hell, I feel great!

I know Robert knows his stuff and I'll absolutely follow instructions, but I am not in that frantic rush to taper more quickly because its such a switch to feel so good. I'm enjoying the rush! I will definitely need some help when it gets to cutting lower, I'm already making piles of crumbs. I'm so stupidly organized, I've got cases for my 2 daily doses, cases for emergency "slivers", cases for 2 mg., cases for crumbles. They're all contact lens cases, I'll be able to open an optometry shop when this is over! I really appreciate the offer of help, and please don't be surprised when I ask for it...I wouldn't ask if I didn't truly need it - its very difficult for me to do. That's another problem I have that I haven't figured out how I'm going to handle - I have hidden my personality behind these pain pills for so long that I don't know how to act without them, or if I even have a personality. I am so serious when I tell you that I am just now over the past couple of days being able to talk in complete sentences.

Congratulations on your success and I look forward to being able to call on you.

SmlUGotFrenchs

[melinda7.5]

Hi Frenchs
Your going to be really surprised how good you will feel when you get off all of the pills for me my laugh came back. I love to laugh...s don't worry about your personality your going to love it...
you know I had my surgery on the 10th of July and have been taking these pail pills till the 26th..well the one thing I noticed is my laugh is gone...
I cant wait to be done with these pills and just be me again...
hope you have a good night and give that little boy of yours a big hug for me.

Talk to you soon, Melinda

[gettingthere]

wow! I thought it was just me. I have NEVER been allergic to poison ivy/oak, or anything else for that matter and all of a sudden I have these weird blisters and bumps and uncontrollable itching. I've always heard that you can become allergic to poison ivy/oak at any time and figured that it had finally happened to me==even though I've not been in contact with any, that I know of...right now my whole arm from my wrist to my elbow (and growing) is one big red bumpy rash which itches soooo bad--and the more I scratch the more it whelp up--and bleeds! plus the occasional blister/bumps elsewhere on my body. I never thought of telling the doc about that. hmmmmm

Originally Posted by kathrynk007

I wish my doctor would switch me to Subutex.

When I first startd taking Suboxone, I broke out in welts/hives all over my chest......this happened for a few weeks....now I just get the welts every once in a while.

Now, I break out in weird rashes daily.......I have to take Benedryl (4-6 of them) every single evening or I won't stop itching.....in fact, the rashes are starting to scar me......Benedryl is the only thing that relieves the itching.

I have told him about this a few times......he totally ignores me. It's weird.

I haven't shot dope since 1995 (my last relapse, after 7 years clean, was painkillers). If he is worried about me shooting the subs, it is retarded. If I wanted to shoot dope, I certainly would not go through all of this just to shoot up a Subutex....LOL! I would cut straight to the chase.......

So, I suffer reactions that are intolerable.....but the raised welts scare me.

So, I know how the side effects are.....I just wish my doctor would prescribe the the subutex so I don't have to go through the itching and welts anymore....

[bev49]

Pam, I love your story so much. Its an inspiration for alot of us here. I also had a bad reaction to the suboxone but in a different way. They made me so speedy and not in a good way. I was full of anxiety and couldn't sleep at all at night. Not exactly withdrawl but almost major panic. I went to the doc who was reluctant to switch me to subutex because i have a history of shooting drugs. When I noted that I had not injected a drug in 25 years, he switched me and it was great. They say the narcan has no effect but I say bs to that.

[tired2]

Originally Posted by SmlUGotFrenchs

Its great to hear from somebody "on the other side"...there's been times over the past month when I wondered if I'd make it there. It is a mystery to me why these doctors would not start everyone on what would most likely cause the least problems...I'm lucky my doctor doesn't really care enough about anything but the mighty $$ to argue about switching me from Suboxone to Subutex - its all the same to him, he gets his same money. And now I feel like I have a real chance - hell, I feel great!

