[supermomhelp]

I have been taking pain medications for a little over a year now for serious back issues. Within the past two months or so it escalated from a normal dose of 4 7.5 a day to close to 8 or 10. My husband recently approached me as he found my receipt and bag in the garbage from my medication and totally outed me. He had no idea that the doctor had prescribed me so much and I had been embarrased to admit it. Our relationship has suffered extremely to the point of impending divorce within the past 6 months but when he found this out it was like a sense of relief washed over me. He has been very supportive and wants to do anything he can to help me overcome this.
I am a stubborn woman, VERY stubborn. I am also well educated, working in grad school to be a shrink...I know how this thing happens. I know that this will always be a battle for me and I feel like a total failure to my husband and child. I have tried a few times before to get off of this Vics but only made it 5 days tops and relapsed. I will be honest, the W/D scares me to hell. I can not go to a clinic, I can not go to a doctor with this. I am afraid that this will put a hinderance in my future to be a mental health counselor...actually, I know that it would. I have read several posts here before and many today (as this all happened Saturday night) and have got alot of info in passing from Robert....I am now coming to you all personally (as personal as an internet forumn can be ) for help, wisdom, information etc.
Please, how can I taper off of these, what can I do for the withdrawal, how long will this really take? The past three days have been the following, Saturday 10-7.5s, Sunday 6-7.5's Monday (today) so far 4-7.5's and I plan to take at least one more..... please, any help from others out there???

[RubyDean]

It sounds like you know what you need to do. The problem is sticking to it. Which is always the hardest part. This is a great forum for support and experience. Melinda, bless her heart, has done some really good tapers off pills and will offer you a wealth of knowledge. Even while working a suboxone taper, the thing I notice most is learning to become content, and okay with just feeling normal during the day, even taking just enough so I am not sick, but never allowing myself to feel that 'good' as we all know by taking too much. That is something you will need to learn and get comfortable with. Stop the lying, and get honest with yourself and family. Try not to over analyze it too.
I think you will do just fine as long as you stick to your program. All the will.

[Freedom4me]

Supermom,
I'm glad your husband is being so understanding. I hope this helps your marriage. I think the way you are tapering is good. You have already been through the withdrawal so you know what to expect. Really there is no easy way to do it. You won't die but you know how yucky you will feel. Your husband can help you with your child so you can take some to to get this past you. It is also great to keep posting here while you are going through this. You can get a lot of encouragement here and there are always people in various stages of recovery. I, personally, have been off pills since Feb. You will be so glad this is over. One recommendation I would make is to cut off your source. I would tell your doctor that you no longer want him to refill the vics. You don't have to be completely honest about how far addicted you are. I would just tell them that you can feel it getting ahold of you a little bit and willing want to put yourself in check. They will understand and respect you for it. They know that you are pysically dependant due to how long you have been taking them. There is no way around that no matter how few you were taking. Good luck to you. I know someone will post the Thomas recipe. That is helpful. Keep positive and committed and soldier forward. You can do it!!! I will keep checking on you to see how you are doing.
Jenny

[Robert_325]

supermomhelp ..... I would be happy to help you but as RubyDean mentioned if you're going to do a straight taper off the pills Melinda (my wife to be) is much better at doing this than I am. I can work wonders with suboxone but Melinda is really good with planning out tapers like you're needing to do.

She just walked in the door. Give me a few minutes to speak with her and I'll have her post to you direct. Hang on for just a few minutes and relax! This will work out just fine and your future won't be jeopardized as long as you follow through and do the taper like Melinda suggests for you. And Melinda will surely include the Thomas Recipe as part of what she tells you like Jenny said. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Hi supermomhelp
I understand what you are gong thru ...I had a very bad opiate addiction
and I was able to taper off and put it behind me ...
you have done very well so far, I think with a little support from us and you will be back to your old self in no time...

