[guitarman57]

I am prescribed 120 Percocet and 120 MS Contin per month for severe back pain. I generally run out after 2+ weeks and rely on tramadol to keep withdrawals at bay.

In the past, I have generally taken quite a few tramadol to maintain, however, this month, I've cut down drastically (150 - 200 mg per day) with no noticable withdrawal symptoms.

I have been on Vicodin and/or Percocet for about 3 years now and am wondering if it is indeed possible to wean myself off all of these drugs with the tramadol>

Thanks

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

I am prescribed 120 Percocet and 120 MS Contin per month for severe back pain. I generally run out after 2+ weeks and rely on tramadol to keep withdrawals at bay.

In the past, I have generally taken quite a few tramadol to maintain, however, this month, I've cut down drastically (150 - 200 mg per day) with no noticable withdrawal symptoms.

I have been on Vicodin and/or Percocet for about 3 years now and am wondering if it is indeed possible to wean myself off all of these drugs with the tramadol>

Thanks

Hi guitarman
Yes it is possible to wean yourself down...
I was addicted to oxycontin, oxycodone and vic's..
I was taking them for about three years...
I quit the oxycontin and stabilized on the perc's and vic's and did a taper from there...I have been clean now since Aug..
If you want to know more just ask, I would be happy to share any info I have.
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[guitarman57]

Thanks, Melinda. I was wondering if it is possible to wean off using only the tramadol. I can't seem to regulate my intake of the percs and oxys, but it seems as if a couple of trams take the edge off very well.

[melinda7.5]

Hi guitarman
I couldn't control my intake of my pills either...LOL
I guess thats why I had to quit...
If you can just take a couple of tramadol to take the edge off that would be great...
I'm not sure how much you have had in your system in the last week or so.but when I did my taper I felt like I had the flu.
Are you going to try to stop taking pills altogether or are you going to stay on the tramadol for your pain.
Let us know how you do..
Talk to you later, Melinda

[guitarman57]

Melinda:
I would like to stop altogether. I have good (rare) days and bad days with my back, but living the rest of my life on pain medication doesn't sound attractive at all. I know I take too much (running out every month up to 2 weeks early), so I'd best do something about it now.

The past week, I've taken an average of 300mg of tramadol (6-50mg pills) per day to stave off withdrawals. Haven't had any narcotics in over 2 weeks. This morning, I realized I hadn't had any tram in over 12 hours and didn't feel any signs of withdrawal. I waited a couple more hours and took 3 trams, although I wasn't feeling bad. Now I'm wondering how long I could go or if I'm actually off the pills with no bad effects. I have a doc appt. on Monday where he renews my perc and oxy scripts. I'm afraid not to go, but I'm thinking I may not need them.

Thanks

[melinda7.5]

guitarman
I agree with you about doing something now. When I quit my drugs I was going thru my script in a week....Then I was out buying them...OH man did I spend some money on drugs...
your really in a tight spot on your doctors appt...I know what I would have done when I was taking drugs I would have got my script and took them all and then I would have been pissed at myself..Thinking cr@p I have to do this all over again...
you really are doing great if you can wait 12 hr before taking any pills...
Don't give up and keep us posted on what you do ...
It helps when you can get on here and be accountable for what your doing..
It just makes you think about what your doing a little more.
anyway keep us posted on how you are...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[guitarman57]

Melinda:

Thank you - I found a taper schedule for tramadol on this forum and realized that I have enough trams to complete the program. I am very surprised that I don't seem to have any withdrawal symptoms at this time. I have been on Vics and Percs for over 3 years and have taken upwards of 10 percs each day that I have them when I get a new script. (When they are finished, I start on the MS Contins!) I thought I'd be writhing on the floor by now...

This situation sort of reminds me of when I quit smoking (17 years ago). I tried the patches (then very new), thinking that they would never work. By the time i realized that I hadn't smoked in over 10 hours, I knew I had it licked. Perhaps by not thinking of the drugs constantly, I'm helping keep the w/d's away?? Weird..

Anyway - thanks so much for your responses and encouragement. I'll keep you posted.