I know Robert knows his stuff and I'll absolutely follow instructions, but I am not in that frantic rush to taper more quickly because its such a switch to feel so good. I'm enjoying the rush! I will definitely need some help when it gets to cutting lower, I'm already making piles of crumbs. I'm so stupidly organized, I've got cases for my 2 daily doses, cases for emergency "slivers", cases for 2 mg., cases for crumbles. They're all contact lens cases, I'll be able to open an optometry shop when this is over! I really appreciate the offer of help, and please don't be surprised when I ask for it...I wouldn't ask if I didn't truly need it - its very difficult for me to do. That's another problem I have that I haven't figured out how I'm going to handle - I have hidden my personality behind these pain pills for so long that I don't know how to act without them, or if I even have a personality. I am so serious when I tell you that I am just now over the past couple of days being able to talk in complete sentences.

Congratulations on your success and I look forward to being able to call on you.

SmlUGotFrenchs

Hi French...trust me you will act just fine and will get you true personality back...like I said I have done every pain med out there up to Morph and I felt great when I was OPIATE FREE...I can't wait to be free of these darn benzo's then I will be able to feel again.....
I know you said you are not in any hurry but you don't want to stop to long in between doses ....you can just do the 4 day taper ...just do whatever Robert says and only take a silver if you really need it.
These sub doctors only take an 8 hr course and have no idea how to taper people ...had I listened to mine he would have had me jump at 2mg...I would have been bouncing off the walls. I'd love to see them taper off all the ******** they get us addicted to.
What dose are you on and are they 8mg pills...I see you need help cutting the pills . Get a glass from a picture frame and take your razor cut up your pill then use the side of your razor to smash all the pcs. little at a time so they don't go flying into a powder then divide the piles by eyeballing into 8 1mg piles ,then you can take a 1mg pile cut in half you will 2 .50 piles . You can take another 1mg and divided it into 4 piles which will be .25 each , then you can take .25 cut it in half which is .12 etc.
Make sure you mark your piles and cover the powder I just used a couple glasses ...then you can use an index card bend it and add the powder and put it under your tongue...It works like a charm. I actually I used paint chip samples they worked perfect.
Well I hope this helps let me know if you have any questions.
Later,Pam

[tired2]

Originally Posted by gettingthere

wow! I thought it was just me. I have NEVER been allergic to poison ivy/oak, or anything else for that matter and all of a sudden I have these weird blisters and bumps and uncontrollable itching. I've always heard that you can become allergic to poison ivy/oak at any time and figured that it had finally happened to me==even though I've not been in contact with any, that I know of...right now my whole arm from my wrist to my elbow (and growing) is one big red bumpy rash which itches soooo bad--and the more I scratch the more it whelp up--and bleeds! plus the occasional blister/bumps elsewhere on my body. I never thought of telling the doc about that. hmmmmm

Hi...Oh boy I have been there but from a different medicine...I was even on prednisone (don't recommend it on subs),creams all the dermatologist thought it could be was the new med I was on it lasted for 5 weeks the only think that kept me from scaring is I had fake nail ...real nail are worse. My whole body had it....When did your rash start ....If it is the Suboxone I would march right into the doctors office and tell him to at least let you try the Subutex for a few weeks to see if it goes away...have you gone to a dermatologist maybe if you tell him then you can go back and tell the idiot you need to change...
Most people that have a problem with the Suboxone usually are sick...this is the first I have heard it causing a rash but I'm no doctor.
Hope you feel better soon.
Pam

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi Frenchs
Your going to be really surprised how good you will feel when you get off all of the pills for me my laugh came back. I love to laugh...s don't worry about your personality your going to love it...
you know I had my surgery on the 10th of July and have been taking these pail pills till the 26th..well the one thing I noticed is my laugh is gone...
I cant wait to be done with these pills and just be me again...
hope you have a good night and give that little boy of yours a big hug for me.

