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  1. #1
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Default Square One...

    I'll be brief.
    My drug of choice: >>>>>>.
    My last detox: August 2010.
    I came to this site then on 4.5mg of sub. Using Robert's method, I was successfully off the subutex in 5 weeks.
    I was already seeing a therapist by then, I had new hobbies, I joined a gym.
    I excelled at almost everything I did. There was no stopping me.
    I almost made it to two years clean. Almost.
    As you can gather from the above, I've relapsed.
    I haven't been back on the H very long, about 6 or 7 weeks, with a few days of stopping thrown in at some point.
    I'm already taking around 1.5 g of H. Nasally, not iv.
    I have four subutex pills left. I gave most of them away two years ago (being as this is the Middle East, we get the pill from friends, so this was my way of helping someone else.)
    I would rather do Robert's method again, but there aren't enough pills, and it's going to have to be a fast taper.
    Any support you guys can offer me would be great. And if you have any advice on dosing schedule for a fast taper, please chime in.
    I'm ashamed to be back at square one. But I refuse to let that stop me from picking myself up.
    I've timed induction for next Friday, couldn't take any days off work before then. Hopefully, I can taper down the H a bit before then, though who knows with us addicts.

    Thank you for reading through.
    To my old friends here, I've missed you a lot and it's good to see you're still here, paying it forward.
    This forum is awesome.

  2. #2
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hey winged one...
    i don't know squat about about H or subs...
    but will be here to support you.

  3. #3
    LovesAnimals is offline Member
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    Hi Winged, I wanted you to know that I have no experience with >>>>>>e. My drug of choice was oxycotin (sp?), 80-160mg a day – chewing them, not swallowing so there was no time release. Anyway, just wanted to give you a little info because what I did with the suboxone might not be the same for you.
    I only had (10) 2mg films that I got from a doctor & (1) 8mg pill that a “friend” was kind enough to give me. I did Roberts taper starting at 2mg. I dropped 25% after 3 days instead of 4. I almost had enough with a total of 28mg. When I got down to the .25 dose, I dosed 3 days at .25 & think I has .50 left to go a day and skip…. It wasn’t a cake walk (for me typically day 2 was the worst when I dropped) but I could push myself to do the things I had to do.
    I was not sure what dosage your pills were – 2mg or 8mg? If it’s 8mg obviously it’s better! I just wanted to answer your post & share a little about my taper.
    Good luck to you!
    Dee
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  4. #4
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Thank you, Marian :-) I really appreciate it!

  5. #5
    Anonymous Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by winged eagle View Post
    Thank you, Marian :-) I really appreciate it!
    yeah, feeling for you....
    no fun going thru this again...
    thinkin' we have a couple friends in common?

  6. #6
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Dee, I have a total of 4 pills of 8mg each, a total of 32 mg. If I induct at 2 or less, great, but I'm worried my recent spike in usage might make that closer to 4mg at induction. I'm basically going to do a combo of Robert's method and a faster taper, 3 days instead of 4, or even 2 before dropping. 30% or more of a drop instead of 25... I'm hoping the fact that I've only been on the H a few weeks will make all the difference.
    Thank you so much for posting and the info, means a lot.
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  7. #7
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwally View Post
    yeah, feeling for you....
    no fun going thru this again...
    thinkin' we have a couple friends in common?
    Yup, we sure do :-D i just wish Blue were still around and that Cheeky posted more often, but they have their own issues to deal with at this point. Cant believe it says "retired" under Robert's name. It's like the end of an era... Glad to know Reid is still here, was expecting a post from him by now (he's usually the first to post when I drop by and update my old thread...)
    I've followed your thread at one point, congrats on pushing through :-)
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  8. #8
    Anonymous Guest

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    Just msg'd blue,
    he's following....
    hurricane and RNC and other things keeping him busy.
    kiwi will be on....
    reid's dog had surgery, ok now, he's only on during the week.
    what day and time is it there?

  9. #9
    Anonymous Guest

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    just saw the "retired" under robt's name.....
    missed that.
    whoa!

  10. #10
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    It's Sunday, 7:30pm here right now.
    Yes, heard about the hurricane, I hope everyone's alright over there.
    I also hope Reid's dog gets through surgery with flying colors. I freakin' love animals :-)
    caughtagain likes this.

  11. #11
    Anonymous Guest

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    Think Reid's dog is ok.
    Think Blue's ok.
    Think i will lose my mind trying to
    remember your time zone and the kiwi's!!!!
    winged eagle likes this.