[MaisieC]

Hi guitarman,

So you are just taking the tramadol now, not the other pills? And you're not having w/d symptoms? That's great! I'm glad you found the taper schedule. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's conservative and should help you get off the drug with little or no discomfort. It's best to taper off tramadol slowly if you can, because jumping off it suddenly can cause seizures in some people. It sounds like you're doing really well. Hang in there, and please let us know how you do.

[guitarman57]

Well - I started on the tramadol taper today; 200 mg this morning. It's about 12 hours later and I'm getting a few butterflies in my stomach, but nothing at all worth any concern.

I'm still debating about keeping my doctor's appt. tomorrow. If I fill the scripts he will give me, I'm probably off to the races for another month. It surely seems as if this is the time to go for it, but I'm not sure I'm ready.

I'll see what tomorrow brings and post again soon. Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Well - I started on the tramadol taper today; 200 mg this morning. It's about 12 hours later and I'm getting a few butterflies in my stomach, but nothing at all worth any concern.

I'm still debating about keeping my doctor's appt. tomorrow. If I fill the scripts he will give me, I'm probably off to the races for another month. It surely seems as if this is the time to go for it, but I'm not sure I'm ready.

I'll see what tomorrow brings and post again soon. Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement.

Hi guitarman
I understand...I of course hope you don't go to the doctor's but if you do let us know...couse if you do... I know, your going to be mad at yourself...
and if you do it enough times you WILL get sick of it...
so keep posting and you WILL get this done...
Talk to you tomorrow
Melinda

[ImDone]

This is my first time posting here or anywhere for that matter.
I was reading how someone was tapering off the Tramadol with no withdrawl symptoms. WOW! I tapered off of it and whiel I was doing it thought this is great no withdrawls!
Now I am feeling it though. I am on day 2 of no Tramadol and while I do not have the sweats and voiding issues, I do have a HORRIBLE case of insomnia (hence the time - 12:36 am and I work at 4:30 am) and restless leggs. I also have a slight flu-ache feeling in my legs and arms. I keep getting "chills" down my spine, I have NO energy and my heart keeps racing. I am hoping I am close to the end of this...please someone tell me I am. I can't take it and like many others NO ONE knows of this.
I was just fired from my docotr because she found out that I had filled some Vic's from another doctor while filling the Tramadol script from her. So, I can't even go to a doctor. I just want to make sure, above all else, that these feelings are normal and I will be ok. Please someone give me a day of when I will start feeling better and possibly when I might start sleeping again. I need a day (Friday for example) to look forward to. I don't even have the energy to play with my kids or walk up the stairs.
Thank you for any information or encouragement. I have no desire to take pain killers again, so i am not dealing with the mental desire or addiction, just the physical!

Thanks again...

[mclawson]

Originally Posted by ImDone

Please someone give me a day of when I will start feeling better and possibly when I might start sleeping again. I need a day (Friday for example) to look forward to.
Thanks again...

Obviously it can be different for everyone depending on the amount of medicine taken, the length of time you were medicated, other drugs used, etc. but from my "um... very recent" experience, I would say that a full 7 days after the last pill went in is when you can expect to *start* feeling better, and not completely useless.

I think that things get slightly unpredictable after the first week with everything from continued insomnia, to flu-like symptoms and major stomach problems, to in my case, the worst dehydration of the 21st century, but that the restless legs (which to me feels less like restlessness and more like the most horrible pain imaginable) seem to let up a bit, at least to the point where you can start getting more than two hours of sleep each night.

I spent my first week laying on a couch complaining to everyone who was within earshot, and to be honest, I probably would have preferred the horror of going at work, at least to keep my mind off the situation for those eight hours a day.

My advice, although it seems slightly "beginner" compared to a lot of the recommendations that I have read on this site involving a ton of home remedies, is this: In the morning (which could very well be 4am depending on your insomnia), drink 2-3 cups of strong coffee and take a long, super hot shower. Next, allow yourself the luxury of taking up to 8-10 OTC tylenols for pain through the day and as much tea/vitamins/protein shakes/nutrition supplements as you think will help. Definitely look up the other posts to see why and how to take these things and even if they just help out mentally, then role with it. When you get to sleep time, place a specific number of OTC tylenols beside your bed (but not more than the maximum suggested daily dosage) and work through the night with them as needed.

