[13ghosts]

After a year on norco and ms-contin, I am biting the bullet and going on Subutex with the plan of tapering slowly of it. I have gone through this before, about five years ago, when I got off of 150 mg a day of methadone through buprenorphine. It worked, but the problem was that I got off the bup too fast and went through the worst withdrawal of my life. Not this time.

Currently I am taking two 100 mg ms-contin a day, and at least 4 norco, but it has gotten to the point where I blowing through the norco prescription in half the time I should. I don't do that with the ms-contin, nor do I doctor shop like I used to. And while I do have severe pain in my knees, I really don't want to be on this stuff because obviously I can't handle it--especially the norco. I am now taking it as much to maintain and feel great as I am for pain. I assume there will be more pain when I am on the subutex, but I will learn to deal with it or find something that is non-narcotic.

Speaking of which, I got on this rollercoaster ride again about three years ago when my doctor gave me tramadol and assured me it was neither narcotic nor addicting. HA! Pretty soon I was hooked, and when I looked it up I was appalled to find it was in fact just as bad as vicodin. And it was not working as well as it did in the beginning. So my addict brain said "As long as you are hooked on painkillers, why not enjoy yourself and go for the gold?" So first it was the Norco, and then the MS-Contin in increasing dosages. And all the while, I ignored the screaming voice in the back of my head saying NO!

I wish I could just cold turkey this and not go on subutex, but I cannot afford the time nor the money for rehab, as I am an executive in a large company. I also have other deals happening in my life that I will "blow" if I suddenly go MIA for a month, or disappear in full withdrawal. I have been on bup before and it is truly a miracle drug. Combined with 1-on-1 counseling and subutex support groups, I think this is the best plan. It has been years since I went to a meeting, but from what I can tell in various forums, NA and AA have problems with folks on stuff like subutex. Ironically, I was in a 12 step group for a number of years who accepted me on methadone. I never took chips or cakes, but at least I could share and was part of the group. And there were those who fought vehemently for me to be able to take chips, though I saw the point of those who opposed it. When I came out of rehab on subutex, I was handed a chip and applauded by my peers. In their eyes, I was not sober on methadone, but sober on subutex. I don't know if that would be the case now, but I would rather avoid groups where I am going to be treated like a second class citizen. My last group never did that, but nor do I want to a divisive element among them yet again. That said, I took many good things from the program and it changed my life for the better, so I will return to that group and feel them out.

I am planning to stop using next Thursday and hope to be in moderate withdrawal by Friday or Saturday. I will run out of norco a few days before that, and will use the ms-contin to maintain while I get through some important meetings and interviews during the week. Is there anyone out there who can tell me what they went through and how long it will take for me to be in enough withdrawal to start the subutex? The doc says no more than 48 hours, but I want some input from those who have been through it, since it took almost ten days of quitting methadone cold turkey for me to finally go into withdrawal.

I plan on giving myself the weekend and then returning to work Monday, having hopefully stabilized on the subutex. Hopefully. Currently I take 1 xanax or ativan a day, and have been for about five months. My doctor is advising me to continue with that, though I think I may have to up it a bit to have an effect. I am also taking Wellbutrin 300 XL. Truth is, I wish I wasn't taking the benzos so they would have more of an effect, but it is what it is.

I am excited to be getting off these painkillers again, scared to death of what may go wrong, and ashamed--so utterly ashamed--that I could to this place again when I had kicked it five years ago. I was in the clear, out of the woods, and off everything until tramadol came along.

I have not posted much here, but I have read a great deal of these threads and am familiar with many of the names of the wonderful folks who make an incredible difference in the lives of others.

I am here to learn from you, to share my experiences, and to get better. I look forward to soaking up a lot of wisdom and support, and offering what I can in turn. The first time I got sober I was on a board like this, but that was a decade ago, when the web was still relatively nascent, and boards like this were few and far between. Now there are so many forums out there, so many addicts looking for help, and so many more kind people willing to offer it. That last board made a huge difference in my life in that I found kindred spirits and like-minded souls who made me realize I was not alone. And they were always there for me. Always.

