[tired2]

Robert... Well I have been Opiate Free for 5 weeks today and now I'm ready to get off the Benzo's ...I was able to get the 120 Diazepam....like I told you earlier I sorta increased my Klonopin from 2mg per day to 3mg for the last 10 days ...may have even taken 3.5mg once or twice...I know I never should have but the stress was pretty extreme as I explained in my e-mail earlier...

I'm ready to get off the Benzo's since the stressfull situations are behind me for now.

Thank's ,
Pam

[Robert_325]

Pam ..... I would just start a new klonopin thread. It's okay wherever you are on them is where we'll start. If you've been at 3mg klonopin then start out at 25mg of diazepam per day. Start the other thread by explaining how many times you take it and when. We'll make a gameplan on the new thread.

Congratulations on being clean from the opiates Pam. I'm proud of you. Who would have thought you would have five weeks today? That is very cool. That took lots of work and you should feel really good about yourself. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Pam
I'm glad your back , I hope things went OK for you.I know you had a hard week.
yea I had me surgery on the 10th...it went good but they nicked my bladder so they had to cut me open to stitch up my bladder so I wont be up and running as fast as I wanted to...I was going stir crazy in the house so I had Robert take me to the store and I got one of the tard go carts for the handicap people, I told him to get one to so we could have a race LOL but he wouldn't go for it,LOL but I was racing around in the store, people were getting out of my way...It was funny...
anyway glad your back...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[tired2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Pam ..... I would just start a new klonopin thread. It's okay wherever you are on them is where we'll start. If you've been at 3mg klonopin then start out at 25mg of diazepam per day. Start the other thread by explaining how many times you take it and when. We'll make a gameplan on the new thread.

Congratulations on being clean from the opiates Pam. I'm proud of you. Who would have thought you would have five weeks today? That is very cool. That took lots of work and you should feel really good about yourself. God bless.

Robert....Thank's but couldn't have done it with out you and Melinda along with all the the others support I got....but if I can do it after all the yrs. of using than anyone can do it....I do not have any desire to take any pain pills even when I get those migraines . I feel great knowing I beat those suckers!!!

I started a new thread for the Klonopin ...so well just start from there ok??? Now you said start at 25mg of diazapam per day ...my pills are .05 mg. so did you mean 2.5 mg a day or 25 mg I will look for your reply on my other thread...I put all the info there..

Thank's,
Pam

[tired2]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi Pam
I'm glad your back , I hope things went OK for you.I know you had a hard week.
yea I had me surgery on the 10th...it went good but they nicked my bladder so they had to cut me open to stitch up my bladder so I wont be up and running as fast as I wanted to...I was going stir crazy in the house so I had Robert take me to the store and I got one of the tard go carts for the handicap people, I told him to get one to so we could have a race LOL but he wouldn't go for it,LOL but I was racing around in the store, people were getting out of my way...It was funny...
anyway glad your back...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

Melinda....Yes I'm back so Robert missed me thats too funny...
I left on the 7th and got back the 17th boy it was the worst trip of my life as I mentioned earlier ...actually the last 3 weeks I was totally stressed out, I'll explain more later since I know where to find you hehehe...

Well now I have some Benzo A$$ to kick now!!!!

Ouch ,that is so wrong that they screwed up like that....Robert told me about your little race around the store ...sounds like something I would do hehehe

I hope you are feeling better...

Well I will talk to you soon,
Pam

[tired2]

Hi .....everyone I'm now I have not posted on this sight for several weeks... I'm going on 8 weeks opiate free as of this coming up Sunday and have no desire to use any opiate even when I get my horrible headaches which use to send me straight to any pill I could get my hands on but no more...That is why I also decided to write this...I hope that it can help just one person....since most people that are reading all the post on the threads may begin to fear what the symptoms will be like for them and some will not taper as they should due to fear...first we are all different...I won't say that you will not hit bumps in the road but you can get over them...remember I have been addicted to opiates and benzo's for over 25yrs along with some recreational drugs so you can pretty much add 10yrs more to my drug use.