  12. #12
    MP5
    MP5 is offline Member
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    Hi Winged Eagle, I don't think I was around when you were here last, but welcome back. Sorry it is under these circumstance's. I used subs and Robert's taper to get off >>>>>> 8 months ago. I would like to think that you should be able to induct at much much lower than 4mg's. Just make sure you take your time and go in small increments when inducting. It is easier said than done, considering how you feel at the time, but it will make the rest of the process much easier. Let me know if I can do anything to help.

    Mike
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by winged eagle View Post
    Yup, we sure do :-D i just wish Blue were still around and that Cheeky posted more often, but they have their own issues to deal with at this point. Cant believe it says "retired" under Robert's name. It's like the end of an era... Glad to know Reid is still here, was expecting a post from him by now (he's usually the first to post when I drop by and update my old thread..
    I've followed your thread at one point, congrats on pushing through :-)
    I'm coming out of retirement to help an old friend, but I doubt I will be doing too much more . Theres one particular thread on here that didn't actually make me want to quit, but others like it did and that one certainly doesn't make me regret my decision!

    Ok Winged, let's do this!

  14. #14
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azul Diablo View Post
    I'm coming out of retirement to help an old friend, but I doubt I will be doing too much more . Theres one particular thread on here that didn't actually make me want to quit, but others like it did and that one certainly doesn't make me regret my decision!

    Ok Winged, let's do this!
    YOU'RE BACK!!
    So happy to see you here, Blue :-D
    Yup, let's. I'm ready.

    MP5, thank you so much for your post. I agree, 4mg is high, I'm hoping to induct at a lower dose, it's just that 2 years ago it took that much to stabilize me. However, circumstances are quite a bit different now. I've only been using again for a few weeks (whereas before it had been years), my habit is a lot smaller this time around (only having gone up to the current dose very recently), my good habits are still in place thanks to the fact that I haven't been using long, etc.
    I have hope it will be fine. Either way, no one gets a free ride.
    Thanks again for your offer of help, will be sure to take you up on it when the time comes :-)
    And congrats on getting off H and sub!
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  15. #15
    Anonymous Guest

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    you know you can always count on me mate.

  16. #16
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    Winged one!!! Count me in.. Sorry about falling off the horse... or is it falling on the horse... No matter, I am herre for you. Looking at the names above is why this forum IS GOOD... We do care and will help.. You have always been in our thoughts throughout the time you were not here, we were hoping things were well with you. (Bluey and I talk daily). In any event, we will be here for moral support Sorry I was away this past weekend.. I usually take off on the weekend, but this weekend a little one had some surgery... In any event, just as you did last time, you will ace this and get through it.. All my best, Reid
    Oh and as far as Roberto. He has been dealing with some Stuff and is trying to get his head straight. Spoke with him today and he is doing better...
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  17. #17
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    WADDUP, REID?! Lol... Good to see you on my thread, couldn't imagine not having you around. You were awesome the last time I went through this, so I'm counting on you and everyone else who's willing for the kind of support that got me through this mess previously. As for off or on the horse, I'm not sure, but basically feel sorry for the horse now :-p Heard about the surgery, hope it went without a hitch! Wishing her/him (?) a speedy recovery.
    Cheeks, I knew I could count on you kiwi. No doubts there. You're one of the people here that I immensely respect; you tell it like it is, and I know I need to hear the truth more than I'd need rainbows and unicorns puking stars or whatever :-p

    Hope everyone's had a good start to the week. But Mondays sure do suck, don't they?
    Have a question for you all:
    A couple of years ago, a friend who was soon to die of cancer gave me Neurontin. I researched it then (as I did again extensively today), and found out that it really helps some people with withdrawal, especially those who've never taken it before.
    Now, seeing as I don't have anywhere near the amount needed for a proper sub taper, I'm thinking of including it in my regimen. Question is: Before sub or after? I.e. I could induct and taper quickly down and then use some Neurontin (we're talking 3 days here at most) to alleviate lingering withdrawal symptoms (and that's if it's even needed, mind you), OR do I take Neurontin on days 1 and 2, then induct on a low, low sub dose on day 3?

