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Suboxone Question
  1. #1
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Default Suboxone Question

    This is going to sound entirely ignorant, but before I joined this website I had never heard of the drug Suboxone. I would be grateful if someone could explain what they know about it, as I will be being weaned off of Percocet and Gabapentin (Neurontin) with Xanax (alprazolam) in a month or two. This isall being done by the VA so I never know what they're going to do. Anyone who uses the VA knows what I'm talking about. Suboxone--how does it work and how does it affect you? Thanks. Mike VG
    Last edited by Mike VG; 09-30-2007 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Grammar
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  2. #2
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Default Anybody?

    Nobody knows anything about Suboxone?
    Mike VG

  3. #3
    Cats Meow is offline Diamond Member
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    Default

    Click the hyperlink Mike, it should explain the basics to you. If you have further Q's about it then I'll try and answer them for you. There's tons of info on this site about it, just dig a little bit.

  4. #4
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Default Thank You

    Quote Originally Posted by Cats Meow View Post
    Click the hyperlink Mike, it should explain the basics to you. If you have further Q's about it then I'll try and answer them for you. There's tons of info on this site about it, just dig a little bit.
    Thanks Cats Meow, I didn't know you could do that. Hehehe. One more question, Some people seem to love it, and others hate it with a passion, is that one of those we're all different kind of answers? Thanks again, Sweetheart. Mike VG
    Last edited by Mike VG; 09-30-2007 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Misspelling
    Mike VG

  5. #5
    no mo norco is offline New Member
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    Default thankyou all !!!!!

    hi all, todays my 1st. post , and my 6 th. day from the last norco ! i found this forum 6 days ago,and have been scrolling every day , i can't thank you all enough! ive been praying for all of us everyday. i'll be back shortly and give you my story, i might have some helpfull info. starving rite now,gonna eat,so nice to have appatite back! back soon

  6. #6
    no mo norco is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by no mo norco View Post
    hi all, todays my 1st. post , and my 6 th. day from the last norco ! i found this forum 6 days ago,and have been scrolling every day , i can't thank you all enough! ive been praying for all of us everyday. i'll be back shortly and give you my story, i might have some helpfull info. starving rite now,gonna eat,so nice to have appatite back! back soon
    story is on new thread

  7. #7
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    Default Hi Mike.....

    There is lots of useful information here, and on another website dedicated only to Suboxone.....

    NAABT.COM

    It is a site for advocates of Suboxone so you may not get a "fair" assessment there.

    For me? Suboxone saved my life. (I'm sure you've read that line before).

    I was addicated to opiates for years and was introduced to Sub's after trying to "wean" off opiates. After many, many UNSUCCESSFUL attempts on my own, I was just about ready to give up on myself. The pain from the withdrawal, and the length of those feelings of helplessness lasted waaaay too long for me. Usually after an attempt to wean, I found myself using the opiates again. I never truly became opiate free until finding out about Sub's. Although Sub's ARE an opiate, they block the receptors that allow that feeling of "euphoria" that most addicts will describe when first taking percocet, oxycontin, etc.

    Good luck! And check out that website!
    Janice
    I shall remain grateful for Suboxone...........

  8. #8
    Cats Meow is offline Diamond Member
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    Mike, people like it because they no longer crave opioids and can get their lives back, they may not like the hoops they have to jump through to get it prescribed, and it's very expensive and insurance doesn't usually cover it. Hardcore addicts may miss their euphoria, because they can't take anything else on top of it. If people dislike it, maybe it's because it takes a long taper down to get off it, then they still may experience W/D's, which is why they love it in the first place, (no W/D's). SubO is also not a good choice for chronic pain, which is why many become addicted in the first place, so if they have genuine CP, they may still have more pain then they expected.

