[tired2]

Originally Posted by bev49

Pam, thank you so much for the post clarifying things to me. I admit my feelings got hurt because I thought you were directing the other post my way. A little paranoia, maybe? . I am gonna start a new thread because I just want to express certain feelings I have when I get my thoughts together on it about my feelings on success. Anyway, I'm glad you're posting again. You helped me alot when I needed it. If not for you, I'd still have no idea how to break these stupid pills down and wouldn't have been able to get as low as I have. When I am busy, I just break them into tiny tieeny pieces but of course, then they arent accurate. I just tell myself with the long halflife it will catch up. A little less one day, a little more the next, and its been working ok for me. But more often than not, I have my piece of glass and my lines. Thanks to you for that. Hope the benzo taper is not kicking your butt too much. If you were strong enough to do the one, you will do the other too, even thought it might be harder. I have faith, Pam.

Bev...no problem my goal is not to hurt anyone only help. I see you mentioned that you are dosing less one day and more the next....not to tell you what to do but you should try to stay consistant with your doses it will make it easier to taper and you are so close. What dose are you on now???
You can get those lines down to very low doses and have them ready so when you are busy your good to go. I use to have mine ready for each taper.
I'd take my morning dose then one around 5pm give or take.

My benzo taper is moving along ...I just dislike how long it takes but I'm getting there. Thank's for asking.
Pam

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by tired2

Henry know problem with the thread...just want to get you feeling better. I must agree with Robert that doctor has no FREAKIN idea what he is doing....mine tried to up my dose that high at one point just never had me doing it 4x a day.
How long have you been on Ativan and what dose were you taking the reason I'm asking is that it is a benzo and it's not recommended to c/t off any benzo .
I was on Klonopin while tapering from my sub's and have currently switched over to Diazepam which I have been tapering off with Robert
You sound as determined as I was...I have been opiate free 14 weeks and have no desire to use...
Well get those subs and Robert will get you stable.
Take Care,
Pam

Hello Pam,
GGGGGRRRRRRrrrrrrrrr Insurance Companies and red tape. First my doctor called in the prescrip for Subutex. Last night I saw on line that they ordered it. Today I see that it is still in progress so I called the pharmacy and they said they don't carry that med and they have to check with their wholesaler. I told them that they are a chain the the same pharmacy across the street from the doctors office carrier it so the lady got snotty and said "well what do you want me to do? Call them for it?" Bitting my tongue I just called my doctors office and they are nice enough to transfer the prescription to the pharmacy across the street from them. Now the insurance problem. If they don't clear it then that is 400 some odd bucks out of my pocket. Oh well I can always look at it as a small price to pay to be clean right? If need be I will pay it. Only thing is it won't be ready until tomorrow after noon time and that is still 24 hours from where I am here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Also this other pharmacy is much farther than the one closer to home. It takes me 45 minutes to get to that doctors office.
Since I have been off the Suboxone since last Friday I have been feeling more and more anxious day by day and my depression deepens noticably. Today I am sitting here at my desk at work shaking and sweating so bad my boss told me to just go ahead and take the suboxone as one or two won't kill me and it will tie me over until I get the right med and Robert and You can get me on the right track. So I just took a half pill (1mg) about 15 minutes ago. Still shaky but not sweating as much now. Strange huh how little chemical pills can mess up one's life.
I'll let you know what happens.
Have a great day!
I'm trying to keep my mind straight and the muscle and bone aches in the back of my thoughts right now.

[Robert_325]

Henry .... obviously I wish you hadn't taken the 1mg but I understand that you don't know the process of re-induction and that doing this can affect it. Plus I understand how tough a time you're having at work. PLEASE don't take ANYTHING else but the blood pressure medication.

I spent my life as a financial advisor and in the insurance business. Had my own company and have dealt with half the insurance companies in the country. If your dr switched that script over to the other pharmacy (really nice of him to do that) the worst thing that could happen would be you pay for the subutex and when it's all said and done that insurance company will end up reimbursing you for your out-of-pocket expense. Only way they wouldn't pay is if they had a network of pharmacies on your plan and the one you used wasn't on it. Even then they would reimburse you a sizeable portion of the cost. So I would not worry about that part especially if you are financially able to cover the script until all this can get worked out. I see NO problem for you there.