I like numbers, and so if I had to rate how terrible each day was in terms of pain, feeling uncomfortable, not getting sleep and so on, using a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the worst, 1 the best) I would rate my first ten days coming off of ~200mg cold turkey as follows:

Day 1: 5 (remnants of last dose still in system)
Day 2: 10
Day 3: 10
Day 4: 9
Day 5: 8
Day 6: 7
Day 7: 9
Day 8: 7
Day 9: 5
Day 10: 5

As you can see here, and from comparing similar anecdotes, there are bumps and it isn't the case that you consistently feel better each day (my seventh night was miserable), but it is encouraging to see how better it is now at day ten, than the first couple days were. In my opinion, you "generally" feel slightly better in some way each day. Haha, as I write this post at 5am after about an hour of sleep today (but with hardly any pain, and no stomach problems at all).

Good luck with your recovery. I noticed that I have begun laughing out loud (after almost two years, it feels strange) and I can think clearly for longer periods of time which makes my post "problematic-situation" all that much more exciting to plan. I haven't felt this optimistic about the future in... well..., in about two years.

-LM

[guitarman57]

Melinda:

I did wind up going to the doctor and filling my scripts. I had hoped that I could use the meds as they were intended to be used - and so far so good. I have enjoyed pain relief.

However, I am not foolish enough to think that I'm all cured. I realize the danger I'm putting myself in but I don't have that need to stop yet. I know when I do, I will try to taper once again. As of now, I've taken only what I've needed for pain - not sure why I haven't gone off the deep end yet.

I will post more later as the days progress. Thank you again for your concern and the help you provide on this board.

[melinda7.5]

Hi guitarman
I did that more times than I can count...LOL
I did eventually get sick of it tho.
I just could never take them like I was spouse to...
Let us know how it goes and if you need help, well be here.

Have a good day !
Melinda

[ImDone]

I am feeling much better today. This is the first "good" day I have had in a while.
I ended up at the doctor yesterday for a UTI, however, I did not take the script for pain medication as offered to em! YEAH!

Mentally, I have now desire for pills, but physically I think my body still does.
The worst part of this whole thing is the leg cramping, restless-legs feeling and the pain I am having in my abdomen/pelvic area. I have read other posts about having bad diarrhea, but I am having the opposite problem (for more than 3 days now) and I think that is why my abdomen/pelvic area hurt so much. I mean painful to laugh, cough, sneeze or anything else for that matter.

I am hoping I will be able to sleep tonight as I am really tired.

Please keep me posted on your progress and I will you on mine!
Congrats on your recovery!

[MaisieC]

Hi ImDone,

I'm glad to hear you're beginning to feel better. The restless legs thing is very unpleasant. For leg cramps, you might try some mineral supplements: be sure you get something with potassium and also magnesium. (If you can't afford to buy the supplement, you can get lots of potassium from eating bananas, but that might make your constipation worse. Sigh. This stuff really messes up our bodies...) Some people find that magnesium helps with the restless legs symptoms as well. Also be sure you're drinking plenty of water, because dehydration can contribute to leg cramping.

For me, the restless legs (and arms, and everything else) was the worst at night, when I should have been falling asleep. Once I got to sleep, I was pretty lucky about being able to stay asleep. If you have any sleeping aids like Ambien, or any anxiety medication like valium, Xanax, klonopin, you could try taking that at night before you go to bed. Not to plan to stay on it for a long time, but just to get you over this hump. It will start getting better on its own, but you'll feel better physically and emotionally if you can get some sleep.

Regarding your constipation, that is unusual. Most people feel constipated when they're using and then get the runs when they quit. If it's still bothering you, drinking lots of water is one way to help. Also try eating some high-fiber foods like whole-grain breads, popcorn, some raw veg, a nice crunchy green salad (which will also help with hydration). That should help you get more regular. I know that's a painful condition, and I'm sorry you're going through it. If you can get some exercise (probably the last thing you want to do), that will also help. Even going out for a walk can help your body begin to straighten itself out.

Good luck and take care. Please let us know how you're doing.

[ImDone]

Thank you everyone! I am doing much better today. I still don't have a lot of desire to do much, but the creepy crawly thing is almost gone. I am beginning to sleep better and I am starting to feel ok again. The pain in my pelvic/abdomen area is gone and my body is beginning to regulate itself. I am still having a lot of trouble with the leg cramps. I have those throughout the day - charlie horse types. I am taking your advice and taking potassium and magnesium...hoping that will kick in and start working soon!

