Sub ? for Robert

SimonGF · #1 02-14-2009, 02:15 PM

Hi Robert,
I think I'm supposed to decrease below 4mg today. As much as I want to get off of this stuff I'm very concerned about cravings that have returned. My family is out of town and I have been working long exhausting days. I realize that I should have other safe guards in place such as meetings, affirmations....etc. I am going to meetings, but I don't want to tempt myself.

What do you think?

Robert_325 · #2 02-14-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Hi Robert,
I think I'm supposed to decrease below 4mg today. As much as I want to get off of this stuff I'm very concerned about cravings that have returned. My family is out of town and I have been working long exhausting days. I realize that I should have other safe guards in place such as meetings, affirmations....etc. I am going to meetings, but I don't want to tempt myself.

What do you think?

Hey Simon ... first of all it's not a weakness at all to admit your fears. I don't want you to relapse or have problems as things have finally started getting better for you. Remember when I say to reduce it's always with the stipulation that your symptoms merit that reduction. Stay where you are through the weekend. Let's talk about this again on Sunday evening. We'll make a gameplan for the first of the week when you're back at work and have things in place that will distract you from the anxiety causing events. You're doing just fine. Main thing is you aren't going backwards. And I can only help you when you are totally straight with me like you're being now. God bless.

SimonGF · #3 02-14-2009, 07:47 PM

Thanks,
Sounds good. I will post Monday night.

SimonGF · #4 02-18-2009, 10:02 PM

Robert,
I'm still here. I'm posting a little late. I was wondering if staying at the present dose of 4mg is going to adversely effect the plans to taper. I was thinking maybe through this coming weekend. Also the "doctor" wanted me to try Prozac for some of my underlying issues, so I want to see how that goes. I started today at 10 mg per day. I had some initial nausea.

Simon

Robert_325 · #5 02-18-2009, 10:16 PM

Simon .... there will be little to no difference in how you react to 10mg vs 8mg. You really should reduce. You're past the worst of the initial opiate detox by now. The longer you remain at a higher dose the more difficult this will be. You don't react well to the naloxone anyway. You should reduce. God bless.

Robert_325 · #6 02-18-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icandoitin08

If you are not confident yet then don't start thinking about the taper. It is o.k. to give yourself a chance to catch your breath. Maybe you wont need the Prozak.

Cheryl ... Simon has been at this dose for long enough, maybe even too long. I've been working with him since day one. God bless.

SimonGF · #7 02-18-2009, 10:26 PM

Robert,
Hello - it's me the better half.

Clarification, Simon has been at 4mg of the Suboxone. 2mg am and 2mg pm. He has just added 10mg Prozac starting today.

Do you still think he should reduce? The cravings came back when he reduced from 6mg down to 4mgs but he has held steady at the 4mg. He has been taking the 4 mg for a total of 7days.

Thanks for your input.

Robert_325 · #8 02-18-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Robert,
Hello - it's me the better half.

Clarification, Simon has been at 4mg of the Suboxone. 2mg am and 2mg pm. He has just added 10mg Prozac starting today.

Do you still think he should reduce? The cravings came back when he reduced from 6mg down to 4mgs but he has held steady at the 4mg. He has been taking the 4 mg for a total of 7days.

Thanks for your input.

Sorry. Guess I haven't talked to Simon enough the last few days.

I get strung out a little talking with SOOO many people on this forum. It makes it even harder to keep up with each person's dose when they change threads. Those are my notes that I refer to and I don't have anything here on this new thread. You can understand I'm sure how much simpler it is when all communication is on one thread.

I know part of his problem is still the naloxone. He would be better off getting off the suboxone as soon as he can within reason. I know that was the plan when we talked about this originally. You both wanted to end this as quickly as possible. He is beyond the effects of the opiate detox by now. Any symptoms he is having are not from the opiate detox, they are from the naloxone.

I would say to drop to 3mg. He can always take a .5mg sliver if he has any problems. If he wants to remain at 4mg that is his call. But I don't think it's the thing to do personally. It's been a month since he began this process. God bless.

SimonGF · #9 02-19-2009, 12:09 AM

Totally understandable!

So do you think cutting down from 4mg to 3mg will increase the opiate cravings. I don't think he is so concerned about withdrawal symptoms as the oncoming crash of cravings. Part of his concern is that I have been and will continue to be traveling frequently this month thru this coming weekend and then I will be more or less back to my normal out of town 4- 6 days a month. We would like to make sure the cravings stay more or less to a minimum while I am gone. His toes have finally, more or less healed and he has run twice this past week - This will help him if he can stay with it. He has always been in great shape till this past year.

I hope that the Prozac will be a good thing for him as well (the prozac is to replace the ridalin) - we have resisted anti-depressants and such for 19 years - but ends up he just self-medicated with the opiates. He has always been highly irritable and hyper-focused, perfectionist etc... This is not just the Naloxone. It was that the suboxone seemed to be exacerbating this tendency.

