[brndout]

Originally Posted by brndout

Hi -This is Linda and my husband and I were on subs for three months with last dose of .25 being on April 18. We found robert late so started to high but we finished the taper with him. I will share a story I haven't told on here because it may help you. The problem with me when I did as you were doing was because I did not understand suboxone. In my world if 3 were good than 8 were even better. I did not know what Suboxone was, an opiate, that it has a ceiling effect at 16mg, its very long 1/2 life -between 36 and 72 hours, how very powerful it really is, I could feel a .06 dose when I was down to .25, how small these doses really are, and the nature of suboxone itself.(more later on that) Anyway, the first time i tried it was in november and I did the induction in Dr. office and he put me on 16mg. -8mg. twice a day. I felt fine when I left but started getting anxious so about two hours later took another half. I was still anxious as Suboxone doesn't help with anxiety sobefore bed I took another half and then woke up in the night and took a quarter. Well in the morning it was time for my 8 mg. dose etc....so you get the picture i was taking it for anxiety and because i was used to taking pills etc. to make me feel better. Well it made me feel worse and I got a terrible headache and quit after several days and went back to original drug. I even did it one more time like that and it did'nt work. I have a very healthy respect for it know and those pieces you are taking add up to be a very large dose and it will just make things worse.I will tell you more of my story as you go on with this but you absolutly have to listen and do what Robert is telling you. No, "I'll try ". You decided to get off and if thats what you really want, at this dose you just do. Over 16 is just a waste anyway and you need to taper down as quickly as you can. I had a lot of anxiety and had no anxiety meds but it got better in a short time. Suboxone does not work like any other drug I have ever taken, you will need to make a commitment and not waver at this point, do exactly what Robert says, be regimented and purposeful-dose when you are supposed to and take no more than that and finally you need to be the one in control of this. It does not control you and it is a good drug to get off opiates , if used properly. I really can't stress that enough - you're attitude about this need to be proactive you are using it as a tool to get where you want to be, it isn't telling you what to do . Let there be NO other options -eyes forward, don't look back and keep going straight forward-you will be very glad you did .

If you re read my post you'll see that I got a terrible headache from too much suboxone so maybe it's nota migrane and will get better when dose drops. Hang in there.

[bellabarbara]

when i took the subutex the headaches stopped....................love,b

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bellabarbara

when i took the subutex the headaches stopped....................love,b

I knew the subutex would help. You've been reacting to the naloxone plus the high dose.

You should be able to follow the suggestions now Barbara since you're on the subutex. What dose have you taken today? Tell me exactly what you've taken the last 3-4 days. We are going to get your dose down. God bless.

[bellabarbara]

i have a appt. on thurs with my doc. i have to bring my suboxone to show him whats left. i don't want to officially begin until fri a.m. i made a few mistakes trying to make the headache go away and i want to be totally honest...my goal every day is 16, it went well yesterday. love, b

[Robert_325]

If you stay at 16mg until Thursday you'll be ready then to reduce your dose to 12mg. You will have plenty of time on 16mg that the reduction should go easily. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Way to go Barb ...I knew you could do it...
let us know how it goes today...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[bellabarbara]

your scaring me robert! 12? oh no i'm panicking again! lots of warmth, b

[Robert_325]

There is nothing to be scared of or to panic about. Do you want to be on subs for a long time or for life? If not you need to reduce the dose every four days just like everyone else does.

Tapering is a piece of cake at this dose. IF you're having problems it's all in your head. There is nothing painful about dropping from 16mg to 12mg. God bless.