For the first time, I am starting to "want" pills. Even when I was taking them I never really longed for them. I just took them because the doctor told me to stay ahead of the pain. Then when the pain was gone, I stopped. Now I find that I want one so I can have energy and feel good. I don't have any, nor any way to get some, so I am safe. However this is weird for me to be wanting them.
Any advice to get over the wanting phase?

Thanks to all of you for giving me some great tips and advice. It is easier knowing there are others out there that are living a great life without pills - it is encouraging!

I will continue to pray for each of you to maintain in your recovery, as I am doing for myself!

Thank you!

[guitarman57]

Melinda:


well, I'm back on the tramadol taper after finishing my scripts early again. I didn't have enough tramadol for the complete taper as outlined on this site, so I made my own schedule. Today is the 2nd full day without any narcotics (8 days without percocet), and I felt bad when I got up, but took 200 mg of tramadol and am starting to settle down a bit.

This is it - I have a dr. appt. on April 4 and I'm not going to keep it. Hopefully, I will be feeling fairly normal by then and won't need to see him for anything (I can deal with the pain).

Thanks again for the help on this board - I will keep you posted.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Melinda:


well, I'm back on the tramadol taper after finishing my scripts early again. I didn't have enough tramadol for the complete taper as outlined on this site, so I made my own schedule. Today is the 2nd full day without any narcotics (8 days without percocet), and I felt bad when I got up, but took 200 mg of tramadol and am starting to settle down a bit.

This is it - I have a dr. appt. on April 4 and I'm not going to keep it. Hopefully, I will be feeling fairly normal by then and won't need to see him for anything (I can deal with the pain).

Thanks again for the help on this board - I will keep you posted.

Hi guitarman
I really have done the same thing every month I would think OK I can do this.
but I chose to go out and buy pills on the street in witch I ended up spending thousands of dollars on them...
I finally got sick of that and tapered off and quit..and it sounds to me like your at that same point....Just sick of it ....
well get you thru this...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[guitarman57]

Day 3 without and I feel simply horrible. The shakes and sweats are hard to conceal and I don't know if I'll be able to work (calling in sick is not an option)..

The tramadol isn't doing much at this point - I'm just hoping it doesn't delay the inevitable.

Thanks for the inspiration. I've finally told one person of my predicament - although she doesn't live here, she's willing to listen.

Thanks again

[truckerbob3007]

As one who is winding his way down from a full blown opiate addiction, i sympathize with you on what you are going through, i personally could NOT handle withdrawal, period, i had to go the subuxone route or i would have continued to use..Bottom line, i hope you are able to get through this somehow, if you choose to go the way you are going now, it will be a very difficult week, but know that we are here to offer you any kind of support and advice that we can. In the long run, you will be so much better, i know that doesn't mean a d**n thing right now, but it is TRUE, God Bless and know you will get through this.

[guitarman57]

Well - made it through work today - my partner mentioned at the end of my shift that I didn't act like I felt very well today! Ha - if she only knew!

Went 12 hours without a tramadol and had some good hours and some bad hours - took 100mg about 30 minutes ago and am feeling pretty good. That's my quota for today on the tram taper.

All in all, I feel much better than I thought I would, but don't see an end in sight yet. (Having back pain - expected since that was what I was taking pain meds for - diarreha, cramps, sweats, shakes but not horrible. I did manage to get the next 2 days off so i will see if I can get to feeling better before returning to work.

Will post more tomorrow.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Well - made it through work today - my partner mentioned at the end of my shift that I didn't act like I felt very well today! Ha - if she only knew!

Went 12 hours without a tramadol and had some good hours and some bad hours - took 100mg about 30 minutes ago and am feeling pretty good. That's my quota for today on the tram taper.

All in all, I feel much better than I thought I would, but don't see an end in sight yet. (Having back pain - expected since that was what I was taking pain meds for - diarreha, cramps, sweats, shakes but not horrible. I did manage to get the next 2 days off so i will see if I can get to feeling better before returning to work.

Will post more tomorrow.