As far as the taper goes if you can stick with 5 today well just drop you a little more over the next week and your W/D will be pretty easy...
after we get you thru this, you can sit back and work at your marriage and get it fixed...dont be scared, we have so much help here well get you there...

do you have a few more pills to get you thru the taper...
when you get down low enough you can do the Thomas recipe and kick this to the curb...
well be here to walk you thru this and I'm glad to hear you are stubborn...that is exactly what you need to do this...

sit back and smile and know your going to make
talk to you soon, Melinda

"PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

THOMAS RECIPE

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

Thomas"

[supermomhelp]

Thank you to everyone! I just printed off the Thomas recipe from another thread. I have read a little about the Sub but I believe that is not an option because it would be going to a member of the field I hope to practice in one day in order to be evaluated.
I want to try the taper, I think that will be best for me as long as I can make it through without feeling like I'm dying I will look forward to hearing from your lovely bride to be.
On a side note, today is my 7 year wedding anniversary...time for new beginings all the way around, I suppose

[supermomhelp]

Melinda, we posted at the same time!
I do have pills left. I actually have about 68 of them right now. My husband has been keeping them in the lock box, hiding the key from me and doseing them to me as prescribed and needed for now.
I am a lucky woman to have him. Even reading all this makes me cry.Thank you again to everyone...be looking forward to hearing from me daily now...I shall be a problem child for you! I work full time, so during the day when things are the hardest I will write often.

[Freedom4me]

Good luck Supermom. You will get plenty of support. We have all been there.

[supermomhelp]

I hope so...because there is a part of me, a rather large one, that is scared to death of all of this.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Super mom
we will love to hear from you any time you post it really does help us, just as much as it helps you ...Let us know when you feel stable at your current dose ...that is when we will drop you again...
I get so excited when someone is doing this...I know you will be fine...
when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself Today is a new day and I'm one day closer to my goal and post to us...it gives you power over your addiction to beat it down...
have a great day and I will talk to you very soon...
Melinda

[supermomhelp]

Well, Im ready to cry....I worked with just the five yesterday. Last night was tough. I didn't sleep well at all. Woke up this morning and asked him to please give me my medicine....finally he gave them to me. He has to work today, as do I and then I have school till late tonight so I asked him to give me three of them for the day and while Im in class. Nope. He said he will see me at noon and give me another one then. I went off. I was pissed. It's something about having absolutley no control over it at all that makes me break.
I need to get back on an antidepressent real quick. I'm sitting here at work and ready to lose it. Someone talk me down...

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by supermomhelp

Well, Im ready to cry....I worked with just the five yesterday. Last night was tough. I didn't sleep well at all. Woke up this morning and asked him to please give me my medicine....finally he gave them to me. He has to work today, as do I and then I have school till late tonight so I asked him to give me three of them for the day and while Im in class. Nope. He said he will see me at noon and give me another one then. I went off. I was pissed. It's something about having absolutley no control over it at all that makes me break.
I need to get back on an antidepressent real quick. I'm sitting here at work and ready to lose it. Someone talk me down...

Why would you be ready to cry? You should be happy that he wants to help you in my opinion. I'm not trying to be hard on you, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. You were freaking about your marriage being on the verge of divorce, then your husband discovered that you needed him to help you with your dependency problem. You even commented about how understanding he was. I think it sounds like he's committed to helping the lady he loves. That's just my take on it.

You don't get it both ways. How would he be helping you to just give you all the pills you asked for? He is seeing you at lunch and you'll get what you need won't you? It doesn't sound like he is withholding your meds. He's trying to control them so it takes the pressure off you to adhere to the taper. At this early point in the taper you don't need control of the pills I don't think.

Sometimes when we get ourselves in this position we NEED someone who cares more about us than we care about ourselves to be a little stern with us. I think you should be grateful for him rather than leaving the house pissed off for the day. Give him a chance to follow through and help you.

Our best choices ended us all up right here on a forum trying to get clean. He's trying to take that pressure away from you and along with that goes giving up a little of the control you previously had that ended up causing you to have a dependency problem. If he took the meds and said that you didn't get anymore, to stop cold, that would be one thing. I'm sure he's got other things he would rather do than dish out your pills one at a time. Think about that. It sounds to me like he's trying to be supportive and help you. Sometimes tough love is what it takes, especially right in the beginning of a taper.

I don't mean to judge you at all, I'm just suggesting that you give him a chance. I see him doing nothing but taking that "temptation" away from you as if you don't have the pills on you then you can't take them. Hope that helps and makes sense. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Hi Supermom
Robert is right be glad that he is going to help you...but I think you should have sat down with him and made a plan on how many you should be taking.
if you made it with 5 the other day I think you should have stayed there for a day or two...can you sit down with him tonight and talk to him about tapering...
I am the same way when I did my taper I needed to be in control...but I was very steadfast on what I wanted...let us know if you can talk to him.
or let me talk to him...I will tell him how to taper you off...
your going to be OK just get thru today...one thing about it tho this will lower your tolerance real fast ...
keep us posted on how you are doing...
Melinda

[supermomhelp]

I made it with the five yesterday but he keeps wanting to stick to what the bottle says. I keep telling him that even though that's what I should be taking, I screwed that up and took more so my body is used to more. We have an appt to go see a therapist this afternoon. I'm scared to death. I dont' want to admit to someone else that I'm a ******** up. And I'm scared that this will hurt me in the future with my career. I'm scared of the taper, I'm scared of being home later and hurting and him being gone and not able to give me anything. I'm scared of all of it.

