[Freedom4me]

Hey Opee,
Are you going through the "quasi-relaspse" thing a little right now? I sense a little more depression than determination compared to some of your earlier posts. I am not judging you friend just trying to figure out the best way to help you. You need to get rid of those numbers in your phone. That's like a safety net for using. The very hardest step for me was when I decided I would NEVER use again. Wow, I remember what a big word that was and all the little conversations that went on inside my head, excuses really. You know the kind.... well what if my back hurts really bad for a day, well, what if I need the energy to clean the house cause friends are coming over. I kept leaving myself these little "outs" that were really messing with me. NEVER is a strong word for an addict but I think it is the most important one. Any way, just wanted to share. You seem to be a lliottle different lately and wanted to help. I can tell you what I miss the least. looking in my prescription bottle and only seeing just a few pills left and knowing they weren't going to last me more than a day or two and doing all the mental math of how to divide them so they would last the longest and still get me the buzzed feeling. I am free of that now and I am thankful every day!
Jenny

[caughtagain]

Hey Opee... Day 10, that is awesome, Keep up the good work. I am glad you spoke to MOT, He is a great guy and is doing great things helping and such. I am having a rough week. A lot of triggers and just stuff getting me down. Normal stuff, but stuff non the less. I have had maybe 3 hours of sleep a night. I think that has caused the most triggers... Work has been rough, trying to make payroll etc.. Anyway, I just needed to vent a bit. I let two people go. Man that makes me sad. well pal, have a nice day, I sure am proud of you Opee.. CA

[SRVJimi]

I know this thread is for opieee, but I am in need of help and thought i would ask here. In college I used OC off and on, mostly through the nose. After graduation I came I wanted the same feeling I had doing it with my friends at school and the late nights and all and came across a guy up here who had some pretty cheap, so I got a few at a time. I would usually do maybe 40-60 mg a day for 3 days at a time, then off for a week or so. Lately I have been getting into it too hard and have blown 14 80mg OC over the course of a week. I realized I cannot be doing this. I just graduated with a great job, just got a puppy and have a great girlfriend and realize I dont need to hit rock bottom before I quit, just a vision of what rock bottom looks like. Anyways, I have not used any since 10am on Sept 8th, and around 8 that night I began to feel really weak, but I assumed it was because I had just worked out pretty hard. Yesterday i had stomach problems and feel achy like my skin was crawling and have no appetite. Depression is there and what not. I was just curious how long symptoms like this may last for a person who has used steadily lets say for 3 weeks? I can only imagine how you feel after years of use. Godspeed

SRV

[Opee]

Originally Posted by Freedom4me

Hey Opee,
Are you going through the "quasi-relaspse" thing a little right now? I sense a little more depression than determination compared to some of your earlier posts. I am not judging you friend just trying to figure out the best way to help you. You need to get rid of those numbers in your phone. That's like a safety net for using. The very hardest step for me was when I decided I would NEVER use again. Wow, I remember what a big word that was and all the little conversations that went on inside my head, excuses really. You know the kind.... well what if my back hurts really bad for a day, well, what if I need the energy to clean the house cause friends are coming over. I kept leaving myself these little "outs" that were really messing with me. NEVER is a strong word for an addict but I think it is the most important one. Any way, just wanted to share. You seem to be a lliottle different lately and wanted to help. I can tell you what I miss the least. looking in my prescription bottle and only seeing just a few pills left and knowing they weren't going to last me more than a day or two and doing all the mental math of how to divide them so they would last the longest and still get me the buzzed feeling. I am free of that now and I am thankful every day!
Jenny

Hey Free,

You are right and you are wrong. You are not sensing a "quasi-relapse" (nice way to phrase it though), yet you are sensing depression. Perhaps it is coming across as more depression and less determination? Maybe because I don't post quite as often, I don't know. I've never gone this long before so I don't really know what "normal" feels like anymore. For so long either it was I'm ********ed up or in withdrawl. But, for the record, no, I'm not in a relapse, but I AM in a funk. LIFE in itself is not fun these days. I don't feel great, I have alot of stressors and triggers and I've given up something I love and have grown very accustomed to. The physical stuff is subsiding, but the mental part is tougher than anticipated. I think about pills ALOT. I don't do anything about it, but I think about them constantly. Coke was not like this. It doesn't develop that mental hold on you. I am staying the course, thanks for thinking of me. You're good at reading in between the lines, but not perfect

Opee

[Opee]

Originally Posted by SRVJimi

I know this thread is for opieee, but I am in need of help and thought i would ask here. In college I used OC off and on, mostly through the nose. After graduation I came I wanted the same feeling I had doing it with my friends at school and the late nights and all and came across a guy up here who had some pretty cheap, so I got a few at a time. I would usually do maybe 40-60 mg a day for 3 days at a time, then off for a week or so. Lately I have been getting into it too hard and have blown 14 80mg OC over the course of a week. I realized I cannot be doing this. I just graduated with a great job, just got a puppy and have a great girlfriend and realize I dont need to hit rock bottom before I quit, just a vision of what rock bottom looks like. Anyways, I have not used any since 10am on Sept 8th, and around 8 that night I began to feel really weak, but I assumed it was because I had just worked out pretty hard. Yesterday i had stomach problems and feel achy like my skin was crawling and have no appetite. Depression is there and what not. I was just curious how long symptoms like this may last for a person who has used steadily lets say for 3 weeks? I can only imagine how you feel after years of use. Godspeed

SRV

Hi. You can feel free to use this thread at any time. No, you don't need to hit rock bottom to quit, most of us just seem to find ourselves there. I never did a ton of OC's, they have always been so hard to get. I read about this Oxycontin epidemic and I know 1 person who gets them and he isn't sharing. Doctors seem to be very afraid to prescribe this. A friend of mine goes to a pain clinic after multiple back surgeries and even they won't give them to him. But, I do know a thing or 2 about abusing opiates. Given your short duration, I doubt you will feel discomfort more than a day or 2. I've been "on" for years and 11 days in I still don't feel great. Physically, it's just the "blahs" at this point, but mentally I feel very blah. So, in answer to your question, I doubt you will have very serious withdrawls. But, everyone is different. Some people experience a certain side effect very acutely while another might be bothered really at all. Stomach issues are bad for me, so I feel you.

