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Since I, in some moment of clarity (or insanity) told my Doctor to put me on a "no opiate" list I am getting just that: no more. Since I have a weekend (starting next Friday Am) of physical activity coming up, I pretty much have to give up the "taper" idea and get with it. With any kind of luck, I should be over the worst of it by next Friday?
Question: if you take a pill in the middle of this does it put you back to point 1? Or can it be a relief valve? I am not without some backup (11 10/325 Norcos) which means if I can take one a day (at what time?) I can get myself with a little help through the next week. Is that a better plan than quitting and hoping for the best next weekend? (I have been all over the map the last few days: 1-4 each day). I just don't know. The last time I did a ct I could barely walk for several days. Any opinions?
I'll respectfully let Robert guide you through, just wanted to say WOW, thalia, bold strong move on your part with your doc! Nice going! You just keep getting stronger & more determined, it's cool to see that, I'm proud of you!
i'm so proud of u thalia. i can feel ur strength. it takes a lot to make the decision 'final'. i'm so glad u did. it'll be over before u know it. just stay this strong, and i'm sure u'll be fine. personally, i think your outside endeavor will make it easier because you'll be able to focus on having FUN after some poopy days. And will make u get up and moving. i give ur moment of CLARITY 2 thumbs up.
My opinion.....flush the stash!
What an awful night at about 2:30; those cold/hot sweats. I finally got up and read here, gave in and took 1-1/2 pill. I think I am going to try to keep it at that till I get through this next weekend. I have to be up early anyway on Saturdays as I have my home group AA.
Originally Posted by shadowwally
Anyway, I have enough pills to keep it at 2 a day until I get through next weekend. I just know what that physical fatigue is like (I stumble around like the proverbial drunken sailor). Probably most of the people we will see next weekend are on something anyway, ironically.
Am I being a fool here? How would I feel next Friday if I do go ct? Although the last time I went ct it was from 7 5/500 Hydro. The 1-1/2 of which I speak is 10-325 Norco. (I suppose that is double the strength?)
thalia you have been around here for a while now, and i beleive you are just delaying the inevitable, i agree with shadowwally, you should flush your stash.... dont see why you still have one anyway.
get rid of it. and by the weekend you will be well over the worst... and taking 15mg of norco, ppfffft, just stop.... you will have minimal discomfort off that amount.
Thalia, I have to agree with what Cheeky said......at this point you are delaying the inevitable. The fact is that, even with tapering, you ARE going to go through some discomfort. At the level you are taking, it's not going to be that bad. I came off of 60 mg oxycodone CT and was able to function. Was I happy? Nope...Was I at my best? Nope....Was I crawling out of my skin at times? Yup!....but the fact is you will get through it. You are building up the WD to be worse than the actual WD will be. The fear of it is making you prolong this.
In your original post you said you had 11 left (enough for about 1 a day till next weekend). Now after taking some this morning you have enough to take 2 a day through next weekend? Please don't take offense to my questions, I'm just trying to figure out where you are actually at with all of this.
Here is what is most likely your reality. If you take 1-1/2 a day for the next week, you are going to feel WD symptoms all week, and you still won't be feeling well by your plans next weekend. If you flush your stash (as scary as that sounds), you will be on Day 6 by Friday morning and starting Day 7 on Saturday morning. People who come off MUCH higher and MUCH harsher things than you are currently taking are feeling much better by that point. If you don't take anything else between then and now, it should not affect your plans. You may not feel GREAT, but it will not ruin your plans. Think of this....what if you weren't addicted to pills, and you just woke up on Friday morning feeling lousy? Maybe had a stomach bug or a head cold? What would you do? If you weren't that bad you would go on your trip, plaster a smile on your face and get through it. We all have memories of plans being hindered by illness long before pills were in our lives. What did we do then? Try to call back on that.
I'm going to be honest with you (not because I want to be harsh, but because I think you need it). However many pills you have left (11, 14?), I don't think you are going to make it to Friday with any left anyways. I think that you will end up taking most of them before then....and most likely wake up on Thursday or Friday with almost nothing left, and put yourself in the situation of being on Day 1 or 2 by your trip. Then you will really be unhappy. I say this because it's what happened to me countless times, over and over. I had the numbers all figured out, rationed...and it never worked out that way. I also say this because you yourself stated that this past week you were "all over the map" with how many you were taking. What makes you think that you will be able to control it any better this week?
