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Oxycodone Withdrawal and Methadone Treatment
Oxycodone Withdrawal and Methadone Treatment
I was hoping that somebody would be able to lend me some advice. I have been on and off pain medication for 8 years, having broke my leg badly playing college football and suffering severe chronic osteoarthritis in my knee. I have not been on them for 8 straight years. I would have two years off here and there before it would start acting up again to the point where I could not function like a normal person. My doctor finally put me on to Pain Management. My doses were increased substantially. I was put on Roxicodone - 15 mg Dose 6 X Day = 90 mg of Oxycodone. This is the program I have been on for the past 8 months. I was going to say screw it and just go through the withdrawal as I have in the past. However I was never on this high of a dose. I have been on this current dose for 8 months now. I have a new job and can not miss work because I am "sick" from coming off the medication. Once, about a month ago, I went 24 hours without a dose and I became fairly ill - cold/flu symptoms, restlessness, muscle spasms, sleeplessness, etc. It was awful. I still went to work but it was tough.
My doctor told me to just "ween" myself down. A week and a half ago he gave me 90 Tabs and said you have two weeks to ween yourself off. If I could not ween myself off I would have to go to outpatient treatment and detox. He suggested Suboxone which I learned WILL NOT get rid of the withdrawal symptoms at all supposedly. I would still have to suffer for a week or two through the symptoms. On top of this, most of the outpatient treatment centers around here have a certain number they are allowed to prescribe. IS THERE ANY TRUTH TO SUBOXONE NOT ELIMINATING WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS?
I was also told that with my 90 mg per day dose, suboxone would not help me much as far as coming off of the medication. I called around and got some fairly sound advice (This is the part I am wondering about if any of you have any experience with this):
I was told that because I can not miss work because of the withdrawal and being "sick" and because of the strength of my daily dose, my best bet would be to start METHADONE TREATMENT. I was told that I would go to the clinic daily and receive my dose then on a daily basis. It would not only keep me from withdrawing but also would help with the pain that I suffer.
While writing this a Doctor contacted me regarding the Suboxone. I was told that he could stop Withdrawal Completely through close monitoring. I would be able to contact him 24/7 and if I started to withdraw he would instruct me how much to increase the dose of suboxone. He admittedly stated that if I am concerned about the pain continuing to be a problem that Methadone would most likely be my best avenue as it has a much stronger pain relieving opioid.
I am wondering if anyone has had success with Methadone or Suboxone. The pros and cons of both medications, and which is most likely to help with the withdrawal symptoms. I appreciate any input you may have regarding these medications to subdue the symptoms of withdrawal.
Stay away from the methadone. I don't know who told you that either won't help with withdrawal but they should go back to school, it's what both medications are intended for. Also both medications do help with pain, suboxone is used as a painkiller in some situations along with methadone, however most doctors don't prescribe either. Your best bet is the suboxone, and yes it can get rid of all your WD symptoms but you'll want to use it short term, meaning it's best to start at the lowest dose possible where you would stabilize for the first 3-5 days then slowly taper down 25% every 4 days, then a day skipping process begins ect. Robert_325 has a thread on here about it and would most likely help you taper down when he's available. The goal with subs is short term though, around 2 months. This allows time for your brain to heal and start producing dopamine again normally while still being able to function daily. The doctors however tend to start you at a high dose ( 12-16mg ) when really you could start between 2-4mg and feel fine.
Methadone is a synthetic opiate and a heck of a lot harder to come off of. Not only that but it's a pain in the A having to go get your dose everyday. If you want my honest opinion though, taper with the tabs he gave you. You're going to feel some WD symptoms yes, but if you stretch them out and only take them when you really need 1, you can do it. Don't make a 5/4/3/2/1 taper or anything like that, just take them as needed and take ONLY what you need. Start with 1, you wouldn't believe how much 10mg will help WD symptoms even while you were at 90mg a day. I'm gonna assume he gave you 10mg ones, if he didn't then he needs to. At the end of those if you're still struggling then get some 5mg ones and keep stretching those out. The goal is to go slow and steady. Saying 2 weeks or you'll need a hardcore drug like suboxone is retarded. I took the suboxone route and regretted it. I listened to a doctor when I shouldn't have. Suboxone is a far stronger drug than roxi, and if not tapered as fast as possible can cause worse WD than your 90mg dose. It could mean the difference between being out a week, or being out a month.