I hope this will help some people out there it's basically RETRAINING THE BRAIN .... have you ever heard the saying a product of your environment, well we are what our brain tells us. It's how we perceive who and what we are ,so we are controlled by our brains wrong we must take control and retrain the brain to listen to us. Think about it if you say oh I hope I don't get sick the brain triggers a chemical to agitate the immune system so a chemical is released to combat the problem that does not exist, so the chemical looks for the problem it looks every where thus making us sick.
This is also what happens after taking drugs your brain is so use to the drugs that when you take it away it needs to be retrained during the taper and after...and yes you can do it.
So you can see the problem now is where I might get shot for saying this by reading posts constantly about bad symptoms day after day hr after hr if you are not a positive strong person you draw the problems into your subconscious and it can give you the symptoms your reading about .....oh no I hope I don't get those is like asking to get them .Our brain is like a chalk board blank till it is written on.... perception is everything we know 2+ 2 =4 we've trained our brain to accept this. So now we tell the brain 2+ 2=9 put it on the board we see the formula written 2+2=9 if we tell the brain this is the right answer for this question and truly believe it our brain will retrain to that answer of course we have already trained it to be 4. Well as with all evil drugs and Benzos our brain is bombarded by stimulus like 2+2=9 or the dog purrs you get the idea not logical at all being told that's correct. So with all the strange signals bouncing around our CNS it makes us susceptible to any thing we read think or even say that is negative it fuels our fear so what does it all mean . Just this what we fear such as...Oh no I hope I get some sleep today or she has a bad symptoms during her taper... I hope I don't get it just opens the door to get just what you fear, so retrain your brain to listen to you not the negativity you fear A GREAT MAN SAID THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF and its true. Centering the brain is so important its your brain take control, say you wake up want coffee but there isn't any so you have to go to the store to get some you get ready to go out the door and bam you get hit with severe fear oh no I can't do it I feel ill its your brain telling you you can't do it so you must tell your brain... Oh yes I can once you force yourself to go to the store ignoring the fear starts the process of retraining the brain to listen to you and not your fears the more you use this process the easier it gets because you are taking control of what you are thinking...therefore you are in control of the positive act of forcing yourself to do what you fear gives you the power to do even more and a chemical is released to help the process. Once you have done it a few times and have seen the positive results its a win win situation you are better by believing you are better, but you have done what you thought you couldn't do so you have proof it works making it that much easier to do it again ....hard yes at first but that's how you need to handled situations...
You can look at our symptoms as a problem or a sign that our brain and bodies are healing-it's a matter of prospective .Flood your brain with positive thoughts and you feel better b/c you are flooding it with a powerful positive chemical-it's that simple.
The word can't is not an option....You must not dwell on other peoples difficulties and symptoms you can and most likely will draw negative stimulus to yourself . Remember everyone is different so what one person may suffer another will not .So you need to retrain your brain take back control and regain your freedom . That is another reason you must stay positive thru any taper process and life.
God Bless
Pam

[iloerose]

Pam, thank you for posting this. It is sooo true. It ain't easy sometimes, but you're right you have to push through and retrain your brain. I knew before I jumped the vics I was going to be sick. I was terrified of losing the vics (oh my god what will I do now? What will I have with my coffee, how will I get out the door, it's sickening), I also was terrified of being sick, even though I knew it only would last a short time in comparison and that I didn't feel that good on the vics anyway! I still know that just because the w/d's have gone, I still have to watch what my brain is doing. Thank you for affirming this! I admire what you are doing, you are truly inspiring.

Peace Out

IloeRose

[bev49]

Wow, Pam, what a fascinating post. I actually had to sit here for a little while and think about it before posting back. What you say is so true. Fear and anticipation of what will (possibly) happen is a big part of why people don't get off drugs (myself included). An example is this: I once quit smoking for 7 years. I had never quit before. But it took me a really long time, months actually, to take the leap and stop smoking. Why? Because I had read and heard all the horror stories about how nicotine is more addictive then heroin, about how your receptors go crazy craving it, and also what will I do after a meal? with a cup of coffee? dsriving? I had never quit so had no actual personal knowledge but my fear was overwhelming me. Same thing now. I am on approx 1 mg. sub but have been on opiates so long that my fear is killing me. How will I deal with withdrawing? Is my brain permanently damaged? Etc. Add to that when people say it is sooo hard and horrifying. So we never give outself a chance to get healthy and straight because we're afraid to try because of other people's difficulties. It's the anticipation of what MIGHT happens that stops us. If only it were easy to retrain your brain.

[purpledog]

yep, sometimes in life it just pays to be an optimist.

and why not ay.

choice one guys.

[magsj]

Kudos to you Pam for an excellent post. You are absolutely right. I fall into the category of letting the fear of what "might" happen stop me from making progress. I have allowed myself to be scared based on other peoples difficulties. One thing that I feel bad about is that there have been times in the past when I have made some rather negative posts. I regret this because it could scare some people off. After all, what is reality for one person may not be reality for another. Plus, reality is a very hard thing to define because of our perception of what is real versus what our emotions perceive as real at the time; don't know if that made sense to you!

I am taking a "vow" to be more positive; to think more positive thoughts and LIVE my life without as much synicysm. I think it's a matter of actually re-training ones thought process.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such an insightful piece.

Big Hugs,

mags

[tired2]

Originally Posted by magsj

Kudos to you Pam for an excellent post. You are absolutely right. I fall into the category of letting the fear of what "might" happen stop me from making progress. I have allowed myself to be scared based on other peoples difficulties. One thing that I feel bad about is that there have been times in the past when I have made some rather negative posts. I regret this because it could scare some people off. After all, what is reality for one person may not be reality for another. Plus, reality is a very hard thing to define because of our perception of what is real versus what our emotions perceive as real at the time; don't know if that made sense to you!