[brndout]

Originally Posted by bellabarbara

your scaring me robert! 12? oh no i'm panicking again! lots of warmth, b

I want to second what Robert is saying. In January I went from 12mg to 2 mg. in six days and my husband went from 14 to 2. We obviously weren't with Robert yet but my point is we were fine going from 12 to 8 to 4-3-2. We skipped days 7,8,9 and that is another story. You will be fine . Listen to Robert, he would not tell you to do something that wouldn't be good for you, you can throughly trust him and Melinda. Stick with it. Linda

[bellabarbara]

"ZERO SUFFERING" those words give me so much hope.......with love & light, b

[bellabarbara]

robert- i'm trusting you more every day...i'm just worried about the end of the taper doesn't it involve taking tiny mgs...that's what i read all over this website...and that's fine with me but could you give me some idea of the end of the taper
if i get through this with minor pain i will personally come and find you and find M ad tell her she has to get a divorce!! seriously i am feeling your love and light in all the postings and photos......God Bess You both big time!!! your friend, b

[Robert_325]

The end of the taper depends on you and how you're doing. That's why I ask people to post as they are progressing. If I was able to say what was going to happen for everyone I would just post that information and I wouldn't need to be here. It's not a big deal if you have a positive attitude and do as you're asked.

I have already been divorced twice in my life. I have waited 20 years between marriages this time. I don't intend on ever divorcing again. God bless.

No Robert may not be a doctor but he has had a lot of experience with people detoxing with subs....from what I know of it 24 mg sounds like a lot to start at I am glad you are following Roberts taper routine he really seems to know his stuff.
Robert I know your marrige will work I can see the kind of person you are and this is a perfect union.
I look forward to hearing about your wedding and I wish you and melinda nothing but the best !!!
Best wishes for a speedy and successful detox and recovery !!!

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by bellabarbara

robert- i'm trusting you more every day...i'm just worried about the end of the taper doesn't it involve taking tiny mgs...that's what i read all over this website...and that's fine with me but could you give me some idea of the end of the taper
if i get through this with minor pain i will personally come and find you and find M ad tell her she has to get a divorce!! seriously i am feeling your love and light in all the postings and photos......God Bess You both big time!!! your friend, b

NO WAY Girlfriend He is all Mine
but I don't blame you for trying...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[bellabarbara]

i thought you'd enjoy that...........my guy will come walking down my path when HP decides. i haven;t made too many sane decisions about men in the path including a crazed musician and a couple of years rocking with the Dead wherever they went! M right now i desire peace, stillness, awareness, self-worth and that pure belief that all is well in my world and i'm exactly where i'm supposed to be cause my God is holding me close in light and love and will never let me down. you guys, you beautiful couple are His instrument...my guardian angels, sending me the spirit that i can't find by myself but I know its there....i just forget through the demonic chemical haze.
good nite, sleep tight and comfy please know how graeful i feel for the blessing of you both, love barb

[Robert_325]

I chased the Dead around myself for a while in 71-72. It was a blast! Followed one tour all over the south with the Dead and Jefferson Airplane.

Don't feel too badly about your "less than sane" decisions. I think we've all made a few mistakes or we wouldn't be here. God bless.

[bellabarbara]

"we're all here because we're all not there!"
no regrets about anything about the Dead, except that Jerry's not here
i just took my 8 mgs a.m.
good luck to me, b

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

NO WAY Girlfriend He is all Mine
but I don't blame you for trying...
Talk to you later, Melinda

LOL melinda the ladies are swooning already better get that ring on his finger quick. HAHAHAHAHA
I hope all is going well with you and I continue to wish you well in your upcoming marriage....you two seem perfect for eachother.

bella....I am pulling for you as you follow Roberts taper routine I am glad to see he is helping you as he has many in here.
Best wishes again in your recovery !!

AFSGTSAM

[Freedom4me]

Bella,
I hope you are doing well. I know it is hard but you can do this.

[bellabarbara]

thanks all you....you all are helping me to do for me what i cannot do for myself....angels.................all of you, b

[magsj]

Dear Bella-

I just wanted to drop in to say hello and congratulations on your decision to discontinue opiates and your decision to follow Robert's advice....

I am taking suboxone and am at 4mg..I can tell you HONESTLY.. I dropped from 12mg to 8mg in one day and had no withdrawal whatsoever. I also dropped from 8mg to 4mg without any withdrawal. I know it is difficult to understand all there is to know about Suboxone/Subutex, the more you learn you will realize that higher doses are not necessary. Subutex/Suboxone has a "ceiling effect", above a certain dosage the drug is designed not to have any cumulative/escalating effect. From my own experience, for the most part, I honestly don't think that one receives any benefit from doses above 4mg.

