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First, here is my backgound with opiates: >>>>>> addiction 1999-2001. I did 20-30 bags a day and when I quit cold turkey, I did it completely alone in my house. It was a living hell, but I sat in my home alone for two weeks in excruciating pain until I was able to slowly start resuming life.
The next 8 years, 2001-2009, I did opiates a total of maybe 10-12 times recreationally with no problems.
In 2009, my girlfriend of 7 years suddenly left me with no warning and this made me spiral into deep depression. I started using opiates more and more until November 2009, when I began using them everyday. I use the 15mg oxycodone pills, I never allow myself to take more than 6 a day (90mg) but my goal was no more than 4 a day (60mg).
I recently decided to quit for many obvious reasons.
My determination is strong. I have been doing a self-administered taper. I am doing this alone.
Here is my progress so far:
10/29...60mg, 10/30...45mg, 10/31...37.5mg, 11/01...30mg, 11/02...30mg, 11/03...26.25mg, 11/04...26.25mg, 11/05...15mg, 11/06...15mg, 11/07...15mg, 11/08...7.5mg, 11/09...7.5mg, 11/10...0mg
today is the first day I haven't used opiates in a year.
My question is what is my best course of action from here on out. I refuse to attend meetings or go to counseling. I'm not knocking people who take that path, but it is not for me.
I have some valiums that I've been taking in 5mg doses during this taper (sparingly) as needed. I do not want a new addiction to Valium.
I have 2 2mg suboxone pills (and access to more if I wanted). Does anyone have advice about introducing the suboxone into my detox? Should I just forget about it? I do not want to get addicted to suboxone and don't want suboxone maintenance. I would only use it for a short time in decreasing doses IF you think it would help me reach my goal instead of making it harder.
I personally wouldn't use the suboxone, you did a pretty good taper. You'll still have WD without a doubt but nothing like you have handled before. Body aches, restless leg syndrome, difficulty sleeping and lack of motivation is what you're looking at. Just use the valium at night to help you relax and sleep. Hot baths and a valium before bed will go a long way along with the thomas recipe which is on these forums somewhere or you can google it.
If you do find yourself needing the suboxone I suggest trying to hold out as long as possible before taking 2mg. As I am sure you know suboxone has a long half life and that 2mg should bring you to a bearable state for a couple days, then depending on how you feel after that go from there. If you're still feeling pretty bad maybe break the 2mg sub in half and take 1mg and go from there. Like I said before though no matter what you'll feel the WD, but if you handled that pretty big >>>>>> detox I have faith that you'll make it through this
Last edited by ddcmod; 11-11-2010 at 12:40 PM.
Thank you very much! This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I will hold off on the suboxone for now and see how things go.
Last edited by ddcmod; 11-11-2010 at 12:41 PM.
Not a problem. Keep my updated
I agree you sound like you got this under control Im going to put up the Thomas recipe that may help a little...
Originally Posted by Schwaglioni
keep us posted..
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
Yesterday, my first opiate free day, I took 3 5mg doses of Valium and actually did sleep a little bit. I'm experiencing moderate WD, but nothing I can't handle. Everytime I start to feel discouraged, I look at my list of reasons for why I want to quit and I think about all the things I could buy with the money that would go towards oxycodone. This helps my mind stay focused on the goal.
I am going to start the Thomas recipe today and see if that helps.
I will try to avoid the suboxone altogether, but will keep it as a backup option.
I'll let you know how things go.
This is day 2 free from opiates!
Sounds like you're doing great! Your WD pain isn't going to get much worse, and once that's over you just have to deal with the lack of motivation. As I said before though it's obviously nothing you can't handle. Thanks for the update and keep up the good work!
This is exactly 48hours since my last dose of oxycodone and I am feeling absolutely horrible.
I was unable to leave the house today so I did not pick up any of the things I needed for the Thomas recipe.
It always seems to get worse at night. I'm not sure why.
It's not just the physical symptoms, it's the headgame this drug causes during wd. I find myself rationalizing going out and getting a few pills and it's scary because I was so determined.
I'm starting to just not care anymore. I feel like I'm being torn apart.
All I did so far today is take 10mg valium and that didn't help much at all. I have an intense craving for opiates.
It's really hard because 1 phone call and I can have pills in 10 minutes.