I am taking a "vow" to be more positive; to think more positive thoughts and LIVE my life without as much synicysm. I think it's a matter of actually re-training ones thought process.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such an insightful piece.

Big Hugs,

mags

Hi Mags...Thanks I thought this would help which is why I wanted you to read this....yes I totally understand what you were saying.

So like I have told you I will be cheering for you ...you can get past this I believe you are stronger than you give yourself credit for.

Big Hugs back,Pam

[tired2]

Well just to update everyone I have been Opiate Free now since 6/14/09 for 13 weeks as of Sunday...so it can be done after using over 25yrs if you want it bad enough.
Pam

[intelmetal]

Pam, I always knew that you would be one of the success stories. You were aggressive and followed through with your goal of being opiate free. Good for you ! I hope that you will stay around and share your story with all the newbies, as you and I are living proof that sub therapy can work for hard core opiate addicts. You gave me hope when I needed it most, and I tried my hardest to follow your lead. You know what, it worked ! I finished about a month after you.
Almost 2 months clean !
Steve

[HenryNCBA]

Hello all,
I'm new here. Long story short is I am now on Suboxone for opiate W/D. My question is can Suboxone cause leg pitting leg edema? Has anyone heard of such a thing or come across it themselves? Everything else seems to have been medically ruled out. My prescrip is not much. I take 1mg tablet 3 times a day.
Thanks and everyone keep the faith!

[tired2]

Originally Posted by intelmetal

Pam, I always knew that you would be one of the success stories. You were aggressive and followed through with your goal of being opiate free. Good for you ! I hope that you will stay around and share your story with all the newbies, as you and I are living proof that sub therapy can work for hard core opiate addicts. You gave me hope when I needed it most, and I tried my hardest to follow your lead. You know what, it worked ! I finished about a month after you.
Almost 2 months clean !
Steve

Hi Steve,We were lucky to have found this forum ,Robert and Melinda without them I don't know where I would be today. Robert was the one that figured out I couldn't take Suboxone due to the Naloxone and got me on Subutex .

I'm glad I was able to give you hope when you needed it just as you gave me...It's nice to know that I was able to help you. Yes I was very determined just as you which is why we are FREE OF OPIATES today!!!
Pam

[tired2]

Well Sunday will be 14 weeks being Opiate Free after over 25 yrs of using pretty much every pain pill out there ...the sad part is they were all prescribed by a doctors for pain. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it b/c you can but only if you want it bad enough . I have not craved any opiates not once since I quite . I went though to much to get where I'm at and never want to see another pill again.
Subs should not be used long term that is not what they are for...I read so many post about people who would rather spend all their time chatting and spending all their time trying to make friends when they truly should deal with getting off the drugs they came here to do...that is the main purpose of this forum . There is nothing wrong with some support and making friends but you need to stay focused on your own recovery ...that should be everyone's number one priority . It saddens me to see so many people not dealing with getting off whatever they are addiction may be. I'm not saying this to hurt anyone just want to remind everyone why we all came to this forum in the first place.

[bev49]

Hi Pam, I give you tremendous kudos for your 14 weeks off opiates. Thats a great accomplishment. And I also give you credit for tackling the benzos which is an even harder thing to do. I don't understand who made the rule that subs can't be used for a longer time. I agree the best thing is to get on and off as quickly as possible. I advise everyone to do it that way if they can. Its hasnt been possible for me. I take 1/8 of a 2 mg. pill... I've been opiate addicted 44 years and I'm off methadone and down to the small crumbs I take. I consider that a major accomplishment even if others don't. The only rule I believe in is don't get high, try, and move in the right direction. I will get off sub, but in my own time and that doesn't make me wrong, for me. In the meantime, I see nothing wrong with making friends. I even thought we were. I feel good offering support. If I help someone, it helps my self esteem which will ultimately help me make the right choices. I'm as focused as a heart attack on my ultimate recovery and am really happy for you that you've come as far as you have. You should be proud of yourself.

[HenryNCBA]