Talk to you soon, Melinda

Hi, Melinda:

I feel guilty even talking about what I'm fixing to say, I've been to hell and back and I am so aware of how many others are still on the journey, but talking about worrying about my laugh/personality coming back has brought these realizations up. I got up this morning, again feeling great after a great night's sleep, cleaned up the house, ran to the office and got a couple of things done, picked up donuts for my angel - just typical things that "normal" (whatever that means) people do on a Saturday morning. Except I'm usually wasted when I'm doing them. I absolutely do not know how to live being sober. It is just as hard to mentally not want to reach for the pill bottle as it is physically. Well, maybe not just as hard, but I think you know what I mean. I just don't know how to act, feel, or BE sober. Everything that HAD to be done today is pretty much done, and I don't know how to sit and just BE with myself. When do you figure that one out?

* Michael gave a big hug back to you last night and put you in his prayers. It was so cute, he goes, "Mom, I love those people, whoever they are - they gave me my mom back" *

SmlUGotFrenchs

[gettingthere]

hi Pam,
I'm not sick but I've really had a bad, bad time--feel like I'm going crazy! Sleep is still not possible for more than an hour or so without melatonin/calms forte, when I wake up its just like it was on the methadone--me staring at the clock, is it time to take something? I feel like ********, what time is it now? --the fatigue is horrible! the itching--oh my--the ITCHING! I've been reluctant to post these problems because I'm seriously wondering if I'm just plain crazy or a lost cause. I'm not sick as far as nausea, diarrhea, restless leg--the usual wd symptoms, but I am no where near as good as I read other people doing at the same 4 mg..... maybe I am just crazy! Anyway, sorry for getting carried away--but thanks for your concern. It is nice to know ya'll are out there.

Originally Posted by tired2

Hi...Oh boy I have been there but from a different medicine...I was even on prednisone (don't recommend it on subs),creams all the dermatologist thought it could be was the new med I was on it lasted for 5 weeks the only think that kept me from scaring is I had fake nail ...real nail are worse. My whole body had it....When did your rash start ....If it is the Suboxone I would march right into the doctors office and tell him to at least let you try the Subutex for a few weeks to see if it goes away...have you gone to a dermatologist maybe if you tell him then you can go back and tell the idiot you need to change...
Most people that have a problem with the Suboxone usually are sick...this is the first I have heard it causing a rash but I'm no doctor.
Hope you feel better soon.
Pam

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by kathrynk007

I wish my doctor would switch me to Subutex.

When I first startd taking Suboxone, I broke out in welts/hives all over my chest......this happened for a few weeks....now I just get the welts every once in a while.

Now, I break out in weird rashes daily.......I have to take Benedryl (4-6 of them) every single evening or I won't stop itching.....in fact, the rashes are starting to scar me......Benedryl is the only thing that relieves the itching.

I have told him about this a few times......he totally ignores me. It's weird.

I haven't shot dope since 1995 (my last relapse, after 7 years clean, was painkillers). If he is worried about me shooting the subs, it is retarded. If I wanted to shoot dope, I certainly would not go through all of this just to shoot up a Subutex....LOL! I would cut straight to the chase.......

So, I suffer reactions that are intolerable.....but the raised welts scare me.

So, I know how the side effects are.....I just wish my doctor would prescribe the the subutex so I don't have to go through the itching and welts anymore....

You HAVE to insist that he gives this other drug a try. It shouldn't be too hard convincing him that shooting dope is not an issue, but your overall health is! It pisses me off that you are going through these physical problems and he won't even try to figure out why. Kathryn, you absolutely have to advocate for yourself, because sometimes you are the only advocate you have. And you are always your BEST advocate. You pay this guy to do a job for you, you must insist he does it to the best of his abilities, which he is obviously not. Go talk to him and tell him that it is a proven fact that the stuff in the Suboxone (Naloxone) has different and weird effects on different people. There is no medical reason for it to be included in a medication you're on and you'd like to try something that may just relieve all your problems. It seems to have done it for me. Remember, he works for you!
Keep me informed, please - it matters to me.