[supermomhelp]

What's your best suggestion for the taper Melinda? I had been taking about 10 7.5's a day, starting with two in the morning. I have around 60 left. I work full time and CAN NOT take off time and also go to grad school full time so I need the scenerio with the least amount of w/d symptoms.
Thank you so much for all of your help. It's incredible.

[Freedom4me]

Supermom,
You will be ok. You should take a deep breath. Think of it as a flu that you have to fight through and there is nothing that can help the flu but time. The panic you feel is your body screaming for you to give it more pills. You know that those pills can bring you relief. If you don't face this now, you will have to face it at some point, I promise. That is what I had the hardest time with. You are so lucky that your husband is helping you. My husband was too soft. I tried to taper but he would always give me a pill when I asked for it. I would tell him my back was really hurting and he would give in. Well. my back was really hurting but the withdrawals were what made me want the pills. I am on your side!!!! You can do this. The habit that you have is not that bad compared to so many here. You need to let go of the control and just focus all your energy on getting through this rough time of feeling not so great. I couldnt taper, not enough control, so I just went cold turkey. It was not unbearable and in a couple days it was over. You will have your life and your control back. You can do it. I know you can!!

[supermomhelp]

Thank you Freedom. I admire you so much for being able to go cold turkey...that is something I could never do. The pain was immense, I couldn't function, couldnt' take care of my child....nothing. I think I will do best on a click down as long as I continue to have people that I can talk to, that seems to be the key.

[supermomhelp]

Ok...off to our marriage counseling appointment. Want to cry I'm so scared...I'm sure 3 minutes in I'll be a basket case. I'll let you know how it goes in a couple hours. Hope to talk to you all soon!

[TTTDogs]

Supermom - you CAN do it - I promise you it does get better - the suggestion to think of it like the flu is a great one - but we as opiate users are so accustomed to killing any pain with meds - think of this as a spiritual experience - I am on day 10 of a 10 year liquid morphine addiction - along with percs for break out pain - i have posted my story at the end of the thread to Turbo's story - just this morning - try to think of this as a spiritual experience it WILL take determination - incredibly willpower - and some serious soul searching - but YOU CAN MAKE IT! And you willl be stronger for the experience. Sounds like you have a full life ahead - and a husband who cares - as week speak - my husband is driving 3 hours to get me some herbal remedies to help with the insomnia and anxiety - but it is definely getting better day by day - and getting off of opiates has been hauting me for the past ten years - I truly have a painful kidney disease - but am determined to gut out the kidney pain over the opiate pain of using - I have never abused my scripts - always taking as prescribed - but that does not change the fact that I was now faced with a 10 year full blown concentrated morhine addiction.

So hang in there my frind - I could not have done this without the daily doses of inspiration from this group - who knows how nmany lives have been changed / saved by this forum - JOIN THE SUCCESS - FEEL THE PAIN - COME OUT THE OTHER SIDE!

tttDOGS

[supermomhelp]

Thank you everyone! Thank you so tttDogs for sharing your story. I made sure to read it on the other thread, very inspiring. I'm so very proud of you!
Well, the appointment went very well. I cried like a baby, opened up with the line telling him I'm a complete phuckk up. I love this therapist, LOVE him. He kept saying, you're not bad, youre not a failure, this is not as bad as it can be, you can beat this. I was all set to be yelled at or told that I would never be able to practice. He set my mind at ease and talked to my husband about a taper schedule and how to deal with me.
I'm starting to be a little more stable I think. I feel a little more empowered every hour. I think that I can really do this. My hubby even gave me my meds and I only took 1/2 one. YEAH!!! That's huge for me. I still have one and a half for my night class and then he is leaving me another for bed.
I can do this, I can do this......You know what's funny? I keep thinking of the book I got for my bachelors graduation "All the places you'll go".....Inspiring words for a kids book.
Thank you to all!!! I will be checking in often through the day....you're words are my new drug of choice

[Freedom4me]

Supermom,
Glad you are looking at this the right way. Keep it up. You can do this. Just realize that there will be good and bad times during each day but pretty soon there will be more good than bad. After that it will be mostly good and you will be there.