I promise that PHYSICALLY you will be fine dropping from 16mg to 12mg and most likely will continue to be fine tapering until you get to a much much lower dose.

I hope this helpsl.....were all rooting for you Bella. Commit to follow Robert's instructions and you will make it. You have a great group of people surrounding you )

Hugs,
mags

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by AFSGTSAM

LOL melinda the ladies are swooning already better get that ring on his finger quick. HAHAHAHAHA
I hope all is going well with you and I continue to wish you well in your upcoming marriage....you two seem perfect for eachother.

bella....I am pulling for you as you follow Roberts taper routine I am glad to see he is helping you as he has many in here.
Best wishes again in your recovery !!

AFSGTSAM

Hi Eric

Thanks for well wishes and I hope you and your family is doing well also.

LOL...I know I have to share him a little on here...It's funny tho I have to bet them ladies off with a stick everywhere we go...

Have a great day my friend !!!
talk soon, Melinda

[bellabarbara]

mags thanks
but that sentence "continue to be fine until you get to a much, much lower dose"
that's the thing thats freaking me out and making me sweat and panicky
robert.......melinda..........linda are you guys there?????......you need to reassure me again, PLEASE you indicated no suffering just listen to robert.....but now i have that big fear thing again need you guys s.o.s. this drug has made me feel so fractured and vulnerable......if i sound like i'm the world's biggest baby thats what i feel like......

[Robert_325]

Barbara ... You've got to get a grip. You can't start freaking out because someone says you won't have any problems at this dose. They were trying to encourage you not warn you about the future and how hard it will be then. Quit reading imaginary things into what people are saying to you.

Not anyone can tell you exactly what is going to happen a month from now. But I can tell you this about a month from now with complete certainty. If you don't follow the suggestions I give you then in a month you'll still be trying to get off 16mg and you'll be in a mess. You'll be getting addicted to the goofy suboxone at that point from taking too much for too long. I can GUARANTEE that is the truth without a doubt. This is serious, it isn't a game. You've got to lower your dose or else get off the suboxone entirely. It will be causing you more harm than good.

I can't do much to help a person if that person is so totally overwhelmed with fear to the point where it paralyzes them. That sounds like some kind of emotional problem seriously. Your trippin over reducing from 16mg to 12mg when that is about as serious as starting a diet but not being able to drop from eating ten chocolate chip cookies to eight. It doesn't even make any sense. Just drop the dose and get it over with. Give someone else the subs to hold for you if you have to. Just keep back 12mg for each day. Do whatever you have to do but you need to drop the dose. God bless.

[bellabarbara]

ok robert
i'll do as told
maybe you don't remember i broke my back a year ago,,,i;ve been on subs on and off for 9 months with periods of oxy use with the last use in may...so maybe i;m already in a bad place with all that sub use
i;m so sorry.......lets just take it a minute at a time
mags i apologize .......and i am grateful for you support
i am reaching for the light

[bellabarbara]

OH GOD
robert i'm so sorry for having a breakdown on line in front of everyone. I went back and read so many positive tapers with Robert at the helm and all you very sincere folks walking it through with me. i am doubling up on all my spiritual readings and going to spend a lot of time on my knees in surrender. My heavenly Father has never let me down...,i am a miracle to be alive. I humbly apologize Robert. I want to do this with you guiding me. i'm going for the subutex tomorrow. i will write to you as soon as i get home and i'm gonna make it, I'm going to be free again. Blessings, b

[tired2]