  9. #9
    submom is offline Member
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    Default hello old friend..lol

    Hey Mike
    Glad you posted your questions. First of all with the VA pay for this? the above poster was correct. It is costly. My first dr. visit ran me 200 bucks and now i pay 100 for every months visit...the meds cost me 175.00 for 30 , 8mgs pills. I believe people start taking it for differnt reasons. I was addicted to norco ( 4years) and did not have anyone on board to help me taper...being an addict i could not do it myself...i did not want to go CT as i have a family to care for ....the sub has been awesome for me...no WD's and minimal (like 4 times since i quit 2months ago) cravings. My brain has been retrained not to pop a pill every 3 hours...i dose 1 time (sometimes twice) a day...it is freeing...i know when i go to my suboxone dr. that he will fill my script...no dr. shopping...i just go and pick em up. If you choose to go the suboxone route have a plan....dont start with the dose your Dr. recommends because many times it is higher than you actually need....wait till your in mild WD's then place 2 mgs under your tongue...wait 30 minutes...if you dont feel the WD's leaving than place 2 more...till you feel good. my dr. recommended i start at 16mgs which was wayyyyy to much...the quicker you can get off the subs the better...you dont want to be on a one year taper...i mean...i dont think you do...buy YOu might...i dont...i plan on being off this time next month....also..the neurontin makes me stepping down in dosage alot easier...is there a reason you do not want to continue this one for a while? it may make tapering more bearable for you....i am now at 3mgs...and it has not been hard. I take 900 mgs of the neurontin...and it helps....
    I hope i gave you some info that may be helpful to you....let me know if you have more questions...


  10. #10
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Thanks a whole lot for the info and the time you took in providing it. There's a lot of good people on here and I am grateful for the caring hearts and information I wouldn't get anywhere else. I'm applying that to the whole site. Lot's to learn here. And I'm glad I stumbled across it. I may sound a little namby-pamby, but that's just the Christian coming out of me. I used to be a hard partier for 7 years when I lived in San Diego and Crystal Meth was my drug of choice. I'm glad I'm no longer on that road. So I've definitely paid my dues.Sometimes I love people and then sometimes I can't stand them--I guess I just know what we're all capable of doing: the ugly side. I'm 46 years old spent 20 years in the United States Nave Submarine Service and I guess I figured I'm gonna do what "I" wanna do now and that's party--all the time. There's a point where that all changes into things I'd rather not talk about, Hehehe. So I guess I'll just shut up. God Bless and if anyone just wants to talk, Ill be here. Later.
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  11. #11
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Well hello there Sweetheart, forgiving soul that you are Hehehe. Yes the VA will be picking up the tab on all my prescriptions and tests, whatever I need. Kinda Good for me, something I never believed I would have to use until I became an old man. Veteran's benefit. Well as far as not wanting to continue the Neurontin for a while--it's been 10 months on all this s**t. I just want my life back. Alot of people are uneducated about how painful and debilitating Postherpetic Neuralgia is. Even the Medical Establishment seem befuddled and quite frankly they're getting on my g*****n nerves. They're so patronizing and placating, and so busy (they think). I'm over it and wondering seriously if I'm failing this test from God. Maybe it's not from God but from all my hard partyin' and living I did for so long. All the while knowing what I was doing was wrong. But THANK YOU, Submom for for knowledge and advice regarding Suboxone. I'll just have to wait and see which route the VA wants to take with my situation-- I just want to be prepared so they don't blindside me with information I'm not aware of. Thanks again. I don't see no smiley faces on this thing, so smiley face to ya, Submom.
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  12. #12
    wtfkatie is offline Member
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    I'm on methadone so I don't know much about suboxone, Other that I had the choice of both when I first started. I chose methadone because my insurance covered ALL the costs, So I don't pay a dime..If I were to have chosen sub, i'd pay $750 initially, then $450 every month for the program & counceling, and $200 for the 30 day supply of meds which at the time (Still) Can't afford. It's quite costly in my clinic.

