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Quitting suboxone, down to 1mg
  1. #1
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Default Quitting suboxone, down to 1mg

    I have always loved vicodin and percocet, since I was 17(1998, it was the drug that just clicked with my body and personality. Opiate lovers know this feeling....I would get it from time to time, never having a steady source, sometimes a year would go by between taking some pills. I never got hung up on them. Then I was introduced to Oxy, the first couple times it wasn't great, but a year or two later when I got some and had a connection, it went bad. , then got on again during the summer and lots of work. Six months later I was an addict, and had gone through several bouts of severe withdrawel, I couldn't keep it together anymore and had to quit. I did for a few months, then got on tramadol for a few months, this stuff is worse and maybe even more dangerous. I mainly kept using it 'cause it was cheap and would subdue withdrawel. Eventually I was back on oxy for the summer, and started on methadone in the fall thinking it was a step in the right direction to quit. Not a good idea, methadone is probably the worst! I went from that to Suboxone through a good doctor, it was not good and I went into immidiat withdrawel, from my experience, no matter how good the doctor, they don't know enough about this new powerful drug and even with their best intentions, they only have the information in writing, they havent' taken the drug, they don't know the full effects. My doctor told me I could quit at 2mg or 1mg and I would have no withdrawels. I know that is not true, I think I have only found 1 or 2 posts saying they had no withdrawel stopping at 2mg. I need some help from an experienced person who has gone through this! I am commited to getting off this completely, I feel so ********py all the time and so useless. I have found that heavy exercise helps dramatically, as long as I can get out about every day it really helps. However, I live in Idaho where it is cold and snowy, and although I love this, it is not the best climate for opiate detox. There is nothing worse than getting cold sweats in cold weather. I go hiking to ski for my workout, and I'm not sure how this will go when I quit and feel terrible. I am staying with my parents and have their support which is great, but I am thinking maybe it would be good to try and go somewhere warm for a little while while I quit. I can't wait to get over this, I almost want to just quit cold turkey to get this over with, but dont' want have the morale or energy to tough it out. Should I just be patient and continue to taper until there is nothing left? I also have a bad sleeping problem, which makes the w/d that much worse. I have had tests done, there is nothing they could find. I think this is why I loved Oxy so much, I got such a restfull sleep from it. I need help from and experienced person that had done the taper with success. Thanks

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    Obscura3 is offline New Member
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    Hey man, let's chat a bit here. I have been an Oxy addict and have used Subs to get off--now completely clean so believe you me, it can be done. And I understand the whole being cold when it's cold paradigm--that is a pain, I understand, but really, all pain is relative now having experience the luxury of full blown withdrawal.
    Here's what I did. I kept tapering and tapering down well past .5 mg a day, probably more like .25 mg a day and made sure to sleep late on a weekend, past the typical time of dosage. And that point, just realize you're going to feel some withdrawal symptoms but they will be minor and usually transient. From what I recall I have hour long bouts of it, which I would often combat with exercise--and it sounds like you're already exercise inclined.
    For about 2 weeks, the symptoms waxed and waned--the cold, the insomnia, the odd sneezing thing, the joy in the bathroom...and then, I woke up on Day 14, truly 2 weeks after jumping off subs, and there were no symptoms at all...and I haven't felt any since. So you can do this--you've already gone damn far, brother, just a little more and then there's wonderful, former life in which pills do not dictate the day...good luck and keep us posted

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    Cats Meow is offline Banned
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    Default Pow

    Pow skier, read Robert's Sub therapy recipe here, it should answer most of your Q's.
    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

  4. #4
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for getting back to me, I appreciate your help.
    I ran out Sunday night, I was okay but Monday afternoon after the script was called in, they told me they were out till the next day. I immediately got that panic that sparks withdrawel, I couldn't handle the feeling at all! Lucky for me I called back and the tech had found some for me. I took 4mg right away, and didnt' feel good for about 40mins. I feel horrible if I'm not active for a couple days, and that's what happened, I tweaked my knee and haven't been able to get out. But I am feeling better now and ready to get back to the taper. 1 mg per day for another 6 days, then to .5-.75 mg for 5-7 days, then .25 mg for 7, then start skipping days. Exercise is huge, if I didn't have something to do and that makes me happy, I dont' think I could get through this. Let you know how things are going in a few days or so....

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    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cats Meow View Post
    Pow skier, read Robert's Sub therapy recipe here, it should answer most of your Q's.
    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    That is for someone using it for 1 month, I need a very detailed list of exactly when and how to taper.

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pow skier View Post
    That is for someone using it for 1 month, I need a very detailed list of exactly when and how to taper.
    How long have you been on sub ? You stated that you took 4mg Monday? What is your current daily dose? If you are at 1mg per day then the tapering plan you mentioned a couple of posts ago looks pretty good.1mg per day 4or 5 days.Then .75 ,.50,.25.Once you are at .25mg per day skip 1 day,then 2 days,then 3 days,4 days and then stop.If you are at 4 mg per day then you need a plan to get down to 1mg.We would be glad to help you if you would want our help but we need to know your dosing history first.