Sincerely buddy, don't take anymore subs. I need you to have that trash naloxone OUT of your system so the subutex will work perfectly like it's supposed to. Of course if it was going to take a week or something to get the subutex we would have to figure out something else.

Hang in there and keep me posted. You're in my prayers dude. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by bev49

Henry, let me just back up what Robert and Pam say about the doctor. He sounds like one of the many true morons when it comes to treating with this. Four times a day with something that stays in your system so long makes no sense. 24 mgs. makes no sense. I have to tell you this. I had some of the symptoms you describe. No sleep, jittery, nervous. It was the high dose. It wasn't til I got down to maybe 6 or 4 that I started feeling great. I wish I knew what the edema was all about. I don't

Hi Bev,
The edema on both legs is a mystery. Since my Mom was diagnosed with stage 4+ cancer last year April I have been really trying hard to clean up my act especially health wise. When she passed in January this year all the more I am determined to be clean of all these meds and be in the best health and shape I have ever been in. Taking opiates for about 5 years I noticed the edema wasn't really bad and in fact I would make a joke about it by taking a coin and pressing in on my shin with it and the coin would imprint and stay there. When I was put on the Suboxone the edema became pretty bad and it got to the point where I could not sit on the floor with my legs folded under me. It hurt so bad it felt like they were going to pop like a balloon. Experimenting with various dosages and such I have found that my doctor was correct when he said that Suboxone can cause edema. At least he was right about that. After having been off the Suboxone last week except for 1 x 2mg tablet last Wednesday and 1/2 tablet on Friday I have been off of the Suboxone except for today and the edema has all but disappeared. The reason I took a 1/2 tablet today is I am trying to get switched over to Subutex but with the insurance and other red tape it is taking a bit longer than I thought. Meanwhile the depression and w/d was starting to hit pretty hard and today while sitting at my desk shaking and sweating buckets my boss said to just take the Suboxone as it won't kill me to take a tablet or half of one for that matter and it should be enough to take the edge off until I can get the Subutex so I took the half tablet and that was about 2 and a half hours ago or there abouts. Strange how powerful these kinds of meds are. This morning I went from a quivering, shaking, sweating, anxious, depressed person to now one that is more calm, no longer shaking or sweating, mildly anxious and the best part is the pain in the legs and hips (bone and muscle) are gone. It could be all in my head but I don't think so and I believe that it really is the med that is doing all this. Nasty stuff dealing with opiates.

[bev49]

Pam, Im not really mixing doses. I break it up into powder most of the time and get fairly accurate doses. Sometimes 1/8 of a pill 1x a day, sometimes 1/4, mostly 1/8 now... Occasionally when I don't have time, I break them. The pieces are so ridiculously tiny. Breaking them into 8, they arent all equal.. So I might not be getting the exact dose but with the half life as it is, less one day, the bigger piece the next doesnt seem to be affecting me at all. I am down really low. I feel fine. My issue is not rushing to the finish line. Its not what I advise anyway. I tell anyway, go faster to the finish line or you are substituing one addiction for another. My addiction was so massive, I feel (just me, for me) that I need as much time as I need to fascilitate the final drop. I try to stick with the lines and accuracy most of the time though Pam. You are right.

Henry I really wish I could understand the edema. My husbad had it due to liver problems. Other people have it as a result of blood pressure issues. I never heard of it as a side effect of sub, although that doesnt mean its not, just that i'm not aware of it. I'm glad you took the bit of suboxone today. Better than withdrawal. I hope the subutex works for you.Remember to keep the doses low. High doses equal side effects from my observations. Ask Robert and Pam too. Sorry about mom.