Last edited by deleted116; 06-02-2012 at 07:32 AM.
yes moon you have it right on.couldnt have said it better myself...
i too have been in countless situations, going to stay in the cabin, with enough to taper, gonna get clean, yeh yeh, would use too much and come back out and score.. its really hard to taper, it just goes against our natures (well most of us anyways if we are honest)
thalia, i hope you read moons post and take it as intended, moon has called you out. no need to even respond to be honest, but i hope you read it and have a good honest think about it... just for yourself...
more likely you will use them up before friday and end up gettin some more till after the weekend, so you arent sick, and its gonna continue. there will always be another event or something you cant be sick for.
Thanks Moon and Cheekysod,
Maybe I am finally getting honest (took a lot of years). The pill count had to do with the "treasure hunt" that I know we always go through when we are finally off these devils. I also realize today is probably the last day to quit and have a chance at being mostly OK next weekend.
The husband is gone all day today so I don't have to hide any symptoms. I know that when I am trying to hide things I get so nervous it is at least half of what I am feeling.
As far as getting "called out", I never resent the truth; I just have such low self-esteem at this point that I know what you say to be true, and I also know the drill. As it turns out, the whole weekend may be off because the boat seems to be having problems too. My husband is missing a lot of things that need to be done and I should be there to help him-not be an additional problem; I guess that is part of the hand-wringing about ct. Standing up on a sailboat is hard enough for me; I am just frightened about the physical coordination. In truth, the last time I did this I was on dry land.
I won't be "sick" again (whatever this wd is going to be) because now that I asked my Dr. to place on my computerized records: "no opiates"... Those things don't go away, so I have nailed myself to the wall of sobriety in any case, whatever the future may bring. There were just too many "refills" hanging out there and at least I had the sense to know that, having gone through several withdrawals, I would be right down at the drugstore again as soon as I could fill something.
Thanks, both of you, for your hard honesty, and be assured that I take it as it was given, with gratitude.
Last edited by thalia45; 06-02-2012 at 08:43 AM.
I guess I should add that sometimes it takes what it takes. Robert told me a month ago? to get rid of the pills I had; I didn't, went through withdrawal, then got the Dr. to prescribe Norco. Another round... But had I not done that it would have been another ...how many years or disasters?... to have it put on my records "no opiates". If this had not played out the way it did I would be continuing right along: finishing early, doing God knows what to my life and my body...
Originally Posted by thalia45
I just don't have the strength to say no, so even as I am cursing myself now, I am glad it is done.
so what ya gonna do thalia...?
flush em, or use em. ?
good on ya for telling your doctor tho. thats a good move...
Oh Cheeky, I don't know. When I woke up this morning (because I HAVE done a rather severe taper) I could hardly walk, thus the pills to at least make me functional for today. I am posting the truth here because I want it back. I spent so many years sober, and never even KNEW about all these drugs until a serious accident left my right arm (I am an artist by profession) full of constant pain and inefficiency. Then one of the doctors gave me Vicodin and that was all she wrote.
Originally Posted by cheekysod
I know the husband will want to work on the boat tomorrow, and I think I am going to hang in there with as little as I can and still be useful. Monday, I am back in my studio, and everyone there knows my problem-it is a lot easier to be a basket case. so...I don't know, but thanks for the response.
Another thing I might add here is that I have a long-term script for Diazapam, which I hardly ever use. Resistance to drugs maybe? Because it doesn't do much for me. I don't have anxiety, and the sleep I handle with Benedryl (I suppose there must be a downside to that too?)
Thalia, this is the truth, and it's great you recognize it. If you truly won't have any access to anymore pills when these are gone, then today is probably the magic day for you. Days 6/7 are much different than Days 1/2. The question you have to ask yourself is if you want to find yourself on Friday at Day 6, or Day 1/2? I also realize today is probably the last day to quit and have a chance at being mostly OK next weekend.
You mentioned that your husband was gone all day today and you wouldn't have to hide your symptoms. But you still took something to make you "functional". You said that next weekend on the boat was the time that you really needed to hang in there until.....but now working on the boat tomorrow with your husband has turned into a priority that you need to get through, and then you'll start on Monday because circumstances will be better. I'm sort of calling you out here again, because I want you to see the pattern that I mentioned in my reply to your other thread about tapering. When you are IN it it's hard to see...but being on the outside I can see that things/days keep coming up that you need to get through...and then you'll start "later". I myself spent 6 more months after the initial time that I tried to quit doing the same thing....starting "later". But "later" never seemed to come.