  7. #7
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    I am now at 1mg per day, I took 4 mg because I had gone a day and a half without any and was feeling so bad. Prior to this, I was at 1.5 mg for two weeks.

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pow skier View Post
    I am now at 1mg per day, I took 4 mg because I had gone a day and a half without any and was feeling so bad. Prior to this, I was at 1.5 mg for two weeks.
    You have a good plan by reducing 25% every 4 or 5 days.Then skipping days as suggested. It might be challenging but be strong and know that it is possible.Most of the w/d symptoms you have will be mental when you get to the final tapering.I know because I have been there.NA meetings really helped me with that.I was addicted to pain pills for 5 years and used suboxone and Roberts tapering plan and I have been totally clean for almost 6 months.It was rough for a while but its worth it.Your plan is basically the same as Roberts and it should be the easiest way to get off the suboxone.Good luck to you.

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    babydaddy724 is offline Member
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    Whats going on Pow... I just recently quit methadone and now on suboxone. I know it is hard to stop. And I also know the frustration because my sub doctor tells me " just stop after a few weeks and you will just have minor body aches for a couple days"... not true. It all depends on the person. It seems to me like in your mind you are telling yourself you can't do this... When the time for me came and wanted to get off methadone so badly I just was very firm with myself and I just knew I could do it without fearing the aftermath. A point in time will come where you will get so sick of stressing about it and you will find the strength to do it. I know this because when I was at the clinic there where people there that have been going for 5+ years and tried quitting countless amounts of time with no avail. Its all in your mind.. You need to find and/or change something personal in your life that will summon the powers that need be. I never thought I would be off methadone and would become a so called "lifer"... I just became so sick of being there and got so hard on myself about it I was willing to face those withdraw symptoms. Trust me it will happen.

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    Obscura3 is offline New Member
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    Hey my man, how we feeling today? I just want to reiterate that we are all pulling for you; however, in the future try to keep the dosage consistent or less than previously just for the brain and body's sake. That one day shouldn't affect anything, but the goal is diminishing our reliance on opiates so we need to be dedicated to weening those receptors off it by giving them incrementally less when we can. Nonetheless, you're doing great and have the right attitude about attacking this thing. Stay active; keep the mind in a positive place and know, truly know, that this dark period of your life does have an end.

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    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    It actually hasn't been too bad suprisingly, I've felt fine. Those two days I just ran out and went too long without, that really screwed things up. But I'm back on track.
    The main concern for me, is the fear of the unknown, I'm terrified that it's just all gonna go to hell when I completely stop
    I thought it would be much harder to stay at 1 mg, it's really not. I'm just going to try and keep that positive attitude, maybe it won't be too bad at all? But at least I'll be ready, and it won't be as bad as I build it up to be.
    ******** this way of living....

  12. #12
    dago77 is offline Senior Member
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    Whats up Pow, I could not have said it any better...******** this way of living!! Ive been reading your posts brother. Keep your taper going, and get off all this stuff! Even if you do feel like ******** for a few days....be tough bro..you can do this! And keep ...******** this way of living in the front of your mind the whole time!!! Hang in there chief!

    Ryan

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pow skier View Post
    It actually hasn't been too bad suprisingly, I've felt fine. Those two days I just ran out and went too long without, that really screwed things up. But I'm back on track.
    The main concern for me, is the fear of the unknown, I'm terrified that it's just all gonna go to hell when I completely stop
    I thought it would be much harder to stay at 1 mg, it's really not. I'm just going to try and keep that positive attitude, maybe it won't be too bad at all? But at least I'll be ready, and it won't be as bad as I build it up to be.
    ******** this way of living....
    I was scared to death to get clean too.It was my "on" social switch so to speak. Your thought process changes when you get clean though.The worries you have now are mind games.Just do what needs to be done.GL ..MM

  14. #14
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Hey pow,

    Good for you. You hang in there and keep tapering, and you'll be clean and back in the land of the living!

    I understand about the fear, and I totally sympathize. I think your expectations can really color how you experience things, so it's important to try your best to keep perspective. Things ARE different when you're clean, and that can be alarming. I remember being totally dismayed sometimes after getting clean. For me, it was mainly having very strong feelings that I wasn't anticipating, sometimes about issues I didn't even realize I cared about. When you've blunted your feelings with drugs for a time, those feelings can be kind of scary when they come back. But you can totally get through this kind of thing. If you feel tripped up by something, try to recognize that it's just one thing--not your whole life or the whole world falling apart--and trust that you will learn to cope again. Whatever you do, don't give in to the temptation to use again when you hit a bump in the road. You'll learn to manage. The mind (as well as the body) is amazingly resilient, and you will adjust to whatever comes your way. Take a deep breath, re-focus, and take it one day at a time. You'll be fine!