Totally not worth it bro. Trust me. All you're doing is setting yourself up to experience the same cr@ppy 48 hours again later on down the road. We both know this is a high that is impossible to keep up, so why try??? Just to blow a bunch of money and be going thru this same exact experience a month or two months from now??? Ultimately, stopping now is the best thing. Just try to stay strong and realize your 2 full days in. Day 3 will be about the same and day 4 will start to feel so much better. Just stay strong and stick to your guns and always remember, if you do this correctly now, you will never ever have to do this again! You can bank on that to buddy! Keep posting and keep strong!
Oh so true. I know I have to quit and I've tried so hard and I don't want to start over again.
Originally Posted by azul diablo
I just drank as much beer as I could keep down and I feel slightly better for right now. I know this process is a mental and physical roller coaster.
I had a rough night but I rode it out and did not get opiates. I took 15mg of Valium yesterday
Wd really plays tricks with your head, you really need to be strong to resist all that.
This is day 3 free from opiates.
I just passed the 72 hour mark.
I think I feel some improvement over yesterday at this time.
I never took any suboxone yet at all.
I didn't take any Valium yet today, but will take 5mg soon.
You're doing really good man congratulations! Good job on fighting off the urge of both pills and the suboxone. As I'm sure you remember the mind tricks stick around even after the discomfort subsides, just keep pushing through that with activities, whatever they may be. You're absolutely right about the night time problems, I took Xanax and hopped into a hot bath until I started dozing off, then hopped into bed. You got this though, the 72 hour mark is the big one. Thanks for keeping us updated, let me know how the next few days are going!
Thank you for your encouragement and support Yez! You know how difficult it is.
Yesterday, I only took 5mg Valium. I'm trying to taper off those too. With my addictive personality, I could quickly become dependent on them and I don't want that.
I'm trying to avoid the suboxone so that I don't prolong this process and end up withdrawling off those later.
I still feel wd, but it's getting better now and I think Im going to try and get up and leave the house today for some sunshine and light excercise like a walk or something.
This is day 4 free from opiates.
Yeah benzo addiction scares me haha, luckily they just make me tired so they never hooked me. Leaving the house today is the best possible thing to do. You're right when I know how difficult it is, the whole reason I'm on these forums is to try and encourage people to NOT make the mistakes I did. I relapsed so many times I can't count, and when I should have gotten out of bed and went for a walk, I stayed in bed. You've been on the right path and have had the right attitude since your first day. Just keep that up and keep checking in!
Originally Posted by Schwaglioni
Also, being on day 4 it's time to look at that sub like any other opiate. You've past the hardest part, suboxone now would just add more time onto recovery. You beat this once before, and you just beat it again.
Last edited by ddcmod; 11-13-2010 at 02:18 PM.
I just passed the 96 hour mark and I have both feet firmly planted in the future!
There is great improvement over yesterday!
Yez, you were right about leaving the house... Getting some sun and light exercise was the best thing for me today! Also, thank you for responding to my original post advising against the suboxone unless absolutely necessary. That would have just dragged this thing out when I just want to get it over with.
Obviously suboxone is helpful in many cases, but for me right now under my specific circumstances, I didn't need it. Thanks again!
Tonight is my last planned 5mg dose of Valium. Going to try making it without any more pills from here on out.
And I am viewing that suboxone like any other opiate right now. There's no way I'm going to take it now when I'm so far along.
I'll keep posting updates to let you know how it goes!
As time goes on, I'm sleeping a little better for a little longer.
I'm still in wd but there is noticable improvement.
I know that my brain needs some time to repair itself.
I'm going to get out of the house again today for some light exercise.
From here on out, I'm going to try it without any Valium or other pills.
This is day 5 free from opiates.
Yeah it all comes back over time, it's good you understand that, some people go the 72 then wonder why they aren't able to run marathons yet. Since meetings/therapy isn't your thing the best thing for you now is to stick with what you've been doing. Stay healthy and busy.
Yesterday I spent the day enjoying the sunshine, took a walk and then cut the grass. Last night I slept pretty good, just a little rls.
I didn't take anymore Valium or any other pills.
I'm only experiencing very mild wd symptoms right now.
The cravings are starting to subside and I'm going long stretches of time without even thinking about pills.
A big thank you to Yez and everyone else who offered advice and support through the detox!!
This is day 6 free from opiates!!!!
I'm still in wd but it has leveled off at a managable point.
Even though wd gets better as time goes on, at the same time you're getting worn out. It's like being a soldier fighting a war 24 hours a day for days and days and days. As time goes on, you get so sick and tired of fighting the war and you just want to take a break from the fight. But with opiate withdrawl and detox, there is no time off to rest. This a war you must fight 24 hours a day until the war is over.
I have not taken any more valiums or any other pills.