Believe me I understand all about the low self-esteem. That comes with being an addict. I spent so long feeling like a big fraud....always thinking about how people's opinions of me would change if they knew what I was REALLY doing, and what was really going on with me. It's an awful feeling. But it's not who you truly are. I can promise you when you finally get off this merry go-round, your self-esteem will sky-rocket...and it won't take long. Even when I was still feeling physically yucky in the beginning, I could feel that sense of self-esteem that I was just getting through each day without using anything. Now, 109 days later, I can't even begin to tell you how much different I feel about myself. And you will too....but these pills are holding you hostage, and you need to be free.
You have to accept that you aren't getting out of this unscathed....it's the price we all pay. By trying to minimize your physical WD symptoms to almost zero, you are almost torturing yourself with this taper. I guess if this is all you have left, it will play out the way it plays out and then they'll be gone and that will be that. But you'll still be facing the same truth, and that is WD. There is something to be said about taking control and YOU deciding when it's done, instead of running out of pills and having that be the decision.
I really do wish you the best and we can all relate to what your going through. It's scary but you really can do it, you just have to make the leap. (and I also applaud you for telling your Dr., that's a huge move that not alot of people can do, so your already half way there!)
Last edited by deleted116; 06-02-2012 at 01:06 PM.
Thanks Moon. The last few posts have been a slap upside the head about what is coming if "change" doesn't happen. That said, I gave in and took another 1/2 pill and a 3-hour nap-like thing. the good part being that I broke a pattern, and with the residual energy have been straightening up the house etc.-"presentation is everything-to me and him". I already feel better, and it is that magic time of the day when I know I can do the rest of it without more "help".
(Lot to be said about naps!)
Anyway please keep posting the honesty; I know it but it is amazing to me how one can forget.
...and I CAN'T get any more opiates. Right now that is a big relief.
Last edited by thalia45; 06-02-2012 at 01:57 PM.
Well, I did get a good sleep and it should last me till 2:10 AM (odd that these should be so predictable) . this morning I plan to hang in there till 7:30 or so and (if I can walk) not take anything to help with the boat. I DO know physical exercise helps, and if I can get the "mind" to agree, we should be alright.
Thanks for all your support, Thalia45
you're doing awesome thalia. very strong.and yes, exercise helps tremendously. it's just the 'getting up and moving' part that's hard. physical exertion will help with your mental state too. just know that we're all rooting for u.
just exactly how many pills do you have left...?
seems to be a never ending stash mate.... bit of a worry... you gotta toughen up sometime or what moon says is gonna happen, you are gonna run out, when the pills run out and not when you want to...
come on girl... you gota get on to this... you are dragging it out and prolonging your misery... JUST START. FLUSH EM AND GET ON WITH IT.
seriously sue/thalia how many pills do you have.?
moon is correct, she is calling you out.. please listen.
Cheeky what have I missed here I thought there were just enough to get through the sailing weekend Surfdog
Thalia why do you have a long term script for Valium? Believe me you do not want to go from opiates to benzos
I know I'm relatively new here, and just a week off the stuff myself so I have no real right to comment. It does suck, and I was hating life for the first 3 days. Everything you've described...NOT FUN! But...there is a bright side...this time last week I was miserable, and today I am feeling amazingly good. (supplementing like crazy with b-vitamins, L-tyrosine, and still with the vitamin minerals and some natural sleep aids)...but I'm HAPPY. I don't know how long it will take for you, but I was finally up to leaving the house on day 6 and it's been better every day. I did what you did...tapered what I could from the pills I had left until I ran out last week. Right or wrong it's what I did, and it still sucked, and I don't think it made things any easier, as I'd hoped.
You can make it through. You really can. As terrifying as it all is, you can do it. I said in the post in the other thread that I was past the crying, but I have tears welling up for you. It will only hurt for a little bit, and I promise it's nothing that you can't take. If there is anything I can do...to help, be supportive...anything at all...please let me know. I owe the community here so much, you included. I remember your kind post to me and would like to offer that same support and encouragement to you.
wot you up to thalia...? you still around... come on mate, lot of support pouring out here for ya. you gotta join in tho....
any thoughts. ?
how many left. lets do a taper plan, once and for all. you can do this, invisible gave you some priceless advice, and shes just gone thru it..