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    member123 is offline New Member
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    i am starting .25 sub today what should i expect

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    Quote Originally Posted by member123 View Post
    i am starting .25 sub today what should i expect
    Hi Member can you give us a little more to go on ..
    We may be able to help a little more...
    Drug history ???
    how much ??? how long ???
    That kind of stuff...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

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    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by member123 View Post
    i am starting .25 sub today what should i expect
    Starting at .25 mg ? Or starting at a quarter of an 8mg pill which would be 2mg?

  18. #18
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    OK musicman That was funny we just did it again...LOL

  19. #19
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    OK musicman That was funny we just did it again...LOL
    LOL ..a little scary...lol...Melinda is right.We need more info.

  20. #20
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    I'm having trouble getting any lower than 1.5-2 mg. per day. I was at 1 mg, but that was because I was forced to conserve. When I ran out it felt so bad, I took a bunch right away. For over a week I've been back at 2mg or less. I feel frusterated that I backstepped, but I was really feeling badly. I have been lowering the amount each day, but still not back to the 1mg, it is such a little amount, I can't imagine going any lower.
    Is it okay or harmful to have a small number of vicodin on hand when going through the hardest withdrawel? Will this prolong things? I don't plan on having more than 5 or 10. I have heard that if you have a couple here and there it can ease some of the bad pain. I can't imagine it would do anything more than ease body aches, the buprenephrine is so much stronger. Has anyone had experience with this, also, how well does clonodine work when in w/d? I was taking clonodine before I started the taper, just to help sleep, but after a couple weeks it made me really lightheaded and tired, I couldn't do anything. I guess I shouldn't be using it until the withdrawel gives me high blood pressure, (that's what the medicine is, it lowers blood pressure) Any experience in this area would be great, particularly from people who got down to 1mg and less or sub, what was it like for you, what was the hardest? What would you have done differently? Anything else......???? Thanks Went hiking with my dog, then snowboarded down, it was great!
    I'm a

  21. #21
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I can walk you right through the taper process for when you're under 1mg. It's a combination of tapering and skipping some days soon.

    If you want my help let me know. You would reduce your daily dose by 25% (use a single edged razor to cut pills) and reduce every four days to allow for the half life. Otherwise stay at the same dose for four days.

    When you get down to .5mg or less we can start scheduling days to skip. You can be off these entirely relatively painlessly if you will follow my suggestions. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Yes, I do want your help. I have heard it should be pretty easy, as long as you follow directions and strictly taper. I will follow the guidelines and trust you to help me through this, I will let you know when I get back to 1 mg.
    thnx

  23. #23
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pow skier View Post
    Yes, I do want your help. I have heard it should be pretty easy, as long as you follow directions and strictly taper. I will follow the guidelines and trust you to help me through this, I will let you know when I get back to 1 mg.
    thnx

    Just let me know when you're ready. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  24. #24
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Default back, and ready to be done!

    For everyone out there, I'm back and ready to contribute my experience of tapering Suboxone. I have been at .5 mg or less for about 5 days now, the last couple days I've been at more like .25 mg.
    I have around .25 mg left and think I will need two more 2mg pills to finish my taper comfortably. I am not feeling great, but it isn't that bad. However, I cannot imagine skipping a day, it's very difficult to skip my nightly dose. ( I take one small dose around noon or after, then another after 9 pm)
    When I do skip my pm dose I don't get any real sleep and have the chills and sweats, I end up having to take a dose around 4 am and then finally get some rest.
    From reading different taper stories, I saw that some people could quit at 2 mg after long term use, without any bad w/d. I feel like some people are more prone to bad withdrawel symptoms, I feel like I am one of these lucky ones! Anyone else think this is true???
    I'm so close, I can't wait to be over this.....

  25. #25
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    If you're feeling badly at any time while at your current dose then you're not ready to drop to a lesser dose. If you do you'll just feel worse when you drop. Some people need longer at each level than others do.

    If you're deciding on your own to skip the evening dose that is why you feel bad late at night. It's not the subs doing anything to you, it's the way you're doing it. You DON'T skip any doses at this point, you take the medication as you're supposed to. DON'T skip any doses ever until you are instructed.