[bev49]

Another thing Pam. I take it one time a day. I KNOW this is not the recommended way although my doctor said it was fine. I was on meth so long and we got doses once a day and because of its long halflife it was fine. The sub is the same for me. First of all, I get busy and would forget my afternoon dose. I did in the beginning when i wa sdoing the 2x a day. Second, I never felt even a twinge of withdrawal and I'm down pretty low already. I dont recommend you (not you Pam, the collective YOU out there reading and tapering LOL) don't necessarily do it my way. Some can, for example Purple where they onlyh dose you once in NZ... But if the recommended thing is 2x a day and it will make things easier, by all means do it that way. I'm just saying what works for me. A tiny piece or crumbs in the morning. (If I'm taking 1/8 of a 2 mg. pill, whats the decimal amount. Sorry to sound liek a moron. It's been a long time since I've been in Jr. High where we learned that).

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Henry .... obviously I wish you hadn't taken the 1mg but I understand that you don't know the process of re-induction and that doing this can affect it. Plus I understand how tough a time you're having at work. PLEASE don't take ANYTHING else but the blood pressure medication.

I spent my life as a financial advisor and in the insurance business. Had my own company and have dealt with half the insurance companies in the country. If your dr switched that script over to the other pharmacy (really nice of him to do that) the worst thing that could happen would be you pay for the subutex and when it's all said and done that insurance company will end up reimbursing you for your out-of-pocket expense. Only way they wouldn't pay is if they had a network of pharmacies on your plan and the one you used wasn't on it. Even then they would reimburse you a sizeable portion of the cost. So I would not worry about that part especially if you are financially able to cover the script until all this can get worked out. I see NO problem for you there.

Sincerely buddy, don't take anymore subs. I need you to have that trash naloxone OUT of your system so the subutex will work perfectly like it's supposed to. Of course if it was going to take a week or something to get the subutex we would have to figure out something else.

Hang in there and keep me posted. You're in my prayers dude. God bless.

Hello Robert,
Dealing with drugs is complex isn't it? I didn't want to take the half tablet of Suboxone but as shaky and ************ as I felt and then finding out that now the pharmacy is talking about possibly getting the med on Thursday or Friday I just said the heck with it. My line of work is pretty high stress and high pressure. Somewhat akin to air traffic control where say you have 600 inbound and outbound flights and you put major problems on 590 of them and you have what I do. Put out fires all day long and the last thing I need is to have to sit here and worry about how I am feeling. I'm not making excuses but just putting a perspective on where I am. That said I am not taking any more Suboxone until I get the Subutex period. If you said I need the Naloxone out of my system then that is what I need to concentrate on and I will do just that. Get it out of my system. I really want to be done with this garbage and get back to a normal life Just curious but how long does this drug stay in your system? And you are absolutely correct that I have no idea how Re-induction works or what it is for that matter. As for the cost I just view it as a small price to pay for better health even if I wind up footing the entire cost. The good things about a bad thing though is that I view things somewhat differently in regards to things such as W/D. The more I suffer the more I don't want to go back to it. The more money it costs me the most I stay away from it. So in those regards it is a good learing tool for me and if anything at all a great reminder. I'll keep you posted as I move along. Thanks for your support all. Keep the faith!

[bev49]

I just thought a small amount of suboxone would be better than major w/d if he couldnt get it til thursday or friday. I suppose I'm incorrect. Unintentianally

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by bev49

I just thought a small amount of suboxone would be better than major w/d if he couldnt get it til thursday or friday. I suppose I'm incorrect. Unintentianally

No worries Bev, The intent and meaning was well noted. If need be I can always stay off the Suboxone again for as long as necessary as the more I learn here the stronger I get. In the begining it is all very freightening and many doctors are no help in regards to patient's mental health. They look at you and all of two minutes later are walking out the door saying let me see you back in two weeks and you leave the office more confused, frustrated, scared, and upset than when you went in and the worst part is you have ten fold more questions all of which it seems many doctors don't want to partake in answering. I even had one cocky doctor say when I pulled out a list of queston that I wanted to ask that when I said "doctor would you mind if I asked you some questions? He said "one question, ten thousand questions all the same I make no fortune from questions. Read away". I almost felt like telling him where to go. Perhaps a doctor knows but most patients do not and that is why patients go to doctors. You have already done more positive things for me that most doctors have and that is just by the simple fact that you actually took the time to listen and respond which shows you care so I thank you for that. I would rather take your advice than have a doctor shrug his shoulders and say don't worry about it and walk out of the room leaving me with nothing. Meanwhile although I shouldn't have taken the half tablet of Suboxone I now at least can think more clearly and reread everything you, Robert and others have said and actually comprehend what was said and transpiring instead of sitting here skimming over the text without really having it sink in because I felt like ********. I guess you could say it helps give me a new perspective from a different angle so all in all it was a postive so I say thank you.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bev49