Both meds will help with the withdrawal symptoms. Whoever told you sub won't stop w/d was wrong. I got off a long methadone addiction by starting sub and 30 mins. after my first dose, all symptoms were gone. Methadone will also get rid of w/d, but methadone is a daily grind. You have to go to a program every day, follow their rules, give regular urines and it is the hardest drug of all to ever get off of. As far as painkilling, methadone is much better but you will build up a tolerance. Sub is a pretty poor pain reliever tthough it is sometimes used for pain. The problem with sub is that it is pretty near impossible for any other pain medicatiton to work at all as it blocks brain receptors. You need to do your research. Methadone is for long term or forever use. Sub can be use in the short term and after your tapered off you can assess your true pain. As for witthdrawal from you DOC, they will both stop them.
ahhh idk what to do
Wow I had no idea. My dr won't give me any more and I am out tomorrow unfortunately I think I may need the methadone the suboxone appt is soooo expensive! Idk what to do :[
I think metthadone is not a good idea unless you are ready to be on it for the long haul. It is horribly addictive and you will find people on the program who have been on 30 years and longer (I was one). Of course, I can't tell you what to do and I know sub is super expensive (greedy doctors and pharm companies).... Whatever you do, make sure your eyes are wide open. Google both drugs. Learn all you can.
Nyg is exactly right. if you do go methadone then plan on being on it for the long haul. I know opiate withdrawal sucks, but methadone is a whole new ballpark. Nyg said it right when she said nobody can tell you what is best, but do your homework before making the leap. Do you have insurance? I had to call about a dozen doctors before I found one that took insurance, most are cash only crooks. prices do fluctuate though, and if you don't have insurance you can tell them you need subutex, it comes in a generic and far cheaper
thank you :]
My suboxone dr called and agreed to let me pay half instead of full price up front :] my appointment is set for 10 am tmo. Do any of you have chat capabilities? I'd love to be able to have a Convo with you guys....
The guy doesn't accept insurance its 650 for first visit but he's letting me pay half. He seems like great guy and gave me his cell # I can call 24-7 and he will instruct my dosage if it isn't strong enough to stop WD ..... I'm comfortable with this guy I talked 1 hour on the phone with him and he's letting me pay 1/2 up front so its 325. Also future visits will only be 250 once a month its not bad for peace of mind n my pain dr wasn't much cheaper. I'm just so worried I'm gonna WD even with the suboxone......any words of wisdom? LoL soooo nervous suboxone won't "work" on me :/
Now I'm nervous....i just found out that there is a waiting period....how long after my last dose of roxicodone do i have to wait to take the first suboxone? I'm really nervous that i won't be able to take it tomorrow if i take my last dose tonight? Does anyone know how long?
Dont take anymore. If you're seeing him tomorrow at 10am you should be in withdrawal. oxycodone ir has a short half life so it's roughly 12-24 hours before you can safely take it. it differs for each person though, I would start withdrawal within 6 hours. don't be nervous about the suboxone either, when I was induced I was nervous too but it actually made me feel fantastic
listen mate, stop being nervous. i was a wreck too when i switched from methadone to subs,
i didnt wait long enough, coz methadone has long half life. i suffered.
you need to not take anything alright. nothing.
and you should google the COWS worksheet. clinical opiod withdrawl sheet.
its not a time thing, its a symptom thing.
then you should only take 2mg at a time, and wait. that way you start out on a low dose,
subs WILL STOP YOU HANGIN OUT I PROMISE. IT WORKED FOR ME.