Thanks.

Robert_325 · #10 02-19-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Totally understandable!

So do you think cutting down from 4mg to 3mg will increase the opiate cravings. I don't think he is so concerned about withdrawal symptoms as the oncoming crash of cravings. Part of his concern is that I have been and will continue to be traveling frequently this month thru this coming weekend and then I will be more or less back to my normal out of town 4- 6 days a month. We would like to make sure the cravings stay more or less to a minimum while I am gone. His toes have finally, more or less healed and he has run twice this past week - This will help him if he can stay with it. He has always been in great shape till this past year.

I hope that the Prozac will be a good thing for him as well (the prozac is to replace the ridalin) - we have resisted anti-depressants and such for 19 years - but ends up he just self-medicated with the opiates. He has always been highly irritable and hyper-focused, perfectionist etc... This is not just the Naloxone. It was that the suboxone seemed to be exacerbating this tendency.

Thanks.

If you being gone adds extra stress to Simon then have him stay at 4mg until you return. To be totally honest there is such a little difference in 4mg vs 3mg that I really don't think it would make that much difference as far as any cravings go. It's not that big of a deal.

I want to repeat that he's been doing this for a month now and his opiate w/d is over. Things like cravings are the main reason we recommend participating in recovery, church, something to get a person out of themself. He needs to stop thinking about the cravings and they will improve. This is not easy, but I promise I'm right.

I know he had the toe injury and if he was running more that would probably help some. But there is NO real reason why he should be having any problems with this except for a mental dependency. I mean with all due respect and sincerity.

If it's making him apprehensive then it will affect him in the manner that he expects. That is human nature. Just have him stay at 4mg until he feels ready to make a drop. God bless.

lilly555 · #11 02-28-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Robert,
I'm still here. I'm posting a little late. I was wondering if staying at the present dose of 4mg is going to adversely effect the plans to taper. I was thinking maybe through this coming weekend. Also the "doctor" wanted me to try Prozac for some of my underlying issues, so I want to see how that goes. I started today at 10 mg per day. I had some initial nausea.

Simon

Hi Simon and his better half.....i've been wondering how you are doing....haven't seen you post lately, so i thought i'd let you know you've been in my thoughts....we've had a similar path in all of this....i use to be on anti-depressants on and off for years and they actually helped me quite a bit, and most of my family members are as well and have had major improvements... however, when my opiate intake increased to such a high degree, i stopped taking them, due to all the masking i was getting w/ the opiates....down the road i may consider going back on them, once i get a better handle on my recovery and am cleaner to make the best choice for me....
i switched from the Suboxone to Subutex a week or so ago and that horrible speedy feeling went away...can't even begin to tell you the major improvement for me....and i have been reduced to 6mgs for 6 days now, w/ i'm assuming, the next drop to be 4mg in a few days...hence, why i have followed your story so closely....so if you get a moment, i would love to hear how you've been doing at the 4mg and the symptoms your experiencing....even tho' we are all different w/ all of this, i still find all of this very informative and supportive for keeping me focused and on track.....really hope you are doing o.k., i know you've had some difficulties like me and i am really rooting for you simon!!
peace, lilly
Day 29 clean for me.....

Robert_325 · #12 03-01-2009, 09:07 AM

Simon ... how goes it buddy???

SimonGF · #13 03-03-2009, 03:35 PM

Robert,
I was waiting to see how the Prozac was going to work into the way I feel. I'm still at 3 mg. of Sub a day. I'm pretty sure the Prozac is working now that it has been almost 2 weeks. I can function and work and do some excersize if I force myself.

I'm having a heck of a time getting up in the morning, though. It's as if sleeping doesn't cure being tired. I suspect that 3 mg. is still a heavy dose of Sub.- Temgesic is .2 mg. Is that correct, as far as the buprenorphine is concerned? So it's time for me to resume getting OFF of this stuff! I admit I've been hesitant on account of craving; but I feel good to be where I'm at and still feel strong.

I heard something about a marriage. Congratulations.

Simon

melinda7.5 · #14 03-03-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Robert,
I was waiting to see how the Prozac was going to work into the way I feel. I'm still at 3 mg. of Sub a day. I'm pretty sure the Prozac is working now that it has been almost 2 weeks. I can function and work and do some excersize if I force myself.

I'm having a heck of a time getting up in the morning, though. It's as if sleeping doesn't cure being tired. I suspect that 3 mg. is still a heavy dose of Sub.- Temgesic is .2 mg. Is that correct, as far as the buprenorphine is concerned? So it's time for me to resume getting OFF of this stuff! I admit I've been hesitant on account of craving; but I feel good to be where I'm at and still feel strong.

I heard something about a marriage. Congratulations.