The script for Diazapam 5mg is what I use (rarely) if I HAVE to put in a long day on the computer (my career is illustration) and about 3PM I start getting tremors in the right hand (my "art") hand. One Diazapam will fix that. I have no other use for it. It doesn't help me sleep, or with anxiety...
Originally Posted by surfdog
The backstory to the right arm is that I dislocated my elbow in 2004 and after 3 operations with nerve relocation etc. I have limited use of my "career" hand. Trust me on this: I have never "abused" Diazpam, which is weird since I am an addict for sure. Quit alcohol many years ago for that reason, and I am very active in AA.
But- with that accident I was given Vicodin. I knew nothing of pills at that point-not even that I could get addicted to anything given to me by a Doctor. However, I loved the "high" it gave me and thus began this, now 8-year battle with pills.
Diazpam is just not one of them-I don't know why. Maybe all that drinking up to quitting made me very resistant.
At the moment I am looking at the Diazapam only from the point of view of stopping obvious hand tremors as I get through this next week.
Cheeky, I AM SO READY FOR HELP! This conjunction of things has brought me to desperation (and now that I have a "no opiate" flag on my records I won't be going back, so how to get through this week.
Originally Posted by cheekysod
I have 10 10-325 Norco left and 7 days to get through (we leave Friday).
Today is intensive work on the boat so I took 2 just half hour ago (not from the 10-so I still have 10 left). My only other supplement to that (I won't go to the "street"-I do not want to know a "dealer" since beyond the current situation I don't ever want access to this stuff again.
To the current problem:
1. 10 pills left (I could get a few Endecet from a friend who has a legitimate script for her pain)
2. Today is the most intensive work on the boat day. Lots of running up and down the stairs to the dock, so the physical exercise will keep me busy.
3. Tomorrow I am back in my studio so I can be a basket case.
4. Sleep? Well the Benedryl is the only thing I have used. Of course because of my taper already (from 6-8 to 3-4) I suffer the usual symptoms which I hope I never forget.
What to do? With 10 left (unless I get a few Endecet from a friend) I will have to ....get down to 1? by Friday when we leave?
Try to taper through this time with some Endecet help?
Go ct after today which leaves me Monday to day 5 Friday to go through standard wd... Day 5? What is that like? I have forgotten.
I don't know. What do you think? So stupid of me to not plan this better, but maybe I did, in some way. I like being sober so much better than living with a few minutes of "high".
What do you think?
BTW Invisible girl-thanks for your post. I wish we did not have this trip coming up. I have been through this before and know I can do it, sleepless nights and all, but going on a boat on Friday? Well I am apprehensive about balance issues.
Thalia, If you have been active in AA you know what has to be done granted in a lot of AA meetings there is little understanding of pills. However substituting liquid alcohol for solid doesn't work. Opiates ans alcohol are both CNS depressants, both are sedatives. You already know how to do this use the steps. I know you remember how badly you had to want to get sober, same thing applies here. We both have had hangovers where death would have been more comfortable. Alcohol withdrawal can result in death, this just makes you feel like a bad case of flu for a few days and doesn't take as long for the mind to clear.
We are in your corner but you have to want this as badly as you did to get sober. Pulling for you girl we are here for you God Bless Surfdog
Ig , Don't say you don't have a right to post on this. Look at what you just accomplished!Any day clean/sober is an accomplishment and a gift. Be careful what you say to yourself, those are powerful messages. We put up with a lot of gruff while out their we don't need to do it to ourselves once we get clean. You are doing great hang tight Surfdog
Today is intensive work on the boat so I took 2 just half hour ago (not from the 10-so I still have 10 left).
10 pills left (I could get a few Endecet from a friend who has a legitimate script for her pain)
Thalia, I'm trying to figure out what to type here....and I want you to again know that I come from a good place. If you ever have time and go back and read my threads (the last one and the original one from September 11), you will see that I have gone through this...and also that I'm not prone to antagonizing people. I hope you don't think that's what I'm doing to you....but there are obvious "red flags" in your posts and if you truly want to heal, they need to be pointed out to you.