  13. #13
    alonenomore is offline Junior Member
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    Hello to all of my new long lost friends. Mike, I too stumbled across this website and had never heard of Suboxone until now. I have started and stopped (well usually have my husband help me) abusing opiates over and over again for the past oh say 20 years. Gradually increasing the dose or/and the type of opiates I get (on the street, not from my doc). Have finally stumbled across oxycontin 80 mg...never, ever though this little girl would do such a thing. I have found a doc in my town for xubs, but have yet to make the phone call. I know that if I do not make that call soon, this insanity is going to eventually take my life. Soon. I am only 41 with so many reasons to live. I so know better or knew better than to take that first one agiain. But i popped it in my mouth and that was the beginning of another run (this occured three to four months ago). Spending more and money, my husband is getting suspicious. Would appreciate support and prayers. I am planning for the 15th of october to be my stop date. Good night, take care, sweet dreams and good luck.

  14. #14
    no mo norco is offline New Member
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    Default cold turkey, free yourself and live !

    hi all, im on my 8th. day! cold turkey, got some really good sleep last night,woke up feeling 20 yrs. younger! i'll be 50 next week but i feel like 30 compared to the last few years iv'e been liveing.
    hey MIKE, this stuff is harder to get off than the c. meth. ,i was there also,at least on the c.meth, you could come down and sleep for a week, coming off these opiats, i could'ent sleep for 3 days,4th. day 1hr. , 5th. 2hr. etc.. the pain is crazy, its in your musels and bones, you just want to crawl right out of your body, the 3rd. day was the worst, gets better from there. the hellish w/ds will be stamped in your mind forever, don't think of it as a negitive but as a positive, a great tool you'll always have whitch will make you think twice next time you want to score.
    the methadone and suboxone ive heard horror stories about, espicaly the methadone, something about the molecules are larger and it stays in your system much longer makeing the w/ds much longer.
    the sub. , look at WTFKATIE's post, lotsa $ just to get hooked on something else!
    WTFKATIE, just my opinion, but when you chose to quit your habbit you had a hill to climb, now you have a mountain to climb called methadone.
    alot of people here are sayin yeh, the metha. is great, or the sub. is great, well daa, there on something.
    ALONENOMORE, sounds like a good plan, makeing a date, you can prepare your mind. take care of all your responsibilaties now, if you work,take at least 4 days off, i was good enough on the 5th. day to work. if you can't do that,plan your last pill on friday morn. work 1/2 day, come down with the flu, go home.
    preparation is very important, i started preping when i got my last bottle of norcos. bout 1/2 way thru supply i counted em out & figured how many days
    etc.
    some of you may be sayin, yeh,easy for you to say! well, i can tell ya, it was one of the hardest things ive done. the memory of the hellish w/ds will keep me clean. the,yeh i did it! gives me pride.
    your questions on soboxone and (espicaly) methodone. why make a big problem a huge problem!
    would you trade your worn out car for a car in the junkyard! not me , i went to the dealer and and got a new one! and that dealer was'ent that scuzzy guy down the street either , i think it must have been GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    good luck and good bless.

  15. #15
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Well, I hope you don't make that call. My prayers are with you. God Bless you alonenomore. Do you and those that love a favor and stay away from the wrong people.
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  16. #16
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Methadone & Buprenorphene (suboxone,subutex)

    Hi Everyone:
    Methadone and buprenorphene are now working side by side and this is great for all opiate addicts.
    Methadone works by flooding the opiate receptors in the brain (and the rest of the body for that matter).The methadone molecule is much bigger then say a morphine molecule and this is one reason why morphine or >>>>>> doesn't work.They can't get around the methadone molecule and stimulate the receptor to release dopamine.
    Methadone, because of it's power needs to be taken by hard core addicts as they will get the least side effects and won't nod out on it.