Well it's been a week since my last doctor visit. I was very much concerned about edema that built up in both my legs. Doctor said it could be from the suboxone. I fell so depressed I sometimes thing I was better off on the percs as at least they made me feel good, gave me energy, and I wasn't depressed. Suboxone gives me some side effects I don't much care for such as not being able to sleep. When I do I wake up about once ever 1/2 hours. That and for some reason it tightens the muscles in the back of my neck so bad I can't turn my head. I get strange headaches and even stranger dreams if and when I get a chance to fall asleep. I am constantly tired with no pep or will to move on. I scared my wife the other day because I was sitting in the middle of the living room floor for the longest time and she asked what I wanted most in life right at that moment and I told her the truth and it was I just wanted to lie down and sleep and never wake up. She said "like in die"??? I said "that would be fine too. I don't care. I am just so tired of all this ********. Not just the W/D but all the other problems with family, and other situations, etc.... I feel like the only person that can do it and everyone keeps pestering me and I just want to be left along. I lost now 40 pounds since April and everyone tells me I look sickly (Ya think!!!) and that I need to do something about it but first take care of these problems. I tried upping the dosage of the Suboxone to see if that would help but it didn't and only made me feel worse. At least on the percs I didnt give a damn. For the rest of you folks out there hang in there and keep the faith. I'm got some serious thinking to do about checking out my options. Be well!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Well it's been a week since my last doctor visit. I was very much concerned about edema that built up in both my legs. Doctor said it could be from the suboxone. I fell so depressed I sometimes thing I was better off on the percs as at least they made me feel good, gave me energy, and I wasn't depressed. Suboxone gives me some side effects I don't much care for such as not being able to sleep. When I do I wake up about once ever 1/2 hours. That and for some reason it tightens the muscles in the back of my neck so bad I can't turn my head. I get strange headaches and even stranger dreams if and when I get a chance to fall asleep. I am constantly tired with no pep or will to move on. I scared my wife the other day because I was sitting in the middle of the living room floor for the longest time and she asked what I wanted most in life right at that moment and I told her the truth and it was I just wanted to lie down and sleep and never wake up. She said "like in die"??? I said "that would be fine too. I don't care. I am just so tired of all this ********. Not just the W/D but all the other problems with family, and other situations, etc.... I feel like the only person that can do it and everyone keeps pestering me and I just want to be left along. I lost now 40 pounds since April and everyone tells me I look sickly (Ya think!!!) and that I need to do something about it but first take care of these problems. I tried upping the dosage of the Suboxone to see if that would help but it didn't and only made me feel worse. At least on the percs I didnt give a damn. For the rest of you folks out there hang in there and keep the faith. I'm got some serious thinking to do about checking out my options. Be well!

Hey my friend! You are having classic symptoms of someone who doesn't do well with the naloxone in the suboxone. The side effects for someone like you are terrible.

Subutex is pure buprenorphine but suboxone has naloxone added to keep IV drug users from being able to inject it. I can't count the times I've been right on this one. Your symptoms couldn't be anymore "classic" than they are. I can almost promise you that if you switch to subutex and get off the suboxone you'll turn this around. I hardly EVER miss on picking up on this side effect. And keep the subutex dose LOW .... don't increase it. The fact that you got worse when you took extra just reinforces what I'm telling you.

You should ask Pam (tired2) who is on this forum and has months totally clean off the subs. She was going nuts on suboxone just like you and her life changed on the spot when she switched to subutex. I'm talking from experience, not from the advice of some drug salesperson the manufacturer sends around to sell drs. I know what I'm talking about on this one.

If your dr disagrees tell him you'll sign a waiver saying you're doing this against his suggestion so he has no liability. Tell him you'll change back if after two weeks there isn't an obvious change for the better in how you feel. Do whatever you have to do to get the dr to agree. I really believe that if you'll switch to subutex you'll see and feel the difference within 24 hours if not sooner. I'm almost positive about this one.

Most sub drs will say that I am totally crazy, but I know better. There are a ton of people on this forum I've advised to do the exact same thing and I've only missed on it a couple times TOTAL. Give it a shot and don't leave that dr's office without a subutex prescription. Let me know how it goes. You're in my prayers. Let me know how I can help in any way. God bless.

[tired2]

Originally Posted by bev49

Hi Pam, I give you tremendous kudos for your 14 weeks off opiates. Thats a great accomplishment. And I also give you credit for tackling the benzos which is an even harder thing to do. I don't understand who made the rule that subs can't be used for a longer time. I agree the best thing is to get on and off as quickly as possible. I advise everyone to do it that way if they can. Its hasnt been possible for me. I take 1/8 of a 2 mg. pill... I've been opiate addicted 44 years and I'm off methadone and down to the small crumbs I take. I consider that a major accomplishment even if others don't. The only rule I believe in is don't get igh, try, and move in the right direc
\tion. I will get off sub, but in my own time and that doesn't make me wrong, for me. In the meantime, I see nothing wrong with making friends. I even thought we were. I feel good offering support. If I help someone, it helps my se'
lf esteem which will ultimately help me make the right choices. I'm as focused as a heart attack on my ultimate recovery and am really happy for you that you've come as far as you have. You should be proud of yourself.

Bev.....You have accomplished a lot ...I never said anything about how you are handling your own taper...Those are your own choices that only you can make for yourself .I know you have used for a long time...I don't even count the years I actually started which has been a lot longer than 25yrs.

My e-mail was not directed to anyone personally ...sorry if you thought I was referring to you it was just a general statement . There is nothing wrong with talking and making friends . I was just stating how important it is for everyone to remain more focused during their recovery first . I believe in supporting people and I to have made friends on the forum but I had to put my recovery first.