You will probably get more responses if you use the main thread "Vicodin/Percocet Withdrawl" as many more people view it than I would imagine are viewing my process.

It sucks. The depression sucks. Add anything else ********ty that has happened in your life (or multiple things) over the last few months and you have a real mess on your hands, like me. Please use this thread as much as you would like, if my situation can help anyone, let alone myself, I'm all for it. Welcome aboard, Mate!

Opee

[caughtagain]

Hey Opee, I just wanted to send good thoughts your way my friend. I have had a rough few days too. Just the mental blahs as well I think. Work has been rough, which in turn I get almost zero sleep, which in turn I am dragging and bummed. So, I know how you feel man. But just hang in there and know you are in my thoughts. Remember, This IS a process and This too shall pass. I have been repeating these two in my head.. Your Pal CA.

[Opee]

Jenny, I have been thinking about your post quite a bit today, especially during my lunch break. I think you had every right to make that assumption or pose that question. One thing I can say is this: I am honest here, it's about the only place I'm honest with my drug use. I am severely depressed right now. It's simply just too much: my best friend dying still has me very messed up, a strange man living with my ex-wife and now "raising" my son, my ex-wife being pregnant and making all the plans with someone else that we once had. I don't know how to combat this. More pills? I really don't think that's the answer. I see my shrink Tuesday for refills, but again, I don't think pills are the answer. It's becoming increasingly more apparent that Narcotics Anonymous is going to have to play a role. I want to be clean, I am clean, but can I say I am nEver going to use again? No, I cannot say that. I'm not in a good place right now, but I don't have a stomach full of pills at least.

[Riff]

Hey Opee - long time no chat. Sorry for dropping off the radar...more on that later.

I'm REALLY glad to see how far you've come. Stay the course bro - you're going to do this. You're just about there - it's your time - I know it.

I ended up on a different path. Got to Day 13 or Day 14 and the stomach pains were just not letting up. I can't believe how bad and how debilitating it was. Guess I shouldn't have been surprised. After being on Percocet non-stop for a year and getting up to about 100mg a day, going almost cold turkey (had a day or two of a few Vicodin's and Codeine 3's) was pretty stupid.

Anyway - at around Day 14, I said enough, and got my monthly refill. I simply couldn't function with the stomach pain - work, family, etc were all suffering and I was at the end of my rope.

I didn't forget the agony though, and knew that the only real path was to get clean. The reality is there are simply no other alternatives. I'd either end up right back where I was in terrible w/d: this month or next month or whenever, or if by some miracle I was able to have access to an unlimited supply - I'd end up O/D'ing as the only thing that held me back from taking more than 100mg/day was my constant worry about my supply. BTW - I should be taking only 30mg day as per my prescription so every month was always a scramble and/or some measure of w/d pains until my refill date. I am so sick of letting this thing totally take over my life. It becomes all you think about...

So, I took my refill and started on a long, slow, taper. I'm now down to just 7.5mg a day. Starting tomorrow I'm cutting it back to 5mg (2 half 5mg pills)...will do that for a few days and then 2.5mg/day for a few days and then I'm going to cut the cord for good.

I can honestly say that I feel really good....not high at all...just good, like my old self (who I barely remembered). No w/d at all so far - thank god!. I think when I'm at such a small dose, there will be little to no w/d when I stop completely. Am keeping my fingers crossed...

On a final note (and what prompted me to post here again for you) is that I was also on other meds with the percs. Neurontin for the nerve pain, and Lexapro for depression which popped up out of the blue about 6 months ago. I stopped taking both of those at the same time I began my taper. I really think they were contributing to my painful w/d and were not helping my body get back to where it needed to be - clean. Especially the Lexapro as it bothers my stomach anyway although when I was dosing on the perc's I didn't feel it of course. As for the Neurontin, it never helped my pain in the first place...I just kept taking it because the doc's kept saying I should. Dumb...

Not saying that cutting out all/most of the meds is the right route for you or anyone else. I can only tell you what helped me so far. We put these crazy cocktails of meds in our bodies...then we change the cocktail: remove some, add others...it's nuts. No wonder we feel like ********...our bodies/minds don't know what "normal" is anymore...

I'm pulling for you Opee....stay tough. Keep your fingers crossed for me and let's stay in touch.