    Buprenorphene molecule has the highest affinity to the opiate receptors and like methadone it's have life can last up to 3 days (methadone is shorteer,24-36hrs).
    Also buprenorphene is a partial opiate antagonist so a hard core addict isn't going to get much relief.
    Were buprenorphene excells is the addict that has been abusing say less then 5 years or is on the weaker opates like hydrocodone or codeine.
    There are always exceptions to the rules and methadone and buprenorphene are no different.
    What they both do is quell cravings and withdrawls so that the addict stops the detructive behaviour and is able to live a relitively normal life.
    There is a ton of information on both drugs and all of us should know something about them.Have a good day everyone.....Dave

  17. #17
    Solonne is offline Member
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    Default

    No Mo, after reading your posts on various threads, I'm not sure that 8 or 9 days clean makes you an expert on anything. People become addicted or dependent for different reasons. Just stopping the pills won't necessarily make everything better. Some people may have underlying mental, physical, emotional, or psychological conditions that won't be made "better" just by stopping the drugs. Some might need additional help such as counseling or helper drugs like sub or meth. Yeah, I'm sure there are people on here that wish they had never started meth or sub... but you have to remember that these people ARE addcits. I think sub has probably helped way more people than it has hurt. Having the will to stop has very little to do with it because the biggest obstacle will be your own brain. Many of the people on here have tried over and over to stop. Some of them have gone thru CT w/d's numerous times to just start using again. Honestly, I don't think you should knock anything that works to keep another addict off his DOC. There's also the quality of life issue. While sub & meth may be addicting, it can enable addicts to hold a job, take care of their families, stop stealing, etc. Every step forward is just that - a step forward. It's nice to hear a successful CT story but don't assume everyone else's methods are wrong based on what you think is working for you. ESPECIALLY when you've never even used sub or methadone. You made a comment about no one saying "atta boy" and that you aren't wanted on here. This makes me wonder just how successful your program has been. You don't need anyone to tell you atta boy, No Mo. You just need to stay off the drugs. Period. WHatever works for you. Stopping your DOC is just the first step, No Mo. Recovery can take years... even a lifetime.

    I wish you all (including No Mo) nothing but love & light and look forward to hearing from all of you as you progress on your way through recovery.
    Last edited by Solonne; 10-03-2007 at 05:43 PM. Reason: typo queen

  18. #18
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    Couldn't have said it better myself Solonne,good post and makes all the sense in the world....Dave

  19. #19
    submom is offline Member
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    Default NO More

    You make it sound so easy. For you maybe it was. But for the most...its a daily battle. You talk about your "free" you just quit cold turkey and were done with it...have you ever tried before and not had such strength to just do it? many people have tried and failed and tried again...we all do what works for us. Please let me make it clear that i am oh so proud of you for having the strength and courage to do what i could not. but i am off the norco...granted i am using suboxone but that was my choice. MY right path. You stated on your thread that you are getting no "atta boys" or "good job" but you see we did not see you struggle...we didnt think you needed our support because you were off and DOING GREAT!! SOrry if you feel you have not been supported in your journey...i would never want someone to come here and still feel like they are alone...you have done something amazing...and for that you should be proud...but please dont judge me for the methods that i am choosing to use...the ones that are working for me...just as i wont judge you for yours.
    My best to you and may you continue to have strength...

  20. #20
    Solonne is offline Member
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    From my perspective, stopping the drugs was... awful (painful, etc)... but as long as I didn't have any to take, it's really pretty easy to stop taking them... initially. What took me by surprise was how HABITUAL reaching for a pill is. My mind is TRAINED to take the pills when I'm "supposed" to take them. Once my conscious mind registers that it's "time"... that's when the mental game starts. That's when the mental struggle begins. THAT is when it gets hard. I think that's why SO many addicts go through the pain of withdrawl only to begin using them again after being clean for x amount of days, weeks, months. It's a hard concept to grasp if you've never truly been addicted to something. Unfortunately, for the addict, I think it's all to easy to understand. It's like I see a glimmer of what's really going on... but at the same time it JUST out of my reach. Very weird.