SmlUGotFrenchs

[tired2]

Hi French...you will be normal again trust me...go to my sub post I haven't posted there in awhile since I'm now tapering off benzo's but I did post something the other day that may help ...You just have to retrain your brain.
So is Michael your son ...if so how old is he??
Talk Soon ,Pam

[Robert_325]

When it's obviously a physical, emotional, everything reaction to the naloxone then I would tell the dr that you're willing to sign a statement saying you're doing this change against his advice if necessary (takes him off the hook with liability), tell him you'll do it for one month if it isn't obviously better you'll go back (you'll see results immediately if the change was right for you), tell them whatever it takes as it makes your entire recovery with subutex so much more doable. You'll probably be able to see the results of the change with one week's worth of subutex if the change is right for you. Don't give up though and insist that you have the right to do this. Good luck and God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by tired2

Hi French...you will be normal again trust me...go to my sub post I haven't posted there in awhile since I'm now tapering off benzo's but I did post something the other day that may help ...You just have to retrain your brain.
So is Michael your son ...if so how old is he??
Talk Soon ,Pam

I appreciate the encouragement, Pam. Its incredible how it lifts you up for a total stranger to express some interest in your situation and offer the benefit of their experience. Suddenly they're not strangers anymore. I will check out your sub post -thanks.

Yes, Michael is my beautiful 11-year-old - diagnosed with Lymphoma at 7 - so he's been fighting for a while. But he'll fight as long as it takes. He's got that part of me in him.

SmlUGotFrenchs

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

I am off all my medication except the crucial one (Subutex), and I have tapered that down from 24 mg. daily where I started to 4.5 mg. daily. I take an occasional Klonopin, but I haven't even picked up my Xanax bottle in days, same with my Ambien. I feel great and have got my brain working in concert with my mouth again – its just awesome. My back even feels better. Michael and I are getting along so well – he seems to sense that I’m sober. All good things.

Except I had an extensive physical last Monday in order to satisfy Sub doc's rules and they wanted me to go back for the results this week. I talked them into just calling and doing it over the phone so I didn’t have to miss work. The nurse just called and said there are several issues with blood work, one of them being C Reactive, which is some sort of cardiac problem , T3 – either low or high (I was too freaked out to get which one) which is thyroid, and the biggie – I am prediabetic. She said the doctor really wants to speak to me about these things in person, and I agree.

I have an appt. Wednesday afternoon. A little worried.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Hey, Robert, I went ahead and came into the office today - I have changed my doc appt. to this afternoon so I thought I'd come in for a few hours. The smell and fumes seem to be better, no one else is having any issues - however, my head has started spinning and aching, I'm dizzy and nauseated. Real nauseated. Should I take a sliver and see if that helps, or wait until after lunch (1/2 hour from now) and see if that (eating) helps, or just leave the office altogether? Or some combination of those?

[Robert_325]

I would leave if I could. You don't want to make a habit out of taking slivers. They are usually only used under 2mg. I just wanted to get you smoothed out before when I suggested it. You shouldn't be needing slivers at this point. I

think your environment is adding to the fact that you're tapering. You should leave, get something to eat and then it will be obvious whether it was the cause or not. God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

K - I'm out of here.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

In my screwed up memory, I thought that things had gone relatively well with this taper, but when I look at my notes tonite, things haven't gone like Robert usually does them. 7/23 thru 7/27 10 mgs. Sub (5 days), 7/28 thru 8/2 8 mgs. (6 days), 8/3-8/8 6 mgs. (6 days-changed to Subutex on 8/6), then dropped to 4.5 mgs. on 8/9. I'm concerned - I haven't done a 4 day yet, and as you know, I've had some problems this week as well. Nothing major, but I think the problems at my workplace have contributed to not having the best week. I'm still getting a little sweaty and dizzy every once in a while each day, and don't know what to attribute that to. Tomorrow is Day 4 of 4.5 mgs. of Subutex.