I'm slowly trying to resume life and want to try and go to work tomorrow even though I don't want to yet.
This is day 7 free from opiates!!!
Awesome man! It is a war and I won't sugar coat it, sometimes it can take quite some time to feel normal again. Glad to hear you're still swinging, just keep at it the way you are and don't give in to the itch. Try and avoid stress as much as possible, or any trigger in general. I've been lortab free for around 3 months now, and I still have to take it 1 day at a time. Today is a terrible day as a matter of fact but it definitely good to hear how good you're doing. Every success story offers hope for others
Originally Posted by Schwaglioni
Hey Yez, congrats on the 3 months!
Originally Posted by yezdegerd
You're right about taking it one day at a time. It's overwhelming to think about never using opiates again, but if you just concentrate on not using opiates today, then you can do it.
I started tapering on 10/30, so I've been in a constant state of withdrawl for about 19 days now and I'm so sick of it. But I am so determined not to start over because if I relapsed right now, It would be months before I had the strength to start over.
It's hard to avoid stress and triggers when work has been piling up at my job for the last week and people keep calling me trying to sell me pills, but I will never surrender to these pills. I refuse to get "chumped out" by a bottle of pills!!!
This is day 8 free from opiates!
Schwaglioni ! God bless you too!
you have an awesome attitude!!
hang on to it - reallll tight!!
pray for strength when you
feel tempted! I KNOW! God hears..
and WILL answer!
you're in my prayers!
Hi classique mom!
Thank you for the kind words and thank you for including me in your prayers.
I have been praying for strength and God has answered my prayers. I feel a level of determination that is unstopable.
I have dealers calling the house and I tell them all the same thing... That I'm not interested anymore, I quit, don't call here anymore. It feels so empowering, like I finally am in control of my own life again.
I can feel that my brain is starting to attempt to repair the damage I've done.
This is day 9 free from opiates!
The days seem to be getting easier for me. I'm still struggling at night though. Yesterday I was doing ok during the day, but as soon as the sun started to set, I started feeling really weird and then I got slammed with intense cravings for opiates and feeling really anxious and emotional. My rls was bad too.
I'm not sure what it is about night time. Maybe it's psychological. Maybe there's more too it. I don't know. But nights are always harder.
It doesn't matter though. I don't care what this drug throws at me. I'm not going back.
This is day 10 free from opiates!
Nights are the toughest, it's the end of the day and your body gets worn out extremely fast during recovery. I hate RLS, aside from the anxiety it's hands down the worst part. A glass of wine, xanax and a hot bath at night was my cure.
Hey Yez, yes I do like to take a long hot bath or shower at night and drink a beer or 2, but I don't want any more benzos, especially since I would have to go to people who also have opiates to get them.
Tonight, to celebrate my 10 days clean, I drank 10 shots and that was a bad idea because now that I'm drunk, it makes me want to use pills more. I want opiates so bad! I'm not going to get any, but I'm just saying that I think tonight would have been easier without the shots.
The physical symtoms are over for the most part, but the mental and emotional symptoms are still really bad.
I'm having horrible mood swings, one minute I'm ok and the next minute I'm crying hysterically. I'm having constant intense cravings for opiates. My mind can't function. I'm so tired of it all.
I still have those 2 suboxone and on one hand I know they would make me feel better, but I'm worried that would start the cycle again.
Then I think I'll go get valiums, but those people also have opiates and I really don't think Im ready to be that close to my drug of choice.
This is day 11 free from opiates.
This is where it gets tricky. I could never get myself past this part of the detox. I'm on subutex ( 3 months ) because if I relapse again I lose my family because I can't handle my addiction without them. I wish I had better advice for you bro, the only suggestion I have is the one thing you don't want to do, therapy or NA. It's the one thing I never did due to a string of events ( car broke down ect ) but if it's what you need to get better than you might want to consider it. Just keep staying strong, if you find yourself getting into the car to go get pills, consider going to an NA meeting instead. It might just save you. Best of luck brotha.
Originally Posted by Schwaglioni
P.S subs are nothing like other opiates in my opinion. Plus they are "stronger" which means if you take 1 or 2 then the depression might just hit you harder afterwards. You just gotta get those endorphines flowing again.
Thank you Yez, so you think that taking suboxone now would be a really bad idea? Or just better if I didn't but not that big of a deal?
It's just that I have them sitting right in front of me and Im just so tired of feeling like sh!t.
There's no way I could bring myself to flush them to get rid of them.
I'm not ready to consider na meetings but if I find myself getting in the car for opiates, I would consider it then.