- Riff

[Freedom4me]

Opee,
I am sorry you are depressed but I am glad you have not started taking the pills again. Like I said before, I just noticed a change in the tone of your posts. Depression is a hard thing. The one thing I will say, and I am no phychiatrist, is that it might be tough right now to tell if you have true depression or if your body is simply adjusting to not having the opiates thus letting you know how unhappy with you it is. Depression is usually a checmical imbalance in the brain and just the fact of coming off the pills is going to cause that for you. I think you need to hold on friend and let all the chemicals in your body get back to normal. Unfortunately that will take some time. I agree with Riff that you need to get everything out of your system, as unpleasant as that is, and start from square one. I would bet you a ton that if you are eating right, taking vitamins and working out in a couple months you will feel like a new person. I know that sounds like a long time but you screwed your body up for a long time, like we all did! Remember there is no quick fix and that "happy" pill we all love so much is not a "real" feeling and it is killing us. You need to break the cycle. I read a saying the other day that really stuck with me:
"If you believe in your dreams they MAY come true..... If you believe in yourself they WILL come true.

[Opee]

You guys are totally right. Combating pills with more pills is crazy. Jen, you are correct, square one is where I need to be. Until I rid ALL of these poisons out of me, "normal" isn't even on the horizon. I can take the W/D pain, I've basically been in W/D for a year unless I was high.

I can keep fooling myself, but 100% pill free is where I need to be. I know all of this, but an outside viewpoint from 2 different people who know where I am at helps.

I am opiate free, but not clean right now. I need to be clean. There are bigger issues and problems at work than just the opiates. The benzo's and amphetamines need to go, too. Legal script or not, they're controlled substances for a reason. Almost 2 weeks in and I still have little to no energy. I do not truly know if I am depressed (truly) or just depressed that I'm not eating handfuls of pills. And you're right, until I am clean, I won't know.

[Riff]

You can do it Opee. You might want to try to taper on the benzo's and amphetamines so you don't shock your system. Make a little plan....start slow. Drop down a notch and hold it for a few days...then drop again....then again. Pretty soon you'll be able to just stop. As corny as it sounds, plans & goals really help.

It's amazing how good you can feel as your body get's detoxed from all the ********.

Exercise is really good too. I just do a few mile walk every day that I can and it really helps. Might get a little more ambitious in the near future...

Freedom4me is right about eating healthy too. For me, that's just eating regular meals every day with some fruit and yogurt as snacks. If I feel like it, I'll have some ice cream or cookies or whatever too. Regular Tea really helped me too. Stopped drinking coffee since it wasn't helping my stomach. I thought I would really miss it since I love it and drank so much of it, but I was surprised that I didn't, and the tea made me feel better.

When I was dosing, I would eat haphazardly....some days almost nothing at all...other times over-eating at one or 2 large meals. Food was more of a distraction to me - I didn't care about it. I was on the coffee and cigarettes diet. Can't believe I lived like that for so long. Dropped from 215 to 185 without trying but didn't look healthy. Getting some color back now and my face is staring to lose that drawn appearance. Starting to feel that I might actually get back to my old self at some point.

Remember what that's like? It's out there for you bro...

Get out in the sunshine - do something fun or that you enjoy every day...and every day you'll feel a little better.

Most of all stop beating yourself up. Focus on the positive and the terrific progress you've made. You should be proud of where you are and look forward to where you're going to be.

Life will be good again Opee....you'll see.

[Opee]

Thanks, Riff. I can tell alot about someone's history and usage formt heir posts and references. A guy the other day was planning his meals around his pill taking and not eating with his family. Sounds familiar...

Food is a distraction at best, more of an annoyance. I could care less for it when I'm dosing.

Good advice, I have always been my own worst enemy/toughest critic. I'm about 2 weeks in and do feel better. I told myself depression is a state of mind and to not let it affect me. Had a great day with my kid. We've avoided the pool most of the Summer (due to weather, mainly) as it's easier to let him play video games all day. We went swimming for a couple hours and it felt good to be doing a normal activity as a father and not all pilled up in my chair watching him play Lego Star Wars.

I've put myself in the right frame of mind. Life is improving and will continue. But you were right in an earlier post about these pill cocktails. It gets to the point that your body doesn't even know how to react, you're throwing so many signals at it.

[Freedom4me]

Keep up the good work friend. Time is the great healer! It's hard for everyone. You have to change so many things about your life it can be a bit overwhelming but it is soooo worth it. Live strong

[Opee]

Originally Posted by Freedom4me

Keep up the good work friend. Time is the great healer! It's hard for everyone. You have to change so many things about your life it can be a bit overwhelming but it is soooo worth it. Live strong

It IS overwhelming. You are so right, I have been living this way for 20 years and I don't even know how to live without drugs. I guess that's why the mantra is "One Day at a Time" because the scope of it is too big to take in. There is no other way to take it, other than one day at a time.

[Riff]

That's good to hear Opee. Bet you felt pretty good in the pool with your kid.

Activity definitely helps both physically & mentally. Best thing for me has always been swimming in the ocean. I remember having some nightmare hangovers in my younger days (and a few in my more recent days) and jumping in the ocean and the swimming/body surfing was like magic - felt great after about 10 minutes. Something about the saltwater and the waves...

I don't live that close to the beach though, so a dip in the pool is a close second. I know some people say hot showers work for them but for me I needed something a little more bracing to break through the funk/fugue/pain...

Last thing I forget to tell you in my earlier post re: eating healthy is I found something that really helped the stomach cramps and just made me feel good generally: Cranberry/Grape Juice. How ridiculous is that? I have no idea why it works and I discovered it randomly: ran out of iced tea and my son drinks the juice so we always have it in the fridge so I just drank a large glass of it. Within 10 minutes my stomach cramps eased and I felt a lot better overall. Weird...but now I drink a few large glasses of it every day and it's great. You might want to try it and see if it helps you. Wish I discovered it the last time I was in w/d with the agonizing stomach knots and pain...