So....here we go. And thank you so much for reading this post.

[noda0508]

Hi. My name is Somer. I hate to inform you that I am not experienced in the answer you are looking for, but you are experienced in the answer that I have been looking for. I am currently on Methadone, on 100 mg, and have been on Methadone for almost two and a half years now. I have tried detox by weaning down, but I am a single mother of two YOUNG children and can NOT take care of them experiencing the harsh withdrawal that that caused. I have been reading about Suboxone, Subutex, and have found a doctor near by who prescribes it. My question is, is it possible to detox from Methadone using a sub and still be able to take care of my children? What are the withdrawals like? If you would be so kind as to give me any advise and answer my questions, I would greatly appreciate it! I am sorry that I do not know the answer to your questions but I do wish you the best of luck! Thank you in advance, so much!

[htoth19]

NoDa....Robert325 has posted something on the forum- a sub plan that a lot of people have used. Doesn't work for everybody but it works for most. Its worth checking it out. It could be on anyones thread, so maybe if someone sees this they can post it here for you...
I'm pretty sure you have to ween down to like 30 or 40 mgs to be able to make the switch to subs, IF I remember correctly....
I could be wrong. But look around for that link.

[htoth19]

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html



There it is. I found it for ya.

[noda0508]

Hi. Thank you for the help. I tried to click on that link and it said the page could not be found. Just wanted to let you know for future reference. I will look for it elsewhere. Thanks, again!

[htoth19]

Thats weird.....I got it from tired2's thread, first page. I cut and pasted it. Maybe thats why

[13ghosts]

Originally Posted by noda0508

My question is, is it possible to detox from Methadone using a sub and still be able to take care of my children? What are the withdrawals like? If you would be so kind as to give me any advise and answer my questions, I would greatly appreciate it! I am sorry that I do not know the answer to your questions but I do wish you the best of luck! Thank you in advance, so much!

Well, the first thing I have to say--and this should come as no surprise to all you opiate freaks out there--but drugs play havoc with the memory. Now that I think about it, I did go down to a lower dose before stopping, but it was nowhere near the recommended levels. The number 70 comes to mind.And I was dropping by 10 to 20 mgs at a time since a window opened up for me to check into a rehab for free. Also, I was extremely overweight and the methadone was storing up in my fat, so....it was not going to be pretty.

What was odd was the amount of time it took for me to go into withdrawal, and how well I did without methadone for over a week. I mean, I wasn't skipping and prancing, but I could function, go to meetings, do the work--even yoga. I was surprised. Once I got on the subutex, the switch was almost immediate--and the subutex did not have any kind of "high" to it, unlike the the methadone did , as much as I wanted to deny it.

I spent about two months on the subutex, weaning down rather quickly, and during that time I went on job interviews, took on freelance work, and took care of my daughter. The only problem came was when I decided to stop taking it (with my doctor's blessing) and then had terrible withdrawals that lasted two weeks. I was possessed with the zeal of the newly-sober and wanted to be off of EVERYTHING after so many years of being an addict. A noble goal, but foolish to have attemped so quickly.

So yes, I think you can do this and will be fine, especially if you can see your doctor regularly. Since I have been through it before, my doc gave me the subutex Rx and left it to me to decide when I was going to quit.

Again, I do not want to rush this, but I am heading into a very hectic time for me professionally, and my windows of opportunity are small. Through the end of the year I have important meetings, presentations, auditions, and film shoots. I cannot cancel these nor say, "Excuse me for a moment, but I am having withdrawals and need a diarrhea break." That won't work. So my worry is that I will have a similar experience as last time and the withdrawal takes too long to come on. I would hate to stop this Thursday and not have moderate withdrawal symptoms until, say, Tuesday, when I have a full day's worth of meetings. That absolutely mortifies me, as does the possibility that the subutex is not enough or that it takes longer to stabilize this time around, and I am a wreck at these meetings.