Hi guitarman
your doing great...I will be gone till wednesday....Robert can help if you need anything...I will talk to you then...
hang in there...
Melinda

[guitarman57]

Thanks. Got to sleep easily last night, but woke up around 2 a.m. with terrible restless legs - took some Valerian root and that helped a little - very shakey this morning, but not horrible. Legs are much better.

Still don't know what I'm going to tell my doc at my next appt. He'll want me back on something for pain - I don't want anything except motrin (which doesn't do anything).

Once I'm off opiods, what are my choices for this horrible back pain? I'm supposed to have surgery, but can't afford it in the forseeable future.

Thanks

[guitarman57]

Well, I thought I was on the other side last night before bed and as soon as I turned out the lights - wham! I tore the bed apart! I did that for about an hour and a half before I got up and read for another hour. I was finally able to sleep fitfully after that, but woke every hour on the hour. I did a few shots of Nyquil, but it didn't seem to phase my discomfort.

Very shakey this morning but settled down after about an hour. Very anxious feeling in my stomach and a general feeling of disorientation this afternoon. I go back to work tomorrow, so I'm hoping for some more stability by then.

I've been taking Valerian Root and vitamins along with the Nyquil and am having my wife go out this afternoon to get some of the vitamins off the Thomas Recipe list. Perhaps that will help some more. Couldn't come up with any valium or benzos, but since I'm on day 5, I should probably steer clear anyway.

Goin for the gold this week - please keep fingers crossed!

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Well, I thought I was on the other side last night before bed and as soon as I turned out the lights - wham! I tore the bed apart! I did that for about an hour and a half before I got up and read for another hour. I was finally able to sleep fitfully after that, but woke every hour on the hour. I did a few shots of Nyquil, but it didn't seem to phase my discomfort.

Very shakey this morning but settled down after about an hour. Very anxious feeling in my stomach and a general feeling of disorientation this afternoon. I go back to work tomorrow, so I'm hoping for some more stability by then.

I've been taking Valerian Root and vitamins along with the Nyquil and am having my wife go out this afternoon to get some of the vitamins off the Thomas Recipe list. Perhaps that will help some more. Couldn't come up with any valium or benzos, but since I'm on day 5, I should probably steer clear anyway.

Goin for the gold this week - please keep fingers crossed!

Hi guitarman
Hang in there...trust me you will be glad you did this...things should start to turn around from here...Ill be back on wednesday to see how you are doing...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Well, I thought I was on the other side last night before bed and as soon as I turned out the lights - wham! I tore the bed apart! I did that for about an hour and a half before I got up and read for another hour. I was finally able to sleep fitfully after that, but woke every hour on the hour. I did a few shots of Nyquil, but it didn't seem to phase my discomfort.

Very shakey this morning but settled down after about an hour. Very anxious feeling in my stomach and a general feeling of disorientation this afternoon. I go back to work tomorrow, so I'm hoping for some more stability by then.

I've been taking Valerian Root and vitamins along with the Nyquil and am having my wife go out this afternoon to get some of the vitamins off the Thomas Recipe list. Perhaps that will help some more. Couldn't come up with any valium or benzos, but since I'm on day 5, I should probably steer clear anyway.

Goin for the gold this week - please keep fingers crossed!

You should be beyond the worst of this very soon. Stay in touch. I will try to help any way that I can. Following the Thomas Recipe is a great plan. God bless.

[13ghosts]

I don’t believe in God, but finding a thread like this makes me believe in something.

I was going to start a new thread, but this seems like the place where this belongs. This is only my second post here, and I don't feel like I was completely forthright in my first one, so please let me know if I am off base by going down this road.

I read with great interest Guitarman's dilemma, because I am in much the same boat, but have not yet taken the leap. I also feel for Imdone.

Years ago I was on a discussion board for opiate addiction—not surpisingly, I cannot remember the name--it helped me to eventually get off methadone via buprenorphine, which was much discussed in the forum as a controversial cure, and then finally approved for use by the FDA. Immediately, I found a rehab and doctor that used it. After being on methadone for three years, I went through a thirty-day program (yes, in Malibu, wouldn’t you know) and I went cold turkey for almost ten days there without needing anything other than anti-seizure meds before I started finally feeling really ********py. I stunned the docs, and I was amazed too, bracing for the worst from methadone withdrawal. But I had put on a hundred pounds on methadone, so I had plenty of fat to store it away. Once the withdrawal symptoms started to raise their collective and ugly head, that’s when they started me on the bup. I stayed on it for about ten weeks, weaning down, and then stopped. I probably did this too soon, but I just wanted off the merry-go-round. I spent two weeks feeling truly deathly ill, but once I was out of the woods I felt blessed to have only the runs for the next five months. Praise Jesus, right?