You took 2 already this morning? Taking 20 mg at once doesn't seem like much of a taper to me. You said you are only taking 2-3 a day, and already 2 are gone. Also, the stash really does seem never ending. You have 10 left, but the 2 didn't come from it? So where did the 2 come from then? Another stash?
On to the bigger red flag....you said that after the script is gone you will have no access. But you have a friend you has Endocet? Correct me if I'm wrong but Endocet is OXYCODONE!!!! You do not want to use Oxycodone to east your WD from Norco's!!! This I know about because Oxycodone was my drug of choice. MUCH HARDER to come off of than what you are dealing with.
I have news for you....if you have a friend that has Endocet that is willing to give some to you....then you DO have access to pills outside of your script. I think you may have a warped view of those of us who bought pills illegally. I never drove to a bad side of town, pulled up to a shady dealer, gave money and drove away with pills. NEVER. Every cent of the thousands of dollards I spent on these pills was to two friends who had legal scripts and were willing to sell them. FRIENDS were my sources. And obviously you have one to.
Again, my advice is flush what you have left. Friday morning will now bring you to Day 5, if you don't take anything else after what you took this morning. You will not be falling down due to balance issues on Day 5. You won't feel great, but you'll get through it. Sadly I don't think there is any way that you are going to flush this stash...and now it's apparant that you have access to more pills if you want them (please, please, please don't take anything with oxy in them, you will just be escalating your use....20 mg oxy is very different from 20 mg Norco).
Quitting entails more than your stash running out. When I quit, at any moment I could have made 1 call and bought more pills. And again, these were friends so it's not like I could cut them out of my life. Someone once said to me..."you have to be willing to quit even if there are pills at your fingertips". I could make a call right now and get more pills if I wanted to. I know you got yourself on a list at your Dr.'s, and that was a great first step....but now you have to realize that there are pills out there, there are always ways to get them (friends, etc.) and the desire to quit has to come before that. And before working on a boat, or a sailing trip, etc.
I want to see you do well Thalia, but I think you aren't being honest with yourself. It's not just the physical WD's that you are scared of. It's the mental. Are you truly just afraid of falling off the boat at Day 5, or are you afraid of the low motivation/depression/horrible feelings that come with WD's? Either way it's o.k. to have those fears, but be honest. Again, go read my thread....I certainly didn't have the luxury of laying on a couch the first week of WD....I had obligations, people I had to hide symptoms from, etc etc etc. Just DO this and give yourself a chance to get through to the next stage.
Today is Day 110 for me...I woke up today SO looking forward to a day trip I have planned with my family into the city. Something that I wouldn't have previously thought possible without pills. Something that would have been a definite reason for me to say "let me just get through Sunday". Instead I'm here, not a hostage and ready to enjoy my life. You can have that too....but you have to give yourself a fighting chance, o.k.?
Last edited by deleted116; 06-03-2012 at 07:24 AM.
Thanks Moon, for your post. To clarify, the 10 I have left are after this morning's count. And the friend with the Endecet is the LAST person who is not going to hold me to my promise to get off all this stuff after next weekend (she is my rep, knows everything, and wants a functioning illustrator). Really, more than anyone, she knows the devastation of this disease, having lost two sons to addiction. Very hard-nose, so believe me she would give me only enough to get through the weekend. They are script for her and she uses them sparingly for an existing serious condition, so she is hardly the person one could call a "dealer".
Originally Posted by moon6748
I plan to do the most "boat intensive" stuff today: checking the rigging, provisioning, helping with the engine problem (I grew up around a machine shop and know a lot about this stuff-in fact, it is what I illustrate). I just DO NOT want my withdrawal to ruin this much-anticipated weekend for him. (I prefer prairie-girl life myself: horses and mountains).
Anyway, to get back to the Endecet, I already found out how strong they are; 1/2 pill put me in outer space. In any case, if she gives me some that will be the LAST I will ever get from her, because she knows I mean to end this. You saw my note on calling my DR. to put "no opiates" on my computerized chart? I am serious about getting off this stuff. I do not want to go through another withdrawal, of ANY kind.
Again, thank you for your kind and understanding note, Thalia
Last edited by thalia45; 06-03-2012 at 07:42 AM.
Wow.......I did follow Moon's threads. This is the best post yet. Thalia I hope you listen.
Originally Posted by moon6748
Moon, thanks for hanging around and giving back.