Another thing Pam. I take it one time a day. I KNOW this is not the recommended way although my doctor said it was fine. I was on meth so long and we got doses once a day and because of its long halflife it was fine. The sub is the same for me. First of all, I get busy and would forget my afternoon dose. I did in the beginning when i wa sdoing the 2x a day. Second, I never felt even a twinge of withdrawal and I'm down pretty low already. I dont recommend you (not you Pam, the collective YOU out there reading and tapering LOL) don't necessarily do it my way. Some can, for example Purple where they onlyh dose you once in NZ... But if the recommended thing is 2x a day and it will make things easier, by all means do it that way. I'm just saying what works for me. A tiny piece or crumbs in the morning. (If I'm taking 1/8 of a 2 mg. pill, whats the decimal amount. Sorry to sound liek a moron. It's been a long time since I've been in Jr. High where we learned that).

Taking subs once a day is fine. The only reasons I ever started suggesting two doses is (1) lots of people struggle with having being used to popping something in their mouth all day. Two doses helps those people without it being addictive behavior. (2) When we do a reduction in the taper on two doses that reduction is spread over two doses and that makes it a little easier physically for some people.

Whatever works for the individual is fine. Definitely don't want to dose any more than twice though, that's the maximum.

Taking 1/8 of a 2mg pill is .25mg. To figure it just always take your current dose and multiply it times .75 which equals a 25% reduction. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Evening folks,
Just wanted to say thanks and keep the faith. No matter what though as I mentioned a while back in one of my posts that we are all human and subject to mistakes otherwise we wouldn't be here right? So in learing from our errors I view them as progressive setbacks as in the two steps forward one step back. As long as the movement if forward that is the key. We all try out best to do what is right and as long as the intention is good and honorable then although harm may be done then we still win in the sense that what better way to learn that through experience. I agree with many of you that many doctors really have no clue. They are learning just as we all are and that is why medicine is called a practice. I see all sorts of different personalities on this forum and the positive sensitivity and consideration is there for many and that is a good thing. Something that is lacking greatly in today's society unfortunately.
Have a great evening folks. I'm just waiting for my scrip for Subutex to come through. Appeciate everyone's contributions.

[Robert_325]

Henry .... if it's going to be Thursday or Friday before you get the subutex I wouldn't sweat it that you took that little amount. Waiting a week like you would have been doing and I would have suggested that you just go ahead and try to stop it cold. You didn't do anything that will ruin what you're trying to do. It's just that when you do an induction the more in w/d you are the better. So I was going to try to induct you at the very lowest possible dose which we can still do. And I definitely don't want you crashing any airplanes into each other over a piece of suboxone. That would be pretty foolish so don't worry about it. You'll be fine. Just try to get the new medication asap. It's all good. God bless.

[tired2]

Hi Henry...Sorry to hear about your problem getting your Subutex...I ran into the same problem with Walgreens not having Subutex so I took back my script called Osco who did have it...I didn't have any problem getting my ins. to pay for it thank God...
Robert hit it right on the head about ins. companies . Did you call the pharmacy ...the reason I ask is I called in a script and it said it was pending but when I called they told me it was ready and had been approved....but if not and you can afford to pay up front and wait for the reimbursement I'd do that for sure.