Why was I on methadone? Because I had been severely addicted to vicodin and couldn’t take time off my six-figure, 60 hour a week job to help myself. Going on methadone was a lot better than running around and lying to doctors, and my life got better. But I realized I could not stay on it forever. Frankly, I was amazed I managed to get clean, but I felt great, and more importantly, was grateful. I didn't want to return to that lifestyle ever again.

Cut to three years later and I develop severe pain in my right knee, and then the left. No OTC drug alleviates the pain. I ask the doc for something NOT narcotic. He gives me ultram. It works.

Then I start reading about the ultram being just as addictive as vicodin; some say it is even harder to get off of. I get paranoid. The orthopedic surgeon who sees me for my knees is alarmed that I am taking 1 or sometimes 2 50 mg ultram a day. He tells me to get off immediately like I am some kind of junkie. At this point I had been taking it for a few months and probably could have gotten off—and just gone ahead with the surgery. But I’m working too hard and don’t relish the idea of knee surgery, so I forge ahead and decide to cut down. When I did, I felt like ********--and the pain in my knees returned. So I resigned myself to taking a few ultram a day until I could have the surgery. And I had to keep reminding myself I wasn’t a junkie at 2 ultra a day because 1) I was in pain; and 2) because I knew what being a junkie really was (more on that in a moment).

A year goes by. Then another. I am up to three, sometimes four ultram a day, and lord almighty, racked with guilt. But I am open with my partner about it, telling her that I’m neither proud nor happy about getting hooked, but it could be much worse. I think to myself, at least I am not a lying, hiding hunk of ******** (been there, done that), and am honest with partner. And I tell myself I have to be on this stuff because when I stop the pain is still there, and so is the withdrawal sickness.

Then, last fall, someone casually offers me a vicodin, and I take it. And, as they say, the rest is history. Soon I was back on vicodin, though nowhere near where I was when I was addicted before. But I started taking it along with the ultram. First a couple a day for a few days, then none for a month or two, then back on again, then off, slowly ramping up to daily use. I build up a tolerance. I want more. I complain to the doctor that neither of these drugs last long, and he gives me ms-contin. Now I am on all three at the same time.

Oh yeah, and taking a xanax or ativan almost daily after three years of using 30 every 6 months. The stress and unhappiness with the job, the economy and fear of losing it, losing the house, losing everything. Well, I have a good reason to start taking it every day, right? So I see myself on a road to nowhere, and I am driving the bus.

If you're still awake and reading this, I am now at the point where I have not taken ultram in about a month, but I am taking the vicodin (Norco, 3-6 a day) and the ms-contin (60 mg, one to two a day). And half to whole xanax or ativan almost every day. I’m really pissed about the benzos because they were going to be my ticket off the painkillers when I was at that difficult point of weaning. Now I have to come off of those first so they can be efficacious when I am truly in need.

Did I mention that I am no longer honest with my partner? She has no idea that it has come to this, though she sees all the pill bottles. And because of my past, I don’t want to tell her for fear that the worrying and pressure to stop immediately will be unbearable.

When I try to stop these drugs I am reminded that they are there to quell a real pain, but every time I do slow down, even that pain in my knees now seems dwarfed by the creeping onset of withdrawal which I have been through more than a few times in my life and, justifiably, have an intense fear of. And then there is the shame of being here again, feeling helpless, hiding it, having no one to talk to, blah blah, boo hoo. So I have my days when I overdo it. The thought of being addicted again haunts me and consumes more and more of my thoughts. Just a few years ago I had no worries like this and I thought life was great. Now I hate myself for hiding this from my family, I hate the feeling that I failed, that I am on a hamster wheel that I cannot get off of. And that I should have learned.