I believe that is how I got though it the way I did.Trust me it was no walk in the park by no means...There are times we must step away for a day or two otherwise all you think about is whatever drug you are tapering...I call it clearing your head which is healthy for all of us.

There are some people that need that extra push to get past the fear of their
next taper or they will just get stuck and never experience the freedom of being free from opiate's....which is the reason we came here.That's all I was talking about . I have seen it happen.

You made a comment that I wasn't around to help...I was around but I just saw to much info going out and didn't want to start to confuse anyone . Intel was handling things different...along with so many others which is why I decided to stepped back...I'm always willing to help.



Remember my one post about fear back on 8/5 ???

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Hey my friend! You are having classic symptoms of someone who doesn't do well with the naloxone in the suboxone. The side effects for someone like you are terrible.

Subutex is pure buprenorphine but suboxone has naloxone added to keep IV drug users from being able to inject it. I can't count the times I've been right on this one. Your symptoms couldn't be anymore "classic" than they are. I can almost promise you that if you switch to subutex and get off the suboxone you'll turn this around. I hardly EVER miss on picking up on this side effect. And keep the subutex dose LOW .... don't increase it. The fact that you got worse when you took extra just reinforces what I'm telling you.

You should ask Pam (tired2) who is on this forum and has months totally clean off the subs. She was going nuts on suboxone just like you and her life changed on the spot when she switched to subutex. I'm talking from experience, not from the advice of some drug salesperson the manufacturer sends around to sell drs. I know what I'm talking about on this one.

If your dr disagrees tell him you'll sign a waiver saying you're doing this against his suggestion so he has no liability. Tell him you'll change back if after two weeks there isn't an obvious change for the better in how you feel. Do whatever you have to do to get the dr to agree. I really believe that if you'll switch to subutex you'll see and feel the difference within 24 hours if not sooner. I'm almost positive about this one.

Most sub drs will say that I am totally crazy, but I know better. There are a ton of people on this forum I've advised to do the exact same thing and I've only missed on it a couple times TOTAL. Give it a shot and don't leave that dr's office without a subutex prescription. Let me know how it goes. You're in my prayers. Let me know how I can help in any way. God bless.

Hello Robert,
I called my doctors office and they seemed to have no trouble to switch me over to Subutex. Called my pharmacy and they are out and should have it hopefully by tomorrow. Can't wait to try this and see if it helps. I can cold turkey it if I really want to but everyone around me keeps telling me not to as there are many meds out there to help with just this so why suffer if I don't have to. My problem is more mental than anything. I have a great understanding of how the human physiology works and that includles some of the mental aspects but strange isn't it that when it affects yourself you can not think straight. At current I don't know what the dossage will be but will find out soon enough. Just one question though that has me very perplexted. Have you heard of anyone developing edema in the legs from Suboxone or from the use of opiates such as percocets, vicodin, etc...? It seems all this time I was on it the edema was there and when I got onto the suboxone it got really bad to the point it felt like my legs were going to pop. This past week I didn't take any of my blood pressure meds because the suboxone also brought the pressures way too low and I only two 1 mg on Wednesday and 1 mg on Friday through a total of 7 days. The edema is all but cleared up. I'll let you know how the Subutex works out. Thanks for the support and info. Much appreciated!!!
Henry

[tired2]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Hey my friend! You are having classic symptoms of someone who doesn't do well with the naloxone in the suboxone. The side effects for someone like you are terrible.

Subutex is pure buprenorphine but suboxone has naloxone added to keep IV drug users from being able to inject it. I can't count the times I've been right on this one. Your symptoms couldn't be anymore "classic" than they are. I can almost promise you that if you switch to subutex and get off the suboxone you'll turn this around. I hardly EVER miss on picking up on this side effect. And keep the subutex dose LOW .... don't increase it. The fact that you got worse when you took extra just reinforces what I'm telling you.

You should ask Pam (tired2) who is on this forum and has months totally clean off the subs. She was going nuts on suboxone just like you and her life changed on the spot when she switched to subutex. I'm talking from experience, not from the advice of some drug salesperson the manufacturer sends around to sell drs. I know what I'm talking about on this one.

If your dr disagrees tell him you'll sign a waiver saying you're doing this against his suggestion so he has no liability. Tell him you'll change back if after two weeks there isn't an obvious change for the better in how you feel. Do whatever you have to do to get the dr to agree. I really believe that if you'll switch to subutex you'll see and feel the difference within 24 hours if not sooner. I'm almost positive about this one.

Most sub drs will say that I am totally crazy, but I know better. There are a ton of people on this forum I've advised to do the exact same thing and I've only missed on it a couple times TOTAL. Give it a shot and don't leave that dr's office without a subutex prescription. Let me know how it goes. You're in my prayers. Let me know how I can help in any way. God bless.

