Results 1 to 8 of 8
Opiates for depression....?
  1. #1
    djmedic is offline New Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3

    Default Opiates for depression....?

    I am a medical professional (PA) working in family practice. I want to address something that has gotten me on a personal level and I see in my patients every day. That is the use of opiates for treating depression AND anxiety (we tend to label EVRYTHING depression when it may be anxiety/stress and not true depression and that is a huge concern of mine). Years ago I found, only by honest treatment and back then ingorance, that opiates DO help the mood. But only when taken as prescribed. I notice alot of patients now who, in one sentence tell me they are lifting 100 boulders to build something, yet claim disability, and then in the other are seeing me for a refill of their pain medications...because it is not really physical pain they need relief from. Studies have shown (for sake of brevity I am not going to post the studies here, but they can be found on googlescholar.com) that opiates do help depression. Other studies have shown that many of the SSRI's like lexapro, celexa, etc, are actually worse then a placebo (sugar pill!) for treatng depression.

    I fall more into anxiety, but also I know that WE ALL get depressed. I lecture my patients often, in a nice way, that they "are not an island!" We all think, or they tell me, "well I have been through alot!" WE ALL HAVE. I get the "I have a 'slipped' disk everyday....anyone over 30 likely has some disk compression. Common, not rare. So it is with our lives. I like to say that we families are LOOKING for function, as I have never seen a family that did not have some dysfuntion.....but that is okay too.

    Depression is not abnormal. When it messes up our daily lives then ok, we need treatment. Personally I have been on many of the SSRI's and honestly, outside of dry mouth and nightmares, they have never helped at all. They do not even take the edge off stress/anxiety/depression. But one mild hydrocodone works wonders. And I never steal or buy illegally. But they work. And I tend to have some sympathy for my patients. If they are following the rules, I am fine if they also use a little hydrocodone - I tend to stay away from the schedule 2 drugs - and I lay down rules; I can look them up on the state database, call pharmacies, etc., to ensure their SAFETY and addiction......but it works. And contrary to the evidence, when taken as prescribed it is not a "false" treatment or causes more problems. Everything and somewhere someone, breakes the rules, but not usually.

    One big thought.....there is no other medications, nothing, that causes a true euphoria like opiates. They work, and we need to find a way to harvest that. Everyone worries about addiction, but that is only part of it, and lay down the rules and things will likely be fine. SSRI's, like lexapro? Look at their side effects....pretty heavy drug.

    My point? They work, gotta find a way to make that known and make them better. Suboxone may be a good start!

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,689

    Default Are you kidding me!!!!

    You've got to be joking. Oh sure! Let's start giving everyone hydrocodone for depression. See how long that lasts before a bigger % of the population is dependent on opiates than we have already. So are you prescribing celexa, lexapro and zoloft for pain?

    I'm REALLY happy to hear you "try" to stay away from schedule IIs. Why not just give everyone a script for Roxies??? That would make everyone REALLY happy!!! Giving people suboxone for depression is very smart. Where is it exactly you practice medicine at? I want to be able to refer all the depressed people who come to this forum to you for advice.

    Medical "professionals" ... don't you just love them? God bless
    Last edited by Robert_325; 05-04-2009 at 10:46 AM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    ddosher is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    164

    Default Thanks for the clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by djmedic View Post
    I am a medical professional (PA) working in family practice. I want to address something that has gotten me on a personal level and I see in my patients every day. That is the use of opiates for treating depression AND anxiety (we tend to label EVRYTHING depression when it may be anxiety/stress and not true depression and that is a huge concern of mine). Years ago I found, only by honest treatment and back then ingorance, that opiates DO help the mood. But only when taken as prescribed. I notice alot of patients now who, in one sentence tell me they are lifting 100 boulders to build something, yet claim disability, and then in the other are seeing me for a refill of their pain medications...because it is not really physical pain they need relief from. Studies have shown (for sake of brevity I am not going to post the studies here, but they can be found on googlescholar.com) that opiates do help depression. Other studies have shown that many of the SSRI's like lexapro, celexa, etc, are actually worse then a placebo (sugar pill!) for treatng depression.

    I fall more into anxiety, but also I know that WE ALL get depressed. I lecture my patients often, in a nice way, that they "are not an island!" We all think, or they tell me, "well I have been through alot!" WE ALL HAVE. I get the "I have a 'slipped' disk everyday....anyone over 30 likely has some disk compression. Common, not rare. So it is with our lives. I like to say that we families are LOOKING for function, as I have never seen a family that did not have some dysfuntion.....but that is okay too.