So, what's next, and when? Math genius at work again here - but how do I do 3.375 mgs when I do drop?

[Robert_325]

There hasn't been anything typical about any of your experience. You're making reference to an ideal scenario where I get a shot at someone on a halfway reasonable dose for an acceptable amount of time as in a few months.

When you add absurd medication doses, even when it's done totally innocently by the patient, and lengthy periods of drug use I am doing quite well I think to have not gone over a week a single time you've reduced your sub dose. Plus add in that you had the wrong medication for most of this. We just got the subutex.

Lots of people take a week between doses. Four days isn't a one-size-fits-all. It's an honest miracle we're making the progress we're making getting your life back. You should consider yourself lucky all things considered.

You've been here long enough to probably see people who got mad at me but they end up back in the same place still trying to get clean. I have people post every day or thereabouts because everyone is different tapering especially someone with a history such as yours. Be fair to me here please.

I think you should stay at 4.5mg another day or two, but if you want to go for it do it. Worse case is you feel poorly and you increase the dose. I don't recommend doing that though at this high a dose. I don't like to use slivers until the dose is 1.5mg or less.

I'll leave the call on this reduction to you. God bless.

[Robert_325]

I would round off 3.375mg at 3.4mg. No reason to get so close on these doses. If we get as close as we can get eye-balling it that is good enough. God bless.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

There hasn't been anything typical about any of your experience. You're making reference to an ideal scenario where I get a shot at someone on a halfway reasonable dose for an acceptable amount of time as in a few months.

When you add absurd medication doses, even when it's done totally innocently by the patient, and lengthy periods of drug use I am doing quite well I think to have not gone over a week a single time you've reduced your sub dose. Plus add in that you had the wrong medication for most of this. We just got the subutex.

Lots of people take a week between doses. Four days isn't a one-size-fits-all. It's an honest miracle we're making the progress we're making getting your life back. You should consider yourself lucky all things considered.

You've been here long enough to probably see people who got mad at me but they end up back in the same place still trying to get clean. I have people post every day or thereabouts because everyone is different tapering especially someone with a history such as yours. Be fair to me here please.

I think you should stay at 4.5mg another day or two, but if you want to go for it do it. Worse case is you feel poorly and you increase the dose. I don't recommend doing that though at this high a dose. I don't like to use slivers until the dose is 1.5mg or less.

I'll leave the call on this reduction to you. God bless.

It seems you almost expect me to be snide when you reply to my comments. I guess that can be attributed to the way we started out, but you're mistaken if you think that I don't hold you and what you've done for me in the highest regard. I reread what I wrote you and I just cannot see where I come across as critical of you or your decisions, but apparently its there, so I'm sorry.

I am stuck with a egotistical maniac doc who spends 3/4 of an hour griping at me doing my "own program" because he is under the impression that I am at 8.5 mgs. at day and he thinks it should be more. I didn't argue that point with him either, but for some reason he thought I was debating with him. I was simply taking advice you've given me: keep my mouth shut, get my meds, and get out the door. He was determined I was gonna hear it from him first.

I also got discouraging news about my cardiac condition as well as being borderline diabetic with thyroid issues, and I still put a child with cancer to bed every night so though I am admittedly overjoyed and grateful for the progress we've made, I seem to be among a small group on this forum that receives pretty harsh treatment when my mood finds me not dancing on the rooftops.

I agree with everything you said, as usual. I WILL NOT do anything just because it might be "time" for someone else, I will do what you decide is right for ME. Incidentally, I thought from my suggestion that the past few days were kind of rough for me, you would see that I don't think I'm ready either.

Regardless of everything else, you have brought me to where I am, and if you feel about me in a way that deems you have to be so stern with me that's okay. I'm not quitting, or running to what's easy, or even trying to figure out what I've done to piss you off. I'm just going to continue doing what I'm told.

P.S. Thank you for the rounding-off instructions. They'll come in handy when its time for it to happen. That, as everything else I've put in your capable hands, is up to you.