[MaisieC]

Hi supermom,

I'm really glad your session went well and that you're feeling so good. You will definitely get through this! And of course you should be careful to protect your privacy--because there is still a lot of prejudice about this issue--but the truth is that an ASTOUNDING number of people have become addicted to pain meds. It's truly an epidemic. Going through this experience can do nothing but make you a better therapist in the end. It's a hard set of lessons and nothing anyone would seek out, but you know--life gives you lemons and you make lemonade. I'm not happy I'm an addict, but I'm definitely respectful of the lessons it's taught me. The experience can give you greater insight and compassion.

Have you thought about going to a few NA meetings? They're really helpful in getting clean and staying clean, and you can learn a tremendous amount there.

Hang in there, and take good care,
Maisie

[melinda7.5]

Hi Supermom
WOW I went to work for a couple hours and it looks like you have everything worked out ...I can really see you have shifted your attitude in a very good way...That is the best thing you can do to help you get thru this...
If you need anything just let us know...
and keep us posted on how you are doing...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[RubyDean]

supermom, just wanted to tell you to keep up the good work. the first few days of any taper plan can be hard. you are so used to taking the edge off, and having control of your own script, that it takes some getting used to. robert said it all in his post. you are very fortunate to have your husband helping you like this. think about how many you would have taken already, and possibly lied about it, or to yourself...i know it can be painful and uncomfortable at times. your habit is relatively small, so having 4 or 5 pills a day when you are used to taking 10 is really not that bad at all. it is just enough to get you through the day, not be totally sick and in bed. the best advise i can give you is to take hot baths, take vitamins, excercise as much as possible. once your body, mind, and spirit can get calmer and more stable at 4 pills per day, you can continue tapering down slowly. Melinda is a great taper advisor on pills, but I think you will do fine with the 60 or so you have left, if you continue to taper every few days. Just think of every extra one that you 'think' you need now, might be taking away one you will 'really' need later.
all the will.

[supermomhelp]

Thank you to all!!!
Melinda, what do you think is the best bet for the taper? How many days on each dose?

[Freedom4me]

Supermom,
How are your physical symptoms? Are you feeling ok?

[middleofnowhere]

My only recommendation would have been to talk with your doctor about wanting to taper off, and you've just done that. With her/his help, your husband's help and your strength of will (stubbornness) you can do what you need to do. I know about the lockbox. My wife has locked up all meds in our house both at my request and at doc's request. I feel safe then, but frustrated at lack of control. I hope you can for now accept his loving caregiving while you work through this. You have a lot at stake - you've put a huge amount of effort to get where you are, and it doesn't sound as though you have any desire to abandon your goals. God bless you.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by supermomhelp

Thank you to all!!!
Melinda, what do you think is the best bet for the taper? How many days on each dose?

Hi Supermom
OK, if you were me and I didn't want to feel to bad...this is what I would do.
If you can pick up where you left off with five a day...
If you were taking...2 on your morning dose and 2 on your afternoon dose and 1 on your evening dose...is that what you were doing ???

if it is I would and you want to do this slow...I would break one of the pills and break it in half...Pick one of your doses that would work best for you to do that...
you could stay there for up to 4 days till your body gets used to taking that much and then plan on doing the same thing on another dose...
It would work best if you keep it the same thing everyday...
here is an example...

your dosing schedule

2 in the morning pick a dose that you want to break one of these
Pills in half and we can write it down, so you can
2 in the afternoon see it on here, for some reason it makes it easer
when it is written down...
1 in the evening

then when your ready to break another one we can write it down again...then you can go back and see how good you are doing and I bet you will get excited about it and you will even go faster...

so let me know what you think about this...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[supermomhelp]

Actually, I was doing 2 first thing am. Then one at lunch or around 11. One again at 4 and one at 8.
It just seems hardest in the morning. That's when my body is so stiff and in pain.

[supermomhelp]

Opps, I forgot the other response. The physical symptoms are fine actually. A little sore. A little bit of a headache from crying. I have no bowel issues yet. I am getting sore again now and am trying to hold off taking my next one till I get to class at 5. It's only 3:30. Then he said he left #5 at home for me somewhere and to text him when I get there to find out where it is....it's like a vic treasure hunt lol. sorry...I gotta laugh at this mess a bit