  21. #21
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Solonne, honey, I sure hope you get yourself to the point where you need to be. You would make a great counsellor in a substance abuse program, you've got the experience, the mind, you're very articulate and you can recognize bull*hi*. I'm a little tired right now so I hope I'm not choosing the wrong words. I just recognize a diamond in the rough in you. Talk to you later, Solonne. I hope so, anyway.
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  22. #22
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Congratulations! Hope it sticks. If you think that the Almighty has delivered you, your thanks should be directed to Him--and I assume they are. Please don't take my words as condescension. Congratulations on getting through your initial phase of breking free from the shackles, now comes the hard part believe it or not. God Bless you in that effort. Congrats again!
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  23. #23
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    Just a little addendum to my question, and thanks to all of you who have answered it. Is there a "high" or euphoric feeling in using Suboxone?
    Mike VG
    Mike VG

  24. #24
    alonenomore is offline Junior Member
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    Hey mike and everyone else, Submom, solone. I would not describe what i feel as a high from suboxone. Its like it removed the cobwebs in my brain, made it easier to think positive, broke my ass-kicking machine, gave me back my dignitity which is helping to restore my self-worth and self-esteem. No Mo...i would rather be taking suboxone once a day for the rest of my life, than get back on the rollercoaster of pill popping. Why is it okay for say a diabetic to take insulin if it is not okay for an addict to take something that takes away their disease? I'm not lying to my loved ones, especially my husband, spending money i don't have, and I am not committing a major felony every four days when i meet up with the folks who supply me? I am no longer thrashing my liver and yelling at my kids. I can remember what I did this time last week...for me suboxone has been simply magic. Am i concerned about getting off the subs and how that will feel? Not unless I read a bunch of negative postings about what has been one of the most positive treatments i have ever tried and i have tried at least a thousands times....Expensive, yes. But wasn't my habit?? I do not believe being treated for diabetes or even say cancer is cheap. I believe that with further research and studies, insurance companies will realize that it is cheaper for them in the long run to cover suboxone treatment. As a social worker, who is nine months away from my Master's Degree in social work (my bachelor's is in social work), and who has worked with many different types of folks in the substance abuse field, I would definitely suggest to anyone who suffered as I have, that they speak with THEIR PHYSICIAN about possibly trying suboxone. I am not a trained medical professional, these are my own opinions, based upon my educational background and whole heck of a lot of life experience.

    DAY SEVEN WITHOUT ABUSING ANYTHING, INCLUDING MYSELF.

  25. #25
    Mike VG is offline Senior Member
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    That's very cool. Very cool. By the way my Mother received her Master's Degree in Psychology and counselled the mentally ill homeless, and Vietnam Veterans. I can't say enough about how people overcome their obstacles and go on and become the person they've strived to be. Good job! You are definitely an overcomer and though I don't know you, I am proud of you. God's Blessings.
    Mike VG
    Last edited by Mike VG; 10-30-2007 at 12:07 AM.
    Mike VG

  26. #26
    Survivor23 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by alonenomore View Post
    Hey mike and everyone else, Submom, solone. I would not describe what i feel as a high from suboxone. Its like it removed the cobwebs in my brain, made it easier to think positive, broke my ass-kicking machine, gave me back my dignitity which is helping to restore my self-worth and self-esteem. No Mo...i would rather be taking suboxone once a day for the rest of my life, than get back on the rollercoaster of pill popping. Why is it okay for say a diabetic to take insulin if it is not okay for an addict to take something that takes away their disease? I'm not lying to my loved ones, especially my husband, spending money i don't have, and I am not committing a major felony every four days when i meet up with the folks who supply me? I am no longer thrashing my liver and yelling at my kids. I can remember what I did this time last week...for me suboxone has been simply magic. Am i concerned about getting off the subs and how that will feel? Not unless I read a bunch of negative postings about what has been one of the most positive treatments i have ever tried and i have tried at least a thousands times....Expensive, yes. But wasn't my habit?? I do not believe being treated for diabetes or even say cancer is cheap. I believe that with further research and studies, insurance companies will realize that it is cheaper for them in the long run to cover suboxone treatment. As a social worker, who is nine months away from my Master's Degree in social work (my bachelor's is in social work), and who has worked with many different types of folks in the substance abuse field, I would definitely suggest to anyone who suffered as I have, that they speak with THEIR PHYSICIAN about possibly trying suboxone. I am not a trained medical professional, these are my own opinions, based upon my educational background and whole heck of a lot of life experience.