I see you ended up taking Suboxone I know it is hard but I wouldn't take anymore ...You need to follow Roberts instructions I hope you get your subs soon.
Talk soon,
Pam

[bev49]

Thanks for the math lesson Rob. I really forgot decimals. I havent been in school since
19something (real long ago).... Also, its interesting about the dosing. There is one of the most obvious differences between pill heads and methadone people. Pill people pop all day so the 2x works better. Meth clinics dose 1x a day so the 1x a day sub works better. Interesting, we are all opiate addicts with these subtle little differences.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by tired2

Hi Henry...Sorry to hear about your problem getting your Subutex...I ran into the same problem with Walgreens not having Subutex so I took back my script called Osco who did have it...I didn't have any problem getting my ins. to pay for it thank God...
Robert hit it right on the head about ins. companies . Did you call the pharmacy ...the reason I ask is I called in a script and it said it was pending but when I called they told me it was ready and had been approved....but if not and you can afford to pay up front and wait for the reimbursement I'd do that for sure.

I see you ended up taking Suboxone I know it is hard but I wouldn't take anymore ...You need to follow Roberts instructions I hope you get your subs soon.
Talk soon,
Pam

Hello Pam,
I really didn't want to take the Suboxone but the funny thing was I didn't realize I was shaking and sweating so bad and when my boss walked by he freaked out so he was the one that said "take it. It won't kill you and it will help calm you down until you can start your new program." I just called my pharmacy, which is Walgreens by the way, and they said the reason they didn't have it is because it is a med that is not requested so they are checking with their wholesaler. Now they have it but are trying to get it cleared through insurance. The pharmacist, I know him from going there so many years, was very nervous about something and was asking strange questions so I was honest and told him I am prescribed this med for opiate withdrawal because of the scrips for the percs and vics over the years I got hooked on that stuff and want to get off of it. He was very conservative about his choice of words and the inclination was that if I get this scrip filled that the information will be passed on to some law enforcement agency and I could be in trouble??? Doesn't make sense to me as it's not like I was buying illegally or anythng and everything was doctor written. Intersting theory though. I wonder if stuff like this does get registered in some database with some agency that monitors things? Anyway I am supposed to get a call back from him and either way I will pick up the Subutex later today first chance I get. This is better because the Walgreens by my doctors office is a good hour away from me.

[HenryNCBA]

Well my pharmacy called back and said that my insurance won't authorize the Subutex because I have a scrip for Suboxone that was filled not long ago and also my doctors office needs to preauthorize the scrip which they already did. Get this. I asked the pharmacist if I can just come in and pickup the scrip and pay cash and I will work it out with the insurance company and he just said "I am really busy right now. Can you call me back later today" and hangs up.
That's service for you!
I swear medical services today do not give much thought or regard to a patients mental health status. A patient could flip out worrying or suffering over something in the meantime. So I guess now I have to wait till later today. I called and had to leave a message so I'll try again a bit later.
Voice mail. Yah gotta love it.

[bev49]

My thoughts here are that if you got the suboxone less than a month ago, by law they can't fill another scrip for it. Its a narcotic. If it were me, I would take the lowest possible dose of suboxone til you can work this out with pharm/doc/ins. (they all suck). The way I've read this is that your choice now is side effect or withdrawal. I would take the least possible amount and work on straightening this out. Maybe your doc can explain that what he original perscribed is not working? But he obviously won't take the time. It sounds like you are going to have to just wait til the month is up. The one advantage to living in NYC is that we have an overabundance of druggies of all stripes so all drug stores are knowledgable about this stuff and when you click the zip code for sub doctors there are many many. Its a party for them. They're all getting rich!! Im really sorry you're having such a hard time with this, Henry .

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Well my pharmacy called back and said that my insurance won't authorize the Subutex because I have a scrip for Suboxone that was filled not long ago and also my doctors office needs to preauthorize the scrip which they already did. Get this. I asked the pharmacist if I can just come in and pickup the scrip and pay cash and I will work it out with the insurance company and he just said "I am really busy right now. Can you call me back later today" and hangs up.
That's service for you!
I swear medical services today do not give much thought or regard to a patients mental health status. A patient could flip out worrying or suffering over something in the meantime. So I guess now I have to wait till later today. I called and had to leave a message so I'll try again a bit later.
Voice mail. Yah gotta love it.