Simon

Hi Simon
Robert is not able to get on line till Thursday comcast is out in his area...
Musicman can answer your ? or I can read this to him tonight when I talk to him and them I will post back to you...
So let me know what you want me to ask him...
Talk to you later, Melinda

SimonGF · #15 03-03-2009, 03:56 PM

Hi Lilly,
Thanks for thinking about me. So, the Subutex made a difference? Robert thought, and I felt all along that naloxone is an issue. The doctor that I'm using thinks that the naloxone is "irrelevant". So I'll get nowhere with him and I'm not up for switching docs' at this point in the game. I still don't feel right , but I'm afraid of feeling worse while coming off this stuff. I can't miss any work and may be taking on another job as well. So I guess I'm really going to have to trust Robert and all????
Sounds like you're doing well. Hang in there...
I promise to stay in touch,
Simon

SimonGF · #16 03-03-2009, 04:02 PM

Yes, good point.
I want to know when I should decrease to 2mg. I've been at 3mg. for a week. Will this effect the overall plan? And are these still substantial doses of buprenorphine?

Thanks

melinda7.5 · #17 03-03-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Yes, good point.
I want to know when I should decrease to 2mg. I've been at 3mg. for a week. Will this effect the overall plan? And are these still substantial doses of buprenorphine?

Thanks

Hi Simon
I will ask him tonight and post back to you...
Talk to you later
Melinda

musicman48 · #18 03-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

Yes, good point.
I want to know when I should decrease to 2mg. I've been at 3mg. for a week. Will this effect the overall plan? And are these still substantial doses of buprenorphine?

Thanks

Since Melinda will be talking to Robert this evening she will answer your taperning question.However I will tell you that 2mg is a substantial dose.It may not appear to be because of its size but never the less it is a strong dose.MM

melinda7.5 · #19 03-03-2009, 11:24 PM

Hi Simon
Sorry I hope it's not to late there...
I talked to Robert and he said he would like to see you drop to 2 1/2 mg ...
to make it a little easer...
OK...I will talk to you all later...
Melinda

SimonGF · #20 03-11-2009, 08:39 PM

Hi Robert,
I'm going down to 2mg. today or tomorrow? I've been on 2.5 mg. Also, why do we take Sub. twice daily? Cutting .5 mg. isn't an exact science is it? Very tricky.

Simon

Robert_325 · #21 03-11-2009, 11:49 PM

No it's not exact. And as you start progressing from this point the relevance of the two doses will be more clear as you get closer to the end. It makes the tapering easier at very low doses. God bless.

SimonGF · #22 04-02-2009, 06:31 PM

Hi Robert,
Remember me? I'm still onboard, but as you've probably noticed I'm not a big computer user so posting is a big deal. My typing is terrible!
I'm about to decrease to 1mg. per day. Can you give me a general idea of how the decreasing continues. The pieces are getting very small. If you could kind of outline the remainder of the program, I can also gauge how much more Suboxone I'll need. I have 16 more 8mg. tablets. I really don't want to see the doctor who prescribed them ever again.
I really appreciate everthing you do. Thankyou.

Simon

Robert_325 · #23 04-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Simon ... after four days at 1mg if you do well just drop to .75mg, then four days again and down to .5mg. After four days there with no problems you'll start skipping days. At that point we need to talk again daily. There is no way that you will need any additional medication if you follow the instructions. You'd have to blow it pretty badly to take all that medication with what you have left to do. Take care and God bless.

SimonGF · #24 04-23-2009, 08:07 PM

How are things? I think I have been taking .25 2x's a day. I can't cut them any smaller. I guess it is time to start skipping doses. How do I proceed. I am sure glad that you are still here to help. Thanks

Robert_325 · #25 04-23-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

How are things? I think I have been taking .25 2x's a day. I can't cut them any smaller. I guess it is time to start skipping doses. How do I proceed. I am sure glad that you are still here to help. Thanks

I'm glad that YOU are still here.

Haven't heard from you in a little while, I was hoping you'd be back.

Are you feeling good at .5mg per day?

It's okay to start skipping days if you feel good. If you're having difficult days still I would go to one .25mg dose per day for four days first.

I'm going to leave this decision up to you Simon. Only you know how you're feeling. If you feel okay with skipping do it. You can always take a sliver if you have to.

You would skip one day, then take .5mg. Skip two days and take .5mg. Skip three days and take .5mg. Skip four days with no problems and you're done. Totally clean off everything! I would go for it if I was feeling okay. Let me know. God bless.

musicman48 · #26 04-24-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

How are things? I think I have been taking .25 2x's a day. I can't cut them any smaller. I guess it is time to start skipping doses. How do I proceed. I am sure glad that you are still here to help. Thanks

Simon...You have come a very long way.Good job !

brndout · #27 04-24-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonGF

How are things? I think I have been taking .25 2x's a day. I can't cut them any smaller. I guess it is time to start skipping doses. How do I proceed. I am sure glad that you are still here to help. Thanks

Hi Simon I just finished using Robert's taper. I did go to .25 but thats just me- you've got it either way - hang in there you are almost done ! Linda


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