    We never tell anyone to jump off at 2mg. Don't know where you got that from. I tell people here all the time that is the WRONG way to do this taper. You need to take your medication correctly and you probably will do just fine. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  26. #26
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    I was just saying that I have read stories of people quitting at a higher dosage, w/ little side effects. Everyone's body reacts differently and I'm frusterated it's not easier on mine.
    I am at about 0.25 mg/ day. The doctor's told me to start skipping days, and so did you! I'm at the end of my taper, I'm supposed to start skipping. I split this .25 mg(tiny sliver) into 2 doses, one in the a.m-one in the p.m., if I were to take the entire dose in the morning, I would feel ********ty later, that's why I split it up. I am trying to decrease by cutting it down to about .10 mg before I start to skip days. Does this make sense now?
    I emailed you Robert, you told me to start skipping days at .5 mg.
    I don't feel that I am ready yet, so I am lowering my dose even more, then try to skip some days.

  27. #27
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Yes I did say that. That's why I get upset when everyone emails me asking me to predict the future instead of posting on the forum. I always tell everyone that each person is different. That's why we post on the forum and give advice as symptoms occur. But I receive numerous emails every day from people I don't even know wanting me to tell them what to do all the way down to zero. When that happens I just tell them a generic plan as that is the best I can do. There's NO way I can possibly know how each person will react to anything until it happens. You need to go more slowly and don't skip any days until you feel better. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  28. #28
    Anonymous Guest

    Default I kinow it's frustrating

    Hi-This is Linda and I finished my taper on April 18 . I tapered to .25 before I started the skip and believe me I know how anxious you are to get it over with . It took over three weeks before I could make the skip and you really have to be as comfortable as you can be before you skip or before you reduce again to .12 , One other thing that will make a difference with the skip is the dosing frequency. I know everyone is different but for one thing ,we are all addicts and even the Suboxone became ritualistic with the measuring ,cutting, taking it and it providing relief from w/d much like your DOC . I think by your dosing twice a day and having problems with your evening dose it will be very difficult to do , I don't know what Robert thinks but I would take .25 once a day at the same time and feel OK on it before I'd even think about reducing or skipping .The calendar or where you "should " be doesn't matter to our little orange friend, I went through about six calendars before I gave up on that. You have come really far so just take your time here at the end. It is mentally challenging in itself. Just my thoughts but I would definatly talk to Robert about still splitting your dose.Good luck

  29. #29
    Pow skier is offline Junior Member
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    Linda, you are too right! I totally agree with how the suboxone dosing becomes a ritual and addictive behaviour, just like my DOC! I have worried about this in the past and have been surprised it hasn't been brought up before. I think this adds to the mental side of the addiction, and makes part of the withdrawel much harder.
    I take my doses around the same times each day though, and am trying to get to a spot where I am only taking it once per day. I have decreased my dosage a lotin the last two weeks, it hasn't felt great, but I can deal with some discomfort here and there. As long as I eat well and get some good excercise each day, I can get by with about .25 mg. or less. I realize that I do need to get used to this dose before skipping any days, I've pushed my limit on the amount I can get away with. The other night the doctor's office was supposed to call in a one more pill for me as I had run out after my morning dose, they left and must have forgot to call it in. I thought I would be okay until the next day since I took all .25 mg at 11am, but I became very uncomfortable late that night, and it got pretty bad until I was able to get the pills around 4 pm the next day.
    I can't believe I felt so badly after less than 24 hours, it just goes to show how strong this stuff is and how much more I will have to stretch this out! I did want to comment on the schedule/calendar thing; In the past a calendar never worked for me and I did give that up, but since getting under 2 mg, having a strict schedule has really helped me lower my dose, I couldn't have done it without setting a strict outline of my dosing. I had to cheat a little here and there, but overall it got me from 2 mg to .25 mg in less than two weeks. I draw out a big blank sheet with a calendar on it, then cut up my pill with a razor and put my doses out on each date in the order of my taper, it really seems to help me stick with the program.
    Also, I don't have the luxury of stretching it out for three weeks, the doctors expected me to be done at .5 mg, so it is what it is! I have one 2mg pill left, my plan is to split it up into 12 doses, getting a little smaller with each dose. If I feel okay halfway through this, I will start to skip days. I am sick of not living my life, not having an appetite, not feeling good, I am getting more and more determination to fight through this, and am able to handle being a little uncomfortable. Thank you all for your help and support, it's great to have a place where you can relate to others and get advice from people that have actually taken suboxone and completed a taper. Thanks again....
    Last edited by Pow skier; 05-07-2009 at 11:42 PM.

  30. #30
    Anonymous Guest

    Default You will do fine but .

    Hi - This is Linda. I agree when you get way down to the skip the calendar is good but before that it just made me feel like I wasn't doing it right -I just needed longer on .25 to feel oK.You said you are splitting your last 2mg into twelve doses . If you have enough than I really recommend skipping . I think its a very importantant mental battle but whatever you choose at this point , it doesn't really matter . What matters is when you get there YOUR DONE! Thats what I finally said -just I'm done -no more -come what may i will take it- Just be resolute, no retreat , when its over it's over .Just KNOW it's done .So make sure to set yourself up fr sucess since there is no turning back Linda

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