    Think about it, guys. I could use all the input I can get.
    I know some of you might advise me to stay away from such a plan, but let's just put that aside for now. I might not even need the Neurontin. Who knows, I might not even need a lot of sub to begin with. My newly re-acquired habit could very well result in a mild withdrawal (though I doubt that), or probably won't be bad enough to necessitate the use of anything extra.
    I'm just looking for some logical answers, I guess. I know you guys have the goods, so hand them over, I'm all ears :-D
    Last edited by winged eagle; 08-27-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  18. #18
    Anonymous Guest

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    Lol..winged!
    I really don't know anything about the neurontin but rumors here and there....

  19. #19
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    Winged one.... Stay away from the Neurontin... It messes with the brain chemistry too much so the risk outweighs the reward.. In my opinion.. I was put on that once many years ago (CA round one) and at that time, Docs would just tell patients to keep upping the dose, no harm no foul... Welp, just like Tramadol once the patient stops taking it, the potential for seizure is there... Again, just my opinion, but I do not like anything that messes with the SSRI system of the brain... Now as far as what you have... couldn't you just induct on a super low dose? I have seen on here where Robert induced people on super low doses.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    might be worth a read (his protocol)
    Reid

  20. #20
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by winged eagle View Post
    WADDUP, REID?! Lol... Good to see you on my thread, couldn't imagine not having you around. You were awesome the last time I went through this, so I'm counting on you and everyone else who's willing for the kind of support that got me through this mess previously. As for off or on the horse, I'm not sure, but basically feel sorry for the horse now :-p Heard about the surgery, hope it went without a hitch! Wishing her/him (?) a speedy recovery.
    Cheeks, I knew I could count on you kiwi. No doubts there. You're one of the people here that I immensely respect; you tell it like it is, and I know I need to hear the truth more than I'd need rainbows and unicorns puking stars or whatever :-p

    Hope everyone's had a good start to the week. But Mondays sure do suck, don't they?
    Have a question for you all:
    A couple of years ago, a friend who was soon to die of cancer gave me Neurontin. I researched it then (as I did again extensively today), and found out that it really helps some people with withdrawal, especially those who've never taken it before.
    Now, seeing as I don't have anywhere near the amount needed for a proper sub taper, I'm thinking of including it in my regimen. Question is: Before sub or after? I.e. I could induct and taper quickly down and then use some Neurontin (we're talking 3 days here at most) to alleviate lingering withdrawal symptoms (and that's if it's even needed, mind you), OR do I take Neurontin on days 1 and 2, then induct on a low, low sub dose on day 3?

    Think about it, guys. I could use all the input I can get.
    I know some of you might advise me to stay away from such a plan, but let's just put that aside for now. I might not even need the Neurontin. Who knows, I might not even need a lot of sub to begin with. My newly re-acquired habit could very well result in a mild withdrawal (though I doubt that), or probably won't be bad enough to necessitate the use of anything extra.
    I'm just looking for some logical answers, I guess. I know you guys have the goods, so hand them over, I'm all ears :-D



    Hey Winged .... the only time I suggest using neurontin, gabapentin, etc is when you get down towards the end of the taper. There are some drs that use it from the beginning but as Reid said, don't want to create a new problem for yourself.

    I have been off here for a while, have some personal issues to deal with so you won't see me much for a while. Just saw your post and wanted to drop a little tidbit of advice. Hope that helps. God bless and stay safe in that crazy part of the world right now.
    caughtagain, MP5 and shybaybe2003 like this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  21. #21
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Winged .... and with that small amount of time you've been using you should start out on .5mg on your induction, wait TWO hours, then do another .5mg, wait another two hours, then drop to .25mg increments. Do that and you'll stabilize at less that 2mg waiting two hours between every dose. H is fast acting so you'll be able to get by with a small amount of subs if you do what I just said. You need to go at least a few days though at that induction dose to let the original >>>>>> detox to get past the worst symptoms. Then you can taper every three days if you can stand a little discomfort and you'll have enough to get through this. You can always reach my facebook if you need to and I'm not on here. You know how to use that COWS worksheet for the induction already. Do it now! God bless.