LATER MATE. GOTTA GO
In a way I guess I am excited. This doctor seems over cautious if anything and he seems to have a PHENOMENAL patient-doctor relationship. He gave me his cell number and has called me 2x already. He told me he does not want to keep me on the Suboxone longer than needed and he wants to start me slow with a really low dose and if I still have withdrawal I will call him and he will "instruct" me on how to slightly increase the dose until I have just the right level of it in the system to stop all symptoms of withdrawal. I am not worried too much other than some of the more serious affects of starting the "Subs" too early. I took my last dose at 7:59PM EST and I feel good about quitting. For now at least haha ask me again in a few hours! I also take ambien and I do not know if I am allowed or should take an ambien tonight or if that will also affect the time I could start the Subs. Does anyone know if I could take ambien tonight or will that also affect the time I can take the Subs?
My doctor scared the heck out of though. He said it can be anywhere from 24-72 hours after my last dose as everyone is different. I usually start to WD from the Roxycodone after 6-8 Hours and by 12 Hours I am WD'ing pretty bad I would say. I get restless and feel like I have a cold/flu, diahreah and all that but I never throw up really. I definitely do not sleep when I am WD'ing....16-24 hours after, it becomes almost unbearable so I am hoping that because it is IR and because I feel WD set in so quick that I can take my first dose in 24 hours.....
I am just trying to stay positive but I am going to be scared as heck when I take that first dose, that it will be too early or whatever. I am also, as crazy and dumb as it may sound, writing a little book on my experience. I am a pretty good writer and it keeps my mind off of things. If anyone would like to read the first few chapters let me know, it is pretty good I think and I would enjoy the feedback
nope you shouldnt take the ambien, they will mask the wd's slightly, even tho you are used to them
like i said, its a time thing, and if you are hangin out real proper by 10 hours so be it.
just be warned mate, dont take it too early. i promise you will regret it. i did. went into instant precipitated withdrawl, off methadone, and it lasted 2 days. yeh.
dont wanna scare you, only make sure you wait.
do not take any shortcuts and this will work out just fine for you. sounds like your doctor has it sussed, starting you on a low dose. trust me, subs are way stronger than you think..
i was thinkin, no way 12mg is gonna touch the sides, hmm, scuse me kiwi, they are strong as....
patience matey, patience.. its gonna be ok.
I am on my 2nd dose. What a miracle drug! My doctor is awesome.....follows same schedule as the Robert35 guy....started with 2mg and 2hours later 2mg and I now have ZERO withdrawal symptoms!!!! AMAZING .... I really can't believe how well these work .... Cheeksy ya gotta read the beginning of my book! Its great! Also my dr told me I can take 1/2 an ambien at bedtime....im so happy right now....
Cheekys what is your email? Idk if you are allowed to share on here....but anyone whose posted on my thread Thank You any God Bless I would love to chat with each one of you there's something comforting in ppl who understand what we've all gone through....
So you got subutex ( Buprenorphine )? That's what you wanted in the first place. Should be a white circle pill. Much better than suboxone in my opinion. A lot of people, myself included had bad reactions to the naloxone in the suboxone, mostly irritability but it went away when I switched to Buprenorphine
Originally Posted by MattND85
Yea it is the Subutex....Working great so far....I took 2 mg pills 2 hours apart for the first 2 Doses then took 4 more mg throughout the day when WD started creeping back in....Once I level it out and find a comfort level for a dose I am going to maintain it for about 2 weeks and split doses then "taper" according to the DR. Like I said same schedule Robert35 recommends I may have worded it funny but its exact.