That is a crock! You have NOT done anything illegal. I would go to the pharmacy and stand there until they give you the subutex. Pay for it with cash and go get on the computer and I will help you with getting the re-induction going.

Your dr gave it to you for a legitimate reason. If you had a reaction to a different controlled substance and the dr gave you something different to compenstate for that the authorities wouldn't come after you. Some people need to just do their job and leave legalities to the legal experts. You're using the same dr, not dr shopping. You had a reaction to naloxone. That is not re-upping your script early.

If a question comes up about this in the future from anyone you have your dr to back you up. Again I emphasize that you have NOT done anything illegal and no one is going to put you in jail for getting that subutex. You're getting clean for goodness sake!

People at your pharmacy need to back off. I would go off on that pharmacist so fast if he gave me a hard time. Tell him you'll take your chances. I've never heard of anything so stupid in my life. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

That is a crock! You have NOT done anything illegal. I would go to the pharmacy and stand there until they give you the subutex. Pay for it with cash and go get on the computer and I will help you with getting the re-induction going.

Your dr gave it to you for a legitimate reason. If you had a reaction to a different controlled substance and the dr gave you something different to compenstate for that the authorities wouldn't come after you. Some people need to just do their job and leave legalities to the legal experts. You're using the same dr, not dr shopping. You had a reaction to naloxone. That is not re-upping your script early.

If a question comes up about this in the future from anyone you have your dr to back you up. Again I emphasize that you have NOT done anything illegal and no one is going to put you in jail for getting that subutex. You're getting clean for goodness sake!

People at your pharmacy need to back off. I would go off on that pharmacist so fast if he gave me a hard time. Tell him you'll take your chances. I've never heard of anything so stupid in my life. God bless.

This is part of the problem with living in California and the Bay Area. We have so many "in between the lines" so to speak of and so many people that are sue crazy that they have everyone paranoid. I called the pharmacist and found out why he is going crazy. Apparently they have the "flu shots" thing going and not only are they taking the appointments for with the swine flu scare there are tons of walk in people and some are getting irrate with him for the shots. He apologized and sent a preauthorization to my doctors office which confirmed they got it and are working on it. Meanwhile here at the Port where I work in Int' and Domestic Cargo Transporation we have homeland security looking at medical records and things like that which is why I was concerned. Yes they do look at thinks like addiction which is an unfortuante thing as I fell into this mess with my eyes only partially open. I am not saying I am completely innocent cause I should have known better taking the scrips for the opiates for so long, they even gave classes on it gee wiz!, but one of those things that just happened so to speak and I am trying to make it right. If I can just tear away from these projects I'm working on I will run over and just pay for the Subutex and worry about the insurance later and deal with it as it comes. I'll let you know what happens.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

This is part of the problem with living in California and the Bay Area. We have so many "in between the lines" so to speak of and so many people that are sue crazy that they have everyone paranoid. I called the pharmacist and found out why he is going crazy. Apparently they have the "flu shots" thing going and not only are they taking the appointments for with the swine flu scare there are tons of walk in people and some are getting irrate with him for the shots. He apologized and sent a preauthorization to my doctors office which confirmed they got it and are working on it. Meanwhile here at the Port where I work in Int' and Domestic Cargo Transporation we have homeland security looking at medical records and things like that which is why I was concerned. Yes they do look at thinks like addiction which is an unfortuante thing as I fell into this mess with my eyes only partially open. I am not saying I am completely innocent cause I should have known better taking the scrips for the opiates for so long, they even gave classes on it gee wiz!, but one of those things that just happened so to speak and I am trying to make it right. If I can just tear away from these projects I'm working on I will run over and just pay for the Subutex and worry about the insurance later and deal with it as it comes. I'll let you know what happens.

I just got home from the dr with my knee problem a little bit ago so I'm not going anywhere. I will be here waiting for you. Just let me know when you get them.