    And who retired me? I just said I had some personal issues I had to deal with.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 08-27-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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  22. #22
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    I knew you'd come, Robert!! :-D
    Means so much to me that you did. I know you've basically put the forum on the back burner for now, and you know, I think it was time you took some time for you and Melinda. The number of posts you have here do not accurately convey the amount of help you've dispensed. The emails, the one-on-ones, your work at church, there's so much more... I only hope that you're in good health and happy :-)
    Thanks for the advice. I thought as much as well. Toward the end. Well, actually, thought after the taper ends, but if you say it's beneficial before then, I believe you :-D
    Reid, thank you for chiming in. I understand your concerns about Neurontin, and I'm especially grateful that it comes from first-hand experience. Again, I most probably won't even use it. I asked the same question on page one of my first thread, and ended up not needing to go there. It's just nice to know that IF I had to, IF the subs don't last, if if if... Then, yeah, it helps just knowing there could be something to help relieve the misery. Mind tricks :-p
    As for Robert's sub protocol... Are you kidding me? I know that thing by heart. It was literally my modus operandi two years ago! Lol..
    Gentlemen, thanks again for the input, much appreciated.
    Robert, it's so strange seeing the new status under your name, but I'm glad you're doing what you need to. Give Melinda a big BIG hug from me, yes?
    And don't worry, the region can't get crazier than what I can tolerate... So far. But it HAS been insane, hasn't it.. Wow, the things that have happened just in the past year. Nuts.
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  23. #23
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Winged .... and with that small amount of time you've been using you should start out on .5mg on your induction, wait TWO hours, then do another .5mg, wait another two hours, then drop to .25mg increments. Do that and you'll stabilize at less that 2mg waiting two hours between every dose. H is fast acting so you'll be able to get by with a small amount of subs if you do what I just said. You need to go at least a few days though at that induction dose to let the original >>>>>> detox to get past the worst symptoms. Then you can taper every three days if you can stand a little discomfort and you'll have enough to get through this. You can always reach my facebook if you need to and I'm not on here. You know how to use that COWS worksheet for the induction already. Do it now! God bless.


    And who retired me? I just said I had some personal issues I had to deal with.

    Noted. Will definitely follow those instructions strictly.
    The induction is planned for Friday morning local time. My last dose should be Thursday morning, that way I'll get through the day and have Friday (took the day off, all they'd give me at this busy point) and the rest of the weekend to get myself together.

    And yeah, why would they change your status if you didn't expressly ask for it? Seems odd...

  24. #24
    Anonymous Guest

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    And who retired me? I just said I had some personal issues I had to deal with.

    Don't know Robert....
    blew my mind!
    Marian

  25. #25
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwally View Post
    And who retired me? I just said I had some personal issues I had to deal with.

    Don't know Robert....
    blew my mind!
    Marian

    I just sent the moderator an email. I'm sure they will reinstate the old status. I have had some issues to deal with and told them what was happening. They probably thought I NEEDED to retire, but I never made that request. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  26. #26
    Anonymous Guest

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    i agree winged. start on tiny amounts so you get inducted low. you GOTTA do that to make it on the amount of subs you have.
    that will be friday night for me when ya do. shout out on fb, and i will get a text if im not on my computer ok. ?

    algudz girl. (enjoy the last week then
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  27. #27
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    Good morning Winged one! Just checking in to see how you are making out... Hop on and give a an update and a plan...Tried to text Blue, but he was at an All you can eat Waffle house.... Reid

  28. #28
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    Hello, Reid!
    Glad to hear Blue's at the all you can eat waffle house, it's important to weigh himself down what with a hurricane headed his way. Wouldn't want our Azul to be swept away, now would we
    The plan is still the same:
    If all goes well, I should be ready to induct on Friday morning. I'll be dosing in tiny increments of .5mg. Hopefully I'll stabilize at less than 2. If not, the plan will need some readjustment. Let's wait and see..
    All good with you?

  29. #29
    caughtagain is offline Diamond Member
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    yeah... Pup is hurting.. Had to take her back to the ER last night.. Doc made the suture in her eye too long and it scratched the Cornea... OY.... Well, I will be rooting you on Winged! So are you not taking anything now to get to that 26 score? If so hang in there, if not... when do you start that... Yeah, BLuey he loves him some waffles.. LOL....

  30. #30
    winged eagle is offline Advanced Member
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    I hope pup feel better soon! It must be heartbreaking seeing the suffering... poor thing..
    Umm.. I don't think I understood what you mean by taking anything now to get to 26 score? I know I shouldn't take a single thing after my very last dose, so as not to mask the true score when the time comes. And that time should come by Friday morning (if last dose is Thursday before noon). You guys will probably be heading to bed or already asleep by then, but I think Cheeky will be up, so I'll be sure to whine at her until I get stabilized

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