    Depression is not abnormal. When it messes up our daily lives then ok, we need treatment. Personally I have been on many of the SSRI's and honestly, outside of dry mouth and nightmares, they have never helped at all. They do not even take the edge off stress/anxiety/depression. But one mild hydrocodone works wonders. And I never steal or buy illegally. But they work. And I tend to have some sympathy for my patients. If they are following the rules, I am fine if they also use a little hydrocodone - I tend to stay away from the schedule 2 drugs - and I lay down rules; I can look them up on the state database, call pharmacies, etc., to ensure their SAFETY and addiction......but it works. And contrary to the evidence, when taken as prescribed it is not a "false" treatment or causes more problems. Everything and somewhere someone, breakes the rules, but not usually.

    One big thought.....there is no other medications, nothing, that causes a true euphoria like opiates. They work, and we need to find a way to harvest that. Everyone worries about addiction, but that is only part of it, and lay down the rules and things will likely be fine. SSRI's, like lexapro? Look at their side effects....pretty heavy drug.

    My point? They work, gotta find a way to make that known and make them better. Suboxone may be a good start!
    Your post makes perfect sense to me. I realize from it that you do not have all the answers but here are two points based on my experience with both Hydrocodone and Suboxone that I would make.

    First off, I was being prescribed the Hydro for severe sciatic nerve problems, including nerve damage. I was taking 4-7.5/500 per day for a long time. It did lift my mood considerably and I took them as prescribed. Then my mom passed away and there was more pain (probably more mental than physical) and my Dr. upped my script to 6 daily. I was happy to comply because the 4 per day and the compounding death of my mom was no longer "lifting" my mood. The tolerance to the drug is alarming, especially for someone like me who "loves everythings she likes".

    When I realized that I was absolutely addicted to it because my world was basically centered around taking it, making sure I had it...blah...blah...blah I came to the computer to see what was available toavoid going cold turkey.I found the Turn-To-Help and through them got hooked up to a Dr. prescribing Suboxone. This particular Dr. wanted $100.00 per week to attend his group and get the script. Then the drug itself was $82.00. I am self employed with no insurance so I eventually ran out of money and had to stop taking the Sub after 5 months from a dose of 8mg. I have never been through anything as awful as that is my life. I was physically sick and mentally I am still not right. This is about day 54. Now I know from this forum that there are so many variables including that each individual's reaction to the drug can be very different. However, having gone through this, my MAJOR concern is the handling of this drug BY THE PROFESSIONALS. I certainly did feel more normal when I took the Suboxone. Not euphoric, not high...just normal. I'm not certain the Suboxone was doing anything for my depression, however I will say that coming off of it, I have been very depressed. From what I understand though, this is due mainly from the stopping both the opioids and the suboxone. My nuero-receptors are shut off because the chemicals in the drugs were supplying the artificial euphoria, so now the natural dopamine and seratonin have nowhere to attached to. I have had a headache all of these 54 days. My brain actually HURTS.

    I did not know at the time what I was going to go through jumping off the Suboxone. I did not do my research as I should have. When I did finally realize what was going on I was already 7 or 8 days off of it and made a decision NOT to go back on. I followed through with the cold turkey. The Suboxone IS a HEAVY DUTY drug. I can't imagine that any SSRI is any more heavy. I agree that SSRI's can do more harm than good at times and I do think that the Hydrocodone did for me what Prozac could not.

    However, I have a great deal of reservation regarding using the Suboxone due to the severity of the misguided information out there. The Dr's are not informed and most have no clue what a good induction or a good tapering is. If you look at these postings, there is noone familiar with this drug that advocates being on it for any significant amount of time.I do not see it as an answer to depression.

    I agree that there has got to be a better way to treat depression. The downside to using the fast-acting opiate is that the dose has to continually advanced to get t same effect and where would it stop? The suboxone is just way too dangerous (in my oh so humble opinion) to consider taking it long term...getting off is hell and would probably cause more harm than good for those severely clinically depressed.

    My 2 cents.
    Donna

  4. #4
    Psyched is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    208

    Default

    LOL Robert!!! I agree wholeheartedly! As if benzos aren't enough to be throwin' at depression and anxiety, this guy wants to add opiates to the mix! I wonder if he's just "trying" to advertise for his own practice?

  5. #5
    dezz1801 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    92

    Default

    I sat on this for a second trying to think if I should even say anything. I've decided I'm furious enough to throw my 2 cents in.

    I think you're a flat out IDIOT for even posting what you posted. It makes me wonder if you just posted that to rattle some cages for your own personal enjoyment. So here, I'll entertain.