On a final note you nailed it partner - one day at a time. Getting clean isn't an event, it's a process, and you're well on your way. Keep it up, be proud of what you've done so far and look forward to where you're going to be. Set some short term goals re: getting off all the meds and make a little plan to get there. Hitting those interim milestones really boosts your confidence and helps keep you focused on the end-game: Clean, happy and being a real person again. You're a smart, funny and insightful guy Opee. I bet everybody will be thrilled to have you back. You most of all.

[Opee]

Riff,

Thanks, Man. I trust your advice and opinions on this type of thing. You're looking at a long term junkie here and I can tell you've been around the block just from your phrasing on certain things. Have to go to the store in the next day or so, so I'll try it. I drink alot of OJ when I'm detoxing, but that is rough on the stomach. This is taking a long time. Yesterday I didn't feel too bad, today I feel awful. WTF? 2 weeks should do it, it's never been like this. I have actually been sleeping OK the last few nights but last night I turned off the AC because I'm cheap. Woke up just soaked thru the sheets. I hate that. So, we'll leave the air on for the humidity at night. Still some hot/cold flashes here and there. What a disgusting way to wake up at 5am...Set's the tone for the whole day.

Opee

[Opee]

I'm like 2 weeks in and still feel like ********. I haven't touched Vic's or Norco's but have taken some Darvocet here and there throughout the last 2 weeks. Nothing crazy, but I've taken some. Darvocet is an opioid vs. Hydrocodone which is an opiate. Is the Darvocet causing this to take more time than normal? Most people I know don't even consider Darvocet a drug, but I disagree. There is alot of knowlege out there, I'm soliciting opinions.

Thanks!
Opee

[bev49]

Hi there Opee... We've never met but I've heard so many good things about you. I understand you were one of the major mentors here. Oh well, relapse is just one part of recovery. Opee, darvocet is ABSOLUTELY a drug. cut and paste from a website: [I]Propoxyphene is in a group of drugs called narcotic pain relievers.[/I Its just weaker than some of the others. Opiate, opioid, who cares, its a narcotic.... I'd say darvocet is prolonging the agony for sure.

[caughtagain]

Hey Opee.... CA here. back in my first round of drug use when I was in my early 20's, you know what pill I started out with... Darvocet. It played with my head and propelled me to heavier use of the more powerful drugs. But it will mess with us Addicts.. I would look for things that did that "something" that the percs or the vic's did. When I was out or a doc was on to my schtick, they would always write for either Ultram or Darvocet. I used to measure my success by what they would write. Those two were a last resort for me to take, but I would gobble them up just the same. So in my opinion, lose the darvocet. THat is another avenue that needs to go. I remember one time, I had a friend who was a doc (this is sick), we hung out and he thought I was a doc waiting for my lic to get approved in my new state. So, as we got closer, I would tell him of my pains, he would write me scripts for ultram with unlimited refills (refill prn) I had the pharmacist as a "friend" who too thought I was a dr so she would fill them as often as I needed. So when I would run out of Norco's, Iwould hit the Ultrams hard, that is, until I woke up with two paramedics asking me who I was etc..... Not good. What was worse is they, not I at the time put two and two together as to why I had a seizure. I got sent to a neuro guy who diagnosed me with a seizure disorder. And among other things what did he perscribe me.... that's right kiddies, norco for the post seizure pain and Xanax for the stress... Boy was I off to the races. And that my friend started with my little friend Darvocet... I care about you Opee, you are strong my friend, you WILL make it!!!..... CA

[Opee]

Originally Posted by bev49

Hi there Opee... We've never met but I've heard so many good things about you. I understand you were one of the major mentors here. Oh well, relapse is just one part of recovery. Opee, darvocet is ABSOLUTELY a drug. cut and paste from a website: [I]Propoxyphene is in a group of drugs called narcotic pain relievers.[/I Its just weaker than some of the others. Opiate, opioid, who cares, its a narcotic.... I'd say darvocet is prolonging the agony for sure.

Hi Bev,

Nice to meet you. Considering my "colleagues," that is very high praise indeed. Not sure if it's warranted, but certainly appreciated.

I'm with you, frankly. Opiate, opioid, they are all narcotics on the the "List" for a reason. People with medical training have told me they don't even consider it a drug, but as I said, I agree with you.

Thanks for reaching out and the kind words. It means more than you might think.

Opee

[Opee]

Originally Posted by caughtagain

Hey Opee.... CA here. back in my first round of drug use when I was in my early 20's, you know what pill I started out with... Darvocet. It played with my head and propelled me to heavier use of the more powerful drugs. But it will mess with us Addicts.. I would look for things that did that "something" that the percs or the vic's did. When I was out or a doc was on to my schtick, they would always write for either Ultram or Darvocet. I used to measure my success by what they would write. Those two were a last resort for me to take, but I would gobble them up just the same. So in my opinion, lose the darvocet. THat is another avenue that needs to go. I remember one time, I had a friend who was a doc (this is sick), we hung out and he thought I was a doc waiting for my lic to get approved in my new state. So, as we got closer, I would tell him of my pains, he would write me scripts for ultram with unlimited refills (refill prn) I had the pharmacist as a "friend" who too thought I was a dr so she would fill them as often as I needed. So when I would run out of Norco's, Iwould hit the Ultrams hard, that is, until I woke up with two paramedics asking me who I was etc..... Not good. What was worse is they, not I at the time put two and two together as to why I had a seizure. I got sent to a neuro guy who diagnosed me with a seizure disorder. And among other things what did he perscribe me.... that's right kiddies, norco for the post seizure pain and Xanax for the stress... Boy was I off to the races. And that my friend started with my little friend Darvocet... I care about you Opee, you are strong my friend, you WILL make it!!!..... CA

Hey CA,

Nice to hear from you. I can trace this whole mess back to Darvocet. It's taken years (over 20 since the first time I tried a Darvie) to get to this point, but here I am. It's a false high. It tricks your brain into thinking it's what you want. By my line of thinking, as long as I was "altered" I didn't care. Really don't like Ultram. Only had it a few times and was very unimpressed.