Of course, I can get off it. But I work like a dog--this is why I did not have the knee surgery in the first place and ended up here--and feel that I cannot let up on my performance for an instant or I will be out of a job. Part of this is paranoia, part of it is an excuse, part of it is true. Every time I try to taper, I start to feel like ********, more work piles up on my desk, and a couple of pills miraculously make me "whole" again. And all the while the voice in my head is telling me I am a complete and utter failure and cannot do this without God and steps and all that. (I was in NA/AA for four years and though I took away some good things from it, much of that indoctrination comes back to haunt me in the worst way, as religion is wont to do).

As I mentioned at the start, finding this forum, and this thread in particular, is like finding the closest thing to God for me. Suddenly, I do not feel alone. I read these painful posts, nodding my head, filled with empathy and hope. I, too, think that I can probably get back to 1 or 2 ultram a day, if I tried, and eventually down to nothing. I am always formulating an escape route in my head (get off the benzos completely, then the ms-contin, then taper the vicodin by switching back to ultram, then taper the ultram with the benefit of the benzos and then….voila!). Yes, it’s a long and circuitous route, perhaps it could work…But the voice in my head says that’s impossible, and it’s not good enough, that "half measures availed us nothing," that I don’t have the strength to do it, and so on and so on. And so I continue with even more negative behavior.

This thread has allowed me to see that the glass can be perceived as half full. I am not taking 40 (yes, 4-0) 10 mg vics a day as I did in the past. I am not on 140 mg of methadone a day. Yes, I am abusing painkillers, but I had a reason to get on them in the first place this time (in fact, my knee is throbbing as I type this, having taken 4 norco in the morning and 1 ms-contin this afternoon—a good day for me, drugwise), and it is probably that neurotic voice in my head that keeps me from going completely overboard. So I need to grateful for where I am, take a deep breath, and plan for the taper, as Swanney says, “To see me through the long night that lies ahead.” I just need to hear the familiar voices and thoughts of folks who have been through it, who are going through it, to encourage me, because I cannot go back to NA/AA (not putting it down, but it is not for me), nor can I continue on this road alone. I have quit before, coming from a much worse position, and I can do it again—and I think can do it without rehab, which I cannot afford monetarily or time-wise anyway.

I am on the edge of my seat here, and flushed with empathy for Guitarman, and Imdone, and the advice of Melinda and others. Thanks for giving me an ounce of hope, which is a start. With it, I just may be able to follow the same path some of you have taken and are taking now, just as I can get my own sh*t together.

I apologize for the long and rambling post. It all came out in single gush of pent-up anxiety. I know this probably should have been a new post, but I wanted to let all of you know how good it is to find you here….and took forward to what is in store here in the future.

U

[guitarman57]

Robert:

I have been tapering using Tramadol and am down to my last 2-50mg tabs. I took 2 tabs this morning and have been able to get by the last few days on only this amount.

Do you have a suggestion as to when I should use the other 2 tabs? Should I wait until I am really uncomfortable or do you think I'm ready to jump off now. I am on day 6 with no opiates whatsoever and the worst remaining symptom is severe insomnia.

Thanks

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by guitarman57

Robert:

I have been tapering using Tramadol and am down to my last 2-50mg tabs. I took 2 tabs this morning and have been able to get by the last few days on only this amount.

Do you have a suggestion as to when I should use the other 2 tabs? Should I wait until I am really uncomfortable or do you think I'm ready to jump off now. I am on day 6 with no opiates whatsoever and the worst remaining symptom is severe insomnia.

Thanks

You've used them tapering down so far ... just spread them out as you have to use them if you must. I KNOW FOR A FACT though that it would give you a great feeling to flush them and watch them swirl down the tolet. It's a fear rush and exhileration rush at the same time. Then don't ever use again.

You've got enough time in at this where you should start feeling better in a matter of a few days or so. Not well but better. Sleep is always the very last thing to get normal again so don't worry about that right now. No one ever died from missing a few nights of sleep or I would be long dead. I still don't sleep since getting clean in 2002. But I used for 35 years too. Just relax. You'll be getting better soon. And I really would flush those nasty tramadol. I'm serious. Let me know if you do it. It's a reservation if you keep them and a reservation is a relapse waiting to happen. Make your commitment and stick to it. God bless.