    DAY SEVEN WITHOUT ABUSING ANYTHING, INCLUDING MYSELF.

    "Am i concerned about getting off the subs and how that will feel? Not unless I read a bunch of negative postings about what has been one of the most positive treatments i have ever tried"


    I found the sentence above to really hit home for me, it was like I wrote it myself. Suboxone, was (is) the best thing I'v ever run into. I'm in my early twenties, with a young child...The vicoden & Loratab, had me soo hooked...I'd get paid, buy everything my son needed for the week - diapers, food, wipes, all that...make sure he had everything he needed...send in MINIMUN payments on my bills...and basically the rest would go to pills, I'd go see the dealer every two days for 20-25 at a time. And be s********************ing money together by the end of the week and getting fronts and playing catch up. (Just a little of my background)
    Now, I feel almost like I have a new adiction - READING ALL KINDS OF BOARDS! (Not really a NEW addiction but I hope you get what I'm saying)
    My doctor put me on a 2 week detox plan, which we both agreed would work for me, the first week I did sooooooo well (starting oct. 15th) Went to my next appoitment on the 22nd...still doing really good....Then I started reading all these negative things about the withdrawl from suboxone, and don't just jump off blah blah blah - Which my doctor cut me down to 12 mgs and then 8 mgs and thats where I was going to stop. After reading more and more...I messed up on taking my pills - breaking them in peices and taking them that way. Yesterday - I bought everything on the Thomas Recipe from GNC because now I am extremly scared thinking I'm going to go through w/d's from suboxone for MONTHS! So really I'm at a loss for words and don't really know what to do..Like I said....I can't keep taking them forever...Especially because I have 2 1/2 8 mg pills left...So now I need a taper program and skipped my appoitment on monday - beacuse I figured...hey he's just going to take me off anyyways...Because he told me thats the last time he would see me...(and I was low on funds) so now I can't even call him for help.

    So basically, I'm asking for some advice and support...Thanks for taking the time to read this long post!
    Last edited by Survivor23; 10-30-2007 at 10:42 AM. Reason: fixing the *********

  27. #27
    Survivor23 is offline Junior Member
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    Default 1 more thing..

    I'm still free of vicoden and loratab, I don't ever want to go back to that - but it is getting tough. I'm not feeling any WD or craving, but just a lot of stress..but I'm still OFF the pills for 15 days!! So thats what really counts!

  28. #28
    alonenomore is offline Junior Member
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    thanks mike for your reply, i have followed your posts on this site for weeks and think you are a wonderfull inspiratin for me with good things to say always. Thanks again.

    Survivor..i wish you had not just stopped like that, my doc is weaning me all the way down to 1 mg before i am off. IT is not a crutch, it is saving us. Like i said above, who cares what people think as long as we are living honest and right lives? Would your child rather you were sick and depressed, or living a normal life? I dunno. For me, i am sticking with the program i have with a six month taper schedule. take care and good luck survivor. I have not heard much negative stuff about those who taper all the way down. Talk to submom as well, she knows!!

  29. #29
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    Smile Off Sub

    I have been off suboxone since September. The only thing that worked for me was actually tapering very very slooooooooooowly. To the point where I was taking a crumb every 4-6 days, the second I felt an ache that resembled the hell of w/d.

    I must admit that I, like others on Sub, would have taken it for the rest of my life if it meant not having to back to the addictions of opiates. But honestly, I was at the point where TAKING Sub was making me sick to my stomach.......

    By the slooooooooooow taper, (get that? sloooooooooooow, lol) I eventually got to the point where I realized that I hadn't taken a "piece" in a week. And it was over.

    No, I do not have any desire, need or want to return to using oxy's. I have no cravings or urges. Still lots and lots of fear though. A healthy fear, some may say!

    Hugs,
    Janice
    Janice
    I shall remain grateful for Suboxone...........

  30. #30
    alonenomore is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Thank you Janice, that is what I needed to hear. SLOOOOWWW TAPER. I will never do anything except what my doctor says regarding this drug...u have to trust your doc!!

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