    It's doctors like YOU that have ruined a LOT of people's lives on here. How about you talk about the depression that occurs AFTER using hydrocodone? Yea, lets prescribe a PAIN killer for depression. A fast acting one at that, used on average 3-4 times a day. Even at the LOWEST dose, after time it becomes unaffective. Therefore, increasing dosages. Which in turn leads to ADDICTION. Perhaps not mental addiction, but put someone on those pills for 2 months and tell me they don't go through w/d.

    I have some other things I wanna say, but I'm sure I'll get kicked off of here if I do. Take your BS antics somewhere else. Encouraging the use of hydrocodone for depression....you're a d@mn JOKE of a doctor. Get sued....PLEASE!!!!!
    Shoot for the moon, because even if you miss, you'll land on the stars

  6. #6
    xxhelzxx is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    hoome
    Posts
    173

    Default

    05-04-2009 01:25 PM
    djmedic Opiates for depression....?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am a medical professional (PA) working in family practice. I want to address something that has gotten me on a personal level and I see in my patients every day. That is the use of opiates for treating depression AND anxiety (we tend to label EVRYTHING depression when it may be anxiety/stress and not true depression and that is a huge concern of mine). Years ago I found, only by honest treatment and back then ingorance, that opiates DO help the mood. But only when taken as prescribed. I notice alot of patients now who, in one sentence tell me they are lifting 100 boulders to build something, yet claim disability, and then in the other are seeing me for a refill of their pain medications...because it is not really physical pain they need relief from. Studies have shown (for sake of brevity I am not going to post the studies here, but they can be found on googlescholar.com) that opiates do help depression. Other studies have shown that many of the SSRI's like lexapro, celexa, etc, are actually worse then a placebo (sugar pill!) for treatng depression.

    I fall more into anxiety, but also I know that WE ALL get depressed. I lecture my patients often, in a nice way, that they "are not an island!" We all think, or they tell me, "well I have been through alot!" WE ALL HAVE. I get the "I have a 'slipped' disk everyday....anyone over 30 likely has some disk compression. Common, not rare. So it is with our lives. I like to say that we families are LOOKING for function, as I have never seen a family that did not have some dysfuntion.....but that is okay too.

    Depression is not abnormal. When it messes up our daily lives then ok, we need treatment. Personally I have been on many of the SSRI's and honestly, outside of dry mouth and nightmares, they have never helped at all. They do not even take the edge off stress/anxiety/depression. But one mild hydrocodone works wonders. And I never steal or buy illegally. But they work. And I tend to have some sympathy for my patients. If they are following the rules, I am fine if they also use a little hydrocodone - I tend to stay away from the schedule 2 drugs - and I lay down rules; I can look them up on the state database, call pharmacies, etc., to ensure their SAFETY and addiction......but it works. And contrary to the evidence, when taken as prescribed it is not a "false" treatment or causes more problems. Everything and somewhere someone, breakes the rules, but not usually.

    One big thought.....there is no other medications, nothing, that causes a true euphoria like opiates. They work, and we need to find a way to harvest that. Everyone worries about addiction, but that is only part of it, and lay down the rules and things will likely be fine. SSRI's, like lexapro? Look at their side effects....pretty heavy drug.

    My point? They work, gotta find a way to make that known and make them better. Suboxone may be a good start!
    Ive got a great idea. run into a knife!!!

  7. #7
    Freedom4me is offline Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Djmedic,
    Thoughtful post and I do not disagree that opiates help with moods. I think the problem is that there is no magic pill that can make you happy in your life. If I am suffering anxiety or depression sure I can take a vicodin and feel good for a few hours but the root of my problem is still there. My behavior or circumstances has not changed and just taking a pill for a few hours relief sets me up for wanting to take a pill for a few more hours of relief and so on. It is a faact that you build up a physical tolerence for the effects of these medications so now I have to take 2 pills to get the same relief for my anxiety. I know you see where I am going. All it does is mask my problem, create a tolerence to the drug which encourages me to take more of it and ultimately leads definately to physical dependence if not addiction. It's a slippery slope. I think it's better to treat/find out the cause of the anxiety or depression. Just my 2 cents. Please note that I think by your post that you are not avocating pill popping for any little time you get teary eyed about something. I get that. At least I hope you are not. I just think the risks out weigh the rewards in this case. Very dangerous game.
    Last edited by Freedom4me; 05-06-2009 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #8
    xxhelzxx is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    hoome
    Posts
    173

    Default

    yea why not just tell people to go to their local opium den if they feel down.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22