Every time I try and rationalize that any usage is OK I post. Then you guys bring me back by reiterating what I already know. They all have to go. Thanks for sharing more of your history. Riff has been doing that and the more I know you're like me (that sounds awful - I don't mean it to) the more I trust and respect your opinions and words. We've ALL been around the block a few times, it's just time for me to pull it into the garage.

Thanks for the feedback. I knew the answer, just wanted reinforcement.

Opee

[Freedom4me]

Opee,
Hey my friend. Can I ask you why you think you need the buzz to live your life? I will tell you that my use started from real back pain from an accident. My doc would give me 100 vics all the time. the most I was allowed to take was 8 in a 24 hour period. I did this for years, of course I built it up from 2 or 3 in a 24 hour period. Well, I started to go over because the 8 wouldn't stop the pain. It was then that I found this site because I was running out of my script too soon and knew I was physically dependent based on the spectacular withdrawals I would get waiting to fill it again. Long story short I went c/t after coming to this site. Back still hurts like heck but there is no way around that, I would have ended up taking 20 a day and as I built up tolerence it still would have hurt so here I am. Off pills since feb. My questions to you is why do you think you need the pills to live a happy life? I know how much time and energy and agony is wasted in making sure you have them, when you have them, how you have them. There has to be something in your life that is empty that you are trying to fill. If you let yourself off the hook of these pills for a long period of time and change all your habits and routines I think you can find what you are looking for. You are taking them to fill a void. Do you just want to be wasted all the way to your death? When I was going through the c/t withdrawals, all I could think of was that on the last day of my life, when there are no more days left for me, what would I give to have those 4 or 5 days back that I had made myself sick and was flat on my a$$ feeling sorry for myself because of some pills. I can never, ever get those days back. Like the songs says, "lifes like an hour glass glued to the table". You can't turn it over Opee. Every day you waste like this is a day, I'm pretty sure that on your dying day you would do anything to have back. One more day with family, one more day with friends, one more day with sunshine and music and laughter. If today was your last day and you knew it, how much would you regret all the days you wasted to drugs?You need to keep fighting and don't be careless with the precious days you have left in this world. I'm not a religeous person so I don't want it to sound like that at all but I want to see my kids get married. I want to meet my grandkids someday and watch them play Tball or soccer or ballet. We are stealing time from ourselves! Search your soul and find out what is making you so unhappy that you need to live in a fog. That is the source of your troubles and pain. I'm no phychiatrist and don't much believe in them. I think you are strong enough to find your own source of pain..... and then change it. You can live a happy, productive life off of drugs. Up until now you have been choosing not to. Stay the course. Give it time. Give it time. Give it time. Find your smile. I wish so much happiness your way and I am on your side my friend.
Jenny

[bev49]

Opee, I've been on drugs of one kind or another for 40 years. Sometimes weaker drugs like darvocets, sometimes stronger drugs like heroin and finallyh methadone. They are all narcotic drugs, and they are all addictive. Darvocet will prolong your getting off because you aren't really and it will prolong your depression because you know you arent where you want to be. Put the darvocets away. I remember when I first came here and I read posts about "Robert and Musicman and Opee".... all in one sentence. Never met musicman or you, til now. You can be that person they talked about again. Relapse is part of recovery but trying again and again is a bigger part of recovery. You can do it... You do it and your depression will lift, I bet, also. Just beware, darvocet is a narcotic and taking narcotics means you arent really getting clean. Disclaimer: I am on .5 mg. of sub so not totally clean. I don't mean to tell anyone HOW to get clean, just give support in the quest to get clean. You can do it Opee.

[Opee]

Originally Posted by Freedom4me

Opee,
Hey my friend. Can I ask you why you think you need the buzz to live your life? I will tell you that my use started from real back pain from an accident. My doc would give me 100 vics all the time. the most I was allowed to take was 8 in a 24 hour period. I did this for years, of course I built it up from 2 or 3 in a 24 hour period. Well, I started to go over because the 8 wouldn't stop the pain. It was then that I found this site because I was running out of my script too soon and knew I was physically dependent based on the spectacular withdrawals I would get waiting to fill it again. Long story short I went c/t after coming to this site. Back still hurts like heck but there is no way around that, I would have ended up taking 20 a day and as I built up tolerence it still would have hurt so here I am. Off pills since feb. My questions to you is why do you think you need the pills to live a happy life? I know how much time and energy and agony is wasted in making sure you have them, when you have them, how you have them. There has to be something in your life that is empty that you are trying to fill. If you let yourself off the hook of these pills for a long period of time and change all your habits and routines I think you can find what you are looking for. You are taking them to fill a void. Do you just want to be wasted all the way to your death? When I was going through the c/t withdrawals, all I could think of was that on the last day of my life, when there are no more days left for me, what would I give to have those 4 or 5 days back that I had made myself sick and was flat on my a$$ feeling sorry for myself because of some pills. I can never, ever get those days back. Like the songs says, "lifes like an hour glass glued to the table". You can't turn it over Opee. Every day you waste like this is a day, I'm pretty sure that on your dying day you would do anything to have back. One more day with family, one more day with friends, one more day with sunshine and music and laughter. If today was your last day and you knew it, how much would you regret all the days you wasted to drugs?You need to keep fighting and don't be careless with the precious days you have left in this world. I'm not a religeous person so I don't want it to sound like that at all but I want to see my kids get married. I want to meet my grandkids someday and watch them play Tball or soccer or ballet. We are stealing time from ourselves! Search your soul and find out what is making you so unhappy that you need to live in a fog. That is the source of your troubles and pain. I'm no phychiatrist and don't much believe in them. I think you are strong enough to find your own source of pain..... and then change it. You can live a happy, productive life off of drugs. Up until now you have been choosing not to. Stay the course. Give it time. Give it time. Give it time. Find your smile. I wish so much happiness your way and I am on your side my friend.
Jenny