Don't go over 8mg. If you're feeling anything past 8mg it's "ghost pain" or the sub itself. They can cause sweats which is also common during WD. Also at higher doses it can make you feel lousy, leading you to believe you need more. Trust me brotha, I started out at 16mg like most other people duped by my doctor until Robert told me I'm feeling lousy because of my high dosage. I tapered down to 2mg and feel 1000 times better. The less you look for WD symptoms the less you'll notice them. You'll go a couple days feeling pretty good, then you might experience some PAWS, after that just start tapering down. The less time you're on it the easier it will be to come off of. Even with suboxone you'll still notice WD when you're done and hopefully you'll follow Roberts taper plan when coming off, doctors are well known for telling patients to make the jump at 2mg, do that and you'll find yourself on the toilet for a week
NO YA DONT GET PAWS WHILE ON SUB.
its called post acute withdrawl syndrome, and ya get it way after ya get clean, not while you are still on opiates.
hey matt, how come ya went up. if 4mg was doin the trick for ya.
definately less is more, and you might try goin back to 6mg, and ya dont take it thru the day willy nilly, you either dose once a day (which i did, coz i was thru a clinic, and never had any problem, huge half life)
or twice a day, but not too close to bedtime, coz it screws with your sleep patterns.
but if you are takin it a few times a day, its called, addictive behaviour.
and ya want out of that dont ya
hahaha, and i told ya to stop freakin out ay, on the sub. yup. i knew you would be ok, long as ya waited long enough it works alright.
all the best
I still was getting symptoms my dr told me induction period is to find right dose....i ended up at 11 Mg to fully rid the symptoms. He wants me to take 12 mg today and Monday he's going to lower my does n start maintenance around 8 mg per day. After 4-8mg I was still getting symptoms....after 11 I feel great with no cravings or anything. Today I take 3 doses of 4mg each .... Monday at my appt he's going to ween me down n I should be off them completely in 10-14 days. I can't complain at 12mg I feel like new person I am doing great....no urge to abuse meds n no cravings. I can't wait to start the maintenance and seeking on Monday.
I thought I should stay at 4mg first day too....my dr told me not to stop dosing every two hours until symptom free. I called him about my dose and instructions. That's what he wants me to do till Monday. 3 Doses of 4 mg each....12mg per day for 2 days and then ween me down Monday over a two week period....its working thanks for your help cheeksy!!!! God bless
I don't want to burst any bubbles here and am glad you're feeling great but 3 times a day is too much and 12 mgs. a day is a really high dose. Sub is super strong - much stronger than morphine even though you don't feel it the same way. It has a half life of 36-72 hours so the 3 times a day isn't a good idea or necessary. I have only ever taken it once a day and it does the trick. I had an addiction to methadone that lasted over 30 years. Doctors don't know very much about this drug. They only need to take an 8 hour online course and then they can perscribe it. I have rarely if ever seen a doctor do this right and I've been coming tto this forum for a long time. If I were you, I'd bring the dose down lower really quickly and never dose more than twice a day. It's a waste of drug and if 12 mg. works, so will 6.
I'm going to do 2- 4mg doses then....thats 8mg a day for today and tmo. I should be fine with that. I don't see needing more than that today it feels like its lasting much longer...
Much better plan, Matt. Even the pharm company thatt makes this drug only advises it as a 2x a day drug. It stacks up in your system, the more you take the more you will have to get rid of. I don't say don't listen to your doctor at all, but I guarantee you will get better advice here where people have been through it. Doctors might be nice and compassionate as can be, but they are notoriously ignorant when it comes to sub.
Yes you do. Subs don't stimulate like other opiates do and since you've been relying on opiates for dopamine there might be a period of depression until your brain starts pushing them out properly again.
Originally Posted by cheekysod
yez, hook line and sinker bro, knew you couldnt resist. ....
once you are OFF SUBS.
then come and talk to me about paws.....
Didn't you just relapse? Not sure what your deal is but you posted about how rough coming off subs was, I don't see your need to Chase me around the forums trying to disprove whatever it is I'm talking about. Without name dropping there are plenty of people around here that will verify paws being possible but if you feel the need to try and bust my chops at every corner feel free m8, just don't get teary eyed when I shoot it back
Originally Posted by cheekysod
ah yeh bro and 3 weeks clean and OFF OPIATES, HOW YOU DOIN.???
Originally Posted by yezdegerd
just dont be dissin subs any time ya get the chance,
and teary eyed, i dont think so yez
post acute withdrawl syndrome PAWS
i rest my case.
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