Hi Henry...this is Pam I know how you feel my doctor threw me on 16 mg of Suboxone and I felt horrible not to mention he never did a proper induction. I got lucky and found this forum and Robert shortly after starting . First thing we did was reduce the dose since 16mg is way to high but I still was sick . So I called the doctor and he wanted me to take more which I told him no way .Then Robert had me call the doctor to get Subutex but the doctor would only give me enough for a few days but I felt so much better. Well I called back still only got a few days worth .
I later insisted on seeing him and went in loaded with info on how Naloxone can make you sick and that I don't shoot up so why do I need another drug.. even dragged my husband but as it turned out he was willing to put me on Subutex .
I'm sure you will start to feel better after you switch...I actually ended up educating the doctor on about induction and the taper process .
Pam

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Hello Robert,
I called my doctors office and they seemed to have no trouble to switch me over to Subutex. Called my pharmacy and they are out and should have it hopefully by tomorrow. Can't wait to try this and see if it helps. I can cold turkey it if I really want to but everyone around me keeps telling me not to as there are many meds out there to help with just this so why suffer if I don't have to. My problem is more mental than anything. I have a great understanding of how the human physiology works and that includles some of the mental aspects but strange isn't it that when it affects yourself you can not think straight. At current I don't know what the dossage will be but will find out soon enough. Just one question though that has me very perplexted. Have you heard of anyone developing edema in the legs from Suboxone or from the use of opiates such as percocets, vicodin, etc...? It seems all this time I was on it the edema was there and when I got onto the suboxone it got really bad to the point it felt like my legs were going to pop. This past week I didn't take any of my blood pressure meds because the suboxone also brought the pressures way too low and I only two 1 mg on Wednesday and 1 mg on Friday through a total of 7 days. The edema is all but cleared up. I'll let you know how the Subutex works out. Thanks for the support and info. Much appreciated!!!
Henry

That's great news Henry and I'm glad Pam posted to you as well. We are all a little different from one another but there are lots of side effects you can have from naloxone. I've watched it over and again. It's impossible to say that ONE particular symptom was from the naloxone for everyone. But I will bet that you start feeling better immediately with the subutex.

Do me a favor so I don't have to read all of your old posts. Tell me exactly how much suboxone you've been taking each day, at what times during the day do you dose, and how long have you done this? Then when you get your subutex tomorrow hopefully I will be more than happy to help you put a plan together that works for you specifically. Pharmacies get deliveries daily so I can't imagine much of a delay in getting your meds.

Try and stay positive. I bet you'll be shocked how much this improves how you feel. We will get you going forward dosing properly on the correct amount and you'll be on your way to getting clean. Get back to me when you can. I'm happy for you. This was a good break for you that the dr is willing to go along with us. God bless.

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

That's great news Henry and I'm glad Pam posted to you as well. We are all a little different from one another but there are lots of side effects you can have from naloxone. I've watched it over and again. It's impossible to say that ONE particular symptom was from the naloxone for everyone. But I will bet that you start feeling better immediately with the subutex.

Do me a favor so I don't have to read all of your old posts. Tell me exactly how much suboxone you've been taking each day, at what times during the day do you dose, and how long have you done this? Then when you get your subutex tomorrow hopefully I will be more than happy to help you put a plan together that works for you specifically. Pharmacies get deliveries daily so I can't imagine much of a delay in getting your meds.

Try and stay positive. I bet you'll be shocked how much this improves how you feel. We will get you going forward dosing properly on the correct amount and you'll be on your way to getting clean. Get back to me when you can. I'm happy for you. This was a good break for you that the dr is willing to go along with us. God bless.

Hello Robert, Hello Pam,
Thank you both for your concern. A quick history of myself so you don't have to back track. I've been on either Vics or Perc for about 4 to 5 years on a daily basis. Never as much as some I have read about and I only had the prescription 5/325 for the most part of which I would take up to a max of 4 a day. 6 on a rare day so you can see I really wasn't abusing so to speak. For me I think it was the continious time involved for before seeing my doctor that over a weekend I didn't take any opiates and by Monday I felt like a truck ran over me. Sore muscles, bone pain, runny nose, felt like ********. So that evening when I got home I popped a perc and by Tuesday morning I felt better. The following weekend same think. Exhausted from work I slept all day Satuday and Sunday. I also suffer from depression to complicate matters. Again by Monday I felt terrible. During work it snapped in my mind something said withdrawal so I went to see my doc who sent me to an addiction specialist. The Suboxone he initially started me on was a very low dose of 2 mg tablets 4 times a day. That didn't do anything so we experiemented around and the dosage when up to 6 mg 4 times a day and all the was back to this previous week of only 1 mg tablet on Wednesday and 1 mg tablet on Friday. Haven't touched the stuff since. I have also stopped taking Atenolol for blood pressure (50mg tablet) as that combined with the Suboxone was dropping my pressure to about 92/54 and every time I stood up or turned my head I would feel like passing out. That and my pulse slowed to 42 BPM. Granted now since April I have been trying to get my act together and have since dropped over 30 pounds by walking and running and watching what I eat so my doc said the blood pressure med that was good for you when you where 30 plus pounds heavier is too much for you now so we are going to cut back on it. Also Suboxone apparently also can lower blood pressure. The side effects I seem to be getting from the Suboxone, mind you now this is speculations, is inability to sleep. I wake up about once very 1/2 hours and usually not in a very good mood. Depressed and worried usually. I got stiffness in the back of my neck so bad I couldn't turn my head. A strange sort of headache as well. That and of course the pitting edema on both lower legs which is a real pain. I have had a complete cardiac work up and the edema is not caused by anything cardiac, liver, kidney, protein related so the doctors are saying it is from the suboxone and it kind of stands to reason as this past week I only took just 2 mg total 1 on Wednesday and 1 on Friday and the edema has all but dissappeared. My blood pressure has raised itself nicely too to around 104/76. Now to just get over the sweating, shaking, feeling like throwing up, sore muscles and bone pain, depression, cravings, lack of energy and lack of sleep, etc...