Damn, Jenny, I like you more with every post. I mean that. I like your style alot. As opposed to "you can do it, stay strong" (which, don't get me wrong anyone, that is SO necessary to know you have someone in a similar situation pulling for you) you get to the root of the matter. The difference between you and I is that you are big picture, I'm small picture. I've never been very good in the long term of things, so I've always gone for the instant gratification. That's why the car business and I were meant to be. My first month I sold 12 cars. My second month I sold 18 and made Salesman of the Month (and the instant hatred of all my co-workers). I still hold that record today and it will never be topped. Nobody comes into the car business with no training and does what I did. OK, done patting myself on the back. My point it is, it was like a key in a lock. That's what opiates are. I've done every drug I ever heard of except for crsytal meth (that rots your face, I've seen photos!) and NOTHING took a hold on me like this. It's just such an easy, comfortable high. Gulp, that's it! No gross liquor to have to power thru for the first few drinks, no weed smell stinking up the joint or me, no runny nose and manic behavior. Just me and my couch and TV. And my pills.

So, in answer to your question: I would say my failed marriage is the void in my life, but I was using before I met her, during and after. It was when my marriage crashed due to the cocaine usage (you meet some rough folks in the car business) that I spun out of control on pills. I simply switched mechanisms for getting high. I could take pills and my ex wouldn't know. She tried to get me to hit her the alst few months we were trying to sell the house and she failed. I'd never hit a woman anyway, it just isn't done, but the pills kept me docile and complacent during this period. Then we had seperate residences and with no one to hide my use from, well, you get the idea.

So, at this point I guess I feel the need to be "buzzed" all the time is because it's how I've lived my life since I was 15. I was high on weed every day Junior/Senior year of HS. I won't even go into what I was up to in college when I had no parents to report home to at the end of the night. I consider myself fortunate to be alive.

THIS is the behavor that needs changing. The "need" to be on "something." Anything but straight. It has just become who I am over the years. But, no, I don't want to look back on my deathbed and see my 20 year old son that someone else raised. That's why I drug my ass up Sunday and took him to our pool when dozing on the couch would have been much easier.

To be fair, I've really lived a Life, so far. I've had some great tiimes and and some not so great times. I have experienced more in my 36 years than most humans will in a lifetime. I have few regrets on that level. To be perfectly honest, I like drugs. There I said it. I like drugs. I like drugs too much. Way past a weekend recreational usage. If not for this physical withdrawl, I wouldn't even be considering stoppping (but I'll bet we can ALL say that).

Thanks for your vested interest in my recovery. You challenge me, Jenny, to truly face things and acknowledge the reasons for destroying my life and everything I've worked for. Just saying "I like to be high" isn't good enough anymore. I need to find out what is missing and I don't know. But you can bet your a$$ I'm gonna find out. Stay with me, I'm worth it.

Your Friend For Life,
Opee

[Opee]

Originally Posted by bev49

Opee, I've been on drugs of one kind or another for 40 years. Sometimes weaker drugs like darvocets, sometimes stronger drugs like heroin and finallyh methadone. They are all narcotic drugs, and they are all addictive. Darvocet will prolong your getting off because you aren't really and it will prolong your depression because you know you arent where you want to be. Put the darvocets away. I remember when I first came here and I read posts about "Robert and Musicman and Opee".... all in one sentence. Never met musicman or you, til now. You can be that person they talked about again. Relapse is part of recovery but trying again and again is a bigger part of recovery. You can do it... You do it and your depression will lift, I bet, also. Just beware, darvocet is a narcotic and taking narcotics means you arent really getting clean. Disclaimer: I am on .5 mg. of sub so not totally clean. I don't mean to tell anyone HOW to get clean, just give support in the quest to get clean. You can do it Opee.

Hi Bev,

Yep, I agree. Simply stopping opiate use is not being clean when you eat Adderall, Klonopin, Xanax, smoke weed and drink wine - is not being clean in the slightest. As Riff said, this is a messy cocktail we put in our bodies.

You know what, I DO want to be the one they talk about as a success, as a mentor, as someone giving more to the site than he is taking. Someone like Robert. To be put into his category is not something I ever imagined anyone would place me. I want to be back there. I haven't been back there because I've been using off and on. When I get quiet for 2 weeks, I'm on a run. I will not lie on this site, that's the one line I drew for myself. So I just fade away as opposed to being a fraud. I'm trying real hard here, but Freedom4ME really has tapped into what is happening here. It's going to take a bigger effort on my part, such as NA. I'm too far gone to think I can just post a few sentences, ride out a couple of tough days and sail off into the sunset. It doesn't work like that. Even if you are 100% clean, but MISERABLE because you aren't using, you aren't living life. Thanks for the insight into your usage history, I like to know who I'm talking to. It makes me liek and respect you even more.