But I have gotten myself into this through my own doing, and now I need to face the music and take the first good opportunity to get off this stuff. And if I am wrong...I will have to deal with it. And take my lumps. This is nobody's fault by my own, and there has to be some kind of suffering somewhere. I never expected to get out of this unscathed, but I am doing my best to keep the wear and tear to a minimum.

Make an appointment to see that doctor and see what he thinks. You will need counseling, a support group, or even just this board to help you as well, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised and relieved to know there is a way out of methadone. I know it worked for me.

Best of luck and please keep in touch.

[13ghosts]

Originally Posted by htoth19

Thats weird.....I got it from tired2's thread, first page. I cut and pasted it. Maybe thats why

PS, I also got an error message when I tried to open that link.

[newyorkgal]

Sub will definitely work for you but you have to come down to at least 30 mgs. of methadone first. Just do it slowly and it shouldn't be a problem. You can drop by 10 mgs. every few weeks til 40 mg. then start dropping by 5 mg. If you feel badly at any dose, slow it down. Once you hit 30 mgs. or even lower, you're good to go with the sub. You will definitely be able to take care of your kids on sub. It pretty much takes away most feelings of withdrawal. And if you taper subs properly, withdrawal should be minimal. But first things first, you need to get down to 30 mgs. of methadone

[newyorkgal]

Go to featured drugs, the second sticky is called subutex/suboxone therapy or something close to that. Thats the link she's referring to I believe.

[13ghosts]

That sounds about right.

Do does anyone have a ballpark of how long it will take for withdrawal to set in after stopping 200mg ms-contin cold? I could come down to 100 by next Thursday, but probably not less. And will have ended norcos a few days before, and they leave the system quickly. The ms-contins are time release, so that is of concern, but I have bee cutting them in half or even 1/4s so as to have them go through my system more quickly, which could work to my advantage in this scenario.

Anyway, I'd love to hear from those of you who might know how long it should take--ballpark--to go into moderate withdrawal, which is necessary before starting the subutex.

Thanks for your help.

[htoth19]

Here you go 13ghosts. This is what Robert calls the COWS worksheet, its got all you need to know about induction into subs. I do know that you have to be a 26 on this withdrawal scale in order to start the subs, hope it helps.

http://www.suboxone.com/pdfs/OWR.pdf

[melinda7.5]

Hi 13 ghosts
here again everyone is different...it could take anywhere from 12 to 30 hours.
I know people that have only had to wait 12 hours before they started but you want to wait till you hit the 26 on the worksheet that heather gave you.
I'm really getting excited for you...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[13ghosts]

I want to thank everyone for their help. I did get a worksheet from the doctor, so I have that to go on, as well as the one you provided. And just for clarity, NewYorkGal, I am not coming off of methadone (been there, done that) but ms-contin and norco. I know the latter will leave the system quickly but the time release of the ms-contin is a bit trickier. I asked the doc about tapering down and he said that while it is always better to be on as low a dose as possible before making the switch, it is not mandatory with the ms-contin. So I just have to give myself enough time. Even if it does take as long as 30 hours to be in that state of withdrawal, that will work for my timeframe, because as I recall, the subutex stabilizes you pretty quickly. My fear is that it will take longer than a weekend to be well enough to get back to work. I can spare about 48 hours this coming weekend, so if there's an outside chance that it will take longer, or that I should be liberal with the amount of time it may take the subutex to work, than I may have to put it off until Thanksgiving, when I can have cold turkey with my hot turkey.

Again, thanks for all your support and advice!

[13ghosts]

Apologies to Newyorkgal in my previous post. I realized too late that you were referring to Somer's post (and methadone), not mine. Please pardon the snafu.