PLEASE wait till you get online with me so we can do this the right way. I'll be waiting for you my friend. I'm ready when you are. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Already Gone

Sorry, Henry, for trying to post to your issue while doing 15 other things. If I would have stayed on task I would have realized that you haven't gotten these issues ironed out - it only seems to be getting worse. I am so sorry for this situation and I feel stupid, because you obviously know by now how badly you need this alternative drug.

You definitely need to stay online and follow Robert's directions because I have no idea what he'll advise you to do while this standoff continues. I know for me, I would be very reluctant to ingest any more of that poison, but Bev above is suggesting enough to keep yourself out of withdrawal...so, Robert is a Suboxone/Subutex expert, you will do well to follow his advice/instructions to the letter. Honestly, I'll be following this with great interest to see what he'll advise. Maddening, just maddening. God save us from those who must save us from ourselves (pharmacy workers ???)

Hello Already Gone,
I am taking Robert's advice and staying off the Suboxone until I acquire the Subutex. He stated that for the induction to work best it is best if I am in the W/D stages most like it seems to me at the worst possible phases which is logical. I have a high tolerence for pain as right now my hips and legs are killing me not to mention the deep depression, might not sound like it, anxiety, shaking, sweating, and other things. About the only thing I can not have is a fuzzy head due to my job. Right now I can see straight and think clearly so I will just wait till I get the Subutex. And to think over 35 years ago back in the old high school days we thought drugs were fun

[HenryNCBA]

Robert,
Looks like the battle between the insurance company, doctors office and the pharmacy is heating up. Just got a call from the pharmacy and they said instead of paying the full amount to just come by and pickup 6 tablets which they worked out with my doctors office. They said they will deal with the insurance company as "the patient is suffering".
Running over there. Be back in about 1.5 hours.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Robert,
Looks like the battle between the insurance company, doctors office and the pharmacy is heating up. Just got a call from the pharmacy and they said instead of paying the full amount to just come by and pickup 6 tablets which they worked out with my doctors office. They said they will deal with the insurance company as "the patient is suffering".
Running over there. Be back in about 1.5 hours.

THAT IS GREAT! Six pills will be enough for us to get you smoothed out while the powers at be work out all the nonsense. I'll be waiting for you.

If you post and I am not online I will be back in JUST a few minutes. I'm having to get up and move my knee around a little. But I'm here and waiting.

This is a good break. Six pills will be enough to get us started for sure. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

THAT IS GREAT! Six pills will be enough for us to get you smoothed out while the powers at be work out all the nonsense. I'll be waiting for you.

If you post and I am not online I will be back in JUST a few minutes. I'm having to get up and move my knee around a little. But I'm here and waiting.

This is a good break. Six pills will be enough to get us started for sure. God bless.

Okay I'm back,
I have the 6 tablets. Just as FYI in case you wanted to know but you probably already do the scrip on the instructions says "Place one table (yes it says table not tablet) under the tongue twice daily".
I can see why the pharmicist was short with me earlier. It is a mad house in there with people almost in a frenzy for a flu shot.
Following your instructions I have not taken any subs since the last one yesterday. Only thing I have taken is the blood pressure meds along with other meds for diabetes, cholesterol, etc.... I'm pretty messed up but trying to get back on a healthy track.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Okay I'm back,
I have the 6 tablets. Just as FYI in case you wanted to know but you probably already do the scrip on the instructions says "Place one table (yes it says table not tablet) under the tongue twice daily".
I can see why the pharmicist was short with me earlier. It is a mad house in there with people almost in a frenzy for a flu shot.
Following your instructions I have not taken any subs since the last one yesterday. Only thing I have taken is the blood pressure meds along with other meds for diabetes, cholesterol, etc.... I'm pretty messed up but trying to get back on a healthy track.

OK buddy that is great! I'm proud of you for holding off until you got on here. Gives me a lot better chance of being able to help you the right way.

We will be taking this slowly. We want to get you stable at the lowest dose possible. It will also make those pills go lots farther than they think. Go along with me and we'll have you stable on a VERY SMALL AMOUNT.