I do not disagree with anything you've said.

Regards,
Opee

P.S. I needed to comparison to Robert today. I really did. Thanks...

[Freedom4me]

Opee,
I will tell you what my challenge/void was when I quit (besides the pain inmy back). For me it was boredom. The same job for 10 years, the same husband (who I adore) for 24 years, the same house to be cleaned, the same bills to be paid, the same dinner to make every night. Besides just taking away my back pain, vicodin took away my boredom pain. My life had become a mindless routine of the same mundane stuff everyday. By comarison to most I have a very exciting job and it just got to the point where I was a machine but when I took the pills, i could zip through the job, sip through the laundry, zip through the dinner (with a glass or two of wine always of course). Now that I don't take them anymore it went back to being boring but I did something about it. I forced myself to do new things. I bought a German Shepherd pup from one of my clients and I am in the process of training him to pass his Schutzhund 1 level. he will go to a trainer for the nest 2 levels and will be a home protection dog that once a week I wil take to "brush up". i started drawing again. Hadn't done that in years. As much as I thought the pills gave me energy (and they did in the beginning) they stole my motivation in the end. I had a "routine". Come home from work, take a pill or two make dinner and then flop in front of the TV and zone out. I would pass on going to the movies with my kids, pass on going out to dinner with friends. Now, I still don't want to go but I MAKE myself go and you know what? I have a great time. It's funny. It's like slowly learneing to live all over again. I had to rmember back. i was a high school cheerleader, was all CIF in Vollyball and softball in high school and college and I took nothing and i felt great. i made myself remember. Now i know you have alot more history with drugs than i do but you can do it. Are you dating again? Meeting a wpnderful woman and having great sex would take the place of the feeling you get from those pills. Meet someone while you are off of them, thats where it went wrong with your wife. Shoot,if i was you I would do one of those internet dating sites. At least you would get off your a$$ and get back in the game. This is kind of oersonal but my hubbie and I act like back when we first got married. We have even tried some things that back in the day I would have said heck no to!! Variety. Move forward. Don't dwell. The computer is great but don't make it your life. I think you need to interact with people. I had to try to find the excitment in my job again. it's coming slowly but its coming. Set some goals. Soot for the 18 cars in one day! I know the economy sucks but won't it be fun to piss off your co-workers again!!! Change your routine. That was my biggest challenge. I am not always successful but I am more often than not now. Let's do it together. I will set my account up sp I can send you a picture of me and my family. It always feels better to know who you are talking to. You don't have to send one back if you dont want to
Jenny

[Opee]

Originally Posted by Freedom4me

Opee,
I will tell you what my challenge/void was when I quit (besides the pain inmy back). For me it was boredom. The same job for 10 years, the same husband (who I adore) for 24 years, the same house to be cleaned, the same bills to be paid, the same dinner to make every night. Besides just taking away my back pain, vicodin took away my boredom pain. My life had become a mindless routine of the same mundane stuff everyday. By comarison to most I have a very exciting job and it just got to the point where I was a machine but when I took the pills, i could zip through the job, sip through the laundry, zip through the dinner (with a glass or two of wine always of course). Now that I don't take them anymore it went back to being boring but I did something about it. I forced myself to do new things. I bought a German Shepherd pup from one of my clients and I am in the process of training him to pass his Schutzhund 1 level. he will go to a trainer for the nest 2 levels and will be a home protection dog that once a week I wil take to "brush up". i started drawing again. Hadn't done that in years. As much as I thought the pills gave me energy (and they did in the beginning) they stole my motivation in the end. I had a "routine". Come home from work, take a pill or two make dinner and then flop in front of the TV and zone out. I would pass on going to the movies with my kids, pass on going out to dinner with friends. Now, I still don't want to go but I MAKE myself go and you know what? I have a great time. It's funny. It's like slowly learneing to live all over again. I had to rmember back. i was a high school cheerleader, was all CIF in Vollyball and softball in high school and college and I took nothing and i felt great. i made myself remember. Now i know you have alot more history with drugs than i do but you can do it. Are you dating again? Meeting a wpnderful woman and having great sex would take the place of the feeling you get from those pills. Meet someone while you are off of them, thats where it went wrong with your wife. Shoot,if i was you I would do one of those internet dating sites. At least you would get off your a$$ and get back in the game. This is kind of oersonal but my hubbie and I act like back when we first got married. We have even tried some things that back in the day I would have said heck no to!! Variety. Move forward. Don't dwell. The computer is great but don't make it your life. I think you need to interact with people. I had to try to find the excitment in my job again. it's coming slowly but its coming. Set some goals. Soot for the 18 cars in one day! I know the economy sucks but won't it be fun to piss off your co-workers again!!! Change your routine. That was my biggest challenge. I am not always successful but I am more often than not now. Let's do it together. I will set my account up sp I can send you a picture of me and my family. It always feels better to know who you are talking to. You don't have to send one back if you dont want to
Jenny

You know what, Jen, we're all friends here. You are right, I do need to learn how to live without drugs. I need a plan and I don't have one yet. I'm working on it, though. This whole thing has been a process from my first post: Success/Failure Success/Failure Failure...