[Robert_325]

Henry ... I know what I'm talking about here and a dr who would give you 6mg four times a day has NO freakin idea what he's doing dispensing subs. There is NO reason to take any doses more than twice a day, some even do it on one dose. We'll get you fixed up here I guarantee you. The fact that you haven't had ANY since Friday is wonderful news. Don't take anymore until you get the subutex. Then let me re-induct you properly.

I will have you feeling better than you've felt since high school on such a minimal dose you won't believe it if you let me do an induction over again for you. If you will trust me and go along with me on this induction I swear we'll turn you COMPLETELY AROUND. I mean that with all sincerity.

You are in w/d right now. It's very obvious. Listen to me brother and I'll fix you. You get the subutex, let me do the induction right here on the forum with you and you'll be feeling great. I can't even count the number of times I've re-inducted people who got off to the wrong start. Just keep me posted what's going on. Don't take anything except the Atenolol. You need the blood pressure medication but that is it. Tough it out until you get the subutex and I'll have you feeling wonderful within 2-3 hours. God bless.

[tired2]

Hi Henry...I had the same problem with my drug store not having the Subutex so I sent my husband to another drug store . I was to miserable to wait...you are definitely having w/d symptoms...I felt the same way . I'm glad you doctor will switch your meds ...
I see they had you dosing 4x a day on Subs did I read that correctly??Also are you saying 6mg 4x a day that would be 24 mg way to much or just 6 mg total 4x a day . Either way no wonder you are having so many problems. Robert is great doing inductions which is important . Then he only has you take 2 doses per day once you are stable.
I noticed you do not have your own thread yet...I can help you with that.
Pam

[HenryNCBA]

Originally Posted by tired2

Hi Henry...I had the same problem with my drug store not having the Subutex so I sent my husband to another drug store . I was to miserable to wait...you are definitely having w/d symptoms...I felt the same way . I'm glad you doctor will switch your meds ...
I see they had you dosing 4x a day on Subs did I read that correctly??Also are you saying 6mg 4x a day that would be 24 mg way to much or just 6 mg total 4x a day . Either way no wonder you are having so many problems. Robert is great doing inductions which is important . Then he only has you take 2 doses per day once you are stable.
I noticed you do not have your own thread yet...I can help you with that.
Pam

Hello Pam,
Sorry about the thread and such. I am new to groups like this and am still learing much about connecting with others over the internet. Even though I sit in front of two monitors all day long I don't have much time for anything else. To answer your question my dr originally prescribed for me to take 1 x 2mg tablet up to 4 times a day which is 8mg. He said I probably don't need that much as the percs and vics I was on was so low but it was the duration that did it to me. So we played around with the dosage trying to find that sweet spot. I went as high as 24 mg total divided 4 ways as I always take first thing in the morning, around noon, when I get home, and before bed. Taking more made me feel like ******** and I almost and I do mean almost went back to the percs. I had the percs in my hand and the only thing that stopped me from taking them was the thought of I went a couple weeks without them I can't give up now otherwise it was all for nothing so I put them away. We reduced the dosage down to 1/2 a tablet (2mg tablet in half is 1mg) once in the moring, once mid day, once in the evening. What I couldn't stand was the edema in my legs, the joint and bone pain, also the constant sweating rushes with no warning. That and I had this nagging tightness pain in the back of my neck and I couldn't turn my head. Also I had the strangest feeling headache. Can describe it. So last week I pretty much stayed home from work all week due to depression mostly from the edema and W/D and took one 2 mg tablet last Wednesday and on Friday just 1/2 a tablet. I haven't had any since. I do have sleeping meds like Ambien CR which I take now to help me sleep but I NEVER mix these sorts of meds. I know better than that. At times when I get anxious I used to take a Ativan but if I am on Suboxone I won't take the Ativan and vice versa. I just checked online and I see my pharmacy ordered the Subutex so I can probably pick it up tomorrow. I hope this works out for me.
To answer Robert's comments and questions the answer is yes I will follow your program. I have a small background in medicine but one thing that medical professionals do is play it by the book. Most have never gone through any real situations so they speak from what they were shown or told. Experience is the best teacher. Besides reading all these threads all these happier folks can't be all wrong right? I just want to get off this ******** period. I will cold turkey it if I have to. I actually started to do that a while ago but people kept telling me not to as there are meds that can help with it so why suffer if I don't have to.
Appreciate all your support.
I'll let you know when I pickup my Subutex!