This is very important .... I'm assuming you have 8mg pills. Is that correct? Let me know and we'll move forward as soon as I hear back from you. I'm waiting on you. You're about to feel like a new man. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Already Gone

I apologize for this response being so late - hopefully, you've picked up your Subutex by now and this is no longer an issue. I just wanted to let you know that, yes, Suboxone can and does cause, among many other almost unbearable (to some people) side effects, edema. A good number of physicians, as well as the makers of Suboxone, will deny any knowledge of this, but my personal experience is that the edema can be so bad it can literally hurt to stand on your feet. My experience (which is all I'm qualified to speak about) is that the edema is the beginning of a laundry list of problems that don't get any better as long as your body continues to have the Naloxone that Suboxone contains in your system. For example, any nausea, sweating, or issues with dizzyness will only be multiplied by the unnecessary (to most people) chemical that is found in Suboxone, and the depression follows soon after! I was amazed at the changes in my body as soon as I got what is essentially poison to me out of my system, and began on the Subutex. It was a whole new ball game; it seems to have been the same way for most people who's threads I've read on this board - if there is no danger of reverting to needle abusing behavior (if you ever did it in the first place), then there is absolutely no reason to not start a patient on Subutex rather than Suboxone.

As I said (about an hour ago, it seems like, I know )), hopefully you've gotten your issues with your RX, insurance, pharmacy, etc. ironed out and have been able to avoid putting that ******** Naloxone in your body any more, because you're obviously, like me, one of the many who cannot tolerate it. I will keep you in my prayers; I know what you're going through and the most frustrating thing is, it can easily be remedied. Good luck.

What a relief it is to me mentally that the edema and other things I am going through is not just my imagination. The edema was to say the least very stressful. Mine was so bad that I could not sit with my legs folded under me because it felt like my lower legs would explode open. That and the pitting was so bad I could press in with my thumbnail and the nail would all but disappear and I am not that big of a person. I had neck pains and stiffness so bad when I was out walking/jogging for exercise I couldn't even turn my head to look over my shoulder. Leg muscle and bone pain along with hip pain, sweating, a very strange type of headache I can not describe, very bad depression, etc... I thought it was all just part of W/D and when I did take the Suboxone only the depression and anxiety went away. The rest was still there. I showed my doctor the edema and he just poked at it and tapped his finger on my lower leg and said "that's from the Suboxone". It would be nice if the drug companies would put out information on side effects that is correct but then again they are afraid the drugs won't sell. I have never needled before on any drug but was hooked on coke back in the early 80's which I quit C/T. That was hell but this opiate ******** seems to really play with the mind allot more and I found out that I was on a very small dose all along. Just the duration is what did it to me.

[Robert_325]

Henry you there? Do you have 8mg tablets?

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

OK buddy that is great! I'm proud of you for holding off until you got on here. Gives me a lot better chance of being able to help you the right way.

We will be taking this slowly. We want to get you stable at the lowest dose possible. It will also make those pills go lots farther than they think. Go along with me and we'll have you stable on a VERY SMALL AMOUNT.

This is very important .... I'm assuming you have 8mg pills. Is that correct? Let me know and we'll move forward as soon as I hear back from you. I'm waiting on you. You're about to feel like a new man. God bless.

Negative on that. Sorry I forgot to mention the pill size. It is 2mg tablets.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Henry you there? Do you have 8mg tablets?

Sorry about that. I am doing this from work so I am trying to keep up in between projects.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Negative on that. Sorry I forgot to mention the pill size. It is 2mg tablets.

I needed to know that. Thanks! Okay we're going slow, believe me this is the way to do this. I know how to do it.

Take one of those 2mg pills and break it in half. Take half the pill under your tongue. THAT IS ALL FOR NOW! Post back to me in 30-40 minutes.

We want to do this at the smallest dose possible. We start out small and give the small dose time to do all it's going to before taking more. Let me know how you feel in about 30-40 minutes after taking the 1mg. I'll be waiting to hear from you buddy. God bless.