I am still kind of embittered on women after a nasty divorce where I got railroaded, but it is what it is and Life continues. My ex'es is certainly continuing, but not in what I deem a positive way. But, that's between me and her. My usage is between me and you guys. I dated up a storm 4 years ago when I was drinking really heavy - right after the divorce. Hammered every night. I had to take a drug hair test so booze was it. Oh, and pills. Don't fprget those. Since I had a small scrip for Darvocet, I took whatever and didn't worry about it. For the record, passed the test. One night drunk, next night pills. I have been seeing a woman off and on over the last 3 years. We went to high school together and she had a crush on me. She's flaky, twice divorced and 2 kids. That part I'm cool with, not the flakiness. She's faded again, which is fine. All we do is go get drunk and have physical relations. She'll resurface in 6 months. Because of my intermitent health (I look like and feel like ******** when I am in W/D) I've been hesitant to pursue much. Since I don't know how I'm going to feel that day, I get hesitant to make plans I may want to break later. Pretty messed up, but so am I right now. Dating is definitely on the back burner, by choice. I'm no Antonio Banderas but the general consensus among women I've known is that I'm cute and funny. Not hot or sexy, but cute. And funny. Good enough, beats the hell out of being homely and unfunny

Send away. Hell, we can even be Facebook friends. I am with Kara, but she's dropped off the planet lately, not sure what she's up to. She has a busy busy life so I'm not going to assume she's "pulling an Opee" (relapsing and fading for weeks at a time).

Look forward to seeing your family. That goes for anyone, feel free to email me personally, I'm cool with it!

Opee

[Riff]

Hey Opee,

ACK! re: Darvocet. Worst w/d I ever had was the last time when I was off percs for about a week, then got some Tylenol 3's and a few Vic's and took them just to take the worst of the w/d edge off. Felt OK again for about a day or so and then when they ran out the REAL agony began and lasted for over 2 weeks before I finally threw in the towel and did the taper thing with just the percs like I said earlier. Down to only 2 halfs of a single 5mg per day now (from 100-150mg a day before), and putting nothing else in my body except vitamins, and have had almost no w/d at all this time and don't feel the "need" if you know what I mean. Gonna cut the cord totally in a day or so. I feel really good for the first time in a very long time.

Bottom line - I think all you may be doing with the Darvo's is re-igniting and extending your w/d on a different and possibly worse level. The benzo's and the Adderall are probably not helping you either, but I'm no expert. I can only tell you what my experience has been, and getting off the med cocktail really worked wonders for me. I feel....um....normal. It's a strange and very cool feeling.

Also, yeah you're right, I've been around the block a few dozen times. The percs are just the latest (and worst) of the various vehicles I've driven around it. Kinda comical, since I had been clean for years (except for some binge boozing once in a great while), and this one came at me because of a legitimate out-of-the-blue medical issue, and I was kindly and blindly ushered into it by my doctor. It's not his fault of course, it's mine. If I had TAKEN AS DIRECTED I would be fine...well sorta I guess. And they really were a lifesaver in the beginning when I was in so much pain. Nothing else worked.

Now it's just the bit*h on my back, and I'm so looking forward to shaking it off.

Man oh man, do I know what you mean about the soaked sheets in the morning. Used to get so bad for me sometimes it would wake me up in the middle of night because I and the bed/sheets were so drenched. I hated that and the stomach issues worst of all.

I'm on the journey with you bro, and this thread has helped me a ton. For what it's worth, Opee's New thread for success is pulling me along for the ride too. So this is the second time you've helped me. You're aces in my book.

Thanks - I mean that.

Best,

-Riff

[Opee]

Right back at ya, Pal. Changed the sheets and left the AC on and slept fine last night. But, Dude, there were times I would wake up at 3am and it was like someone threw a bucket of water on me. I would have to put a towel down under me, kick away the sheets and just use a blanket. A more disgusting way to wake up I do not recall (except the one time in college I drank so much at nickel beer night I pissed my bed. Had to lay there for 30 minutes waiting for my roommate to leave so I could take care of it. I've had better mornings.) I have a million of these stories. I would agree, that and stomach issues are my worst. Back and forth between Immodium and stool softeners.....

Yes, the cocktail needs to go. The Adderall will stay on a small level, as I actually do need them for my ADD. I just don't need as many as I get as I trade the majority of them for Norco's. But, I see him soon and I'm changing that script and dropping the Klonopin and Xanax. The only reason I wanted them for when I was kicking (i.e. out of pills for the moment).

Normal sounds, well, nice. I haven't felt it in a long time. I read a post, I think it was yours, about the "Death Mask." Perfectly worded. I was walking thru the mall a few months back looking for L-Tyrosine and I caught a reflection of myself. When I am cognizant (working, around people) I can hide my pukiness due to simply years of practice. I had times where I was on 10 hard nights of partying in a row and still going to work and I could hide it. But, I wasn't cognizant of hiding it and thinking about what I looked like. I was also in my 20's (or the Roaring Twenties as I refer to them). I'll tell you, I didn't like what I saw. Skinny to the point of being gaunt, pale, big, dark circles under the eyes, eyes sunken in. Looked like exactly what I was: Someone who has been strung out on pills for years. I stood there in the middle of the mall for about 2 minutes just taking it in. A few people were looking at me and I didn't know if it was because of my appearance of my actions, or both, and I didn't much care. Anyway, I actually looked better than I felt that day.

Lemmy said it best, "You're the Ace of Spades."

Opee

[Riff]

Hey Opee - just a quick note that I have to head out of town for a few days on a short biz trip so I may not be posting until Friday or so...

Stay the course....work the plan...pick your b*ll******** adage...but just keep moving forward.

-Riff