[tired2]

Originally Posted by HenryNCBA

Hello Pam,
Sorry about the thread and such. I am new to groups like this and am still learing much about connecting with others over the internet. Even though I sit in front of two monitors all day long I don't have much time for anything else. To answer your question my dr originally prescribed for me to take 1 x 2mg tablet up to 4 times a day which is 8mg. He said I probably don't need that much as the percs and vics I was on was so low but it was the duration that did it to me. So we played around with the dosage trying to find that sweet spot. I went as high as 24 mg total divided 4 ways as I always take first thing in the morning, around noon, when I get home, and before bed. Taking more made me feel like ******** and I almost and I do mean almost went back to the percs. I had the percs in my hand and the only thing that stopped me from taking them was the thought of I went a couple weeks without them I can't give up now otherwise it was all for nothing so I put them away. We reduced the dosage down to 1/2 a tablet (2mg tablet in half is 1mg) once in the moring, once mid day, once in the evening. What I couldn't stand was the edema in my legs, the joint and bone pain, also the constant sweating rushes with no warning. That and I had this nagging tightness pain in the back of my neck and I couldn't turn my head. Also I had the strangest feeling headache. Can describe it. So last week I pretty much stayed home from work all week due to depression mostly from the edema and W/D and took one 2 mg tablet last Wednesday and on Friday just 1/2 a tablet. I haven't had any since. I do have sleeping meds like Ambien CR which I take now to help me sleep but I NEVER mix these sorts of meds. I know better than that. At times when I get anxious I used to take a Ativan but if I am on Suboxone I won't take the Ativan and vice versa. I just checked online and I see my pharmacy ordered the Subutex so I can probably pick it up tomorrow. I hope this works out for me.
To answer Robert's comments and questions the answer is yes I will follow your program. I have a small background in medicine but one thing that medical professionals do is play it by the book. Most have never gone through any real situations so they speak from what they were shown or told. Experience is the best teacher. Besides reading all these threads all these happier folks can't be all wrong right? I just want to get off this ******** period. I will cold turkey it if I have to. I actually started to do that a while ago but people kept telling me not to as there are meds that can help with it so why suffer if I don't have to.
Appreciate all your support.
I'll let you know when I pickup my Subutex!

Henry know problem with the thread...just want to get you feeling better. I must agree with Robert that doctor has no FREAKIN idea what he is doing....mine tried to up my dose that high at one point just never had me doing it 4x a day.
How long have you been on Ativan and what dose were you taking the reason I'm asking is that it is a benzo and it's not recommended to c/t off any benzo .
I was on Klonopin while tapering from my sub's and have currently switched over to Diazepam which I have been tapering off with Robert
You sound as determined as I was...I have been opiate free 14 weeks and have no desire to use...
Well get those subs and Robert will get you stable.
Take Care,
Pam

[bev49]

Pam, thank you so much for the post clarifying things to me. I admit my feelings got hurt because I thought you were directing the other post my way. A little paranoia, maybe? . I am gonna start a new thread because I just want to express certain feelings I have when I get my thoughts together on it about my feelings on success. Anyway, I'm glad you're posting again. You helped me alot when I needed it. If not for you, I'd still have no idea how to break these stupid pills down and wouldn't have been able to get as low as I have. When I am busy, I just break them into tiny tieeny pieces but of course, then they arent accurate. I just tell myself with the long halflife it will catch up. A little less one day, a little more the next, and its been working ok for me. But more often than not, I have my piece of glass and my lines. Thanks to you for that. Hope the benzo taper is not kicking your butt too much. If you were strong enough to do the one, you will do the other too, even thought it might be harder. I have faith, Pam.

[bev49]

Henry, let me just back up what Robert and Pam say about the doctor. He sounds like one of the many true morons when it comes to treating with this. Four times a day with something that stays in your system so long makes no sense. 24 mgs. makes no sense. I have to tell you this. I had some of the symptoms you describe. No sleep, jittery, nervous. It was the high dose. It wasn't til I got down to maybe 6 or 4 that I started feeling great. I wish I knew what the edema was all about. I don't