Hi Barb...just thought I'd let you know you are in the best hands so just relax and you will be fine....I was on 16 mg of Suboxone and had to switch to Subutex which I did well on it was rough at first b/c the first sub was wrong for me I got lucky and found this forum and Robert who was a God send....go for a walk when you start to feel like you can't do this ....it will help you to get your mind focused on something else as you do your taper...we all have are moment it's natural but you need to just stop and tell your self it will be ok.....I have been on every pain pill and benzo's out there for 25 + years not to mention recreational drugs ...well now I took my last dose of subs and I'm Opiate free....I will be staring my Benzo taper next...
Before I finally made up my mind to do this I would totally freak out if I left the house without my pills or if my pill stash was low... It's all the drugs controlling you ....you have to set your mind and do not let the drugs control you.You do not need such a high dose of Subs....doctors like to over perscribe and keep you coming back.
I hope this helps some so please do exactly as Robert says and you will be fine....
You can do this!!!!
Pam

[bellabarbara]

thanks pam
i have composed myself and i took my dog emma for a walk. i'm in FL and it's about 86 degrees and humid so it was a short walk but healing for both of us. there's a pool here about one block away and i will motivate myself to swim and float in the cool water......see....i'm getting better already! thanks to you pam and all the folks here who truly understand this! love & light, barb

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by bellabarbara

OH GOD
robert i'm so sorry for having a breakdown on line in front of everyone. I went back and read so many positive tapers with Robert at the helm and all you very sincere folks walking it through with me. i am doubling up on all my spiritual readings and going to spend a lot of time on my knees in surrender. My heavenly Father has never let me down...,i am a miracle to be alive. I humbly apologize Robert. I want to do this with you guiding me. i'm going for the subutex tomorrow. i will write to you as soon as i get home and i'm gonna make it, I'm going to be free again. Blessings, b

Barbara ... you don't have to apologize to me. I don't like to sound harsh on the forum at all. I'm a Christian too and I like to be pleasant.

Please understand that this is very serious and I have a limited amount of time. I'm spread so thin across this forum that I sometimes have to make a point. I'm sorry to say that sometimes the only way I can get a person's attention is to make a point. It's being done with the best of intentions though.

The most important thing is that you end up clean off these pills just like you want. The only way I can help you do that is if you listen to me. Otherwise I'm spinning my wheels and wasting both of our time. I just don't have any time to waste here. I'm too busy.

The important thing here is that if you are focused now then me making a point was worth it. That's all I'm doing here is trying to help you get off the subs. I'm trying to make that happen as painlessly as possible. I would rather that I never had to hurt anyone's feelings. I don't like to do that. But if it comes down to getting someone's attention but they get clean because of it, then it was worth it to both of us. I just want you to be successful and to end up clean.

I've been where you are struggling. I did it for over 35 years. I relapsed several times after spending time in rehab twice. But God saw fit to spare me and to take away my addictions. All things are possible through Him. Even old Dead Heads like you and me can get clean. Hope that helps. God bless.

[brndout]

Originally Posted by bellabarbara

mags thanks
but that sentence "continue to be fine until you get to a much, much lower dose"
that's the thing thats freaking me out and making me sweat and panicky
robert.......melinda..........linda are you guys there?????......you need to reassure me again, PLEASE you indicated no suffering just listen to robert.....but now i have that big fear thing again need you guys s.o.s. this drug has made me feel so fractured and vulnerable......if i sound like i'm the world's biggest baby thats what i feel like......

Hi- This is Linda and when I read that line in Mags post I knew you were going to freak. I'll have to say you have even worse anxiety than I do, and that's saying something. My daughter got me a book once to prove to me that I didn't need to worry so much . It was called What If, talk about freaking out I had never even thought of these things before. It gave me a whole other world to worry about, anyway she was sorry she got me that. As for you, I told you it will be just fine, nothing at the end but a few chills and some fatigue. I'll tell you my Suboxone taper analogy - you need to be like the tortise(Pam) in the story The Tortise and The Hare. The rabbit went fast, fast ,fast and burned himself out so he lay down to take a nap and the entire time tortise was just plodding along, putting one foot in front of the other, yet keeping his eye on the finish line. Well you know who won -tortise while Hare was taking a nap- Moral is Slow and Steady wins the race!! You need to be the tortise. Relax do what is in front of you for today only. Keep your eyes on the finish line and do not look back. question, or falter. You have made up your mind and you are in good hands.